English is Japan's Berlin Wall

[Mike Oxlong]

[Typhoon]

Spot on.

[Neo-Rio]

The whole "keep the labor force in a sense of bondage" argument makes a lot of sense. Working in a complete Japanese salaryman environment, I knew I could always quit and go back home to my country to work if I wanted. It's not so easy for Japanese citizens to do that because of the language barrier -- so they stay in their companies who bully them into overwork, never quitting, and accepting lousy pay because their job is "never done well enough" to warrant any kind of promotion. Japanese companies dislike those who quit -- comparing it to a massive betrayal of trust, and who threaten to try and ruin their ex-employees name in public to make it hard for him to get another job.

[Ketou]

Pretty much true Rio.
It has always amazed me at how closely structured companies and schools are to the military.

[Adhesive]

I think that this essay is more of a description of the implications of Japanese English programs, rather than any ultimate goal of the powers to be.

I believe that what basically happened is that an emphasis was placed on translating written English to Japanese, rather than actually being able to converse in the language, simply because that's what was important to the society at the time, not because they actually wanted to constrain Japanese people within Japan, as the Berlin Wall analogy would suggest.

I do find some of the defensive comments that follow the Japanese article interesting though. Loosely translated:

Strong efforts to teach English in Malaysia hurt the student's scores in other areas

I guess this is in reference to the use of English to TEACH other subjects in Malaysia, which was ultimately abandoned. Just shows how much further ahead of Japan Malaysia is in the English department.

You can't motivate people uninterested in foreign countries to learn a foreign language

It's like saying you can't motivate people who aren't interested in science to learn chemistry, so there's no need to criticize or improve its instruction.

Other countries score better on TOEFL because the difference between Swedish and English is like that of Kansai-ben and standard Japanese

If I only knew it was so easy, I'd be tri-lingual.

It would be better to increase the amount of Japanese speakers around the world

Oh, the humanity. I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea of a universal language other than English...but I think Japanese would be at the bottom of the list in terms of potential candidates.

[ghostunit]

My two cents:

For the average Japanese student/worker, foreign language skills are more of a toy than anything else. I don't see genuine nor deep interest from their part in any other nation's history, culture, literature or art.

Also, they are too concentrated and busy in their efforts to be more deeply integrated into the very demanding Japanese society.

The greatest indication of their non-seriousness about foreign languages is, I think, their lack of effort in learning the phonology of the target language.

It's true that it's harder for the Japanese because their phonology is so basic (which turns into a huge limitation to assimilate other languages), but their stubbornness in making everything fit into the mold of katakana is rather irritating.

I think, if the Japanese *really* wanted to learn English or whatever they could, it's only that it's pretty low in their list of priorities, no matter what they say. And it shows in the shallowness of both their teaching and their safari-level interest in foreign culture.

[sublight]

Quote:
Other countries score better on TOEFL because the difference between Swedish and English is like that of Kansai-ben and standard Japanese

If I only knew it was so easy, I'd be tri-lingual.

Yeah, by that argument, Japanese should all be excellent at speaking Chinese.

[canman]

While an interesting read, and there are some points that I had never thought about. But, the idea that all or most Japanese can read an understand English to a very high degree is a falissy. While I do admit some in the medical or educational fields need to be able to read and understand English, I feel the vast majority cannot. I agree with Adhesive that translation was the most important factor that was required at the time, and the education systme grew out of that. And as we all know, once somethings gets started in Japan, it will take heaven and earth to make any changes.

[Coligny]

While I do admit some in the medical or educational fields need to be able to read and understand English, I feel the vast majority cannot.

Need... yes... do... certainly not... And not long ago the mandatory language for med school was german...

Meanwhile in Korea... everybody was able to speak english... from nurses to doctors... In Toyohashi, they just have one translator... for brasilian...

[Coligny]

Oh, the humanity. I'm perfectly willing to entertain the idea of a universal language other than English...but I think Japanese would be at the bottom of the list in terms of potential candidates.

Maybe, we can go back to French as the universal language...

Let's go... furst lesson:

Bonjour Mademoiselle, comment vous appelez vous ?

Quel est votre numero de telephone ?

Vous habitez toujours chez vos parents ?
(this one is not needed in japan, as the answer is yes 99% of the time)
I could not put the proper accent, because of my amurikin keyboard... solly...

[Mike Oxlong]

For some, English is their Waterloo...

[Coligny]

For some, English is their Waterloo...

I dun't understand...

(hey, I'm cute, I can't be smart too, must leave some for the others...)

[Behan]

Is that Woody from Cheers?

[Mike Oxlong]

Yes, and his nemesis Henri..."Woody, I'm going to steal your girlfriend..."

Henri: I win? France has won! France has won!
Frasier: There's something you never hear.