Selling Japanese Music To The British

[Mulboyne]

Guardian: Shifting perspectives
Can Japanese pop culture ever be more than a cult concern for international audiences? Why can mid-level British acts like Los Campesinos! pack out substantial venues in Tokyo, while a huge Japanese band, such as stadium veterans Southern All Stars, would have trouble attracting enough clued-up punters to fill the Camden Barfly?...One man trying to redress this balance is Daniel Robson, a British ex-pat living and working in Tokyo, who for the last few years has been promoting Japanese bands in the UK, taking them on tour under his rampaging, Godzilla-esque moniker, It Came From Japan [which] has just returned from its latest UK jaunt, with Tokyo singer-songwriter Natccu playing gigs across the country...Curiously, one of Natccu's shows was at London's Orbital Comics (see below). It illustrates one of Japanese music's biggest hurdles when reaching the UK: before anyone gets a look in, it's been co-opted by "the geeks". Not that there's anything wrong with that, but often the music gets immediately placed in the context of Manga, robots, anime and silly cute things that serve no purpose, so it never really has a chance. If a Japanese act is ever going to make it on British shores, they have to overcome this first. But, of course, the other question is, why would a Japanese band want to break the UK? What's in it for them? Theirs is already the second-largest music market in the world, dwarfing Britain's...Perhaps we should be doing a better job of coaxing them over. "The UK music press is starting to open up to foreign music and there's stuff coming out of Asia that you wouldn't believe," Robson concludes, "but we've got to take the Japanese music industry seriously". So throw away your Cos-Play outfit and burn your tentacle porn. It's seems that only then will the true majesty of Japan's music scene be revealed...more...

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[Yokohammer]

Trying to get Japanese pop music to take off in the UK is like trying to get Japanese adopted as a second language. Not likely.

Music is a language with a vocabulary that has evolved over a long period of time (and I'm not talking about the lyrics). Pop music based on western musical principles is still a borrowed concept in Japan. Not yet fully integrated. What that means is that it won't reach the western listener with the same impact as music created with a fully internalized understanding of the language/art.

Cool as a curiosity, but it'll have to evolve a bit before it can really compete.
But then again, it may never evolve in a direction that appeals to the western ear, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

[Catoneinutica]

Trying to get Japanese pop music to take off in the UK is like trying to get Japanese adopted as a second language. Not likely.

Music is a language with a vocabulary that has evolved over a long period of time (and I'm not talking about the lyrics). Pop music based on western musical principles is still a borrowed concept in Japan. Not yet fully integrated. What that means is that it won't reach the western listener with the same impact as music created with a fully internalized understanding of the language/art.

Cool as a curiosity, but it'll have to evolve a bit before it can really compete.
But then again, it may never evolve in a direction that appeals to the western ear, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

Agreed. Even non-English Europeans rarely get beyond the odd novelty hit. Still, if pasty-faced Brits can make a go (including Louis Vuitton endorsements) of doing squaresville rip-offs of African-American musical genres like R and B, I suppose anything's possible.

-catone

-looks at the video image above and thinks: I'd rather expose my brain to an hour of the cruel vacuum of J-primetime TV than listen to a note of that

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

Why can mid-level British acts like Los Campesinos! pack out substantial venues in Tokyo, while a huge Japanese band, such as stadium veterans Southern All Stars, would have trouble attracting enough clued-up punters to fill the Camden Barfly?

Because the target market for middle of the road stadium crapola would not give a fig for more of the same in a second language unless it was some latin swivel hip action?

[Mulboyne]

The indie segment in Britain can tolerate a bit of language difference. Elisabeth Fraser of the Cocteau Twins rarely sang in a recognizable language:

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Sigur Rós sing in Icelandic and that hasn't held them back:

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Both are quite similar but I can imagine a Japanese band hitting that niche. For instance, Spangle Call Lilli Line got close to that kind of feel with their song "E":

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[Charles]

Trying to get Japanese pop music to take off in the UK is like trying to get Japanese adopted as a second language. Not likely.

It has happened before.

[Yokohammer]

It has happened before.

It has indeed. Let's not forget Q Sakamoto's "Ue o Muite Arukou" (a.k.a "The Sukiyaki Song"). That was a huge hit that was covered by a number of artists. And there's The Southern All Stars' "Itoshi no Eri," synchronistically mentioned in another thread today, that was covered by Ray Charles. There was even a Yellow Magic Orchestra tune or two that gained some recognition overseas.

But these are all isolated examples and nothing that could be considered a trend. Nothing that suggests that people are looking to Japan as a source of great new popular music.

[hundefar]

There has been some minor succeses in niche markets. Techno producer Ken Ishii was big in the nineties, and with him came intereste in other Japanese producers. The Sublime recordlabel even had a European division in the UK. Today there are quite a few wellknown Japanese electronic producers, especially in the techno scene. Goth Trad is a Japanese artist who is getting noticed among fans of dubstep. They play his stuff on the BBC sometimes, and he was just in Europe to play a few months ago.

Then there were the Shibuya-kei acts. Pizzicato 5 of course, but also a host of others similar acts. The Bungalow label out of Germany released records by Yoshinori Sunahara and others.

Not really big pop artists (Pizzicato 5 was big-ish some places in Europe..they entered the charts a few places with Mon Amour Tokyo), but still it is not like Japanese music is not getting noticed at all.

[Kagetsu]

[quote="Mulboyne"]*snip* Cocteau Twins *snip* Sigur Ró]

Champ. ^_^ Cheers... Can't give you anymore rep. ^O^

[Catoneinutica]

[quote="Mulboyne"]
Sigur Ró]

Sigur Rós-level notoriety may be a bit ambitious for a J-pop group, but Shonan Knife-found-object-so-bad-it's-good-level notoriety is entirely within the realm of possibilty!

-catone
-Osaka is my fa-vor-ite town, my fa-vor-ite town is Osaka

[Kuang_Grade]

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/10/rock-band-2s-fr.html

On a possibly related note, as part of free download package of 20 songs for the recently released video game Rock Band 2, X Japan has their song I.V. as playable song in the game. While still in the subculture ghetto of video games, it is a good way to show off your music to a couple million video game players in the US.

[xenomorph42]

Agreed. Even non-English Europeans rarely get beyond the odd novelty hit. Still, if pasty-faced Brits can make a go (including Louis Vuitton endorsements) of doing squaresville rip-offs of African-American musical genres like R and B, I suppose anything's possible.

-catone

-looks at the video image above and thinks: I'd rather expose my brain to an hour of the cruel vacuum of J-primetime TV than listen to a note of that

If you want to call it music. I agree, J-style music or J-pop is primarily geared towards the Japanese listener. Quantity of Album sales supersedes quality usually. In the West artists such as U2, Janet Jackson, Oasis for example come out with an album about every 2~4 years.
Usually in the Japanese market, artists come out with 2~4 times in "a year"
That is not to say every single song is bad, but the quality in song writing should mean something. Maybe in the West, the expectation is high for an artist. If the album bombs, we tend to write them off and hope in the next few years the next album will be better. Anyone remember: Millie Vanilli, or Ashley Simpson, Dixie Chicks just to name a few.
In Japan, the fans are usually loyal regardless if the album sucks or goes platinum. If they like the artist, they just like the artist, talented or not. Japanese fans are always eager to enjoy music and have fun. We have more of a "okay, impress me, show me what you got!" kinda attitude. So for Japan or most of asia J-style music rules, but for the west(if they're trying to break into that market)will have an uphill climb, no doubt about it. How many J-musicians really broke out and had huge success in the west?

[Mulboyne]

The article beginning this thread is part of a Guardian series on Japanese music called, without much originality, Turning Japanese. I've posted several of the articles already on FG without spotting that they were all written by the same bloke on the same theme. Now the penny has dropped, it seems reasonable to draw attention to the new instalment on Kobe's music scene here:

The view from Mount Rokko

Home to vinyl veterans, jazz junkies, classical performers and indie kids, the music-mad city of Kobe is rivalled only by Tokyo for sheer cosmopolitan creativity...more...

[IkemenTommy]

It has indeed. Let's not forget Q Sakamoto's "Ue o Muite Arukou" (a.k.a "The Sukiyaki Song"). That was a huge hit that was covered by a number of artists. And there's The Southern All Stars' "Itoshi no Eri," synchronistically mentioned in another thread today, that was covered by Ray Charles. There was even a Yellow Magic Orchestra tune or two that gained some recognition overseas.

But these are all isolated examples and nothing that could be considered a trend. Nothing that suggests that people are looking to Japan as a source of great new popular music.

I am no real expert in the Japanese music scene, but in terms of popular music the reason that J-poop will never gain popularity in the foreign market is the problem of lacking originality, not quality. The music mentioned above have gained acceptance because they have certain unique elements of instrumentation, tone color, and the rhythmic sound that are distinct to the western music. (Kind of like the umami moment logic, maybe?)

At any given time, Japan's Top20 songs consist of "bands" like Arashi, Kattun, Smanko, etc. The US and UK export enough of Backstreet Boys and Britney Spears clones to the rest of the world that they have become more accepted than any of the J-poop groups.

[Yokohammer]

Originality really is an issue.

Japanese "rap" is a good example. Most of it ... and I mean 99% most of it ... is a joke. Rap comes from a cultural background that is almost essential to its authenticity, and the Japanese "rap artists" are merely copying the superficial elements wholesale, including the "throwing shapes" stuff, which just looks idiotic, without giving a moment's thought to the culture and background from which the genre was born. In other words, it is painfully shallow. The same goes for most other forms of popular music based on the western template. Too much "kakkoii" and not nearly enough substance.

Which is not to say that there aren't western "artists" who simply copy a genre without really understanding it ... there are plenty. And they're crap too.

[kusai Jijii]

Spot on Hammer!

[Charles]

Originality really is an issue.

Japanese "rap" is a good example. Most of it ... and I mean 99% most of it ... is a joke..

99% of anything is crap. And of the remaining 1%, 99% of that is crap too.

[hundefar]

Originality really is an issue.

Japanese "rap" is a good example. Most of it ... and I mean 99% most of it ... is a joke. Rap comes from a cultural background that is almost essential to its authenticity, and the Japanese "rap artists" are merely copying the superficial elements wholesale, including the "throwing shapes" stuff, which just looks idiotic, without giving a moment's thought to the culture and background from which the genre was born. In other words, it is painfully shallow. The same goes for most other forms of popular music based on the western template. Too much "kakkoii" and not nearly enough substance.

I disagree. Today you will find that most rap scenes outside of the US have found their own feet to stand on. They all use the same cultural signifiers, be it gold chains, Adidas shoes, backpacks or whatever, but they are also all very different underneith all that. I listen to a lot of rap music from Europe and also a lot of Japanese rap, and today the local rap scenes don't even look towards the US as much as they did before. You speak of the superficial elements, and sure...they are used everywhere in the world where people make rap music. But they are used to make local and different versions of global hip hop culture.

In the nineties you had the whole "oh how can we, Japanese/Swedes/French/etc. who are not black americans even make such music?" - which seems to be the point you are making (correct me if I am wrong). But that discussion is long gone. I think that if your view is that rap music is supposed to be the same as in the US, then you will reach the conclusion you did. But having listened to rap music for the last 25 years and coming from a European point of view, I think that you will never be able to understand non-US rap music if you view it that way. In my opinion you have to look beyond the use of superficial symbols, and look at what they use them for, which is creating strong local identities. For instance the way Yokohama and Nagoya has positioned themselves in the rap community as places where westcoast/chicano-inspired rap rules, and hence that sound has become connected to those places in Japan, and not to LA or such, for many rap fans in Japan.

Many fans only listen to their local varieties of rap music, and don't even know many american artists. I think it is great that people have started caring less about whether they are mane or not, or whether they can pull it off without being black or not. It really isn't important, and as a lover of rap music I couldn't care less whether they are authentic or not. In the end the background of the music isn't important at all, it is what you do with it now. Who cares about some black or hispanic people in the US 30 years ago, when you live in another country here and now.

EVERY rap scene outside of the US gets the exact same criticism as the one you made. But rap music is global now, and everything does not revolve around the US any more. Thank God for that, because that means that you get much more variety in global rap music than you did 20 years ago.

I do like a lot of Japanese rap music. From Tha Blue Herb to gangsta-posers such as DS455 out of Yokohama. I really can't see why they are not allowed to make this kind of music just because they aren't from some ghetto. It is, after all, just music.

[IkemenTommy]

EVERY rap scene outside of the US gets the exact same criticism as the one you made. But rap music is global now, and everything does not revolve around the US any more. Thank God for that, because that means that you get much more variety in global rap music than you did 20 years ago.

I am going to have to disagree with you on that. American hip hop is still popular in places outside of the US. I may only be speaking of Japan, but you go to any of the popular hip hop/R&B bars and clubs scenes here (Atom, A-life, Gas Panic, etc) and you will most likely hear the latest American hip hop rhymes.

[hundefar]

I am going to have to disagree with you on that. American hip hop is still popular in places outside of the US. I may only be speaking of Japan, but you go to any of the popular hip hop/R&B bars and clubs scenes here (Atom, A-life, Gas Panic, etc) and you will most likely hear the latest American hip hop rhymes.

I did not mean to say that american hip hop was not popular. Sorry if it seemed that way. What I meant was that years ago, every rap fan outside the US was looking towards the US and considered their own local varieties as some mediocre copy. Today you have many rap fans who doesn't listen to US rap at all in places such as Japan (yes, I actually did a survey) which wasn't the case years ago. Again, I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough about that.

[Adhesive]

I did not mean to say that american hip hop was not popular. Sorry if it seemed that way. What I meant was that years ago, every rap fan outside the US was looking towards the US and considered their own local varieties as some mediocre copy. Today you have many rap fans who doesn't listen to US rap at all in places such as Japan (yes, I actually did a survey) which wasn't the case years ago. Again, I am sorry if I wasn't clear enough about that.

I agree, except that, for me, part of the enjoyability of rap comes from the genuine discontent and anguish behind the lyrics. If you remove that element (either by rapping about fun, happy thoughts, or by rapping about situations that you yourself have never experienced), it takes a lot away from the music. So, as long as the feelings behind the words are genuine, I agree that good rap can come from anywhere in the world.

That being said, I do realize that a lot of people listen to and appreciate music absent any sort of socio-cultural context, and it wouldn't matter to them what the song was saying or where it came from. In fact, I imagine people like me are in the minority...which is why I'm one of the few who dislikes Bob Dylan.

[Yokohammer]

I disagree ... etc.

Fair enough. But I find most J-rap to be as vacant and insipid as most J-pop. It's just different window dressing for the same underlying lack of of substance. Just another way of trying to be cool (and/or sell music) rather than a valid creative effort.

I am not in any way implying that only blacks/hispanics who live in the ghetto in the US are allowed to create rap music. If I were to say that then there could be no good blues outside of black USA either, but that's simply not the case. No, I'm talking about substance and originality.

Another issue, especially with rap, is the use of rhyme. To me good rap is based on clever use of language and rhyme. There is no culture of rhyming in Japan (check it out, it's true ... Japanese nursery "rhymes" don't rhyme). Chinese poetry uses rhyme, but not Japanese. Japanese poetry is based on structure, not sonic interplay (and ending every line with "yo" doesn't count). I know some of the young Japanese rappers are working hard to try and make it real, but it's really difficult when the cultural background isn't there to back them up. And by "culture" in this case I include things like the way people express themselves, and about what.

As far as I am concerned the rhyming problem is just as important for popular music as it is for rap. The rhyme drives the message home. It's a vital element of the lyric.

All of this is not to say that it can't be done. But so far I'm not convinced.

[Dragonette]

Originality really is an issue.
Japanese "rap" is a good example. Most of it ... and I mean 99% most of it ... is a joke. Rap comes from a cultural background that is almost essential to its authenticity, and the Japanese "rap artists" are merely copying the superficial elements wholesale, including the "throwing shapes" stuff, which just looks idiotic, without giving a moment's thought to the culture and background from which the genre was born. In other words, it is painfully shallow. The same goes for most other forms of popular music based on the western template. Too much "kakkoii" and not nearly enough substance.

I agree of course, and I've said as much in another context, but that's not to say that the concept of rap can't be adapted into any language or or subculture] Minato no Yokohama...[/URL] The lead singer is using Japanese street-slang rhythm to good advantage here, I think; even before I understood much of what he was saying, the sound of the words grabbed me. But since it predated Sugar Hill by few years, I think the inspiration was more Torazo-style Ryoukyoku (the talking part is a sort of yak-rap) than USA-rap.

But then again, there was a lot of 70s J-Pop that I really loved...

[Dragonette]

I agree, except that, for me, part of the enjoyability of rap comes from the genuine discontent and anguish behind the lyrics. If you remove that element (either by rapping about fun, happy thoughts, or by rapping about situations that you yourself have never experienced), it takes a lot away from the music.

OK, but bear in mind that originally rap WAS party music - all the rumbling and grumbling came about way later on.The big hit that got all the attention was Rappers Delight - no misery or discontent hidden in those lyrics.

[kusai Jijii]

I heard a story recently about a conversation overheard on the Shinkansen. It was between a 'tarento' scout and a couple of pretty wenches. Apparently, the scout approached the birds and told them that they "looked like they were good singers" - the inference being that in Japan, looks were all you needed to become a good singer.

But of course, Kumi Koda proves that theory wrong, doesn't she Jack?;)

P.s. Kumi Koda? Fuck me senseless.....

[hundefar]

Another issue, especially with rap, is the use of rhyme. To me good rap is based on clever use of language and rhyme. There is no culture of rhyming in Japan (check it out, it's true ... Japanese nursery "rhymes" don't rhyme). Chinese poetry uses rhyme, but not Japanese. Japanese poetry is based on structure, not sonic interplay (and ending every line with "yo" doesn't count).

The rhyming issue. It has been discussed a lot. As we all know there are few verb endings in Japanese, and hence it becomes a bit boring to rhyme suru with kuru, etc. all the time. There is also the issue with lack of stress in the Japanese language. The way it is usually dealt with is by using borrowed words from English or Spanish (especially some of the Nagoya rappers seem to be fond of Spanish words) and adding stress. I think it works well for some rappers. Some times you do stumble into the occasional rapper that seems to be rambling in incoherent English, though. Two-J always crack me up for instance:

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[Adhesive]

OK, but bear in mind that originally rap WAS party music - all the rumbling and grumbling came about way later on.The big hit that got all the attention was Rappers Delight - no misery or discontent hidden in those lyrics.

Good point. I guess I always considered songs like Rapper's Delight and King Tim III to be a mixture of funk and hip-hop, and when I think of the rap that's typically imitated around the world I think of gangsta rap. NWA, etc.

But again, this is all assuming that you even care about what's behind the music, which I'd have a hard time arguing is necessary.

[IkemenTommy]

"Ridin' in my Six-Fo ('64)..."
and
"Throw your hands in the ehyaaa.. like you just don't cayeea.."

Wow, keep up with the original lines, like I have never heard those growing up in the West Coast scene.

[Adhesive]

Back to the topic of J-music selling in the west, I've always wondered why Supercar never did better with western audiences. Actually, there are a few Japanese bands that I think if were marketed better they would have been able to enter the charts.

[Mulboyne]

Here's another in the Guardian series:

The dark side of touring

There's nothing like an existential crisis to round off your first night in Tokyo. Sitting in a traditional restaurant in a Shibuya backstreet, Late of the Pier are sulking around the table, punctuating bouts of introspective silence with sighs of uncertainty. The spread of sashimi sits before them forlorn and untouched. "Why do we do this?" offers electro-wizard Sam Potter. "You don't get to experience the countries you visit; you're just hopping from one backstage area to another. Sometimes it's more frustrating to come all this way and hardly see the place than if you'd never come at all." Cheer up, gentlemen! On the face of it, everything is dandy. They should be celebrating the fact that they are a world away from their Nottinghamshire suburbs. They've just played a packed gig at Shibuya's O-East venue with Metronomy in support. They've showcased promising new songs drawing on fresh influences and threw an impromptu DJ set into the middle of The Enemy are the Future, which elevated the gig to a full-on rave. Tomorrow they're hopping on the bullet-train and speeding down the spine of Japan to reign successfully over crowds in Nagoya and Osaka, too. But do not be deceived; behind this frivolous facade of montage-worthy mania lurks a darker side to the Japanese tour circuit that all bands must face.

Firstly, organising the tour in the first place. Perhaps not so much an immediate concern for Late of the Pier, as they are signed to a major label with offices in Japan, but for bands on indie labels it's a nightmare of endless cost evaluations and ill communications. Touring Japan is expensive, not just for the exchange rate, but for the fact that Japanese venues charge bands high fees – the confused idea being that a live show is promotion for a band's music and not a financial venture in itself. Moreover, unlike Europe where bands can play several countries in one tour, Japan is an isolated market. It's a long way to come just to play one country. Ken McCallum, of Tokyo indie blog Japan Live, gets emails every week from bands around the world hoping to break Japan. "It's hard for a band that doesn't know Japanese and doesn't have friends over here to get concert bookings," he says, "because clubs are generally not interested in responding to correspondence in English from people they've never met. If a band is able to arrange shows, they'll likely play to sparse crowds, and will have to pay to play."

When you do eventually make it to Japan, after recovering from jet lag there's the language barrier to contend with – and the wildly different customs and approaches to gig-going. Some bands are perturbed by the wall of silence they meet when confronting some Japanese audiences. They needn't think it's just them; when I saw Slipknot a few years ago the riotous mosh pits became havens of tranquillity between songs. Venue managers can be notoriously obsessive compulsive. Salaryman culture has filtered down into the music world, so it's not just the office suits that get caught up in bureaucracy to keep themselves busy. "Club managers here have a reputation for wanting to know everything about a show before it happens (resumes, personal interviews, required rehearsals the day of the show), which might not necessarily be that helpful in sparking a spontaneous rock'n'roll explosion," says McCallum.

Though Late of the Pier are ticking all the boxes on the Japanese tour checklist – being accosted by super-fans, taking candid snaps of badly translated English signage and drinking foul-tasting jelly drinks from endless rows of vending machines – it turns out that box ticking is part of the problem. "We're fed up of touring," says singer and guitarist Potter, the band's shy creative backbone. "We don't enjoy it any more. We're musicians; we're supposed to write music. At the moment we're just performers – playing songs we made four years ago to keep our record label happy and it's getting boring."

The fan mania wears off quickly, too: "Someone leaked my phone number to the internet," grimaces bassist Andrew Faley. "I've had around 100 missed calls. If they do bother leaving a message, they just scream for a few seconds then hang up." However, if you are strong enough to take all these trivialities in your stride, Japan is still the most enduringly exotic place a Western band can tour, even if they see most of it from a 27th-floor hotel window. Besides, existential crises can soon be banished by encounters that put the whole globetrotting process into perspective, reminding bands why they're doing it in the first place. As Faley reveals towards the end of the night: "A girl came up to me after the show and told me she was unhappy with her life and was going to commit suicide, but that listening to our band filled her with a new confidence to live. It's the strangest thing that's ever happened to me, and also the most moving."