Japanese Cartoon "Insults Islam"

[ttjereth]

I agree. However if we limit our scope to the current situation, it is muslims that are creating a terrible lot of problems. I live in Denmark, and the amount of crap I have heard here from people regarding those cartoons of the prophet is amazing. Even though we have had leaders of the islamic community travelling to the middle east and Pakistan blatantly lying, to gather a political movement against free speech, embassies have been attacked, people have had demonstrations against free speech here in Denmark, and what not. Politically correct leftleaning fuckers keep protecting them, probably because they are afraid to be called racist if they criticise immigrants. The crusades were bad, but these days at least I won't get death threats from christians for drawing a cartoon of Jesus boning Mary while God is watching and having a wank.

Mind you, I'm not trying to defend Islamic extremists or anything here, but since we all of the sudden had the Christians jump in with the "see, they're much worse than us!" crap, I just figured I'd point out that the problem isn't Islam, or any other religion in particular, it's the type of whackjobs who either use the religion as an excuse for their horrendous actions or, god help us (hah!), actually think what they are doing is positive for their religion.

As for the whole death threats thing, I'm not sure what things are like in Denmark, but there are plenty of places in the states where you can get all sorts of fun comments about anything considered sacriligeous.

Religious fanatics get angry, and oftentime violent over the stupidest of things, regardless of denomination.
http://www.theresistancemanifesto.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=91

[hundefar]

Mind you, I'm not trying to defend Islamic extremists or anything here, but since we all of the sudden had the Christians jump in with the "see, they're much worse than us!" crap, I just figured I'd point out that the problem isn't Islam, or any other religion in particular, it's the type of whackjobs who either use the religion as an excuse for their horrendous actions or, god help us (hah!), actually think what they are doing is positive for their religion.

As for the whole death threats thing, I'm not sure what things are like in Denmark, but there are plenty of places in the states where you can get all sorts of fun comments about anything considered sacriligeous.

Religious fanatics get angry, and oftentime violent over the stupidest of things, regardless of denomination.
http://www.theresistancemanifesto.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=91

Starbucks? Hehe, yeah you can get your fringe wackos in Christianity too. My point is that currently violent currents are powerful within Islam, whereas they are rather weak within Christianity, especially in Europe. So at the moment I would consider muslim wackos a much bigger threat than Christian ones.

[ttjereth]

Word.

The whole "playing catch up" argument is bullshit too. The actions of the Crusaders were typical of an invading army at that time. You can't really judge them by modern standards. It's now the 21st century and people have access to information in a way that they didn't before. They aren't playing catch up. They're ingnoring 1000 years of progress and choosing to be barbaric assholes.

You might want to read that Wikipedia article as well. The crusader's actions were typical of Christian armies, not all armies.

For the first decade, the Crusaders pursed a policy of terror against Muslims and Jews that included mass executions, the throwing of severed heads over besieged cities walls, exhibition and mutilation of naked cadavers, and even cannibalism, as was recorded after the Siege of Maarat.

Nearly everytime the crusaders took Jerusalem, they slaughtered the civilians, man, woman and child. The muslims didn't when they took it back.

If you absolutely need a modern reference, look at the whole thing in Afghanistan and Iraq and compare the number of civilians dead there to the number of dead Americans from terrorist incidents.

I'm not supporting terrorists or anything here, but the whole Christian "our shit don't stink" nonsense is what's bullshit. Muslim extremists/zealots/"fundamentalists" = assholes, Christian extremists/zealots/"fundamentalists" = assholes and the whole who did worse and when arguement is irrelevant, they ALL need to stop being assholes.

[ttjereth]

Starbucks? Hehe, yeah you can get your fringe wackos in Christianity too. My point is that currently violent currents are powerful within Islam, whereas they are rather weak within Christianity, especially in Europe. So at the moment I would consider muslim wackos a much bigger threat than Christian ones.

Yep, Starbucks. Good thing we have them to save us from boobies.


I do understand what you're saying, and I do mostly agree.

But all religious zealots scare me and I think they're all potentially dangerous.

What I am saying is that I don't buy into the whole Christians are somehow morally superior than other religions spiel, and you can find enough Christian wackos ranting and raving about how all the muslims need to be killed or all the gays need to be killed that I don't have the faith (ho ho) that a lot of our Christian wingnuts would behave any better in slightly altered circumstances (like for example, living in poverty in a country who hasn't had access to a lot of the last 1000 years of progress and whose fate is largely decided by other nations consisting of a lot of people of a different religion which considers yours wrong/barbaric/whatever).

We can skew all the numbers, twist facts and qualify and disqualify things however we want to suit our own personal opinions and agendas (e.g. WWI mostly fought by Christians/Christian nations, Christianity played a very large part in wiping out native populations in the U.S. and around the world, etc. etc.) but none of it changes the fact I'd be just as uncomfortable living next door to some wackjob Christian fundamentalist as I would some Muslism who thinks America is the great satan. They all have that same amazing ability to somehow manage to justify and rationalize what they do in the name of their religion (or to use their religion as an excuse for doing what they want anyway).

[Buraku]

those fucking Islams are way too sensitive about everything. Fuck'm.

The come from an area of the planet where education is a luxury and the people are dominated by poverty, religious extremism and war.

Not excusing their behavior but there is a reason so many act like a bunch of fucking extremist idiots

[ttjereth]

By the way: Mohammad preached the need to kill "idol worshippers" (and Mohammadans are still doing just that in India, Bangladesh, and Thailand today). Did the Buddha or Jesus ever exhort followers to kill non-believers?

Catone, you know I love you, but, the bible is chock full of places where people are commanded to kill people or people are killed for everything from non-belief to refusing to punch a prophet.

I'm well aware of the whole "but that was all the old testament and Jesus freed us from the old law" arguments (esp. Epistle to the Galatians), but all the new testament does is switch from saying to kill non-believers directly, to thinly veiled parapbles, and lots of threats about damnation, fire, disease and horrible death/suffering for not believing, ordering they be shunned, and calling them a variety of things from vipers and unclean to already dead. On top of which there is still a ragin debate within the Christian community about whether Jesus changed the moral law or not.

You can't selectively choose bits from the Koran or Islam and point out how they are bad but then qualify everything in the bible by saying it isn't observed anymore or isn't observed literally.

The problem in both cases isn't the content of the religions, or the two books, but the ways in which they are understood/applied. I've met plenty of Christians who haven't actually read the bible and believe a lot of things about Christianity that don't stem from scripture or misinterpret/twist things that do, and beleive it or not it's the same deal with Muslims. The problem being, obviously, that there are a lot more Muslims acting out on the "kill non-believers" spiel than Christians, I wouldn't put any money on which one has the highest number of people who actually believe it but don't act on it though.

I've met plenty of Christians who still think gays deserve death despite Jesus' proclamation that only those without sin are fit to judge (i.e. only Jesus) and his subsequent forgiveness of sinners.

I'm not sure if you've read it or not (I've read the bible and the ko and found them both to have about the same degree of some good ideas and a whole bunch of fruitcakey nonsense) but a lot of the "islam teaches to kill blah blah blah" things bandied about are severely taken out of context and generally no worse than anything you can find in the bible, and in fact the koran specifically forbids violence without provocation and doesn't consider Christians and Jews "infidels" or non-believers (kuffar or kifar) but has them in a special category (Ahl al-Kitab) of their own, which right away puts the kibash on the whole "Islam teaches to kill Christians" thing (since Islam considers the god of Islam to be the same as the god of Judaism and Christianity).

"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah (God) and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord]

Quran[5:87]:O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors.
Quran[2:190]:You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors.

The bold section below is often quoted as the "kill non-believers" passage of the Koran, but reading the whole things makes things quite a bit different, saying that hostilities should be stopped and enemies forgiven if they cease to attack/fight you.

"And fight in the cause of Allah with those who fight with you, and do not exceed the limits, surely Allah does not love those who exceed the limits. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from where they drove you out and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the reward of the unbelievers. But if they desist, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors." (Qur'an, 2:190-192)

Some not quite so forgiving examples from the bible (admittedly mostly the OT) for any of our would be Christians on board who've never actually cracked a bible outside the occassionaly sunday service.


Deuteronomy 17

17:2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deut%2017:2-7;%2029:18&version=49

Deuteronomy 17:12

"The man who acts (A)presumptuously by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, nor to the judge, that man shall die; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.

Exodus 22

20"(M)He who sacrifices to any god, other than to the LORD alone, shall be utterly destroyed.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=22&version=49

2 Chronicles 15

12(O)They entered into the covenant to seek the LORD God of their fathers with all their heart and soul;

13and whoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel (P)should be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=14&chapter=15&version=49

Deuteronomy 13

12"If you hear in one of your cities, which the LORD your God is giving you to live in, anyone saying that

13some worthless men have gone out from among you and have seduced the inhabitants of their city, saying, '(R)Let us go and serve other gods' (whom you have not known),

14then you shall investigate and search out and inquire thoroughly. If it is true and the matter established that this abomination has been done among you,

15(S)you shall surely strike the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying it and all that is in it and its cattle with the edge of the sword.

16"(T)Then you shall gather all its booty into the middle of its open square and burn the city and all its booty with fire as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God; and it shall be a (U)ruin forever. It shall never be rebuilt.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=5&chapter=13&version=49
(Deuteronomy 13 is mostly about killing non-believers)

[ttjereth]

Continued from previous post (13,000 characters is probably a new forum post record for me heh)


A little new testament too:
Ostracize non-believers:
2 John 1

7For (Q)many deceivers have (R)gone out into the world, those who (S)do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh This is (T)the deceiver and the (U)antichrist.

8(V)Watch yourselves, (W)that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.

9Anyone who goes too far and (X)does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, (Y)do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting;

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=70&chapter=1&version=49

Romans 16:17

17Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances (A)contrary to the teaching which you learned, and (B)turn away from them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2016:17;&version=49;

Interesting parables from the mouth of Jesus:
Luke 19

Parable of Money Usage
11While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because (H)He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that (I)the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.

12So He said, "(J)A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return.

13"And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten [a]minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.'

14"But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.'

15"When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done.

16"The first appeared, saying, 'Master, your mina has made ten minas more.'

17"And he said to him, 'Well done, good slave, because you have been (K)faithful in a very little thing, you are to be in authority over ten cities.'

18"The second came, saying, 'Your mina, master, has made five minas.'

19"And he said to him also, 'And you are to be over five cities.'

20"Another came, saying, 'Master, here is your mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief;

21for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man; you take up what you did not lay down and reap what you did not sow.'

22"He said to him, 'By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down and reaping what I did not sow?

23'Then why did you not put my money in the bank, and having come, I would have collected it with interest?'

24"Then he said to the bystanders, 'Take the mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten minas.'

25"And they said to him, 'Master, he has ten minas already.'

26"(L)I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away.

27"But (M)these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and (N)slay them in my presence."

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2019;&version=49;


Gays
Romans 1

24Therefore (AR)God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be (AS)dishonored among them.

25For they exchanged the truth of God for a (AT)lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, (AU)who is blessed forever. Amen.

26For this reason (AV)God gave them over to (AW)degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, (AX)men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, (AY)God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are (AZ)gossips,

30slanderers, (BA)haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, (BB)disobedient to parents,

31without understanding, untrustworthy, (BC)unloving, unmerciful;

32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also (BE)give hearty approval to those who practice them.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%201;&version=49;


How literal people take things and how they apply them is always the main factor and the whole "fuck all the muslims" etc. attidue prevailing here is no more helpful or justified than people ranting about sacrilege in a comic book.


BTW Greji, you're in trouble:
Exodus 22:19

19"(A)Whoever lies with an animal shall surely be put to death.
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2022:19;&version=49;

[Socratesabroad]

You might want to read that Wikipedia article on the crusades.

I'm a lover of history, but surely you can't be serious. The last of the Crusades finished some 800 years ago and the Inquisition and witch trials hit their peak in the mid 1500s to late 1600s. Given that separation of church and state is a basic tenet of much modern government and that the Catholic Church has done some serious soul-searching over its role, none of these phenomena are returning any time soon regardless of what paranoid delusions some might have.
In stark contrast, a Muslim bomber struck as recently as yesterday

A Muslim convert with a history of mental illness was being held under armed guard tonight after he apparently detonated a nail bomb in a family restaurant.

Nicky Reilly, 22, who suffered serious facial injuries in the blast, is thought to have carried out the alleged attack after being 'preyed upon and radicalised' by Islamic extremists.

Bomb parts blah blah, all over-zealous religious lugnuts are all in the same boat as far as I'm concerned, doesn't particularly matter what mythology they subscribe to. And the whole "they're worse than us" crap trying to qualify or play down the bad things your own group has done is crap. Bad is bad.

Enough with the moral equivocations. The fact is that the religious nuts responsible for the Crusades, Inquisition, and witch trials have been dead for hundreds of years while the radical Muslims exist and are wreaking havoc today, so if you truly despise "over-zealous religious lugnuts" you should be among the first to condemn the Islamic extremists. Not because they're more or less evil than their Christian counterparts, but simply because the Muslim nuts are here today.

[GuyJean]

.. Not because they're more or less evil than their Christian counterparts, but simply because the Muslim nuts are here today.

I keep forgetting George Bush is Muslim..

GJ

[Behan]

Anyone have any ideas for captions for the bottom pic?

[Catoneinutica]

Anyone have any ideas for captions for the bottom pic?

Captioned like one of those motivational posters:
"HYPOCRACY: When you claim to be leading a "War on Terror" and then hold hands - even share your stash of booze and blow - with the King of the number-one financer of terrorism."

[Catoneinutica]

Again, I'll answer my lame rhetorical questions above:

Did the Buddha and Jesus advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

No, they advocated peace.

Did the Mad Ham Slammer advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

Oh, mais oui! Indeed, members of the Religion of Piss (tm) are killing Hindus in India and Buddhists in Thailand on a regular basis even now. Some Christians have apparently gotten their knickers in a twist over a Starbucks logo. Get back to me when they kill someone over it - perhaps slit the throadt and then stick a warning letter to the body with the knife, like that Jizzlamaniac did to Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands.

Like I said, get back to me when it happens.

[Takechanpoo]

Whatever you European dudes fabricate history, Europe is nothing but a son of Arab. This is why evil Euro-American dudes eagerly have pressed down Arab countries not to thrive.

[ttjereth]

I'm a lover of history, but surely you can't be serious. The last of the Crusades finished some 800 years ago and the Inquisition and witch trials hit their peak in the mid 1500s to late 1600s. Given that separation of church and state is a basic tenet of much modern government and that the Catholic Church has done some serious soul-searching over its role, none of these phenomena are returning any time soon regardless of what paranoid delusions some might have.
In stark contrast, a Muslim bomber struck as recently as yesterday


Enough with the moral equivocations. The fact is that the religious nuts responsible for the Crusades, Inquisition, and witch trials have been dead for hundreds of years while the radical Muslims exist and are wreaking havoc today, so if you truly despise "over-zealous religious lugnuts" you should be among the first to condemn the Islamic extremists. Not because they're more or less evil than their Christian counterparts, but simply because the Muslim nuts are here today.

I'm not defending muslim extremeists, I'm condeming the Christians like yourself whose first reaction is to always jump in with the "see they are so much worse than us" perspective and always seem to manage to equate Islam with terrorism but always manage to separate themselves from the atrocities commited in the name of their own religion.

[baka tono]

I think most problems are caused by religions with laws against alcohol, or in the case of Catholics lack of alcohol. This reminds me of one of the greatest tragedies of recent history prohibition and who did that? Crazy Protestants who probably edited out all the parts in the bible where Jesus made wine, drank wine etc. As you can see I am a firm believer in beer and think Muslims need to hear more of my preaching

[Jack]

I'm not defending muslim extremeists, I'm condeming the Christians like yourself whose first reaction is to always jump in with the "see they are so much worse than us" perspective ...

This has been my observation on this Forum from day one with regards to the behaviour of "white English speaking people" versus the Japanese or just about anyone not "white English speaking".

[ttjereth]

Again, I'll answer my lame rhetorical questions above:

Did the Buddha and Jesus advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

No, they advocated peace.

Did the Mad Ham Slammer advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

Oh, mais oui! Indeed, members of the Religion of Piss (tm) are killing Hindus in India and Buddhists in Thailand on a regular basis even now. Some Christians have apparently gotten their knickers in a twist over a Starbucks logo. Get back to me when they kill someone over it - perhaps slit the throadt and then stick a warning letter to the body with the knife, like that Jizzlamaniac did to Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands.

Like I said, get back to me when it happens.

Did Jesus? No (unless you want to get into the whole holy trinity thing, then technically, yes) but did the Christian god (christians seem to forget but he's the one in charge eh)? Yes.

[ttjereth]

This has been my observation on this Forum from day one with regards to the behaviour of "white English speaking people" versus the Japanese or just about anyone not "white English speaking".

1. And yet, here you are 8 years later, still here.

2.

That is the "fact" that not many people know. Islam was built on killing those who were not believers in a massive scale. When you were converted to islam, you were given a sword to convert your friends and neighbours and if they refused you'd kill them. Islam is a fucked up religion and they can keep their fucking lifestyle to themselves. But give them an inch and they'll take a mile because under their religion, they have an obligation to kill non-believers.

Look at a map of islam on the Internet and you'll see how it spread from Arabia all the way to the Atlantic in North Africa and west to India and North to Russia. The spread stopped at major obstacles like oceans and mountain ranges.

What have fucking Islams invented in the last 800 years? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. They dress like idiots in white gowns and don't shave. Fucking repulsive people.

Man it feel good to be a biggot once in a while. Did I say, fuck Islam?

[American Oyaji]

ttjereth, I have to go to work right now, but I'll be back tomorrow, and I'll explain to you why you're wrong. (I won't get home till 10pm).

You've got a bug up your butt about religion, that much is obvious. If you don't care, why do you put so much effort to refute?

BTW, you've not read the whole Koran. I've other verses to show you.

Also, those laws about killing in Deuteronomy only applied to those WITHIN Israel.

[GuyJean]

Did the Buddha and Jesus advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?..

I keep forgetting Muslims killed Jesus..

GJ

[GuyJean]

.. Also, those laws about killing in Deuteronomy only applied to those WITHIN Israel.

:lol: Yeah! The Bible says to only kill in context!

I think we discussed this before.....

GJ

[Catoneinutica]

Whatever you European dudes fabricate history, Europe is nothing but a son of Arab. This is why evil Euro-American dudes eagerly have pressed down Arab countries not to thrive.

W holding hands with King Abdullah doesn't like "pressing down". If the Euro-Americans wanted to press down on the Arab countries, they'd seize the oilfields.

Heh. But China is already pressing down on impotent Nippon. Feel the pressure, Take. Love the pressure.

[GuyJean]

Captioned like one of those motivational posters:
"HYPOCRACY: When you claim to be leading a "War on Terror" and then hold hands - even share your stash of booze and blow - with the King of the number-one financer of terrorism."

Mine was gonna be, "Who's Your Daddy?"

GJ

[Catoneinutica]

Again, I'll answer my lame rhetorical questions above:

Did the Buddha and Jesus advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

No, they advocated peace.

Did the Mad Ham Slammer advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

Oh, mais oui! Indeed, members of the Religion of Piss (tm) are killing Hindus in India and Buddhists in Thailand on a regular basis even now. Some Christians have apparently gotten their knickers in a twist over a Starbucks logo. Get back to me when they kill someone over it - perhaps slit the throadt and then stick a warning letter to the body with the knife, like that Jizzlamaniac did to Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands.

Like I said, get back to me when it happens.

Okay, I'll say it again: get back to me when it happens.

[GuyJean]

Again, I'll answer my lame rhetorical questions above:

Did the Buddha and Jesus advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

No, they advocated peace.

Did the Mad Ham Slammer advocate killing "infidels," "pagans," etc?

Oh, mais oui! Indeed, members of the Religion of Piss (tm) are killing Hindus in India and Buddhists in Thailand on a regular basis even now. Some Christians have apparently gotten their knickers in a twist over a Starbucks logo. Get back to me when they kill someone over it - perhaps slit the throadt and then stick a warning letter to the body with the knife, like that Jizzlamaniac did to Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands.

Like I said, get back to me when it happens.

Wow. You're scared shitless.. You're going to be ok. But could you give me some links so I can be too?

GJ

[GuyJean]

Interesting...

Christian Terrorist Organizations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

Christian Identity
Army of God
Aryan Nations
Christian Patriots
Ku Klux Klan
Lambs of Christ
Tsar Lazar Guard
White Eagles
Christians from Poso
National Liberation Front of Tripura
Guardians of the Cedars
Christian Phalangist Militia
Groups in Northern Ireland

Who would Jesus bomb?..

GJ

[ttjereth]

ttjereth, I have to go to work right now, but I'll be back tomorrow, and I'll explain to you why you're wrong. (I won't get home till 10pm).

You've got a bug up your butt about religion, that much is obvious. If you don't care, why do you put so much effort to refute?

BTW, you've not read the whole Koran. I've other verses to show you.

Also, those laws about killing in Deuteronomy only applied to those WITHIN Israel.

1. Where did I say I don't care?

2. Being told I have a bug up the butt about religion is hilarious coming from you.

3. Yes, I have read the entire Koran (in English with millions of anotations, but still the entire thing) and the entire bible.

4. No the laws in deuteronmy do not all apply only to Israel. The ones which are specified as such do, the idea that they all do is just an excuse used when people want to pretend they didn't mean anything, try actually reading the bible. And even if they did only apply within Israel (which they don't), that changes what exactly? Murder is okay with certain jurisdictions?

[ttjereth]

Okay, I'll say it again: get back to me when it happens.

When what happens? Murder in the name of Christianity? Are you joking? Repeating the same thing over and over and ignoring all the statements put before you doesn't make you right and on top of which it's obvious you have a problem with Muslims as a whole for whatever reason. Instead of lying the burden of proof on on the opposing side why don't you point out (with references mind you) some areas where the Koran orders the things you claim it does?

I'm betting because the only place you've ever seen them is out of context in a website or news article.

[Iraira]

Problem with most of the religious tomes is that they are vaguely worded, and generation after generation has taken sides armed with what is exactly meant by those "words of god". So, let Greji get a goat now and then, times have changed and an "animal" may mean something different to different people. One thing is for certain, if there were no religions, then we'd really only be able to hate each other for our racial differences....back to basics.

[Socratesabroad]

I'm not defending muslim extremeists, I'm condeming the Christians like yourself

For starters, you've barked up the wrong tree, mate - I'm agnostic at best with no formal or informal ties to any religion, much less Christianity. My dogtags said it best: NO RELIG PREF (no religious preference).

whose first reaction is to always jump in with the "see they are so much worse than us" perspective

No, "they are so much worse than us" because they are here, now. The Puritans, Crusaders, and Inquisitors have been dead for centuries.

and always seem to manage to equate Islam with terrorism

Because the link is obvious

This analysis misses the point. The nature of the terrorist threat is unambiguously Islamic and is not so much a deviation from Muslim tradition as an appeal to it.

It's so obvious, in fact, that the terrorists are the ones saying it:

In the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks on the U.S., the threat of militant Islamic terrorism -- rooted in the Middle East and South Asia -- has taken center stage. While these extremely violent religious extremists represent a minority view, their threat is real. As pointed out by RAND's Bruce Hoffman, in 1980 two out of 64 groups were categorized as largely religious in motivation]

Looking at Al Qaeda, a blantant example:

Established by Usama Bin Ladin (UBL) circa 1990, Al Qaeda aims to coordinate a transnational mujahideen network]stated goal is to "reestablish the Muslim State" throughout the world via the overthrow of corrupt regimes in the Islamic world and the removal of foreign presence - primarily American and Israeli - from the Middle East.
[snip]In February 1998 bin Ladin issued a statement under the banner of "The World Islamic Front for Jihad Against The Jews and Crusaders," saying it was the duty of all Muslims to kill U.S. citizens, civilian or military, and their allies.

but always manage to separate themselves from the atrocities commited in the name of their own religion.

You've had to comb over a thousand years of history to characterize the current state of Christianity (which you also erroneously assume to be my religion). Let me reiterate - the Puritans, Crusaders, and Inquisitors have been dead for centuries. Even better, various Christian faiths and historians have taken a hard look at those events. Better still, institutional (separation of church and state) and philosophical (religious tolerance) bulwarks exist to see that they never happen again.

Contrast that with Islam, which in its radical form managed to remote-detonate explosives a teenage girl was carrying and behead 11 Iraqi police officers and a son of an officer just last week.