Japan PM says nation should embrace migrants

[FG Lurker]

Japan PM says nation should embrace migrants
AFP via Google Hosted News, November 14, 2009

[floatr][/floatr]Japan's Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama said Saturday that his country, which is battling low birth rates and an ageing population, should make itself more attractive to migrants.

Japan has some of the world's strictest controls on immigration, and Hatoyama admitted that he was broaching a "sensitive issue".

But he said that as well as introducing pro-family policies, Japan should attempt to encourage migrants to live and work there.

"I think Japan should also make itself a country attractive to people so that more and more people, including tourists, hope to visit Japan, hope to live and work in Japan," he said on the sidelines of an Asia-Pacific summit.

"I am not sure if I can call this 'immigration policy', but what's important is to create an environment that is friendly to people all around the world so that they voluntarily live in Japan," he said.

(Full Story)

Well this should certainly stir the domestic pot a little bit!

I'm not sure how I feel about encouraging more immigration here. On one hand I'm basically an immigrant myself, so being anti-immigration would be more than a little hypocritical. On the other hand I know the problems Canada has from a reasonably open immigration policy and I definitely don't want to see that replicated in Japan...

[Iraira]

I like how the big dude in the background photobombed.

[FG Lurker]

I like how the big dude in the background photobombed.

Yeah, I was wondering who the hell he is. He's wearing one of the red jackets so I guess he's a leader who's face I should probably recognize...

[Uthark_Runa]

I'm not sure how I feel about encouraging more immigration here. On one hand I'm basically an immigrant myself, so being anti-immigration would be more than a little hypocritical. On the other hand I know the problems Canada has from a reasonably open immigration policy and I definitely don't want to see that replicated in Japan...

/agree.. As much as all if us FG's like to complain about racism, and and unfairness we some times experience here, I think most of us would hate to see Japan lose some of its uniqueness do to a poorly planned immigration policy. I would rather deal with the passive-aggressive bullshit then see some of Japanese culture die, due to the typical 21st century immigrant's ideal that the host country must change its culture and tradition to fit their needs.

[FG Lurker]

/agree.. As much as all if us FG's like to complain about racism, and and unfairness we some times experience here, I think most of us would hate to see Japan lose some of its uniqueness do to a poorly planned immigration policy. I would rather deal with the passive-aggressive bullshit then see some of Japanese culture die, due to the typical 21st century immigrant's ideal that the host country must change its culture and tradition to fit their needs.

Actually I don't really care about Japan losing its "uniqueness" and think it could probably lose a good portion of that for the better.

Immigration brings good and bad to any country. Canada has seen a lot of investment from immigrants but has also seen a large upswing in violent gangs (among other problems). Investment is great. Gangs.....not so much. If Japan can find ways to bring the good while limiting the bad then great. I just don't see them actually being able to do that.

[Uthark_Runa]

This not be taken as argumentative, but your response makes me feel that you do not place much value on culture...do feel that we should all be trying to blend in together, and ignore cultural identity? I do agree that some of the Japanese "uniqueness" is archaic, and totally out of touch with most modern views, but at the same time, I like that fact that Japan is different from where I came from, and I wanted to experience the difference. I think most if not all of us in FG first came to Japan for just that reason, or it was part of the reason we moved. If you try to look at this issue through a Japanese perspective I can see why there are reservations with more open immigration. Like you said look at Canada, the U.S. and parts of the EU. It has had mixed results.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Actually I don't really care about Japan losing its "uniqueness" and think it could probably lose a good portion of that for the better.

Immigration brings good and bad to any country. Canada has seen a lot of investment from immigrants but has also seen a large upswing in violent gangs (among other problems). Investment is great. Gangs.....not so much. If Japan can find ways to bring the good while limiting the bad then great. I just don't see them actually being able to do that.

The only way for a country to not end up with the problems of ghettoization and gang violence that seem to result from immigration would be for the immigrant population to be totally assimilated or totally accepted by the host culture from the start. That's impossible pretty much anywhere in the world and definitely in Japan.

[Coligny]

This not be taken as argumentative, but your response makes me feel that you do not place much value on culture...do feel that we should all be trying to blend in together, and ignore cultural identity? I do agree that some of the Japanese "uniqueness" is archaic, and totally out of touch with most modern views, but at the same time, I like that fact that Japan is different from where I came from, and I wanted to experience the difference. I think most if not all of us in FG first came to Japan for just that reason, or it was part of the reason we moved. If you try to look at this issue through a Japanese perspective I can see why there are reservations with more open immigration. Like you said look at Canada, the U.S. and parts of the EU. It has had mixed results.

Most of what Japan calls culture has been stolen left and right...So as far as uniqueness goes... aside from enjo kosai and drivel aboot uniqueness I don't see a lot of it...

Every day that pass I got the feeling that Hatoyama will not end his mandate alive...

[BO-SENSEI]

Well when dig yourself into a hole with no sign of getting out or any sign that you are going to stop digging, I guess you need to do something to right the situation and being more open to immigrants is a right move, just don't expect the average citizen to be welcoming with open arms.

[Mock Cockpit]

They'd need a million a year and they'd have to start yesterday. Dream on. At least my kids will have an out.

[bornbitter]

[Greji]

[Yokohammer]

During the four seasons....

Damn! I get so tired of this "four seasons" shit! Japan has more than four seasons!

There are nine: Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, Rainy, Typhoon, Mudslide, Earthquake and Volcano! Tidal Wave is closely related to Earthquake so it doesn't count. Come to think of it, Mudslide is closely related to Rainy and Typhoon, so maybe there are only eight.

[Greji]

Damn! I get so tired of this "four seasons" shit! Japan has more than four seasons!

There are nine: Spring, Summer, Fall, Winter, Rainy, Typhoon, Mudslide, Earthquake and Volcano! Tidal Wave is closely related to Earthquake so it doesn't count. Come to think of it, Mudslide is closely related to Rainy and Typhoon, so maybe there are only eight.

You forgot Golden Week.....

[Yokohammer]

You forgot Golden Week.....

You're right, there are nine.

And if the sudden appearance of "Silver Week" this year is any indication, we're headed for ten!

[kino]

This not be taken as argumentative, but your response makes me feel that you do not place much value on culture...do feel that we should all be trying to blend in together, and ignore cultural identity? I do agree that some of the Japanese "uniqueness" is archaic, and totally out of touch with most modern views, but at the same time, I like that fact that Japan is different from where I came from, and I wanted to experience the difference. I think most if not all of us in FG first came to Japan for just that reason, or it was part of the reason we moved. If you try to look at this issue through a Japanese perspective I can see why there are reservations with more open immigration. Like you said look at Canada, the U.S. and parts of the EU. It has had mixed results.

It seems somewhat hypocritical to decry change while artificially trying to enact what is just another form of control. You cannot stop a culture from changing and adapting to the ebb and flow time. Any attempt to do so is to effect exactly what you were trying to prevent.

Immigration policy should be determined not on the basis of whether it is potentially harmful to a perceived cultural norm, but whether it is beneficial to the society as a whole. That doesn't mean opening the gates to the gaijin hoard waiting just outside, but it will involve some form of sensible, progressive approach to immigration policy. If Japan is concerned about losing its "culture" to immigrants, it needs to do a better job of assimilating them into society instead of treating them as gaijin 24/7.

Although not directly in response to what you wrote, this topic reminded me of a passage from historian James McClain in the preface to his book, "Japan: A Modern History":

"Over time I also came to realize that Japanese culture and history are not exceptionalist. Japan is clearly unique, in the sense that all national cultures and histories are distinctive from one another, even though they might share certain commonalities. Accordingly, while Japanese act in particular ways, both now and in the past, those modes of conduct are just as commonsensical as those of other peoples, as long as we understand the values that inform those patterns of behavior. Being distinct, to put it another way, is not the same thing as being inscrutable."

[Samurai_Jerk]

"Over time I also came to realize that Japanese culture and history are not exceptionalist. Japan is clearly unique, in the sense that all national cultures and histories are distinctive from one another, even though they might share certain commonalities. Accordingly, while Japanese act in particular ways, both now and in the past, those modes of conduct are just as commonsensical as those of other peoples, as long as we understand the values that inform those patterns of behavior. Being distinct, to put it another way, is not the same thing as being inscrutable."

One of the things I find so interesting about the Japanese world view is that they believe that the uniqueness of their culture is unique in and of itself as if other culture weren't unique.

[kino]

[Uthark_Runa]

@kino , thank you, that was a great response.

I don't think it is just unique to Japan that they feel their culture is superior to all others. I think that is a common feeling for most countries, and is a reason why so many who immigrate to the western world especially try to push there culture over the culture of their adoptive country. I say find the middle ground, the best of both worlds. Things would work better that way, but that is probably too much to ask for.

[Takechanpoo]

I NEVER EVER have seen the reason keeping Japan's uniqunesses for us Japanese to oppose vast amount of immigrants. The reason most of Japanese oppose to it is to prevent Japan from being split inside like California and Netherlands.


And first of all, are there some precedents that vast amount of immigration policy got any success? eh?

[kino]

I NEVER EVER have seen the reason keeping Japan's uniqunesses for us Japanese to oppose vast amount of immigrants. The reason most of Japanese oppose to it is to prevent Japan from being split inside like California and Netherlands.


And first of all, are there some precedents that vast amount of immigration policy got any success? eh?

I am going to treat the above like a sincere post and write a sincere reply, despite your reputation.

America is a nation of immigrants and they seem to have done alright by it. The problem America has with immigration policy is how to handle the vast amount of illegal immigrants who slip over the border from Mexico and not immigration in general. Japan is not going to have the same kind of problem.

As for the fear that Japan might be split inside by the presence of the "other", this seems like a misplaced fear. The argument is premised on the idea that the very presence of immigrants will be so destabilizing that the country will fracture into warring factions. That more immigration is equivalent to more crime, more poverty, more drug use and prostitution, more politics and social discord. There is no reason for this to be the case provided Japan adopts a reasonable approach to immigration.

The idea of the "split" itself just reinforces the earlier point regarding "uniqueness". In your mind you see the immigrants on one side and the Japanese on the other. However, in reality, both groups share common goals, common culture, and common values. The only way you can have a split is if you believe one side to be in possession of something "unique" that clearly separates them from the "other". For most people on the right, this "uniqueness" is simply Japanese ethnicity, although they like to dress up their concerns in pretty language about culture so as not to expose their dirty little secret (hint: they are a bunch of ethnocentric, xenophobic, ultra-nationalists who spend most of their time masturbating to an image of Japan that never really existed).

Once someone becomes a member of Japanese society, whether they are gaijin or not, they have a stake in the system.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

kino,
I think your arguments are fantastic and very logical.
Unfortunately, I think Japan simply lacks the maturity needed to handle mass immigration, so it'll never happen.

[james]

kino,
I think your arguments are fantastic and very logical.
Unfortunately, I think Japan simply lacks the maturity needed to handle mass immigration, so it'll never happen.

agreed on both counts.

this country, more often than not, still manages to marginalize, in one way or another, intentionally or not, those immigrants that are here now. be it anything in the range from harmless but obnoxious, ignorant and repetitive questions in everyday life, to the more institutionalized forms of exclusion at government levels (think jyuuminhyou) or the outright overt forms of exclusion at certain establishments or the xenophobic pandering of the uyoku - it's hard to see the nation as being anywhere near ready on a social level to handle a more open immigration policy.

[Christoff]

I think we have failed to consider America's immigration quote system. It is not a fact that they will let anyone in, there is a max number of people from each country. For instance, they no longer have the green card lottery for korea where they still have it for japan. As an american, I would not say that illegal immigration is that big of an issue for me. First of all, much of the south west was anexed form Mexican, making it their land in reality. Also, illegal immigrants keep the prices of food and services down. If there was a union shop picking my broccoli. that provided benefits, vacation, sick time, pension exec, the costs of produciton would go from 29c a lb wholesale to well over $3. The end result after shipping, sticking, cost offsets due to spoilage and grocery store employees would result in $7 per ld broc.

[xenomorph42]

I think we have failed to consider America's immigration quote system. It is not a fact that they will let anyone in, there is a max number of people from each country. For instance, they no longer have the green card lottery for korea where they still have it for japan. As an american, I would not say that illegal immigration is that big of an issue for me. First of all, much of the south west was anexed form Mexican, making it their land in reality. Also, illegal immigrants keep the prices of food and services down. If there was a union shop picking my broccoli. that provided benefits, vacation, sick time, pension exec, the costs of produciton would go from 29c a lb wholesale to well over $3. The end result after shipping, sticking, cost offsets due to spoilage and grocery store employees would result in $7 per ld broc.

In that case, we should give the US back to the Native Americans, send the Asians, Italians, Blacks and Germans back. Oh, and the Irish too.
How about Japan giving back Okinawa or Australia to the Aborigines? I mean, since it was there land, it shouldn't matter..in reality.

[xenomorph42]

One of the things I find so interesting about the Japanese world view is that they believe that the uniqueness of their culture is unique in and of itself as if other culture weren't unique.

I tend to agree. Because of this belief, Many Japanese feel a sense of entitlement or the right to be overly selective of the highest order. I can't recall how many times I have heard that basically in a nutshell, most of the world, the way people eat, go around in their daily lives, to having sex or most recent, the stupid remarks that Ozawa made about Christianity shows that many Japanese do feel that they are a step above other cultures and races. When I hear statements that "Japanese have a very sensitive, light, subtle palette, Japanese tongues are much finer than Western people." Where do they learn this crap?!

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

One of the things I find so interesting about the Japanese world view is that they believe that the uniqueness of their culture is unique in and of itself as if other culture weren't unique.

You've gotta admit Miss Universe Japan begging to be fucked up the ass is a pretty unique form of cultural expression that deserves its share of kudos.

[Yokohammer]

I tend to agree. Because of this belief, Many Japanese feel a sense of entitlement or the right to be overly selective of the highest order. I can't recall how many times I have heard that basically in a nutshell, most of the world, the way people eat, go around in their daily lives, to having sex or most recent, the stupid remarks that Ozawa made about Christianity shows that many Japanese do feel that they are a step above other cultures and races. When I hear statements that "Japanese have a very sensitive, light, subtle palette, Japanese tongues are much finer than Western people." Where do they learn this crap?!

Americans are the same, Brits are the same, the French are the same ... etc etc. Not all, of course, but a significant percentage of people in the above and other countries feel that their own culture is superior. Some are more vocal about it than others.

[Christoff]

In that case, we should give the US back to the Native Americans, send the Asians, Italians, Blacks and Germans back. Oh, and the Irish too.
How about Japan giving back Okinawa or Australia to the Aborigines? I mean, since it was there land, it shouldn't matter..in reality.

Yes

[Typhoon]

You've gotta admit Miss Universe Japan begging to be fucked up the ass is a pretty unique form of cultural expression that deserves its share of kudos.

Embracing migrants.