Gang Bang Girl Consented, Rules Court

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

SJ's argument is really logical and reasonable. But, I think before we criticize Japanese courts about their handling of the drunkeness of the woman in this case, try and put an argument before a rape trial anywhere in the Western world that the woman should take responsibility for her intoxication and I can almost guarantee you'll end up being tarred and feathered or whatever the 21st century equivalent is.
It would be career suicide for a judge to rule in favor of a defendant accused of raping a woman so drunk she was incomprehensible.

Now that you mention it, I can remember waking up next to some absolutely hideous beasts I had fornicated with after getting utterly wasted...I guess I've been raped, too....

[Samurai_Jerk]

Bull. Is the drunk driver plied with as much alcohol required to get him falling down then escorted out to his car and told to have a nice drive home? The fact is that bars in many parts of the world are criminally responsible if a customer drinks to much and is knowingly allowed to drive.

If you're relatively sober at a party and find a drunk girl passed out in a back room and pull her pants down and fuck her, yeah, that's rape. But that's not what we're talking about.

Alcohol is a social lubricant and I bet most guys on here have got laid at least once with its help. There have been times when I've been totally shit housed and woke up thinking, "Why the fuck did I hit that?". Can you imagine any court in the world supporting a man's claim that he was taken advantage of and raped while drunk? Hookers target drunk guys all the time because they know they're not using their best judgement. Should that be considered rape or sexual assault? Should casinos be considered guilty of robbery for giving out free drinks to keep people gambling? Should bars that have ladies' nights where women drink for less be an accessory to rape if a chick get wasted, blows a guy in the bathroom, and regrets it later?

The attitude is that when a guy fucks somebody drunk the alcohol brought out his true nature. But when it's a women, the alcohol made her do something she didn't want to. Fucking bullshit.

[AssKissinger]

Let this be a lesson to any fellow who for some fucking reason doesn't already know this. If you see the whole crew fucking some chick, stay out of it. Better yet, tell them to stop. That shit ain't cool. I may or may not call it rape because I don't know what happened exactly. But I know the whole crew wasn't supposed to fuck her. That shit ain't right. Those guys knew it was wrong when they did it.

[FG Lurker]

If you're relatively sober at a party and find a drunk girl passed out in a back room and pull her pants down and fuck her, yeah, that's rape. But that's not what we're talking about.

Alcohol is a social lubricant and I bet most guys on here have got laid at least once with its help. There have been times when I've been totally shit housed and woke up thinking, "Why the fuck did I hit that?". Can you imagine any court in the world supporting a man's claim that he was taken advantage of and raped while drunk? Hookers target drunk guys all the time because they know they're not using their best judgement. Should that be considered rape or sexual assault? Should casinos be considered guilty of robbery for giving out free drinks to keep people gambling? Should bars that have ladies' nights where women drink for less be an accessory to rape if a chick get wasted, blows a guy in the bathroom, and regrets it later?

The attitude is that when a guy fucks somebody drunk the alcohol brought out his true nature. But when it's a women, the alcohol made her do something she didn't want to. Fucking bullshit.

Agreed 100%.

[FG Lurker]

Let this be a lesson to any fellow who for some fucking reason doesn't already know this. If you see the whole crew fucking some chick, stay out of it. Better yet, tell them to stop. That shit ain't cool. I may or may not call it rape because I don't know what happened exactly. But I know the whole crew wasn't supposed to fuck her. That shit ain't right. Those guys knew it was wrong when they did it.

To be clear I'd have no interest in taking part in something like this.

However what consenting adults choose to do with each other should be up to them. If she was so off her ass fucked-up drunk that she had absolutely no idea what the hell was going on (ie mostly passed out) then she wasn't consenting (same as SJ said a couple of posts above). If she just got drunk and ended up doing things she later regretted then tough shit. Personal responsibility. Don't drink if you end up doing crazy things that you're going to seriously regret!! It's not rocket science...

[dimwit]

The attitude is that when a guy fucks somebody drunk the alcohol brought out his true nature. But when it's a women, the alcohol made her do something she didn't want to. Fucking bullshit.

If we were talking about one guy doing the dirty, I might have some understanding of the situation. This was six guys. Maybe my worldview is a little narrow but I know of very few women who would consent to banging half the football team in one evening, other than a hooker. This was a 19 year old university student who had a weak tolerance for alcohol.

The thing that pisses me even worse is that these guy are attending Education College -they are going to be fucking teachers. Would you want your daughter being taught/molested by one of these assholes? The president of the university should have kicked the shits out just for giving the school a black eye.

[Mike Oxlong]

If we were talking about one guy doing the dirty, I might have some understanding of the situation. This was six guys. Maybe my worldview is a little narrow but I know of very few women who would consent to banging half the football team in one evening, other than a hooker. This was a 19 year old university student who had a weak tolerance for alcohol.

The thing that pisses me even worse is that these guy are attending Education College -they are going to be fucking teachers. Would you want your daughter being taught/molested by one of these assholes? The president of the university should have kicked the shits out just for giving the school a black eye.

Right, she had a low tolerance, and very little legal drinking experience. It seems a good bet she was carried to the empty room in a state of semi-consciousness, and then she "consented" to bang a half-dozen guys practically in public. I'm sure she was wrong to put herself in a situation where she could easily be taken advantage of, but two wrongs do not make a right in this, or any case. Just because you can take advantage of someone...

[FG Lurker]

If we were talking about one guy doing the dirty, I might have some understanding of the situation. This was six guys. Maybe my worldview is a little narrow but I know of very few women who would consent to banging half the football team in one evening, other than a hooker. This was a 19 year old university student who had a weak tolerance for alcohol.

Yeah, cause all 19yos are innocent angels with no alcohol tolerance...

The thing that pisses me even worse is that these guy are attending Education College -they are going to be fucking teachers. Would you want your daughter being taught/molested by one of these assholes? The president of the university should have kicked the shits out just for giving the school a black eye.

Come on dimwit, banging a drunk 19yo (even all 6 of 'em) has absolutely nothing to do with pedophilia. Poor judgement perhaps but I would imagine most of us have done our share of stupid shit drunk off our asses in our teens or early 20s. As long as it wasn't rape or otherwise illegal then I don't see a problem with it.

[FG Lurker]

Right, she had a low tolerance, and very little legal drinking experience. It seems a good bet she was carried to the empty room in a state of semi-consciousness, and then she "consented" to bang a half-dozen guys practically in public.

I can't see how they would have managed to pull that off without someone else in the restaurant seeing them--carrying a passed out person is going to attract some looks. If anyone had seen this happen I doubt the court could have ruled that she consented. It seems far more likely that she had a couple of drinks too many, lost her inhibitions, and did things she regretted when word got out about it the next day. A few friends asking her if it's really true that she got banged by 6 guys last night would be a rather embarrassing experience to say the least. (Anyone who has been here for awhile should have been out drinking at least once with a female who starts taking off her clothes and climbing over guys when she gets drunk. It happens.)

I'm sure she was wrong to put herself in a situation where she could easily be taken advantage of, but two wrongs do not make a right in this, or any case. Just because you can take advantage of someone...

If everyone is drunk lots of things seem like "good ideas" that later turn out to not have been any such thing. Sometimes those "good ideas" are illegal, in which case proper punishment should be delivered. Other times though they turn out to be things you wouldn't wish to repeat and wouldn't have done sober. Regardless, people should still be responsible for the choices they make after choosing to get drunk.

[dimwit]

Yeah, cause all 19yos are innocent angels with no alcohol tolerance...

No they aren't, but how many woman of any age that you know have had six guys a night that weren't hooking? And as for whether they should be teachers, you said it yourself -they have poor judgement.

[Mike Oxlong]

I've been in restaurants where the empty room was accessible from our party room (we were second from the end, and empty room was the end room). In such a case, the people in our room would sure know what was going on next door, but the staff and other customers may well not. Your scenario is equally as likely as mine, but it's really hard to say which is more likely. Yup, there are some buckwild chix that like to rock at the first drop of alcohol, and there are some messed up situations where bad shit happens that should not...the drunk guys could have decided to run a rape train - should they not be held responsible for that (assuming that's what happened)? It's a lot tougher call than some are making it out to be. I'm not saying your hypotheticals are wrong, just equally (un)likely as the others.

[FG Lurker]

No they aren't, but how many woman of any age that you know have had six guys a night that weren't hooking?

Personally one, but I've heard a number of other stories second hand. There are women out there who love sex, believe it or not. I wouldn't be into doing anything like that myself but to each their own.

And as for whether they should be teachers, you said it yourself -they have poor judgement.

Yeah, a bunch of people got drunk and did something at least one of them regretted the next day so the guys should have the entire rest of their lives completely ruined. This system works oh-so-well in the US with the sex offender registry, we should definitely implement it here. /sarcasm

[Greji]

No they aren't, but how many woman of any age that you know have had six guys a night that weren't hooking? And as for whether they should be teachers, you said it yourself -they have poor judgement.

I have seen a few. True nymphos without the need for booze. One was a nurse that only required a carload of fellows to drop by her apartment and then on to the next car. Another was just a female student who used to be the doorprize for the first group or two arriving at stag parties. She ended up working in a cat house on the Mississippi River in Iowa. Another was a housewife that used to call the frat house and invite the fellas over for conversation. Claimed her old man was doing time and she was just lonely., etc.

I know what you're pointing at dimmer, but there are some wierdos out there.....

[FG Lurker]

I've been in restaurants where the empty room was accessible from our party room (we were second from the end, and empty room was the end room). In such a case, the people in our room would sure know what was going on next door, but the staff and other customers may well not.

This is possible but then there are two things to consider too:

1) Other people in their party would have known what was going on. Either they all decided to lie and managed to coordinate their stories and then stick to them (which is difficult to do) or they knew and it wasn't rape.

2) If there were no other people in their party there would have been little reason to move everyone to another room.

Your scenario is equally as likely as mine, but it's really hard to say which is more likely.

I guess it depends on your outlook on human nature. Personally I don't think most men will rape an unconscious woman and that the likelihood of it happening with a group of people (especially from within a larger group) is fairly small. However a bunch of people getting drunk and doing something stupid hardly seems far-fetched to me.

Yup, there are some buckwild chix that like to rock at the first drop of alcohol, and there are some messed up situations where bad shit happens that should not...the drunk guys could have decided to run a rape train - should they not be held responsible for that (assuming that's what happened)? It's a lot tougher call than some are making it out to be.

Everyone should be held responsible for what they do drunk, that's what I've been saying all along. If the woman got drunk and then regretted what she did that's her problem. If it was rape, the guys should definitely be held responsible. I just don't think this is a likely rape scenario, and apparently the court agreed.

[Mike Oxlong]

This just goes to show that I know way less about human nature than the very little that I thought I did...

[Samurai_Jerk]

No they aren't, but how many woman of any age that you know have had six guys a night that weren't hooking? And as for whether they should be teachers, you said it yourself -they have poor judgement.

Not many but I've known at least two who've let something like that happen. I also know girls who've been fucked by two guys at a time when they were drunk and regretted it later. They never cried rape though. Another girl I knew in high school got drunk at a house party and blew every guy there. She seemed to be proud of it though (She did have a nickname including the world "oral" and that was before that party).

I'm not defending the guys in this case because I don't know what happened. I think either scenario (she let herself get gang banged and regretted it later or was out cold drunk and got raped) is believable and I don't think it's fair to assume that the guys are guilty just because it looks bad.

Look at the DSK case in NYC. It looked like he was guilty as hell of sexually assaulting that hotel maid now it looks like she may have set him up.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Let this be a lesson to any fellow who for some fucking reason doesn't already know this. If you see the whole crew fucking some chick, stay out of it.

Agreed

Better yet, tell them to stop. That shit ain't cool. I may or may not call it rape because I don't know what happened exactly. But I know the whole crew wasn't supposed to fuck her. That shit ain't right. Those guys knew it was wrong when they did it.

Bullshit. Since when are you a moralist? Some people like to "party". Why the fuck should you, I or anyone else care?

[AssKissinger]

Bullshit. Since when are you a moralist? Some people like to "party". Why the fuck should you, I or anyone else care?

If she came in and said right away 'I'm gonna get drunk and fuck the whole damn crew' then yeah ok but if she just got really trashed and then tag teamed and then the crew lined up I would say 'Don't fuck her. She doesn't really wanna fuck the whole damn crew.' But if she got up and said 'Fuck off AK I'm trying to fuck the whole damn crew!' I would say 'Alrighty then' but then I would quietly add 'I still don't think yall should fuck her cause you're the whole damn crew.'

http://youtu.be/f-GDzhYFZak

I'm a mother fucker, i put a bitch to the test
if she dont pass, she dont get blessed.
If the test consists, of fucking my whole crew.
then bitch, god-damn, thats what you gotta do.
You say you wanna be down with Willie-D,
but yet you find it difficult to listen to me,
everytime you fuck up and skip a class,
imma put my god-damn foot in your ass.
And if your father wants to buck-up,
I'll beat the wrinkles out that old mothafucka.
I treat a bitch like a queen,
but she has to realize I'm the goddamn king.

http://youtu.be/irn9FYJP2fY

Do anything for a hit or two
Give the bitch a rock and she'll fuck your whole damn crew
It might be your wife and it might make you sick
Come home and see her mouth on the Dopeman's dick

Man, i wouldn't touch that shit
Me neither- whore go home and wash out your beaver

[American Oyaji]

No they aren't, but how many woman of any age that you know have had six guys a night that weren't hooking? And as for whether they should be teachers, you said it yourself -they have poor judgement.

I know of three. Two Japanese and one American.

The American chick TOLD me about it and was proud of it. She let the football team run a train on her.

One Japanese chick would go into the back room at parties and let guys run trains on her. I heard this from a number of people. She didn't deny it. But she wasn't too bright and listened to hip hop too much.

The last one was really intelligent and got taken advantage of because she did something stupid. Was drinking with a couple guys, they said come party and ended up shagging about 10 chimpiras. She told me it was her fault.

[GomiGirl]

Lots of really interesting back and forth here that shows more about the morals of the posters here as it can only be speculation about the actual case or the morals or otherwise of the girl. I am not going to weigh in as everybody has already said pretty much everything possible about the girl.

Nobody is talking much about the guys. Aren't you just glad you weren't guy number 6 in that jizz soup? (As a girl that just makes me wanna puke.)

Also, how much fun would it be to bang a comatose girl? Not much I would think.

It begs the question:
How much of this was brought on by peer pressure between the guys? (aka "The Accused")

I am not a guy (obviously) so don't know what sort of peer pressure would go on in a situation like this.

[damn name]

I think there's a lot we don't know.

Is the title of the thread accurate that the court ruled that she consented? Or did the court rule that it is possible that a drunk person can consent. That seems like more than just nuance to me.

Did the girl give testimony in this case or was she not part of the equation at all since it was about the action of the university toward the guys? If she did give testimony, what made her testimony or character unreliable? What was this "evidence" that she may have consented?

We have one girl who says she didn't consent and six guys who said she did consent.

I don't care what people do. They can live their lives anyway they wish, as long as they don't affect me. But I don't think any of us know what really took place or the people involved to make any kind of judgement.

As always, TIJ, so there are usually hidden forces (the OB network, money, etc.) at work behind the scenes that drive the outcome, or even the wording of the outcome.

[matsuki]

If you're relatively sober at a party and find a drunk girl passed out in a back room and pull her pants down and fuck her, yeah, that's rape. But that's not what we're talking about.

Exactly, and most of us know at least one super slut that enjoys this kind of thing, possibly brags about it. Keep in mind, TIJ with group everything...why should group sex seem that far out there?

Alcohol is a social lubricant and I bet most guys on here have got laid at least once with its help.

Dammnit SJ, all this making sense is racking my brain!

Many girls are sluts at heart and alcohol gives them the excuse to be that slut without feeling like a slut or being labelled a slut by others. "I was drunk" seems the ultimate cop out that everyone socially accepts. (though we all know it just removes inhibitions...or helps you take a grenade for a friend) That's all great and dandy but when XXchan gets called out and embarrassed by her actions, the only other cop out is rape, and that's what we have here. If she had really been raped, she would have been screaming...and this was in a restaurant yes? No way that a girl screaming as she's being raped would go unnoticed, even in a busy restaurant.

[IparryU]

Lots of really interesting back and forth here that shows more about the morals of the posters here as it can only be speculation about the actual case or the morals or otherwise of the girl. I am not going to weigh in as everybody has already said pretty much everything possible about the girl.

Nobody is talking much about the guys. Aren't you just glad you weren't guy number 6 in that jizz soup? (As a girl that just makes me wanna puke.)

Also, how much fun would it be to bang a comatose girl? Not much I would think.

It begs the question:
How much of this was brought on by peer pressure between the guys? (aka "The Accused")

I am not a guy (obviously) so don't know what sort of peer pressure would go on in a situation like this.

As for the accused, it is quite clear that they were all having fun, but was it rape or not? You cant really determine that unless you figure out what the victim's status was. And what that draws down to (in this case) is if she was biting the truth or not. This is the reason why no one is talking about the accused in this situation, purely because the bigger picture lays with the victim.

Is it fun banging a comatose girl? IMO no, not one bit. I don't like the "dead fish" fuck and that is the reason why I didn't go after younger girls when I was single... older girls with experience was my taste. However, there are other guys out there who may enjoy the comatose girl... if that is what get 'em goin... ok, but not my cup of tea.

Regarding the "peer pressure" between the accused, I doubt there was any, but the two who were "watching and only touched" the victim... they were probably along for the show more than the ride itself. But none the less, they are just as equally involved in the case as the others who had more contact with the girl. If this was a "true" rape case, then by all means don't let them off the hook.

But in general GG, everyone is hoping that the accused are tried fairly... complete rubbish how easy it is to be tried for rape. But at least it is not like the US approach to sexual offenses... When I was doing my undergrad in Administration of Justice, our professors who were all previous DAs or police, pretty much said that the goal was to cut out any individual who may be a potential sex offender, despite playing fair or not... just lock them up as a risk factor.

[Samurai_Jerk]

It begs the question:
How much of this was brought on by peer pressure between the guys? (aka "The Accused")

I am not a guy (obviously) so don't know what sort of peer pressure would go on in a situation like this.

It probabaly depends on who you're hanging out with. In a Japanese university sports clubs (not to mention US fraternities) with the whole sempai-kohai thing I'd imagine it could be a pretty big factor.

[FG Lurker]

Lots of really interesting back and forth here that shows more about the morals of the posters here as it can only be speculation about the actual case or the morals or otherwise of the girl. I am not going to weigh in as everybody has already said pretty much everything possible about the girl.

Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
-- Groucho Marx

I'm pretty much a live-and-let-live kinda guy. If everyone is a consenting adult then it's their business.

Nobody is talking much about the guys. Aren't you just glad you weren't guy number 6 in that jizz soup? (As a girl that just makes me wanna puke.)

I think this is the third time I've said that I wouldn't be interested in partaking. Different strokes for different folks.

Also, how much fun would it be to bang a comatose girl? Not much I would think.

Never done it but I'd suspect no fun at all. However as the court has stated she consented I would say it's reasonable to assume that she wasn't comatose. Call me crazy...

It begs the question:
How much of this was brought on by peer pressure between the guys? (aka "The Accused")

I'm not sure it's reasonable to call them "the accused" when they aren't on trial and in fact the court found the female participant consented. That said, I can see peer pressure in Japan playing a part in getting guys "on the fence" to participate. That has nothing to do with whether the girl consented or not.

[Kanchou]

I don't like the "dead fish" fuck

The only thing worse is not having sex at all.

[American Oyaji]

Lots of really interesting back and forth here that shows more about the morals of the posters here as it can only be speculation about the actual case or the morals or otherwise of the girl. I am not going to weigh in as everybody has already said pretty much everything possible about the girl.

Nobody is talking much about the guys. Aren't you just glad you weren't guy number 6 in that jizz soup? (As a girl that just makes me wanna puke.)

Also, how much fun would it be to bang a comatose girl? Not much I would think.

It begs the question:
How much of this was brought on by peer pressure between the guys? (aka "The Accused")

I am not a guy (obviously) so don't know what sort of peer pressure would go on in a situation like this.

AK and I don't agree on a lot, but I think in this we do. I couldn't be a part of that.

For one, I don't share. Secondly, I would most definitely put a stop to it if I thought the woman in question was inebriated past common sense. But if she was sober enough and OK with it, I'd be excusing myself. Not something I want to be remotely associated with.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm not sure it's reasonable to call them "the accused" when they aren't on trial and in fact the court found the female participant consented. That said, I can see peer pressure in Japan playing a part in getting guys "on the fence" to participate. That has nothing to do with whether the girl consented or not.

I believe she's talking about the movie "The Accused" with Jodie Foster.

AK and I don't agree on a lot, but I think in this we do. I couldn't be a part of that.

For one, I don't share. Secondly, I would most definitely put a stop to it if I thought the woman in question was inebriated past common sense. But if she was sober enough and OK with it, I'd be excusing myself. Not something I want to be remotely associated with.

Word.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Many girls are sluts at heart.

I seriously hate this kind of attitude. Not because it's unfair (thought it is) but because it's one more barrier to me getting laid.

[AssKissinger]

Even when I was a teen or even younger I was never so weak-minded that peer pressure could get me to do something I really knew I didn't want to do or knew was wrong.