TPP

[matsuki]

US farm groups seek to exclude Japan from Pacific trade talks

US farm groups said on Wednesday Japan should be suspended from Pacific trade talks if the Asian nation insists on keeping tariffs on sensitive agricultural sectors.

Japanese Economics Minister Akira Amari told Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trading partners at talks in Singapore last week that Japan will not agree to abolish all tariffs on wheat, rice, dairy, sugar, beef and pork.

US and Japanese negotiators will hold two more days of meetings in Washington on farm exports from Thursday and groups representing dairy, wheat, rice and pork farmers said they could still reach a deal.

"Failing that, the alternative is suspending negotiations with Japan for now and concluding a truly comprehensive agreement with those TPP partners that are willing to meet the originally contemplated level of ambition," the National Association of Wheat Growers, US Wheat Associates, USA Rice Federation, the National Pork Producers Council and the International Dairy Foods Association said in a statement.

More

Yep, the love cannot come from one side.

Put up or GTFO

[Russell]

TPP no longer about free trade

Despite talks between Prime Minister Shinzo Abe and U.S. President Barack Obama in Tokyo on April 24 to iron out differences on the projected Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) free trade scheme, a subsequent joint statement went no further than saying that “we have identified a path forward on important bilateral TPP issues.”

The Japanese and U.S. governments had high hopes for the TPP to provide opportunities to grow their economies and expand employment opportunities.

Now, however, it has become more of a burden for fear of potential damage that would be incurred by both Tokyo and Washington because of the difficulties in the talks on the scheme.

At the root of the difficulties that the two governments face is the ambiguity in the “agreement” reached at a previous Abe-Obama meeting in Washington on Feb. 22, 2013.

Saying that the meeting confirmed that the TPP agreement would not be premised on across-the-board elimination of import tariffs, Abe reversed his Liberal Democratic Party’s public pledge that it would oppose Japan’s participation in the TPP talks if they were predicated on a total abolition of tariffs.

In bargaining with the U.S., however, Japan was forced to pay an excessively high price to become a party to the TPP talks by agreeing to lift curbs on imports of American beef imposed after an outbreak of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE or commonly known as mad cow disease) in the U.S. and to permit Aflac Inc., an American insurance firm, to market its products through the postal networks in Japan.

And bilateral negotiations are still dragging on to date regarding import tariffs on five product categories which Japan regards as “sanctuaries” (rice, wheat and barley, beef and pork, dairy products, and sugar).

At the same time, debates in Japan on trade liberalization have been distorted with those having vested interests demanding budget-based compensatory measures.

After Japan was admitted as a party to the TPP talks in July 2013, a major turning point came on Nov. 13 when 151 members of the U.S. House of Representatives wrote jointly to Obama, expressing their opposition to granting him fast-track negotiating authority. This has resulted in depriving his administration of flexibility in conducting the TPP talks.

Watching this development with a cool mind from Japan were the Japan Agricultural Cooperatives Group (JA Group) and bureaucrats of the Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, both of which had vehemently opposed the TPP scheme.

These two groups and LDP lawmakers representing the farming bloc agree that the TPP talks have entered the stage of a contest for endurance and that Japan should not make the first move designed to move the talks by offering a concession. These three groups have now revived their triangle alliance.

Unable to make any move to break the impasse in their TPP-related bilateral talks, Japan and the U.S. started looking for support from other members of the TPP talks. Tokyo made advances to Australia, and Washington to Mexico and Chile.

On April 7, Abe and his Australian counterpart, Tony Abbott, met in Tokyo and resolved key issues for a bilateral economic partnership agreement (EPA). Although this is one of the few achievements attributed to Abe in the field of external trade, its content does not appear to be as praiseworthy as the two governments try to suggest.

Under the pact, Japan will make 88 percent of all import items free of tariffs in 10 years, but this falls far short of “more than 95 percent” targeted in the TPP talks. The duties on frozen beef will be halved to 19.5 percent and those on chilled beef will be cut by about 40 percent to 23.5 percent.

Although Finance Ministry officials have described these tariff cuts in the Japan-Australia EPA as much more drastic than had been expected, they are more than offset by a safeguard” clause under which Japan may apply the old high duties in case of a steep rise in beef imports. The threshold for exercising that right for the initial year is set at about 330,000 tons — less than the yearly average of 340,000 tons that Australia has exported to Japan the past five years.

Although the government explains that this arrangement is a “safeguard” measure, it is in fact nothing less than a tariff quota system that may serve to lower beef prices in Japan to some extent but has the effect of setting Australian beef’s share in the Japanese market at a certain level. This system will protect Japanese livestock farmers while enabling Australia to avert competition with U.S. beef in the Japanese market. This is tantamount to trade control, rather than trade liberalization, because the system will allow Australia to sell its beef to Japan at a low tariff rate up to a set volume.

Similar tariff quotas are also applied to cheese, frozen yogurt and ice cream imports. Moreover, food producers importing cheese and cocoa preparations at low duties are required to use domestically produced ingredients to certain percentages.

Another factor that must not be overlooked is that all the duties imposed on beef imports used to be funneled to the Livestock Department of the farm ministry. Part of this was earmarked for paying big annual remunerations of ¥20 million to retired sub-Cabinet level ministry officials who move onto jobs in the Livestock Industry Promotion Corp. The revenue from beef import duties — which used to amount to ¥100 billion — will drop sharply as a result of the deal with Australia.

Bureaucrats and politicians with vested interests in this area have joined hands with the JA Group and livestock farmers to amplify the fears over the deal’s effect on Japan’s livestock industry. They have already started lobbying to use taxpayer money to pay expenditures for a new measure to protect Japan’s livestock industry.

Agriculture minister Yoshimasa Hayashi has said that his ministry will use the experience gained from the EPA negotiations with Australia in the TPP talks, indicating that his ministry would again resort to tricky tactics like a tariff quota system and requirement that businesses that use imported items also use domestic items.

The TPP talks, the original aim of which was a total abolition of import duties, have already undergone a metamorphosis in terms of their basic nature.

Even if Japan and the U.S. should succeed in resolving their differences, the results would not be a free trade system that gives broad-ranging benefits to people. It is certain that the TPP scheme will be degraded to a system of “nonfree trade” that will increase the involvement and control of bureaucrats while it injects huge subsidies to certain interest groups.

Link

The US should continue to stamp on the agricultural side of the deal. They have a lot to offer here, also to consumers in Japan. I am sick of paying inflated prices.

If there are no concessions from Japan in this area, it is better to block any deal. This has gone on for decades now, and it does not become any better.

Edit: And if Japan insists on levying hundreds of percents of import duties on foreign veggies and meat, the US should do the same with Japanese cars...

[matsuki]

So basically, like so many other things, Japan wants TPP on it's own terms (which render it either pointless or some fucked advantage)...mindset/priorities fucked as usual

if Japan insists on levying hundreds of percents of import duties on foreign veggies and meat, the US should do the same with Japanese cars...

THIS

Even more so now as Hyundai, Samsung, etc are already outgunning what Japan is throwing at the U.S.

[Coligny]

Useless, like VAG, Toyota and consort have factories in the US...
No import, no tax...

[inflames]

In terms of exports, Japan doesn't have much to gain from joining the TPP - most companies gave up exporting on a huge from Japanese factories a while ago.

Businesses in general want to join the TPP because of the effects of not joining - Japan simply becomes another place cut off from the rest of the world.

Consumers have a lot to gain, but they don't realize it.

The only thing of value the US was going to give up from TPP talks was the 25% duty on imported pickup trucks (basically there are no imported pickup trucks in the US).

[IparryU]

Cut them out, put tariffs on cars and electronics, then listen to them bitch and complain until they give in.

Sent from my SC-03E using Tapatalk

[Russell]

No More Japan-U.S. Ministerial Talks on TPP

Japan does not intend to have any more ministerial meeting with the United States on Trans-Pacific Partnership multilateral free trade negotiations, Japanese TPP Minister Akira Amari said Tuesday before a two-day such meeting in Washington.

This coming meeting has to be the final ministerial talks between Japan and the United States on the TPP, Amari told reporters at Narita International Airport near Tokyo before leaving for the U.S. capital, with an envisioned broad TPP agreement among the 12 negotiating countries in November in mind.

Japan hopes to settle political issues in the talks, Amari said. He will meet with U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman.

In their first direct talks since those in Singapore in May, the two sides aim to break the impasse over how to deal with five key farm product categories including beef and pork. Some 30 officials accompany Amari.

A path for solving pending issues will be found where "both sides make an even compromise," Amari said, indicating Japan would make some compromise in step with a similar U.S. move.

Link

Negotiation tactic?!?

LOL.

[matsuki]

Not this again...with less and less farmer/consumers each year, I wonder how long the holdout will last.

[IparryU]

Not this again...with less and less farmer/consumers each year, I wonder how long the holdout will last.

when the food supply goes in the red(er) red.

the population is also decreasing substantially, so that may be in their plan as well.

[Russell]

Japan, U.S. remain apart in trade talks, dealing blow for TPP

Japan and the United States failed to make progress in bilateral talks, both sides said on Wednesday, dealing a blow for hopes of sealing an ambitious multilateral trade deal this year.

“Japan made a flexible proposal, but we weren’t able to make further progress,” Trade Minister Akira Amari told reporters after two days of talks in Washington. “Further negotiations are undecided.”

Amari met with U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman, who last week urged Tokyo to ramp up efforts to break the standoff between the two biggest economies in the 12-country Trans-Pacific Partnership.

Froman’s office said the two sides had had “constructive working-level discussions over the weekend” but that the ministers “were unable to make further progress on the key outstanding issues” of car and farm trade.

“The United States continues to demonstrate a commitment to the level of ambition that all TPP countries agreed to attain when they entered negotiations,” the U.S. side said in a statement.

Participants in the TPP talks aim at a broad agreement by year-end to open up trade around the Pacific, although many observers remain skeptical that the group’s two biggest economies are willing to make the sacrifices needed for a deal.

More

That was quick.

Good on the US not to take any foot dragging by Japan anymore.

[matsuki]

“Japan made a flexible proposal, but we weren’t able to make further progress,” Trade Minister Akira Amari told reporters after two days of talks in Washington. “Further negotiations are undecided.”

Translation: "The JA flexed it's muscle and we weren't able to make any progress."

I'm sure the J-farmers are celebrating this "victory" tonight

[IparryU]

“Japan made a flexible proposal, but we weren’t able to make further progress,” Trade Minister Akira Amari told reporters after two days of talks in Washington. “Further negotiations are undecided.”

Translation: "The JA flexed it's muscle and we weren't able to make any progress."

I'm sure the J-farmers are celebrating this "victory" tonight

Yen weakening, imports will be more expensive because they aren't in the TPP (hopefully this happens), then they do a 180 and get on board and piss off all the farmers and right-wing nutters.

[Wage Slave]

“Japan made a flexible proposal, but we weren’t able to make further progress,” Trade Minister Akira Amari told reporters after two days of talks in Washington. “Further negotiations are undecided.”

Translation: "The JA flexed it's muscle and we weren't able to make any progress."

I'm sure the J-farmers are celebrating this "victory" tonight

Yen weakening, imports will be more expensive because they aren't in the TPP (hopefully this happens), then they do a 180 and get on board and piss off all the farmers and right-wing nutters.

If the Yen weakens then imports will be more expensive regardless of being in the TPP or not. It is proposed as a customs union rather than a currency union or snake. Imports being more expensive will cause no tears for LDP supporters - on the contrary that's exactly why they don't want it. The thought of goods, including food, being imported without tariffs and a wide range of non-tariff barriers is terrifying.

[IparryU]

“Japan made a flexible proposal, but we weren’t able to make further progress,” Trade Minister Akira Amari told reporters after two days of talks in Washington. “Further negotiations are undecided.”

Translation: "The JA flexed it's muscle and we weren't able to make any progress."

I'm sure the J-farmers are celebrating this "victory" tonight

Yen weakening, imports will be more expensive because they aren't in the TPP (hopefully this happens), then they do a 180 and get on board and piss off all the farmers and right-wing nutters.

If the Yen weakens then imports will be more expensive regardless of being in the TPP or not. It is proposed as a customs union rather than a currency union or snake. Imports being more expensive will cause no tears for LDP supporters - on the contrary that's exactly why they don't want it. The thought of goods, including food, being imported without tariffs and a wide range of non-tariff barriers is terrifying.

I meant expensive due to markups for non TPP members, like a punishment for fucking about so long.

I'll give an update to my statement when i am at a computer without 2 Devils running around...

[Wage Slave]

“Japan made a flexible proposal, but we weren’t able to make further progress,” Trade Minister Akira Amari told reporters after two days of talks in Washington. “Further negotiations are undecided.”

Translation: "The JA flexed it's muscle and we weren't able to make any progress."

I'm sure the J-farmers are celebrating this "victory" tonight

Yen weakening, imports will be more expensive because they aren't in the TPP (hopefully this happens), then they do a 180 and get on board and piss off all the farmers and right-wing nutters.

If the Yen weakens then imports will be more expensive regardless of being in the TPP or not. It is proposed as a customs union rather than a currency union or snake. Imports being more expensive will cause no tears for LDP supporters - on the contrary that's exactly why they don't want it. The thought of goods, including food, being imported without tariffs and a wide range of non-tariff barriers is terrifying.

I meant expensive due to markups for non TPP members, like a punishment for fucking about so long.

Perhaps I'm being a bit thick but the prospective TPP members want exactly the opposite. They want their goods and services imported into Japan without any extra costs added. The last thing they would do would be to add a markup as a kind of punishment. That would be a proverbial own goal.

[Russell]

Japan, U.S. blame each other for snag in TPP talks

U.S.-Japan trade talks hit a rough patch last week with both sides blaming the other for a stalemate over farm exports, a major hurdle in concluding an ambitious 12-nation trade pact.

Bilateral talks between U.S. Trade Representative Michael Froman and Japanese Economy Minister Akira Amari in Washington broke up midway through the second day.

A Japanese government source said U.S. negotiators staged a “hostage-taking” by suddenly threatening not to lift tariffs on Japanese auto parts unless Tokyo met U.S. demands on agriculture.

But a U.S. official familiar with the talks, seen as key to finalizing the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) spanning a third of world trade, said negotiators acted in response to a comprehensively weak offer from Japan on farm goods.

“They have the key here. They improve their agriculture offer, we’ll improve our industrial offer,” the U.S. official said, without confirming details of what was laid on the table.

A second U.S. official said the Japanese delegation “walked out” of the talks, a charge the Japanese source denied.

Japan wants to protect sensitive goods, including beef, pork, rice and dairy, which are important to its farming sector. But with U.S. midterm elections looming, many U.S. farmers and lawmakers have warned against a deal that does not significantly open Japan’s markets and say Japan should be cut out of the talks if it does not give ground.

U.S. pork producers cheered Washington’s firm stance. “The Japanese have been, and continue to be, holding up the entire negotiation. They’ve got to fish or cut bait,” National Pork Producers Council Vice President Nick Giordano said.

U.S. President Barack Obama has said he hopes to have a TPP agreement by year-end. But many observers remain skeptical that the group’s two biggest economies can make the compromises needed, and other TPP partners are reluctant to commit to final offers until they see how the two resolve their differences.

A Japanese government source well-informed about the bilateral talks said Japan went into them prepared to do a deal and having “prepared a position that showed flexibility,” but that the United States was not prepared to engage.

“There will have to come a time that the U.S. realizes that unless they are flexible, they will not have a package, or else they (negotiations) may continue for an indefinite time,” he said.

Japan’s Nikkei business daily said Japan considered slashing beef import tariffs from 38.5% to below 20%, a level U.S. negotiators have said is unacceptable.

The U.S. official said Japan’s offer did not cut tariffs to zero, the original goal, on a significant number of goods and included rules allowing higher tariffs to be reimposed if imports rise to a certain level.

More

We'll have to wait a bit more for our cheap veggies...

[matsuki]

Perhaps I'm being a bit thick but the prospective TPP members want exactly the opposite. They want their goods and services imported into Japan without any extra costs added. The last thing they would do would be to add a markup as a kind of punishment. That would be a proverbial own goal.

I think all he means they they are effectively penalizing themselves by not benefiting from the TPP.

A Japanese government source well-informed about the bilateral talks said Japan went into them prepared to do a deal and having “prepared a position that showed flexibility,” but that the United States was not prepared to engage.

“There will have to come a time that the U.S. realizes that unless they are flexible, they will not have a package, or else they (negotiations) may continue for an indefinite time,” he said.

Japan’s Nikkei business daily said Japan considered slashing beef import tariffs from 38.5% to below 20%, a level U.S. negotiators have said is unacceptable.

The U.S. official said Japan’s offer did not cut tariffs to zero, the original goal, on a significant number of goods and included rules allowing higher tariffs to be reimposed if imports rise to a certain level.

Flexibility to ignore the original intent and then go back on the agreement if too successful?

[wagyl]

Choko I am not entirely sure of your position on this but I am prepared to bet that in these discussions there is not one side with a completely white hat and the other side with a completely black hat. Each is out to manoeuvre for what they think is best for them. In these negotiations, sometimes what both sides think is best for themselves matches, at other times a compromise is possible, and in the remainder of the cases not. There may be arguments that some compromise is better than throwing the whole deal out, but in this case it seems that any compromise offered didn't bridge the gap.

[IparryU]

Choko I am not entirely sure of your position on this but I am prepared to bet that in these discussions there is not one side with a completely white hat and the other side with a completely black hat. Each is out to manoeuvre for what they think is best for them. In these negotiations, sometimes what both sides think is best for themselves matches, at other times a compromise is possible, and in the remainder of the cases not. There may be arguments that some compromise is better than throwing the whole deal out, but in this case it seems that any compromise offered didn't bridge the gap.

:this:

very true. The US wants what is best for their market and likewise with Japan. But the whole part of the deal is to zero out tariffs. Japan says its farmers will go bust... and by all means let them and another local party will benefit from it and make more money. Many of these farmers (like a lot of farmers in the US as well) get a good amount of money to keep their farms going.

Bitch, whine and complain about families losing a business that has been going for decades on end, but that happens with every family/company/thing. Sounds cold, but subsidizing them just to keep them afloat is a bit pointless IMO.

[matsuki]

Choko I am not entirely sure of your position on this but I am prepared to bet that in these discussions there is not one side with a completely white hat and the other side with a completely black hat. Each is out to manoeuvre for what they think is best for them. In these negotiations, sometimes what both sides think is best for themselves matches, at other times a compromise is possible, and in the remainder of the cases not. There may be arguments that some compromise is better than throwing the whole deal out, but in this case it seems that any compromise offered didn't bridge the gap.

My position is "Japan is being difficult again." Saying "flexible" doesn't mean too much if what they are offering is anything but.

The TPP isn't just between the US and Japan and the whole point of it is to reduce/eliminate trade barriers. While Japan isn't the only country that's often unreasonable when it comes to this, it's certainly coming to the table loaded down with undeniably powerful domestic demands for certain markets that make reaching reasonable agreements in those areas impossible. It's also hard to ignore Japan's history of non-tariff protectionism when it comes to reading into their approach to these discussions.

[wagyl]

Reading news related to discussions other than just those between US and Japan, I get the feeling that the US is being a difficult and insistent negotiator across the board, too. Lots of grey hats all over the place.
http://theconversation.com/pacific-trad ... asia-25928

[matsuki]

Reading news related to discussions other than just those between US and Japan, I get the feeling that the US is being a difficult and insistent negotiator across the board, too. Lots of grey hats all over the place.
http://theconversation.com/pacific-trad ... asia-25928

That sucks, but to be clearer, I'm not trying to defend the US in this situation either. I'd just like to see it happen. The TPP would ideally benefit everyone involved an since China is on board, it would be another kit to their nuts as well.

Certainly there is no real sign that the US has much room to manoeuvre on a number of key provisions. It will have great difficulty giving up on protection of its sugar and textile industries. Neither Hollywood nor the pharmaceutical industries will allow intellectual property rights provisions to be watered down. And US corporations are unlikely to favour excluding the ISDS mechanism from the TPP.

Sugar and textile can get fucked but IP rights don't really belong in the discussion.

[inflames]

I stopped reading that article when they mentioned the part about textiles as that part shows the author has no idea whatever he is talking about - the textiles industry in the US was basically decimated in the 1990s because of trade (first from Mexico, then Central America, now from all over the world) - very few clothes are actually produced in the US.

[wagyl]

I stopped reading that article when they mentioned the part about textiles as that part shows the author has no idea whatever he is talking about - the textiles industry in the US was basically decimated in the 1990s because of trade (first from Mexico, then Central America, now from all over the world) - very few clothes are actually produced in the US.

I thought there was still the "ship Chinese peasant daughters out to Guam and keep them locked up in a compound hunched over their Singers, for the purpose of the domestic-market desirable 'Made in USA' label" industry. There is also something in the article detailing yarn, rather than finished fabrics, which was causing a problem with Vietnam and its supplies from China.

[matsuki]

I stopped reading that article when they mentioned the part about textiles as that part shows the author has no idea whatever he is talking about - the textiles industry in the US was basically decimated in the 1990s because of trade (first from Mexico, then Central America, now from all over the world) - very few clothes are actually produced in the US.

I thought there was still the "ship Chinese peasant daughters out to Guam and keep them locked up in a compound hunched over their Singers, for the purpose of the domestic-market desirable 'Made in USA' label" industry. There is also something in the article detailing yarn, rather than finished fabrics, which was causing a problem with Vietnam and its supplies from China.

Psst

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Apparel

[inflames]

I stopped reading that article when they mentioned the part about textiles as that part shows the author has no idea whatever he is talking about - the textiles industry in the US was basically decimated in the 1990s because of trade (first from Mexico, then Central America, now from all over the world) - very few clothes are actually produced in the US.

I thought there was still the "ship Chinese peasant daughters out to Guam and keep them locked up in a compound hunched over their Singers, for the purpose of the domestic-market desirable 'Made in USA' label" industry. There is also something in the article detailing yarn, rather than finished fabrics, which was causing a problem with Vietnam and its supplies from China.

Got phased out in the last 5 or 10 years.

American Apparel is a bit interesting, and not just because of their former CEO but they don't produce much - a drop in the bucket.

At least in the US we can get cheap cotton and leather products - here all the cheap stuff is synthetic that feels and looks awful. Christ, I pay as much for cheap pleather shoes here as I would for cheap leather shoes in the US.

[matsuki]

Sorta on topic but I went to a UNIQLO in the US last month...I predict bankruptcy in 5..4..3..2..

The prices are pretty offensive (for lack of a better term) for it to survive over there. The store had more staff than customers in an otherwise crowded mall (weekend)

[wagyl]

The prices are pretty offensive (for lack of a better term)

Can I suggest the terms "high" or "low" so that I can understand what you are trying to say?

I think you might mean "high" but, to be frank, if I could only avoid an electric shock to the testicles by giving the correct answer, I would be sweating through lack of confidence.

[matsuki]

How about "offensively high." As in, higher than the Japanese prices, which, depending on the item, is already unreasonably high.

[wagyl]

How about "offensively high."

That will do nicely, sir. Will that be a one off payment, or revolving credit?

My testicles join me is giving you thanks.