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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

China vs. Japan: Who Will Win?

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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80 posts • Page 3 of 3 • 1, 2, 3

the china japan war

Postby homesweethome » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:32 pm

The coming China Japan war

I really see no point in discussing a conventional war scenario between Japan and China. For several reasons this may occur in the first stages of an armed conflict, but it is one the Chinese would find costly and time consuming, and probably one they could not win anyway. They have already ruled much of this out. The conflict will quickly escalate to first strike nuclear checkmate on the Chinese part encompassing Japan of course.

A most likely scenario: On the first day of World War III, the United States will lose two-thirds of its military and nearly half its population, yielding superiority to communist China.

The Chinese surprise of a rain of missiles on U.S. installations and homeland cities would be a military masterpiece. The People's Liberation Army Second Artillery Corp would have achieved total victory armed only with a small force of more than 300 tactical and 10 strategic missiles.

Defenseless against the attack, U.S. forces in Hawaii, Alaska, South Korea and Japan would be quickly overwhelmed by the guided warheads of the Chinese missiles.

In a span of little more than 30 minutes, China would be able to wipe out Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, San Diego, Chicago, Washington, Boston, New York, Hawaii, Manila, Seoul, Taipei and Tokyo.

Image
Chinese stealth patrol attact craft

China could sink five U.S. carriers, seven Ohio class submarines, vaporize more than 200 MX and Minuteman missiles and destroy more than 800 combat aircraft including 15 B-2 strategic bombers. The strikes would also kill more than 100 million people without the loss of a single PLA soldier.

The attack will have left China with 10 remaining strategic missiles and nearly 300 tactical missiles, holding the devastated U.S. hostage to another strike.

Image

Despite the calls to retaliate, sending the scattered remains of U.S. nuclear forces against China would not stop another attack on America, nor would it stop the PLA Generals who ordered the first.

There is no question that the U.S. strategic missiles could devastate the Chinese homeland. However, killing hundreds of millions of innocent Chinese citizens would do little to deter the warlords in Beijing from launching the second wave of 10 missiles while remaining hidden inside bomb-proof tunnels.

China's sudden attack would force America and her allies to surrender on Beijing's terms. In little more than 48 hours, China will have won World War III.

China also has recently tested a new long-range missile capable of reaching America, the DF-31. The DF-31 is capable of delivering a single multi-megaton H-bomb or up to three 90-kiloton nuclear bombs. The most recent DF-31 test took place earlier this year, and some Pentagon analysts expect the PLA Second Artillery will begin active deployment of DF-31 units early next year.

Image

New secret technology
The Chinese can be creative too.

A Type-65 anti-submarine torpedo should be used "very likely with a low-yield nuclear warhead" to avoid having to make a direct strike on the ship. The attack also should take place at night to help mask the torpedo wake.

The submarine would be able to evade U.S. attack submarines because it is based on advanced Russian submarine technology.

The submarine can avoid detection by U.S. anti-submarine warfare aircraft by operating at 10 knots at a depth of 400 meters.

The Chinese 093 will run quiet "below a pre-surveyed ocean dense layer" as U.S. escort ships pass overhead. It would then confront the carrier head on and use eight Type-65 torpedoes and escape quietly

Image


It is worth noting that each Chinese DF-15 tactical missile has a flight time of less than four minutes, from launch to impact. Today, China dominates the tactical nuclear missile category and frequently demonstrates that fact. In 1996, China dropped dummy DF-15 warheads just off Taiwan's coastline.

Here is a detailed analysis of quantity and types of chinese ICMBs
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jul2005/d20050719china.pdf
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flotilla mobilized

Postby homesweethome » Fri Sep 30, 2005 2:42 pm

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Postby Mulboyne » Mon Oct 03, 2005 1:49 pm

A recent post from strategypage.com (which HSH drew attention to earlier).

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2005101192214.asp
China Versus Japan at Sea
by Harold C. Hutchison
October 1, 2005

...In a straight naval-air fight over the Senkaku Islands, Japan has an advantage, even if they are on their own. While China is modernizing, Japan is not standing still, modernizing its military and keeping a qualitative edge over its larger neighbor.
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Postby Buraku » Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:17 pm

Did you say strategypage !! :lol:
here we go again, sometimes they have a good link on that site

But mostly that thing is the biggest joke on the net,
I've tallked with folks in the military, guys who are in the aerospace industry, people who did a tour...
and most of them reckon a lot of the military stuff on the web is wrote by crackpots and disgruntled teens

info-war dot com, blast-them dot com....there are a heap of sites with rubbish

strategypage is headed by some silly little boy in Texas and a patriotic 13 yr old indian geek drooling at the mouth
that seem to be stuck in the days of war = spanish/british style Naval battles
Forget the fantasy of Gundam pokemon - Naval battles

China have better military tech, they have experienced infantry, superior missile tech, real fighter pilots, better subs.....
I'm not saying Japan is worthless, they have a good Navy but that's all they got

the reality is China would only have to land one little missile on Tokyo and it would be game over for Nippon
Image
but the Chinese are trying to behave lately
& I've always predicted that trouble for Japan will come from somewhere else

China won't make its move for at least another decade
strategypage have it all wrong
as homesweethome said - China ain't looking for this kind of fight
so there is no point in discussing a conventional war
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Postby homesweethome » Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:10 pm

Mulboyne wrote:A recent post from strategypage.com (which HSH drew attention to earlier).

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2005101192214.asp
China Versus Japan at Sea
by Harold C. Hutchison
October 1, 2005

...In a straight naval-air fight over the Senkaku Islands, Japan has an advantage, even if they are on their own. While China is modernizing, Japan is not standing still, modernizing its military and keeping a qualitative edge over its larger neighbor.


Actually I was taking great liberties with something Ann Coulter wrote which I came across in Strategypage. It seemed timely, relevant and entertaining, so I used it. I probably should have quoted her though.

I did see this article by Hutchinson and it seemed academic. The spoon fed media reported today that the Chinese pointed a 'gun' at the P3C Orion patrol aircraft almost a month ago. This came out today!!! In another article a minister said he hopes the Chinese are acting in good faith and not just stalling for time. In the Chinese press the Foreign Minister has already stated that a flotilla has been activated. A flotilla is a lot of ships, a lot more than the small task force the Chinese have down their now.

Since nobody except the two governments know exactly what is going on I would wager the following: The Japanese have despite what they say to the contrary, dispached a task force of their own to the area to protect their interests. This is already being fought out in the media and will soon escalate according to preconceived plans already on the board.

The Chinese have no intention of acting in good faith, why should they give up something they think rightfully belongs to them just because the Japanese say to do so.
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Postby Buraku » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:41 am

The strategypage.com can be ok at times,
sometimes it has accurate new reports..

...other times they are total f*cking dorks
that re-hash old reports saying that Mao came back from the dead, Austria is going to claim Europe, and the Cubans and USSR are going to launch an attack

Here's a strange one
:)
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=1&id=352579
Reports of a story carrying a fake Kyodo News credit and falsely announcing that Chinese warplanes had invaded Japanese airspace over Okinawa posted on a pseudo Yahoo! News website were confirmed on the web Wednesday.
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Postby homesweethome » Fri Oct 21, 2005 8:49 am

Buraku wrote:The strategypage.com can be ok at times,
sometimes it has accurate new reports..

...other times they are total f*cking dorks
that re-hash old reports saying that Mao came back from the dead, Austria is going to claim Europe, and the Cubans and USSR are going to launch an attack

Here's a strange one
:)
http://www.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=1&id=352579
Reports of a story carrying a fake Kyodo News credit and falsely announcing that Chinese warplanes had invaded Japanese airspace over Okinawa posted on a pseudo Yahoo! News website were confirmed on the web Wednesday.


The site was a fake but the news wasn't, I maintain it was a leak by somebody frustrated by the status quo, government managed media taking the initiative and putting out 'erroniously in this case' a story about another Chinese spy plane overflight. These things happen all the time, along with a lot of other things. What things? Well, Japan says it doesn't have any military ships in the area in responce to the Chinese, this is a lie. They say China is the aggressor and Japan is just defending itself. Koizumi is just paying homage to his dead relatives at Yasukuni, but the Chinese think he is preparing for the next war and asking for the gods favor and preparing the people for the sacrifices that will have to be made to secure the sacred Japanese Islands economic security from the evil and wicked Chinese, and they are just crazy enough to believe it!
That is the scary part.
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Postby Charles » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:47 am

Buraku wrote:The strategypage.com can be ok at times,
sometimes it has accurate new reports..

...other times they are total f*cking dorks
that re-hash old reports saying that Mao came back from the dead, Austria is going to claim Europe, and the Cubans and USSR are going to launch an attack...


How ridiculous. Austria doesn't have to claim Europe, they already control the fate of the world since they possess The Spear of Destiny.
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the current state of war tech in Japan vs China

Postby homesweethome » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:21 pm

An excellent article on the technical aspects of China's navy vs Japan

http://www.strategycenter.net/research/pubID.83/pub_detail.asp
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Postby Buraku » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:02 am

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Postby homesweethome » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:39 pm

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Postby Buraku » Fri Jan 20, 2006 7:13 pm

homesweethome wrote:Buraku wrote:


Thanks B, I needed that. And I can throw in that China has 500 specially trained, island/oil platform seizure and control, commandos for every one that the US and Japan has put together. No amount of 'special training' Japan is getting will make up for this numerical fact, technological superiority or no. IMHO.

China's 50,000 Commandoes

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsf/articles/20051214.aspx



I would still take strategypage dot com with a pinch of salt, nobody outside Beijing really knows the commando numbers,
so they might have just 15,000 or even 95,000 but the estimate of 50,000 does seem a resonable figure for China, considering the size of the country

some more

Sino-Japanese oil rivalry spills into Africa
http://www.iags.org/n0119062.htm
IAGS


China's Developing World Energy Strategy
http://www.sinodaily.com/news/Chinas_Developing_World_Energy_Strategy.html
A big part of China's efforts to put its affairs in order before lunar new year celebrations is focused on energy security issues with other developing nations.

Opposing shrine visits not against Japan: former Chinese diplomat
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-01/18/content_4068326.htm
xinhuanet

China, Japan can agree on gas reserve development, China says+
(Japan Economic Newswire Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)BEIJING, Jan. 19_(Kyodo) _ Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Wu Dawei said Wednesday that China and Japan can agree on jointly developing a gas reserve in the East China Sea even though it may take time, Japanese Senior Vice Foreign Minister Yasuhisa Shiozaki said.
Shiozaki, who met with Wu, made the remarks after his meeting, adding that China wants to continue talks with Japan
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/-china-japan-agree-gas-reserve-development-china-says-/2006/01/18/1295437.htm
tmcnet

VHeadline.com commentarist Alfredo Bremont writes: As expected, the Iranian question is taking form ... while the issue is not yet resolved, referring Iran to the UN Security Council becomes a prelude to another Iraqi mess. Washington is considering its alternatives in an un-winnable war, already acknowledging that the quagmire in Iraqi will never end and that Afghanistan is on its way to becoming a decades long armed struggle.
http://www.vheadline.com/readnews.asp?id=47698
At this juncture, Venezuela must prepare itself for the inevitable military intervention from "neighboring regions" and well-planed domestic insurgency guided by the opposition's mainstream media.
...The ultimate target is not simply Iran, North Korea or al Qaeda ... but is squarely focused on China and Russia.
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Postby Mulboyne » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:14 am

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Postby Tsuru » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:25 am

*Submits a motion to relocate all J-chicks to Europe and the US and let the rest fight it out amongst themselves ;)
"Doing engineering calculations with the imperial system is like wiping your ass with acorns, it works, but it's painful and stupid."

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Postby Greji » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:56 am

[quote="Tsuru"]*Submits a motion to relocate all J-chicks to Europe and the US and let the rest fight it out amongst themselves ]

Ahh, where can I go to veto that plan?
:p
"There are those that learn by reading. Then a few who learn by observation. The rest have to piss on an electric fence and find out for themselves!"- Will Rogers
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Postby Buraku » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:49 am

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Postby Buraku » Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:23 am

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Postby Buraku » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:34 pm

Japan's new defense chief Fumio Kyuma was quoted saying Wednesday that China's growing military spending posed a threat to Japan, taking a stance that has angered Beijing in the past.
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Japanese_Defense_Chief_Says_Military_Growth_Of_China_A_Threat_999.html
His remarks, one day after being named to the post, came on the heels of a pledge by new Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to try to improve relations with China that had soured under his predecessor Junichiro Koizumi.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv5Nf0Ypro0
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Postby Greji » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:03 pm

Buraku wrote:Japan's new defense chief Fumio Kyuma was quoted saying Wednesday that China's growing military spending posed a threat to Japan, taking a stance that has angered Beijing in the past.
http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Japanese_Defense_Chief_Says_Military_Growth_Of_China_A_Threat_999.html
His remarks, one day after being named to the post, came on the heels of a pledge by new Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to try to improve relations with China that had soured under his predecessor Junichiro Koizumi.


Just to help out the defense effort, while Uriabuji is testing missles and claiming nuke tests, the Mayor of one of the burgs in Okinawa is starting a movement opposing the set up of the patriot missles designated for Okinawa. It must be difficult to govern such a peaceful country.
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Postby Buraku » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:24 pm

China's trillion dollar surplus
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6106280.stm
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