[Crispy]

Doesn't know much about WWII? "Such a long time ago" relative to Japan's whole history? Man, Japanese college students just aren't learning what they should. Besides, don't they have parents and grandparents to tell them about it? Or do they really honestly not care about even recent history?

[gaijinzilla]

Ah August in Japan....talk of World War II signifies that summer is in full swing However if you live in Okinawa then this talk of World War II begins in April (when thee US forces landed back in 1945) and intensifies in June, culminating on June 23rd (when the battle of Okinawa ended). To be truthful though World War II is never far from those who live onOkinawa as evry now and then unexploded shells from 50 odd years ago are stiil uncovered at construction sights around the island (keeps the boys at the Japanese Self Defense Forces busy). How do I know? Gaijinzilla lives on Okinawa and last summer our neighbourhood got sealed off because they found an unexploded bomb (it was rather big, but I don't remember the size)---US shell, as they always seem to be, at least acording to the media--- about 2 km from where we live. Our neighbourhood didn't get evacuated, but the main access roads were closed off for a better part of the day. Thing was though that had I not ventured out for a walk I wouldn't have found out about the "bomb". I got told by a copper that I couldn't cross the street. stupidly I said "Where's the parade?" No parade -- they found a bomb. Oh. So I turned around and went home. Spent the rest of the day aat home. There was no mention of this on the radio or TV (as in public service announcement or something to that effect) UNTIL the evening news when the bomb had been successfully taken away and detonated in the sea!
Another time some guy brought in an unexploded shell into the Kencho (he worked there). He found it lying around outside somewhere and brought it into work for Show & Tell
"Hey look what I found?"
"er Kenji THAT'S an unexploded shell!!
"Ah so desu ne."
CIVIL SERVANTs... go figure!
The thing about university kids (in japan) is that they (for the most part..like 90 percent of them!!) don't seem to care much about anything other that their keitai denwa. I teach part-time at a university and i wonder when I was in my 20s was I so stupid? as an example every year I get students (4th years)---who have never shown up to my class at all although they are registered in it, haven't taken the exams--come up to me a week before graduation pleading to let me pass them or they can't graduate. [The university has a policy about attendance that every student knows --The One-Third Rule: you have to attend at least 1/3 of a particular class or else you can't take the fina exam in that class. ]They usually get read the proverbial riot act! I mean if they were sick, on their death bed maybe arrangements can be made. I should start accepting bribes!!
Once I even got a phone call at home from one student abotu the failing grade on her test:
STUDENT:"Sensei, why did you fail me? Now I can't graduate! I have to come back next year to take just your class!"
ME: "Well, let me see. Ah, yes. You DIDN'T answer ANY of the questions on the test." [the first time I ever gave a 0 on a written test to someone who showed up for the exam]
STUDENT: CLICK. Signal goes dead.
However I have a sneaky suspicion (can ther be any other kind?!?!) that someone (office worker or a professor, or both) has changed a few failures, that I have handed out, into passing grades. Unfortunately I have no hard evidence, it's just a hunch.
Opps I've gone on a rant here Sorry

[Crispy]

Well, even among the polisci and foreign relations members of the japanese exchange students at my school, I see a complete lack of interest in politics, and slacking off relating to school on a level I have never seen before. For instance, a friend of mine was given the assignment of going to one day...one friggin' hour session of one class and writing a summary of it for one of her classes. She came to me and asked to borrow the notes for that day. Missing one session out of a semester of session is one thing, but missing one out of one session? man, they really just don't care.

[cstaylor]

She came to me and asked to borrow the notes for that day

So, did you give her the notes, and what was the payment?

[Crispy]

Yeah, I gave her the notes, because at the time I thought she had a good reason for missing that class. I didn't ask for anything in return, and honestly I didn't want any sexual favors from this particular person. I guess I'm just picky...

[Crispy]

The number of victims from the atomic bombing of the city totaled 226,870 as of Monday. The blast and its aftereffects killed an estimated 140,000 people by the end of 1945.

I still just have a hard time accepting that my country killed that many civilians (and we killed so many more than that in the firebombings, too). It's really...embarassing. Not so much that we were horrid enough to do it, more that we couldn't think of another solution (i.e. somewhere else to show Russia the power of atomic weaponry).

Anyway, one of my former ryuugakusei friends reported that she went to Hiroshima to the memorial, and expected that to be the one place that she would get a few sideways glances. Instead, everyone was delighted to see her and kids asked for her FUCKING AUTOGRAPH.

Man, Japan is a weird place.

[cstaylor]

Not so much that we were horrid enough to do it, more that we couldn't think of another solution (i.e. somewhere else to show Russia the power of atomic weaponry)

Go watch the movie "Hiroshima" if you haven't already... it goes into a lot of detail about why America dropped the bomb ("impressing the Soviet" is one of many reasons). Here's the summary:
- Extrapolating from the invasion of Okinawa, the estimated American casualties would exceed 200,000, Japanese (including civilians pressed into combat roles) would exceed 1,000,000
- Japanese weather in August would complicate landing forces, requiring an additional two months of preparation. Two months of no food would mean starving the Japanese people already stretched by low-altitude saturation bombing
- Russia agreed to join the Pacific War against Japan in Postsdam, first against the Kwangtung Japanese army on the mainland, followed by an invasion of Northern Hokkaido. The Japanese command were still negotiating with the Soviet for peace brokering or for oil, depending on the faction in question and were not prepared for a northern assault. If successful, Japan would have been split into a North and South zone, possibly divided in the Kansai area (the Russians didn't have as far to go as the Americans)
- Even after horrifying casualties from the fire boming of Tokyo, it was clear that the Japanese command would not surrender without major concessions (from what I've read, most of the Japanese people were ready to throw in the towel by that time except that they believed the Americans would visit upon them what they had done to those who had faced Japanese occupation)
- America had a very inexperienced President (Roosevelt had not used Truman in any way during the first months in office, and this was Truman's first term as Vice President) who did not want the (estimated) lives of 200,000 Americans on his head.

[cstaylor]

POINT OF VIEW:Peace philosophy needs historical awareness

Needless to say, the dropping of the atomic bomb should not be considered just retribution for Japanese behavior, based on the logic that Japan got what it deserved for invading Asia. Nevertheless, many people in the United States, China and other Asian countries still firmly believe that the dropping of the bombs was right

How about "we want to end this war, and we want to end it now"?

Since the 1990s, a series of developments has complicated the matter further-for instance, the Smithsonian A-bomb exhibition in the United States

The Smithsonian is a history museum, the atomic bomb is a part of American history, Q.E.D.

China's use of history as a diplomatic card to play against Japan

U.S. and Chinese resistance to acknowledging the A-bomb Dome as a World Heritage site

Well, include Pearl Harbor and Nanking and I think both countries will be happy.

[gaijinzilla]

why is it every discussion about WWII & the A-bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki has to bring out the words "Pearl Harbor". You can't equate these events for several reasons: Pearl harbor was a military base and even though it was a "surprise " attack it was a military base (although I wonder IF the Americans had initiated a "sneak attack" would there be talk of "treacherous Americans" today or would it be hailed as a coup of military genius?). Hiroshima & Nagasaki were not (although Hiroshima was targeted because of its industrial base), BUT the japanese government was told in advance of what was going to happen (which brings up the point, after the first bomb, why didn't the Japanese government surrender intead of waitng for the second one to be dropped?) I'm not trying to say that the US was wrong to bomb these two Japanese cities therefore the Japanese have a right to feel victimized (they don't because of the atrocities that were done in China & other parts of Asia). My point is don't talk about Pearl Harbor & Hiroshima in the same breath; the bombing of London (or Coventry) by nazi germany, the Rape of Nanking, yes; Pearl, no.
I also think people tend to gloss over the idea that racism (on both sides) played a big role in the War in th Pacific. Also, whereas the war in Europe was one of liberation (countries trying to reclaim their sovreignty from the Nazis & those ding dong Italian fascists), the war in the pacific was one of reclamation (the Allies trying to get their colonies back from the Japanese--who were trying to expand their own empire. I can't believe people still fell for that Greater Asian Prosperity crap & still do!!)
Try explaining this to someone who is Japanese and see the looks you get.

[cstaylor]

why is it every discussion about WWII & the A-bombing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki has to bring out the words "Pearl Harbor".

A little out of context... I was referring to the World Heritage status for Hiroshima and America's stance against it.

[MachineHead]

I can't understand how the new generations dont give a f*ck about what happened not even 50 years ago.....i mean that's something you dont forget easely.Even if you din't live it....226,870 people dying in a couple of seconds and 140,000 afterwards..those are some heavy memories.There's no need to develop any hate againts the American poeple about what happened....i mean i guess any country whit the atomic bomb would have done the same thing to another enemy country.It's just a question of hunger of power that's what it's always been...and i think it will continue like that.Unless poeple are inform why we let those things happen....history will repeat itself.If we keep looking into our TV's we wont get the reel facts or reasons....even media is controled and censored.Ignorance is the main enemy in this world....

http://www.projectcensored.org/

[gaijinzilla]

cs taylor: sorry if my rant seemed aimed at you (or what you posted)..it wasn't

[cstaylor]

No worries.

[cstaylor]

...and Japan would have used what in exchange for the complete lack of natural Uranium resources? A plan is only a plan unless they can go forward with it, and they couldn't even secure enough diesel to keep the fleet afloat in the last couple of years of the war.

I'm not sure where all of this "justify the use of the nuclear bomb" has come from... it was a war, and a lot of people died regardless of circumstances. Showa Tenno said it himself in the late 1970's when he gave a brief press conference after visiting the United States, "it was regrettable, but it was a war".

[cstaylor]

I've never heard of it before (probably why the guy kept it quiet until after his death), but I don't think the Japanese had a chance in hell for producing a nuclear bomb after 1943.

[cstaylor]

If it's the one by William Manchester, it should be "American Caeser"

[gaijinzilla]

I had heard about Japan & its version of the bomb (or the attempts to make one) when I was a university student (what seems an eternity ago)---my major was Japanese history-- however there was no data available to prove what only appeared to be some sort of urban legend regarding WWII.
However when I moved to Japan, one night I watched a Japanese movie about the Imperial Army's (or was it Navy--or both) attempt to get the technology from the Germans in the waning days of the war, just prior to Hiroshima. however on the UBoat ride back home: 1) the bomb is exploded over Hiroshima & 2)the UBoat never makes it to Japan, presumably sunk. I believe that this film was one of those little bit of fact mixed with a lot of fiction (there was a U-Boat on the way to Japan in 1945, that did sink , which did have some Japanese officers on board, but nobody is sure what they were doing or what they were carrying).
Another thing I heard (while at uni) was that the Japanese were trying to develop an atomic bomb that could be shot from a sub, in the form of a torpedo. Again no proof to back up the claims.

[cstaylor]

You'll like the book... Manchester is a great writer. You really get a sense of the MacArthur's grasp on some subjects, and his complete lack of understanding on others (he was very poor at managing politics, but good at manipulating people).

He was a chronic paranoid, and often alienated his most powerful admirers (both Marshall and Truman were fans until MacArthur turned on them). Very colorful personality... really should have been an actor instead of a general...