Man convicted of stealing 2.5 yen worth of electricity+

[Ganma]

[FG Lurker]

Something doesn't seem right here... With electricity prices being what they are in Japan I can't imagine it was 2.5yen. Translation error perhaps?

[Ganma]

[Doctor Stop]

He should get the chair for that.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

He should get the chair for that.

Who's going to pay the electricity bill?

[Mulboyne]

If he was a gangster himself, then throwing the book at him for a petty charge would make a bit more sense.

[Ganma]

The whole legal system here seems to be build on justifying waste. It's just another scam like the construction industry. Prosecuting this guy has cost the tax payer a million times over whatever infinitesimal damage to society a slacker like this could ever do. If the government wants to cut waste they should start with the legal system. Legal reform is desperately needed.

[nottu]

[Ganma]

[nottu]

[Iraira]

Not typo. It says in the Japanese article he stole 0.15 kilowatts. 2.5 yen would be about right ... I would think.

So, if he puts his tongue on the terminals of a 9V battery once or twice would that satisfy the overly-ambitious prosecutor?

[Nukemarine]

Ok, let's put this in another perspective:

Neighbor keeps plugging his outdoor lighting into your electrical socket on the outside of your garage. Even after you tell him to stop, he keeps doing it. You unplug it, he waits till you leave to plug it in. You lock it up, he breaks the lock.

Now, how can you make him stop? If you take matters into your own hands, you get in trouble so that leaves calling the police. What can the police do? Well, there's charging him with trespassing and stealing electricity.

Unfortunately, the guy in the story lives in the complex, so there's no trespassing. That leaves the charge of stealing electricity.

Bitching that he was charged with 2.5 yen of theft is irrelevant. That's just what they officially caught him stealing. If he could have got away with more, he would have. Plus, he was warned by the manager so it's not like this was a "Didn't Know" and more of a "Make me stop, I dare you".

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Ok, let's put this in another perspective:

Neighbor keeps plugging his outdoor lighting into your electrical socket on the outside of your garage. Even after you tell him to stop, he keeps doing it. You unplug it, he waits till you leave to plug it in. You lock it up, he breaks the lock.

Now, how can you make him stop? If you take matters into your own hands, you get in trouble so that leaves calling the police. What can the police do? Well, there's charging him with trespassing and stealing electricity.

Unfortunately, the guy in the story lives in the complex, so there's no trespassing. That leaves the charge of stealing electricity.

Bitching that he was charged with 2.5 yen of theft is irrelevant. That's just what they officially caught him stealing. If he could have got away with more, he would have. Plus, he was warned by the manager so it's not like this was a "Didn't Know" and more of a "Make me stop, I dare you".

OK, fair enough argument. He was wrong, committed an offense after repeated warnings and duly punished. You've justified that.
Can you now justify the expense incurred by taxpayers to come up with this Pyrrhic victory? And how much value has it brought to broader society as a whole?
To be frank, this case is a gross abuse of authoritative power and those authorities that allowed it to come so far -- admittedly while only doing their jobs -- are guilty of crimes against taxpayers by negligently misusing public money. It shouldn't be allowed to happen.
If they're going to waste so much money, spend it on the guy so down he needs to steal 2.5 yen's worth of electricity.

[Ketou]

OK, fair enough argument. He was wrong, committed an offense after repeated warnings and duly punished. You've justified that.
Can you now justify the expense incurred by taxpayers to come up with this Pyrrhic victory? And how much value has it brought to broader society as a whole?
To be, this case is a gross abuse of authoritative power and those authorities that allowed it to come so far -- admittedly while only doing their jobs -- are guilty of crimes against taxpayers by negligently misusing public money. It shouldn't be allowed to happen.
If they're going to waste so much money, spend it on the guy so down he needs to steal 2.5 yen's worth of electricity.

Well said.
This is on par with the 2 knobs in the closet.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Well said.
This is on par with the 2 knobs in the closet.

Same principle, but worse. Think of those involved:

Arresting officer (at least one, probably two).
Police investigation/administration
Prosecution investigation/administration
Court administration
Defense lawyer costs (state-appointed for sure if he's applying for welfare)
Prosecution lawyer costs (each prosecution team must have three prosecutors)
Judicial costs (panel of three judges)
Post-ruling judicial costs (probation, etc. other duties incurred while monitoring the offender over three years during the period his sentence is suspended).
I would hazard a guess that the cost of prosecuting this guy would run into seven figures.
No wonder this cuntry's public debt is 200 times the size of its GDP....but, at least we now have a deterrent against derelicts plugging their heaters in the neighbors' powerpoints.

[Coligny]

Guys... I think you're going the wrong direction... Justice is not aboot bean counting...

The one who steal an egg steal a beef... (qui vole un oeuf, vole un boeuf)*
It's this kind of laisser-aller which is killing yurop these days, this added to the "jean-Valgeant" syndrome (sometimes stealing is justified... but what was aboot food to survive now nearly extend to anything including flatscreen TV...). If you start letting think that stealing a little is ok, then next... it will be stealing a little more that will be ok and then... and then... Next will come the anti "have" racism, with the mentality that you can key luxury cars because if they have the money to buy one they must have the money to repair it (and since keying is not stealing it's a minor crime that won't be prosecuted, so it's ok to do it)... And one day you wakeup in a total clusterfuck...





Not to be read as "qui vole ma meuf, vole un boeuf" (the one who steal me bitch, steal a beef...)

[Ganma]

Can you now justify the expense incurred by taxpayers to come up with this Pyrrhic victory? And how much value has it brought to broader society as a whole?
To be frank, this case is a gross abuse of authoritative power and those authorities that allowed it to come so far -- admittedly while only doing their jobs -- are guilty of crimes against taxpayers by negligently misusing public money. It shouldn't be allowed to happen.
If they're going to waste so much money, spend it on the guy so down he needs to steal 2.5 yen's worth of electricity.

Exactly.
I understand that he did something wrong, but the furtherest this case should have gone was a warning from the police or, at the most, a fine. To my understanding a lot of cases are settled out of court with mediation by the police (As happened to a guy I knew when he got into some trouble when he was drunk). So, I don't know what this case got blown out of proportion.

[omae mona]

Same principle, but worse. Think of those involved:

Arresting officer (at least one, probably two).
Police investigation/administration
Prosecution investigation/administration
Court administration
Defense lawyer costs (state-appointed for sure if he's applying for welfare)
Prosecution lawyer costs (each prosecution team must have three prosecutors)
Judicial costs (panel of three judges)
Post-ruling judicial costs (probation, etc. other duties incurred while monitoring the offender over three years during the period his sentence is suspended).
I would hazard a guess that the cost of prosecuting this guy would run into seven figures.
No wonder this cuntry's public debt is 200 times the size of its GDP....but, at least we now have a deterrent against derelicts plugging their heaters in the neighbors' powerpoints.

I do agree that this case should not have been prosecuted. It is extremely silly. I am sure they could have resolved this more amicably.

But in general, prosecution as a deterrent to others is pretty important, isn't it? If the government didn't prosecute cases when costs are out of proportion to actual damages, it seems like people would catch on and notice they are immune from prosecution for shoplifting, etc. Particularly unscrupulous people such as myself.

[Ketou]

Same principle, but worse. Think of those involved:

Arresting officer (at least one, probably two).
Police investigation/administration
Prosecution investigation/administration
Court administration
Defense lawyer costs (state-appointed for sure if he's applying for welfare)
Prosecution lawyer costs (each prosecution team must have three prosecutors)
Judicial costs (panel of three judges)
Post-ruling judicial costs (probation, etc. other duties incurred while monitoring the offender over three years during the period his sentence is suspended).
I would hazard a guess that the cost of prosecuting this guy would run into seven figures.
No wonder this cuntry's public debt is 200 times the size of its GDP....but, at least we now have a deterrent against derelicts plugging their heaters in the neighbors' powerpoints.

Yet the closet case will likely have it's day in court too.

I never cease to be amazed at there shear inability to think out of the box here in Japan. From the trivial to the major it makes no difference. I go to a cafe that has ham, tomato and lettuce sandwiches as well as toasted cheese sandwiches on the menu but can they make a ham, cheese, tomato toasted sandwich?? No...it's not on the menu!
I fear for my little one and what will happen when he goes through the school system here....a life devoid of irony and initiative??

[Ketou]

I do agree that this case should not have been prosecuted. It is extremely silly. I am sure they could have resolved this more amicably.

But in general, prosecution as a deterrent to others is pretty important, isn't it? If the government didn't prosecute cases when costs are out of proportion to actual damages, it seems like people would catch on and notice they are immune from prosecution for shoplifting, etc. Particularly unscrupulous people such as myself.

Sure but you aren't prosecuted for speeding or running a red light either.
The problem is that the bureaucratic system is to rigid to have the ability to deal with the varying degrees of a particular crime. It is left up to the judge, which by that time is too late for the tax payer because he is billed already.

[FG Lurker]

I think that Mulboyne's earlier reply probably hit it spot on. The guy was probably a yak and the cops wanted to nail him for something to get him off the street. This was the easiest thing to prosecute for so that's what they did.

[nottu]

[omae mona]

Sure but you aren't prosecuted for speeding or running a red light either.

I am not sure about the rules in Japan, but in most states in the U.S. I believe you are prosecuted. Of course it is civil, not criminal. And they give you a nice simple way to plead guilty without showing up in court, by sending in a form. If you want to contest the charge, you are entitled to a hearing in front of a judge.

The problem is that the bureaucratic system is to rigid to have the ability to deal with the varying degrees of a particular crime. It is left up to the judge, which by that time is too late for the tax payer because he is billed already.

Yes. Actually there are similar (or worse) problems in the U.S. now; state and federal sentencing guidelines even take the decision out of the judge's hands. I believe there are cases of minor shoplifters being imprisoned for tens of years, and on the flip side, cases of juries declaring obviously-guilty defendants "not guilty" because they know the automatic sentence will be wildly out of proportion to the crime.

[Taro Toporific]

I think that Mulboyne's earlier reply probably hit it spot on. The guy was probably a yak and the cops wanted to nail him for something to get him off the street. This was the easiest thing to prosecute for so that's what they did.

Ditto on that idea---The electric thief was must likely squatting in the apartment with the power turned off because he was trying to get "moving compensation money", which is odd extortion scam here in Japan (where it is impossible to evict a tenant).