Child Abduction Issue Explodes

[Tsuru]

A brand new J passport for a child with no US entry stamp should have been enough to set off some hard questions

Interesting, how so?

Isn't there any way a kid traveling to Japan with a new passport couldn't have been abducted?

[Coligny]

Interesting, how so?

Isn't there any way a kid traveling to Japan with a new passport couldn't have been abducted?

Redhead, single parent, new passport 1 day old... Makes a lot...

1 is accident
2 is coincidence
3 is enemy action...

[Mike Oxlong]

Meuser said there is no law requiring the airline and travel agency to check custody issues on travel from the United States to Japan, but said they should be held responsible nonetheless. "They should have flagged everybody," he said. "Wayne has red hair. He's clearly bi-racial and he's going to a country known to have problems with parental kidnapping. They had all the warning signs."

It's likely not known issue to anyone but those with a personal interest in this sort of thing. They're far too busy with their enhanced body scans and patting down children and old women to pay attention to any red flags that can be spotted without x-rays and latex gloves.

[maraboutslim]

If this guy's lawsuit increases the red tape my family has to go through in getting passports for our kids or traveling singly with our kids or even the kids flying by themselves back and forth to Japan, I'm going to hunt him down and beat the living crap out of him.

Nobody wants the government in their lives, especially in their family business, until they can't handle things themselves and then they want the government to step in and even airlines to step in! Ridiculous.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Nobody wants the government in their lives, especially in their family business, until they can't handle things themselves and then they want the government to step in and even airlines to step in! Ridiculous.

How would you suggest people deal with cases of international child abduction then? Hire The Expendables?

[Kuang_Grade]

Interesting, how so?

Isn't there any way a kid traveling to Japan with a new passport couldn't have been abducted?

As for my point, it means the child is not traveling with the same non-US documents that he entered the US with. Now a J passport could have been lost while traveling in the US, but it should be then cross matched with whatever documentation was used to bring the child into the US...The article doesn't state the particulars of the case (where the child was born?, had it ever left the US previously?, did he already have a US passport?, ect) but it sounds like the child may have been born in the US and thus wouldn't have any entry records and/or the entry records would indicate he was a US citizen.

As to your question, if a child was traveling on a US passport, then a new, unstamped passport would make sense....but a lone J national leaving with an infant US national would have likely prompted some further questioning.

[matsuki]

As to your question, if a child was traveling on a US passport, then a new, unstamped passport would make sense....but a lone J national leaving with an infant US national would have likely prompted some further questioning.

THIS

Shouldn't he be suing immigration though? By current laws, they're the ones that dropped the ball here.

[maraboutslim]

FWIW, in my experience neither country really cares about what is stamped in what passport and there has been no consistency across many, many trips. Basically though, when arriving in Japan, they just care that the kids have a Japanese passport and don't care where they've been and when they arrive in the US they take a look at that the US passport and don't care where they've been. Kids passports only last five years, too, so they often have new ones that don't show anything from previous arrivals/departures.

As for what guys should do about international child abduction, well in cases of actual kidnapped-by-a-stranger, then call in as much government help as possible of course. But in cases of taken-by-mommy, well, be nicer to mommy so that don't happen. But leave the rest of us out of the (failed) relationships. I don't want to have anything to do with it, I don't want to fund anyone else's attempts to see their kids, and I certainly don't want any more laws passed to inconvenience me just because some guy couldn't keep his family together.

[Coligny]

How would you suggest people deal with cases of international child abduction then? Hire The Expendables?

That was one of the mostest homoerotic movies I've seen in a long time... And being a fan of Jason Statham's movies that tells quite a lot...

[Samurai_Jerk]

But in cases of taken-by-mommy, well, be nicer to mommy so that don't happen. But leave the rest of us out of the (failed) relationships. I don't want to have anything to do with it, I don't want to fund anyone else's attempts to see their kids, and I certainly don't want any more laws passed to inconvenience me just because some guy couldn't keep his family together.

Typical pseudo-libertarian answer. Yeah, 'cause it's just that simple.

[Kuang_Grade]

THIS

Shouldn't he be suing immigration though? By current laws, they're the ones that dropped the ball here.

In the US, the airlines are the primary immigration check point for people leaving the US. Basically, the airlines are tasked with a number of rules/requirements and if they see something fishy, they are supposed notify the authorities.

But the US airlines (and this would include foreign air carriers operating in the US) have been required, for around decade or so, to be watchful for with a specific set of things regarding international travel with children and when they should demand further levels of proof/questioning and/or bring in the authorities to make sure everything is legit.

A newly issued foreign passport for a child departing the US probably should have prompted a look closer look at the mothers passport...now there might have been a perfectly good story to tell the airline agent if the woman had been going back and forth to Japan since the birth of the child, but the US resident alien stamps in her passport should have likely triggered a further level of investigation about the child's travel documents. But that said, it is possible the mother got a new J passport as well when she got the one for the kid and just acted like she was returning back to Japan after a vacation in the US when checking in for flight back to Japan.

[matsuki]

In the US, the airlines are the primary immigration check point for people leaving the US. Basically, the airlines are tasked with a number of rules/requirements and if they see something fishy, they are supposed notify the authorities.

But the US airlines (and this would include foreign air carriers operating in the US) have been required, for around decade or so, to be watchful for with a specific set of things regarding international travel with children and when they should demand further levels of proof/questioning and/or bring in the authorities to make sure everything is legit.

A newly issued foreign passport for a child departing the US probably should have prompted a look closer look at the mothers passport...now there might have been a perfectly good story to tell the airline agent if the woman had been going back and forth to Japan since the birth of the child, but the US resident alien stamps in her passport should have likely triggered a further level of investigation about the child's travel documents. But that said, it is possible the mother got a new J passport as well when she got the one for the kid and just acted like she was returning back to Japan after a vacation in the US when checking in for flight back to Japan.

In that case, why not sue them both?

As for what guys should do about international child abduction, well in cases of actual kidnapped-by-a-stranger, then call in as much government help as possible of course. But in cases of taken-by-mommy, well, be nicer to mommy so that don't happen. But leave the rest of us out of the (failed) relationships. I don't want to have anything to do with it, I don't want to fund anyone else's attempts to see their kids, and I certainly don't want any more laws passed to inconvenience me just because some guy couldn't keep his family together.

Well, the guys need to do a better job of choosing who to marry and/or knock up to begin with.

[dimwit]

I've always found it weird that Canadian Immigration rigorously checks people entering Canada, but never bothers with people leaving to Japan. The feeling I get is that your typical immigration officer thinks 'These people are leaving the country so why should I give a shit'.

Personally, I think that it should be immigrations job to check on this, and single parents LEAVING Canada or whereever should have a letter of consent signed by the other parent.

[matsuki]

I've always found it weird that Canadian Immigration rigorously checks people entering Canada, but never bothers with people leaving to Japan. The feeling I get is that your typical immigration officer thinks 'These people are leaving the country so why should I give a shit'.

Personally, I think that it should be immigrations job to check on this, and single parents LEAVING Canada or whereever should have a letter of consent signed by the other parent.

Or make it easier by creating a registry for children under [insert age here] that they can quickly check to see that both parents consent to allow international travel. Swipe, confirm, thank you, next. Swipe, uh oh, looks like your husband will need to come down here to complete the international travel permission form so little Kai here can travel abroad.

[Catoneinutica]

That was one of the mostest homoerotic movies I've seen in a long time... And being a fan of Jason Statham's movies that tells quite a lot...

Yeah, you almost expected the old boys to hop in the shower and start snapping towels at each other's glute implants. It was like Top Gun crossed with, I dunno, Cocoon.

[maraboutslim]

Or make it easier by creating a registry for children under [insert age here] that they can quickly check to see that both parents consent to allow international travel. Swipe, confirm, thank you, next. Swipe, uh oh, looks like your husband will need to come down here to complete the international travel permission form so little Kai here can travel abroad.

Absolutely fucking not. Why should the thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) people doing nothing wrong have to do anything extra on the off chance that they are the one case of family "abduction"?

I'm just sick of this attitude that we all have to give up our rights and personal liberties in an attempt prevent things that are very, very rare in the first place.

One parent's permission to travel is plenty. If the other parent isn't in agreement, well, that's an issue between the parents - not the parents and the government. And they certainly shouldn't be able to drag all the rest of us into their mess by enacting all kinds of new rules and regulations that limit our movements.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Or make it easier by creating a registry for children under [insert age here] that they can quickly check to see that both parents consent to allow international travel. Swipe, confirm, thank you, next. Swipe, uh oh, looks like your husband will need to come down here to complete the international travel permission form so little Kai here can travel abroad.

This seems a bit bass ackwards and designed to inconvenience as many people as possible. How about a no-fly list of sorts for kids in the middle of custody disputes, etc?

[matsuki]

Absolutely fucking not. Why should the thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) people doing nothing wrong have to do anything extra on the off chance that they are the one case of family "abduction"?

I'm just sick of this attitude that we all have to give up our rights and personal liberties in an attempt prevent things that are very, very rare in the first place.

One parent's permission to travel is plenty. If the other parent isn't in agreement, well, that's an issue between the parents - not the parents and the government. And they certainly shouldn't be able to drag all the rest of us into their mess by enacting all kinds of new rules and regulations that limit our movements.

This seems a bit bass ackwards and designed to inconvenience as many people as possible. How about a no-fly list of sorts for kids in the middle of custody disputes, etc?

Not saying it's the perfect solution but making it easy to register and a simple yes/no system for immigration would prevent most of these women from fleeing from the country with their children against the father's will...with the added side affect of possibly finding other abducted children...I don't see that as giving up any rights, just a very minor inconvenience to register which is greatly offset by the rescue of even one child who was abducted. (by a parent, pedophile, whoever)

Consider that Japan already fingerprints us FG every single time we enter the country and there is now that ESTA form that foreigners visiting the US need to file BEFORE coming to the U.S. A registration system for children doesn't seem like much more hassle...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Not saying it's the perfect solution but making it easy to register and a simple yes/no system for immigration would prevent most of these women from fleeing from the country with their children against the father's will...with the added side affect of possibly finding other abducted children...I don't see that as giving up any rights, just a very minor inconvenience to register which is greatly offset by the rescue of even one child who was abducted. (by a parent, pedophile, whoever)

Consider that Japan already fingerprints us FG every single time we enter the country and there is now that ESTA form that foreigners visiting the US need to file BEFORE coming to the U.S. A registration system for children doesn't seem like much more hassle...

My idea still makes more sense. Fewer people to register and it doesn't incovenience those whose houses are in order. The fact that the US and Japan have already taken away some freedoms doesn't justify taking away more.

[AML]

I agree with SJ here, the number of people in this abduction situation is very small. Not enough to justify radical action.

For every one case of abduction there are probably a hundred "normal" jp/foreign families that have no problems.

But overall it does suck that not enough is being done to help in these abduction situations.

[maraboutslim]

For every one case of abduction there are probably a hundred "normal" jp/foreign families that have no problems.

It's gotta be more like thousands. Or tens of thousands.

I remember one time my son's US passport expired while he happened to be in Japan with his mom. In order for her to renew it, they had to send me a form to sign to authorize getting him a new passport: similarly, the Japanese consulate here in San Francisco requires the whole damn family to show up when getting new passports for the kids. It's a huge pain in the ass! And I'd much rather risk my wife being able to "abduct" the kids than have had to put up with even this extra bullshit layer of redtape, much less the added layers being proposed here.

[matsuki]

My idea still makes more sense. Fewer people to register and it doesn't incovenience those whose houses are in order. The fact that the US and Japan have already taken away some freedoms doesn't justify taking away more.

I agree with SJ here, the number of people in this abduction situation is very small. Not enough to justify radical action.

For every one case of abduction there are probably a hundred "normal" jp/foreign families that have no problems.

I'd much rather risk my wife being able to "abduct" the kids than have had to put up with even this extra bullshit layer of redtape, much less the added layers being proposed here.

I understand the % is small but as I've been trying to point out, these parental abduction cases are not the only type of abduction cases. As rare as they may be, if your child was the 1 in a million that does get abducted by a former spouse or some pedophile, I doubt you'll feel that way.

SJ, your suggestion would be less burdensome but would be more difficult get the desired result. Where would you draw the line on who and how such a restriction could be placed. What if the wifey decides to jump ship without filing for divorce? If the father foresees trouble, he could immediately remove his permission from the system I suggest. (no questions asked, no explanation necessary) In your suggestion, I suppose it would involve getting a court to place the restriction on the child and even then, if the mother gets the kid a new foreign passport, if the kid has a different name registered on it (like many dual national children do), what happens then?

Call me crazy but registering parental permission for children to travel internationally hardly seems like "radical action," it seems pretty simple, straighforward and reasonable....hell it could replace the more retarded requirements some embassies may have for passports. Have them do it when they get the child's passport, kid gets fingerprinted and then simply gets his fingerprints scanned when leaving the country. How much of an inconvenience is that?

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Sorry guys, but this case is simply a non-issue as far as Japan is concerned.
Joint custody is still barely an issue here, if at all. That would seem to come long before anything to do with foreigners, a blip of a demographic in this cuntry...

[maraboutslim]

And that is something that every man should have been well aware of before he had a child with a japanese woman.

[wagyl]

kid gets fingerprinted and then simply gets his fingerprints scanned when leaving the country. How much of an inconvenience is that?

Excellent! More fingerprint data for Big Brother! Why not get a DNA swab while you are at it, just to be sure.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Sorry guys, but this case is simply a non-issue as far as Japan is concerned.
Joint custody is still barely an issue here, if at all. That would seem to come long before anything to do with foreigners, a blip of a demographic in this cuntry...

We're talking about how other countries should deal with it. Personally, I think that until Japan agrees to play ball, the rest of the world should put special travel restrictions on Japanese people who have children with one of their nationals.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Personally, I think that until Japan agrees to play ball, the rest of the world should put special travel restrictions on Japanese people who have children with one of their nationals.

Tit for tat never works too well in diplomacy (Why get Western tat when you can have Japanese tit?). That's why I always laugh at the U.S. Middle Eastern policy that demands democracies but hates it when people want to elect rapid anti-imperialists that hate the Great Satan (and Uncle Sam goes back to the good 'ol despots because, to paraphrase LBJ, "at least they're our despots.")
I, personally, agree with you on this issue. But what happens if Japan wants something reciprocal, like the U.S. joining the International Criminal Court, which is far more valid an issue globally than the Hague Convention, which applies to only a few hundred people at most?

[Yokohammer]

Hey, progress! [SIZE="1"](Maybe)[/SIZE]
Plan to join Hague pact on custody due in May

[cstaylor]

Without changes to domestic law, does joining the treaty mean anything?

[Mike Oxlong]

Without changes to domestic law, does joining the treaty mean anything?

Reading around various sites and comments discussing this development, there is a certain faction that believes this move is in response to the earthquake/tsunami assistance. They claim that Japan does not want to be seen continuing to thumb their nose at the international community while at the same time receiving a great deal of support for the recent disaster. So by making this token gesture (which I agree is meaningless without the domestic attitudes and legal procedures lining up) they can be seen as returning the support of the international community through cooperation on this issue. Meanwhile, they've left a loophole allowing domestic interpretation of DV (a mother's word is all that's needed to document a case of DV).