The cost of omotenashi

[wuchan]

I'll just leave this here....

[Salty]

Well lucky for me - I fell off that chart many years ago, but now find myself back near the top. No idea what it has to do with omotenashi........

[wuchan]

Well lucky for me - I fell off that chart many years ago, but now find myself back near the top. No idea what it has to do with omotenashi........

read my earlier post about resorts robbing Japanese people and not robbing the foreigners. Basically the locals don't have enough money to go to those places anymore so the resorts rob the ones that save all year for one day away.

[Wage Slave]

Hmmmm. Are you sure that US earnings are that much higher/better distributed? Falling real income has been noted all over the world. In any case we would need to look at figures based on Purchasing Power Parity and I'm not sure the thesis is worth further investigation.

Personal_Household_Income_U.png

[Coligny]

I wuz told here would be no math...

[Wage Slave]

Interesting fact for you. Accoeding to the OECD consumer goods and services cost exactly the same in France as the US (100 base). Japan is slightly cheaper at 96 while the UK is expensive at 121.

Poland 51
Hungary 52
Czech Republic 59
Turkey 61
Slovak Republic 63
Mexico 66
Chile 67
Estonia 71
Portugal 73
Slovenia 75
Greece 78
Spain 84
Korea 84
Italy 94
Germany 94
Japan 96
Austria 99
United States 100
France 100
Belgium 101
Netherlands 102
Canada 105
Sweden 109
Israel 109
Ireland 109
Iceland 111
Luxembourg 112
Finland 113
New Zealand 118
United Kingdom 121
Australia 123
Denmark 128
Norway 134
Switzerland 162

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity

[Coligny]

Yet...

This doesn't mean much if it's not factoring our universal healthcare, 35 h workweek, mandatory 5 weeks paid vacation (by law, not a choice) and parental leaves.
Don't get me started on conges-bonifies for worker from oversea territories working in continental France (the Hexagone).

Also, there's actually things to buy in Iceland ? Beside Bjork cds ?

[matsuki]

Yet...

This doesn't mean much if it's not factoring our universal healthcare, 35 h workweek, mandatory 5 weeks paid vacation (by law, not a choice) and parental leaves.
Don't get me started on conges-bonifies for worker from oversea territories working in continental France (the Hexagone).

I wonder if that OECD data takes into account the size of goods. Sometimes pricing is similar between Japan and the US...only what you get for that price is totally different. Not realistic to say "Japanese need less" either.

Also, there's actually things to buy in Iceland ? Beside Bjork cds ?

[wagyl]

so, there's actually things to buy in Iceland ? Beside Bjork cds ?

Frighteningly cheap frozen food.

[Wage Slave]

Yet...

This doesn't mean much if it's not factoring our universal healthcare, 35 h workweek, mandatory 5 weeks paid vacation (by law, not a choice) and parental leaves.
Don't get me started on conges-bonifies for worker from oversea territories working in continental France (the Hexagone).

Also, there's actually things to buy in Iceland ? Beside Bjork cds ?

Good point - it ignores healthcare costs. Healthcare in other developed countries is paid for by taxation or national insurance and I think American income tax/insurance is relatively low. However, they get to pay lots for private healthcare, if they are lucky enough to be judged insurable, and may or may not get the care they need paid for at exorbitant rates.

Or has Obama finally managed to get a grip?

And if you are going to bang on about the benefit of mandatory holidays then don't you think you should mention how difficult it is in France to legally strut around with a semi automatic weapon?

[Wage Slave]

I wonder if that OECD data takes into account the size of goods. Sometimes pricing is similar between Japan and the US...only what you get for that price is totally different.

I somehow think they may have been sophisticated enough to account for the fact package size tends to be larger in the US. Perhaps in the case of a sofa or something like that there may be a bit in it but most things can be priced by the kilo, square metre etc. Or they are services in which case by the minute or by the unit depending on the service.

[Takechanpoo]

actually grass-roots level j-hospitality is pretty poor as hell while ones in the commercial section are highly developed.

[Coligny]

Yet...

This doesn't mean much if it's not factoring our universal healthcare, 35 h workweek, mandatory 5 weeks paid vacation (by law, not a choice) and parental leaves.
Don't get me started on conges-bonifies for worker from oversea territories working in continental France (the Hexagone).

Also, there's actually things to buy in Iceland ? Beside Bjork cds ?

Good point - it ignores healthcare costs. Healthcare in other developed countries is paid for by taxation or national insurance and I think American income tax/insurance is relatively low. However, they get to pay lots for private healthcare, if they are lucky enough to be judged insurable, and may or may not get the care they need paid for at exorbitant rates.

Or has Obama finally managed to get a grip?

And if you are going to bang on about the benefit of mandatory holidays then don't you think you should mention how difficult it is in France to legally strut around with a semi automatic weapon?

Tsss... Even the firemen are issued standard Famas bullpup assault riffle (french firemen are all army, don't know why, must be complicamated, don't ask)

image.jpeg

[Grumpy Gramps]

image.jpeg

Could be a nice accessory to give your kids, when you send them go tricking/treating tonight. Surley will increase the J-omotenashi by a couple of magnitudes. Most Japanese think that Halloween is an American tradition anyway, so they might not even be all that surprised.

[matsuki]

Most Japanese think that Halloween is an American tradition

Commercialized Halloween pretty much is?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Japan Actually Lacking in "Omotenashi" Hospitality
British Company Owner Acquainted with Kyoto Advises Bitterly

http://www.kyoto-np.co.jp/kp/topics/eng ... 12-05.html

Some good points in that article.

Try to get a boiled egg in a hotel or restaurant in Japan. They can't do it, even if you tell them how to boil it...

This scene from "Five Easy Pieces" has always reminded me of Japan. The waitress would be a lot more polite about it here though.

[kurogane]

Japan Actually Lacking in "Omotenashi" Hospitality
British Company Owner Acquainted with Kyoto Advises Bitterly

http://www.kyoto-np.co.jp/kp/topics/eng ... 12-05.html

Some good points in that article.

Atkinson said, "The services of Japanese upscale inns give priority to the suppliers in general. Japanese hospitality has no sense of adapting to the guests."

That is my sentiment about Japanese service in a nutshell. That Kafka routine with the French restaraunt made me smile nostalgically. The first few times I thought they were teasing me they sounded so stupid. They weren't. Kyoto is particularly bad at tha sort of runaround. If this Atkinson fellow is who I think he is, though, he is a complete Machiya turd and might even be slightly nuts, which should probably be obvious, as he has already admitted to having worked for Goldman Sachs, but he does make nice points.

[matsuki]

Japan Actually Lacking in "Omotenashi" Hospitality
British Company Owner Acquainted with Kyoto Advises Bitterly

http://www.kyoto-np.co.jp/kp/topics/eng ... 12-05.html

Some good points in that article.

Try to get a boiled egg in a hotel or restaurant in Japan. They can't do it, even if you tell them how to boil it...

This scene from "Five Easy Pieces" has always reminded me of Japan. The waitress would be a lot more polite about it here though.

I've had to order like that before here. (not for myself, I'm not a picky asshole) 50/50 chance they suck teeth and say they can't hold the chicken because they can't charge you for it and not give it to you...so then you ask for it on the side or separate plate. I had to stop jokingly telling people to order drinks without ice though...one Russian customer of mine almost beat the fuck out of the manager of a Doutor (was the only thing around besides a conbini) after one look at his more than half empty "large" drink.

[kurogane]

On a different note, Atkinson's comment about restaurant closing times is idiotic. He sounds like he might well be the Machiya Britturd I think it might be. Good enough Japanese skills and all but understands them at a gut level even worse than Matsuki does. Why the F should a shop owner have open ended hours for customers that might or might not show up? I have found a few higher end places a touch anal about the closing time, but one thing I do admire about their lack of hospitality is that work is just that, and when work is done it's time to go home, and no customer should expect different. It would be very hospitable of them if they would stop talking about Japanese service as though it is comparatively better even though they are unconsciously comparing it to Chinese service not proper First World levels, but the stupid white Sushi Fegs would probably keep that myth alive anways with their retarded cooing and gushing.

[Coligny]

I had the doutor no ice moment too...

Just never go anymore since.

McDo have 2 filling button for drinks with or without ice...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Why the F should a shop owner have open ended hours for customers that might or might not show up? I have found a few higher end places a touch anal about the closing time, but one thing I do admire about their lack of hospitality is that work is just that, and when work is done it's time to go home, and no customer should expect different.

I think there's a happy medium though. In the US because the staff work for tips and a most people drive to work restaurants will stay open forever while some group of assholes ignores all the passive aggressive clues it's time to leave and keep slowly sipping their almost finished beer. However, in Japan I've had places serve me a big-ass glass of beer and some yaki soba and then try to strong-arm me out the door 10 minutes later even thought it's them that took forever to bring what I ordered at last call.

McDo have 2 filling button for drinks with or without ice...

They do now. It wasn't always that way.

[kurogane]

I think there's a happy medium though.

Oh, very much so. I do think Japanese service is rather shitty in comparison to North American standards, but this current buzz that things are going to change much because of some silly 2 week international event seems rather delusional, particularly given how convinced they and their foreign cheerleaders are of its superiority. I also dislike that ever so cosmopolitan fop vibe of using European cafe and restaraunt culture as a comparative. Most places in the world don't run like that, why should the Japanese?

However, in Japan I've had places serve me a big-ass glass of beer and some yaki soba and then try to strong-arm me out the door 10 minutes later even thought it's them that took forever to bring what I ordered at last call..

I would be surprised to meet a longer term resident that hasn't had that. That ploy infuriates me, especially if they make it sound like they are doing me a favour or it was my fault for ordering later than was convenient for them. Also, I don't know about you but the way a hell of a lot of Japanese wolf their food not only surprises me but grosses me out as well, so perhaps we do eat much slower. Unless there is obviously something up and they need to leave or we were being a'holishly slow places like that get no return custom from me. I fully agreed with Atkinson's point about the hospitality industry's true priorities being their own, but expecting wholesale changes in an industry that set in its ways seems silly. Also, let's not forget that most people that go to Japan as tourists or for the Olympics will be the type to gush and swoon regardless of how shit we know the service is in comparison. Not being satisfied with something for people like that means it's a personal moral fault for not seeing things in a positive light and not the service providers' fault, or it gets excused away with pat cliches. Most people that travel to Japan are too clueless and confused to actually think things through in a rational manner. And apparently it is hellishly confusing, to be fair. I still remember the trials and tribulations of the illiterate's Onigiri Lottery, which was a major motivation to learn to read Japanese properly, especially the kanji for salmon.

[matsuki]

I don't know about you but the way a hell of a lot of Japanese wolf their food not only surprises me but grosses me out as well, so perhaps we do eat much slower.

It's really disgusting, even worse when the old men can't be bothered to use a tsumayoji and sit there sucking their teeth and slapping their lips. I had some fucker on the train the other night doing that and got a　「何見てるお前？！」 for giving him a disgusted look. 「汚いじじ」 got a good laugh out of the college football team next to me.

Still, I really dislike chicks doing the whole bowl to the mouth, with elbows up and out, all Cthulhu feeding style.



Which is considered bad manners here as well....just doesn't stop girls from doing it.

[kurogane]

Still, I really dislike chicks doing the whole bowl to the mouth, with elbows up and out, all Cthulhu feeding style.
Which is considered bad manners here as well....just doesn't stop girls from doing it.

Just where are you meeting these lovelies? I think you need a better dating app

It is very bad manners, and I have never had a date do that, but I have no problem with slurping from a Ramen bowl at a noodle shop, although I probably wouldn't if it were ramen at home. I have had a few choice commments from dates over the finishing slurp at a noodle shop, but the kind of girls I date kind of like it when their man gets a little dirty: they get to give a scold, and it makes them just a little bit wet, so Win Win. If you need the rice bowl that close to get at it you need chopsticks lessons. It's no wonder so many women are choosing not to get married given how prevalent that eating style is becoming. The manners of way too many Japanese from about your age down are appalling, and don't get me started on those spastic X-style chopstick skills. I would never say anything to anybody anywhere but it gives me the willys, both because it's physically gross and because degenerate plebs make me socially anxious.

[wagyl]

Chopstick skills?

[kurogane]

Hehehe. He would certainly fit the profile:

Shin-chan, let Mommy feed you, you precious boy. You are so special. Did you know your Grandfather was a war criminal? You should make him proud, you special boy.

The only colleagues of mine at the Prestigious National University (!!!) that could eat and feed themselves properly were the naturally smart ones that didn't have to go Kyoiku Mama / Daily Juku to get in. The rest thought making cup noodles was cooking. But thanks for reminding me: I just had a nostalgic willys attack. 3 of the creepiest years of my life, that was.

Nothing on Abe, but I got this out of a Google:
http://www.therisingwasabi.com/man-told ... mpetition/

[Coligny]

What amaze me most is their aptitude at making more noise than a german shepperd munching on dry food when they eat caramel pudding or cheezecake...

Famiresu always felt like denial zone for darwinian theory... Wonder why dogs are not allowed since most have better table manners...

[kurogane]

Yes, oui, Ja..........I have had meals ruined by that noise, and have at least 3 friends I cannot enjoyably eat with after drinking. The thing that really, REALLY bugs me about it is that nobody that hasn't heard it would ever believe it, so I have to grin and bear it when witless Whiteys talk about how exquisite Japanese manners are. That is just salt in the wound.

[Takechanpoo]

i always do slppy eating like a dog both at restaurant and at home.
and have no plan to change it however you gaijin dudes hate it.
the important thing is to pleasing the taste.

Yes, oui, Ja..........I have had meals ruined by that noise, and have at least 3 friends I cannot enjoyably eat with after drinking. The thing that really, REALLY bugs me about it is that nobody that hasn't heard it would ever believe it, so I have to grin and bear it when witless Whiteys talk about how exquisite Japanese manners are. That is just salt in the wound.

if my memory is correct, your thinking framework is based on Derrida, isnt it?
why dont you deconstruct the dichotomy of vulgar/elegant?
or Derrida is just one of accessories to pretend to be intelligent?
eh?

[inflames]

Also, I don't know about you but the way a hell of a lot of Japanese wolf their food not only surprises me but grosses me out as well, so perhaps we do eat much slower.

I can handle going to most places, I absolutely refuse to go to yakiniku with Japanese people - the constant rush to throw meat on the grill to get it cooked is really annoying - they (even women) are trying to wolf down the food. I understand with ramen, but can't figure it out with yakiniku.

Most restaurant shifts in the US (at sit-down places) don't have fixed ending times, so they won't have to do stuff like turn away a party of 6 or 8. I went to yakiniku with some friends on Halloween - there were 6 of us and they told us last order was in 10 minutes, but we could stay an hour later to cook the food. They have a drink bar (even for alcohol) and we asked about that and they said that the drink bar would be closed in 10 minutes as well - we went to another place instead.

I personally hate the entire omotenashi thing - service isn't that great here when you need something slightly special. They won't tell drunken assholes to STFU but they'll tell you exactly when it's time to go.

Another JT article about it:
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/1 ... t-humility