Death & Taxes

[Wage Slave]

Well you can't say say there are no costs of ownership even if you park the thing in a garage. That garage space costs money - in property tax if nothing else.

It's stupid to say you don't own something just because you have to pay to keep it. If you control it, decide when it's sold and get the money when it is sold you own it and it's as simple as that.

rent is rent
tax is tax

They are different.

[Wage Slave]

WS... That's quite a stupid comparison...

I can collect as many cars in my bunker without paying any fee as long as I don't use them on public roads. I cann even drive them on track days or in my field if I want.
Property taxe if you are the owner just mean you have one less leach to pay to keep your stuff.
And if you have to pay to keep sumthing, it's not yours. Ask any sugar daddy about that issue.

And you can sell the car after a week for double your purchase price, no one cares....

No one cares if you sell property for a higher price. If you sell your car for double the price that is much harder for the tax authorities to detect but it isn't invisible.

And sugar daddies clearly rent. They don't buy. Well, these days unfortunately.

[Coligny]

Even Russian mail order brides ?

[Wage Slave]

Even Russian mail order brides ?

Unfortunately yes. Whatever Natasha told you in that email she sent.

BTW, I are you sure that property tax is just leaching off someone's ownership of a property. After all, the property only has value because the koreans/russkies/australians can't come and seize the country or homeless people can't just move onto it or a businessman can't build a Chinese fireworks factory next to it and so on. Shouldn't the owner contribute something for all that defense and policing? Without it the property wouldn't be worth anything - I hear you can pick up land in Somalia for peanuts these days.

[chibaka]

Property tax pays for local services does it not? Capital gains is pure thievery. With house prices here heading in the downward direction, it's not something I'm worried about.

[Wage Slave]

Property tax pays for local services does it not? Capital gains is pure thievery. With house prices here heading in the downward direction, it's not something I'm worried about.

It varies country by country and by type of property. I'm not sure about here - In the UK council tax is not really a tax on property cos Margaret abolished that. Business rates go to central government. Here I'm not sure - I think you may well be right though - It's collected by local government. But really that just means central government doesn't have to give them the money so it's available for other things.

Anyway, the property is only worth good money because there are local services. Education, rubbish collection, street lighting etc etc ...

All taxes are pure thievery really. That's why the govt keeps a strict monopoly on it. But yes, you are right. The debate is all about what can be collected as cheaply and reliably as possible, what is more or less related to ability to pay and what things you want to encourage or discourage.

Do we have to pay capital gains tax on your main residence in Japan? You don't in the UK. Anyway fat chance for most anyway.

[chibaka]

Do we have to pay capital gains tax on your main residence in Japan? You don't in the UK. Anyway fat chance for most anyway.

I think theoretically here, there maybe capital gains, not much chance of that though. UK has no capital gains tax on your main property, if you are fortunate enough to have a second house, that would be taxed.

[Wage Slave]

Do we have to pay capital gains tax on your main residence in Japan? You don't in the UK. Anyway fat chance for most anyway.

I think theoretically here, there maybe capital gains, not much chance of that though. UK has no capital gains tax on your main property, if you are fortunate enough to have a second house, that would be taxed.

Yes, or the capital gain will be when it is sold. Been there (buy to let) and done that and I wasn't too upset because I had made a good whack. These days it is a shed load of money. Especially in London.

[wagyl]

I actually have a problem with property tax since it basically means there is no true ownership by individuals

I'm not with you. How's that?

If you have to pay taxes to keep your property, you don't own it. You're just renting it.

If we don't pay income tax our wages can be garnished.

I suppose that means that we are not truly paid for the work we do. We are all bound by the chains of slavery.

[Wage Slave]

Regarding Japanese capital gains tax on your primary residence. It appears you are liable but only for capital gain in excess of 30 million after deducting both buying and selling costs. That can include demolition costs.

So, unless the property was bought way back in the 60s or something and is in a prime location there will be nothing to pay.

[Salty]

I actually have a problem with property tax since it basically means there is no true ownership by individuals

I'm not with you. How's that?

If you have to pay taxes to keep your property, you don't own it. You're just renting it.

IMO - that is a good way to look at it. You only `own` the right to hold it and manage it so long as you abide by the society rules - pay your taxes, keep it in a safe condition, and in some jurisdictions - keep it looking similar to others in the same area. The land itself is simply rented from society and held for the next generation.

[chibaka]

Regarding Japanese capital gains tax on your primary residence. It appears you are liable but only for capital gain in excess of 30 million after deducting both buying and selling costs. That can include demolition costs.

So, unless the property was bought way back in the 60s or something and is in a prime location there will be nothing to pay.

In Japan that maybe true, but if you have a property for a long time and the value has raised by the rate of inflation, have you really gained anything?
All you are doing is protecting your money. But if you buy and sell a property in a short space of time, with some profit, then yes, you have gained.
Would that be calculated differently?

[Wage Slave]

It wouldn't be calculated any differently if you bought and sold quickly. The only very important condition is that it must be your main or only residence otherwise capital gains tax for you. Not much chance of that though.

Inflation. I remember that, just about. You are right though. Inflation damages savers very unfairly and benefits debtors. However, in the case of residential property remember that the mortgage debt is being depreciated by inflation so in that kind of market the property owner is winning both ways. The debt on the property is losing value at the same time the property is keeping up with inflation or even gaining value.

As for the market here - little to no inflation and if anything gentle deflation in the property market. Capital gains tax on the home is the least of anyone's worries.

[Wage Slave]

I actually have a problem with property tax since it basically means there is no true ownership by individuals

I'm not with you. How's that?

If you have to pay taxes to keep your property, you don't own it. You're just renting it.

IMO - that is a good way to look at it. You only `own` the right to hold it and manage it so long as you abide by the society rules - pay your taxes, keep it in a safe condition, and in some jurisdictions - keep it looking similar to others in the same area. The land itself is simply rented from society and held for the next generation.

On a higher philosophical level, yes absolutely right. As far as law and property rights are concerned, not at all.

[wangta]

So I talked to my friend and apparently his side business was under the 200,000Yen requirement to report...but "the tax dude was still an unrelenting asshole, determined to find something on this ayashii gaijin."

I'd like to bump this because clearly your mate didn't bother to read or find out about basic tax laws in Japan that apply to gaijin as well as Japanese. You only don't have to report 200,000 yen in income (about 2,000 US bucks) IF that is your ONLY income. I don't believe your friend is so stupid as to not understand that basic distinction.

He already had another income and this 200,000 was from a 'side business'. It's very clear that you add up all your income for the financial year so that means all your friend had to do was add that 200,000 yen income to his other income for his return. It's not hard to do, is it?

On another note, I heard 3rd hand about somebody who was asked by their new ward office to supply their last two years income info for assessing the kokumin kenko hoken. The person who told me said the bloke asked to do that was genuinely surprised as it should be based on last year's income, not from two years ago.
This bloke has no history of not paying anything, has not been a resident for 5 of the last ten years in Japan, yet they were also trying to root around in his foreign income when he was working in his home country 2 years ago. Seems to me that yes the Jp authorities do want to go after gaijin as they see us collectively as a soft touch.

[Wage Slave]

Seems to me that yes the Jp authorities do want to go after gaijin as they see us collectively as a soft touch.

I think you are right and I also think they think that evasion/not reporting is pretty rife, partly because they haven't been very pro-active about it in the past. Judging from the attitudes I see expressed by not a few resident foreigners here, I can't say I blame them for forming that view.

[wagyl]

Not that "everyone is doing it" is ever an adequate defence, I think you will find that creative accountancy is just as common if not more common among the Japanese population who can get away with it (i.e. the non-salaryman) as it is among the foreign population with the same capacity. I also think you will find that the gains to be made by cracking down are greater among the Japanese population than the foreign population.

People who post here are entitled to wear their coats of persecution if they wish, but in my view it is more than a little conceited to regard yourself as primary targets in anything the tax authorities do.

More and more this board is feeling like a foreigner's bubble, an echo chamber with little input from the real world.
Without irony, I think we occasionally need a prick for that bubble.

[Samurai_Jerk]

wagyl, you're probably right. It seems unlikely there's a concerted effort to target foreigners but they aren't going to ignore suspicious activity if it comes to their attention.

[kurogane]

People who post here are entitled to wear their coats of persecution if they wish, but in my view it is more than a little conceited to regard yourself as primary targets in anything the tax authorities do.

More and more this board is feeling like a foreigner's bubble, an echo chamber with little input from the real world.
Without irony, I think we occasionally need a prick for that bubble.

Beautiful. Couldn't agree more. Wangta used the words Bloke and Mate in the same post so I automatically assumed Lesser White in Asia Persecution Complex (LWAPC!!), but I think this extends to us First Worlds whites as well. At an anecdotal level, there might be prissy and pissy individual officials, but the idea that whites think they are under the gun shows how sad whites in Japan are.

[wangta]

Not that "everyone is doing it" is ever an adequate defence, I think you will find that creative accountancy is just as common if not more common among the Japanese population who can get away with it (i.e. the non-salaryman) as it is among the foreign population with the same capacity. I also think you will find that the gains to be made by cracking down are greater among the Japanese population than the foreign population.

People who post here are entitled to wear their coats of persecution if they wish, but in my view it is more than a little conceited to regard yourself as primary targets in anything the tax authorities do.

More and more this board is feeling like a foreigner's bubble, an echo chamber with little input from the real world.
Without irony, I think we occasionally need a prick for that bubble.

Calm down, it's you and Kuro who are using emotive language here about something that is verifiable. If people have experienced it (see the gaijinpot archives for a start) or heard from reliable sources or have first-hand experience there aint jack wrong with referring to it on gaijin forums. You actually sound like an echo chamber from gaijinpot a few moons back - I forget the poster's name but maybe wage slave can help out here.

And you're wrong, to prick that bubble of dismissiveness that emanates from your posts on the subject. Foreigners in Japan are logically easy targets as there are so few of them. It is very easy to focus on their tax issues. Personally I have always done all the reporting I am required to do so it is not a personal concern.

But as the mess that Super Grover got into some yrs back and the trend of gaijin university teachers with PR being audited around the same time or after shows, there is a pattern. Governments are tightening the screws on residents around the globe because of their own financial messes and it will continue. You and kuro seem to be the ones wetting your jocks over it, not wage slave and others.

[wangta]

People who post here are entitled to wear their coats of persecution if they wish, but in my view it is more than a little conceited to regard yourself as primary targets in anything the tax authorities do.

More and more this board is feeling like a foreigner's bubble, an echo chamber with little input from the real world.
Without irony, I think we occasionally need a prick for that bubble.

Beautiful. Couldn't agree more. Wangta used the words Bloke and Mate in the same post so I automatically assumed Lesser White in Asia Persecution Complex (LWAPC!!), but I think this extends to us First Worlds whites as well. At an anecdotal level, there might be prissy and pissy individual officials, but the idea that whites think they are under the gun shows how sad whites in Japan are.

Likewise, calm down. You and waygl are the ones getting all pissy about people observing trends. You're also making assumptions about the skin colours of gaijin in Japan who work in whatever field including English. Plenty of black and coffee coloured Engrish teachers feel there is more of an interest in them and their money matters. I think you've been on the turps again but waygl is a whole lotta dejavu. One of the gaijinpot posters back in the day who always had to chime in with some put-down of other opinions in a pompous way. Wage slave, any clue?

[kurogane]

Super Grover fell into the ditch he dug himself and then screamed because the filthy chinks wouldn't give him a free ladder out of it. As dear as a man as he is, he fucked that up so royally it was shameful. He was evading taxes. There was no other word for what he did. We might not use Mate or Bloke, but we can hillbilly with the best of them as needed, and he did just that. Feck I hate hillbillies, now that you mention it. Not him, natch. He was loveable.

Other than that, you might be half right. If you could write a whole sentence in First World English we'd know for sure. Except about the skin colour bit. That showed how white you are, even if not First World white. Only racists use that sad quibble.

[Wage Slave]

Wangta, the man you meant was Ken44. He's come up in this thread before I think. Oh what fun and games he was.

[wangta]

But Ken44 wasn't pompous. Just deluded. I might be doing Waygl a disservice but his way of lecturing, er writing, reminds me of a poster who used to have the same kind of writing style. You know, a pseudo professorial style that is a different kind of trolling, the way Waygl trolls certain posters.

[wangta]

Super Grover fell into the ditch he dug himself and then screamed because the filthy chinks wouldn't give him a free ladder out of it. As dear as a man as he is, he fucked that up so royally it was shameful. He was evading taxes. There was no other word for what he did. We might not use Mate or Bloke, but we can hillbilly with the best of them as needed, and he did just that. Feck I hate hillbillies, now that you mention it. Not him, natch. He was loveable.

Other than that, you might be half right. If you could write a whole sentence in First World English we'd know for sure. Except about the skin colour bit. That showed how white you are, even if not First World white. Only racists use that sad quibble.

Yes, Kurogane, I think you're on the turps. Your last sentence of your post above is proof positive.

To give you a gentle nudge in the correct direction, I'll point out that you made a thing talking about how it's only 'white' people who are concerned with the pro-active change in Japanese policy whether that is Mai Number or specially trained staff in Jp tax offices who check out permanent residents' dealings.

Then you take some turps-fuelled pseudo moral high ground that I've bolded. Your words are illogical - there are any number of foreigners who don't fall under your 'white' classification who teach English or work in IT or whatever and are subject to the same new interest on the J authorities' part in their home country and what may be there. Get off of whatever it is you're imbibing.

[Wage Slave]

But Ken44 wasn't pompous. Just deluded. I might be doing Waygl a disservice but his way of lecturing, er writing, reminds me of a poster who used to have the same kind of writing style. You know, a pseudo professorial style that is a different kind of trolling, the way Waygl trolls certain posters.

You don't mean Glenski do you? Wagyl is a country mile or five more intelligent and better informed than him.

[Mike Oxlong]

on the turps

Could this dreadful witches' brew be what ye refer to?

[Wage Slave]

Worth a try. I was wondering how long it would take for Japanese beer makers to cotton on to IPA. When I'm home in the summer I almost always drink it in preference to lager these days. I've come to prefer a bit richer and less gassy.

[wagyl]

I am no expert in this field, but I do know of some Japanese IPAs from at least ten years ago (indeed, they put out a tenth anniversary edition a couple of years ago). Not to my taste, and very likely not very much like what anyone else thinks of when they think of an IPA, either.

[Wage Slave]

Oh right. Shame.