Tadao Ando Wonders Where the Dreamers Have Gone

[IkemenTommy]

No. That's not their only option. Japanese consumers are not locked into buying Japanese produce like your statement suggest, and they are not at the mercy of the JA like they used to be. When I go to a supermarket I can choose from a variety of different imported goods if the price is right.

Yes, the other option you are probably referring to is the Chinese exports laced with dangerous (often banned) pesticides which I refuse to consume even if the price may be half or less than what is produced locally.

[McTojo]

The JA has over 10 million members, it is the largest agriculture cooperative on the planet. They have a strangle hold on food prices. McTojo's argument is invalid. The price difference is not that big. If a large competitor sells a product for a price that the JA doesn't like they are subject to harassment from the JA's many allies. Many supermarkets have started to deal directly with the farmers to offer local grown produce at low prices but only fresh produce not rice which is the JA's main product. They supply most of the rice competitors getting a cut of everyone's profit. Small farmers selling to stores won't hurt the JA. NHK is known to help them by bashing crops from other countries to instill fear in the average J-housewife, "ZOMG OLD RICE FROM CHINA!!!" and "Japanese rise is the best".

Yes. My argument was partially invalid. I was merely speaking from the consumers point of view because from where we stand we hardly notice how heavy handed the JA really is. I just don't get the point you are trying to prove when say the JA puts a strangle hold on everything. I think the consumer trusts the JA.

[maraboutslim]

Are japanese consumers so nationalistic that they would rather pay much more for domestically produced goods over cheaper imports?

All the rest of the conversation aside, the answer to the part above is "of course."

[Catoneinutica]

All the rest of the conversation aside, the answer to the part above is "of course."

Case in point: how many Korean cars do you see here?

[AML]

Case in point: how many Korean cars do you see here?

No Korean cars, (thats just coz they hate koreans) but lots of EU and US cars.

If they had the chance, they would buy import.

Its all about the fashion here. Whatevers "in" is what people buy. Regardless of where it comes from.

Also, the reason many dont buy korean or chinese is because they are afraid of poor quality.

Funny how that doesnt stop people from shopping at Ikea....

[IkemenTommy]

Also, the reason many dont buy korean or chinese is because they are afraid of poor quality.

Funny how that doesnt stop people from shopping at Ikea....

Huh? Since when did IKEA become Chinese or Korean?

I think you got it mixed up with KIA Motors..

[waruta]

Huh? Since when did IKEA become Chinese or Korean?

I think you got it mixed up with KIA Motors..

Maybe thinking of the new hybrid version (brought to you by Apple Corp.) ... iKIA

[BigInJapan]

Also, the reason many dont buy korean or chinese is because they are afraid of poor quality.
Funny how that doesnt stop people from shopping at Ikea....

Huh? Since when did IKEA become Chinese or Korean?
I think you got it mixed up with KIA Motors..

I think what AML was inferring was that IKEA (the Swedish furniture maker) products are of inferior quality, yet people buy them anyway.
I personally have purchased my last piece of IKEA crud. Two sets of bookshelves that broke (not from too much weight, the side panels buckled outward because, get this, they didn't plan for the humidity in Japan...), crud desk, trendy looking desk lamp with faulty connections, and the list goes on.

[Catoneinutica]

No Korean cars, (thats just coz they hate koreans) but lots of EU and US cars.

If they had the chance, they would buy import.

Its all about the fashion here. Whatevers "in" is what people buy. Regardless of where it comes from.

Also, the reason many dont buy korean or chinese is because they are afraid of poor quality.

Funny how that doesnt stop people from shopping at Ikea....

IKEA: fast-food furniture. About as environmentally friendly as disposable chopsticks. Anyway, back to Korean cars, they've apparently largely caught up in quality to J-cars, and they're cheaper. The fact that they're nonexistent here argues that J-consumers aren't acting out of purely economic motives but rather out of a sense of nationalism, or, as you suggest, bigotry.

-catone
-SO...the question is: why don't zainichi Koreans buy them? Their pride in their Korean ancestry prevents them from taking on J-citizenship, yet they won't drive Korean cars. Fushigi.

[BigInJapan]

[IkemenTommy]

[AML]

Huh? Since when did IKEA become Chinese or Korean?

I think you got it mixed up with KIA Motors..

What Big In Japan said. Ikea is cheap disposable crap, but because its popular everyone buys it.

As for cars, why would anyone buy a crappy Chinese or Korean car when you can buy a fuel efficient and reliable Jp car?

Thats just common sense.

Besides, whats wrong with buying something from your own country? Arent Americans always picketing and telling everyone to buy American?

And I think your all forgetting the main thing.

While westerners love to point out that we were able to get a certain product for tuppence, Japanese like to brag that they paid a kings ransom for the same thing.

Its just a cultural thing. I see this shit all the time.

Jp person A: I just bought this new car. It cost 5 gazillion yen!

Jp person B: Suggooooooi, Okanemochi daneeeeeee. Can I suck your chinko now?

While his western counter part:

Redneck A: cum see ma big nu truck! only cost me 2 pigs and a goat!

Redneck B: Is that all? You lucky bastard! I had to pay 5 goats for ma truck!

[Catoneinutica]

As for cars, why would anyone buy a crappy Chinese or Korean car when you can buy a fuel efficient and reliable Jp car?

Thats just common sense.

When a Korean car is as fuel-efficient and reliable as a J-car but costs a lot less, not buying one because you hate those damn chons isn't common sense, it's common fucked-up bigotry. And buying something just because the brand is headquartered in your country, where's the common sense in that? Is it more patriotic to buy a made-in-China Panasonic refrigerator than a made-in-China GE or Haier refrigerator? And it's not like a lot of taxes flow from the corporate HQ]monozukuri[/I] skills" kool-aid. Sounds like you've taken a swig or two as well.

[AML]

When a Korean car is as fuel-efficient and reliable as a J-car but costs a lot less, not buying one because you hate those damn chons isn't common sense, it's common fucked-up bigotry. And buying something just because the brand is headquartered in your country, where's the common sense in that? Is it more patriotic to buy a made-in-China Panasonic refrigerator than a made-in-China GE or Haier refrigerator? And it's not like a lot of taxes flow from the corporate HQ]monozukuri[/I] skills" kool-aid. Sounds like you've taken a swig or two as well.

Theres always a reason why one car is cheaper than the other. Usually its because of poorer build quality. (you really want to trust your life to something that might be safe?)

And yes, Jp companies do build in china, but they have better quality control than any of the Chinese makers.
So again, it comes down to choosing quality over price.

I do agree though, that the Chinese and Koreans are improving and will continue to improve. I myself have several LG and Samsung products, And I know that most Jps wont buy them because they are a bunch of racist shits.

Look, I realize that the chinese and koreans will one day over take Japan and will provide cheaper products that are just as good as anything japan makes. Thats when ill start buying those products over the overpriced jp stuff

Ive seen it start to happen already with a lot of PC parts. But its just too soon for cars.

And werent the Americans burning Japanese flags and cars while shouting "Buy American" not too long ago to prove a point? (that they can be just as racist as the Jps)

[Mike Oxlong]

Even the Taiwanese make cars these days...

[yt]6pe7j5eWQaQ[/yt]

[ChargerCarl]

And werent the Americans burning Japanese flags and cars while shouting "Buy American" not too long ago to prove a point? (that they can be just as racist as the Jps)

Maybe UAW members, but japanese cars are extremely popular in the U.S. so I don't see your point.

[AML]

Maybe UAW members, but japanese cars are extremely popular in the U.S. so I don't see your point.

Im just saying that it happened. And I dont recall such a thing happening in Japan....

I know Jp cars are popular in the US. I see that they even let Toyota into NASCAR. That shows how tolerant Americans can be.
And i find it ironic that jps are now importing American made Japanese cars like the Camry and the Lexus brand....

Im not trying to defend how the Jps behave, I just think that one thing they are good at is building high quality shit. And if it wasn't for Japan, i believe most western companies would still be making crap that falls apart in a few months.


That Luxgen looks good!

[Pearse]

Im not trying to defend how the Jps behave, I just think that one thing they are good at is building high quality shit. And if it wasn't for Japan, i believe most western companies would still be making crap that falls apart in a few months.

The Germans have always been making good quality cars as far as I know (Except for maybe some Volkswagens...). I don't think that's from influence from Japan, either.

[waruta]

Even the Taiwanese make cars these days...

Hope it's nothing like the Geely or Landwind cars that China makes:

[YT]J9OlxjkInWg[/YT]

[ChargerCarl]

[YT]f8M-SlHTFmI[/YT]

[IkemenTommy]

Hope it's nothing like the Geely or Landwind cars that China makes:

I hope you're a good driver if you want to risk your life with one of those. Seeing how Japanese (or any Asians) drive, I wouldn't recommend driving one here any time soon.

[AML]

The Germans have always been making good quality cars as far as I know (Except for maybe some Volkswagens...). I don't think that's from influence from Japan, either.

Ok, let me rephrase: "I believe most American companies would still be making crap that falls apart in a few months"

Funny how the countries that lost the war are better at making shit that the ones who won....

[Pearse]

Ok, let me rephrase: "I believe most American companies would still be making crap that falls apart in a few months"

Funny how the countries that lost the war are better at making shit that the ones who won....

I agree with you on both points.

[maraboutslim]

Of course there are lots of myths regarding american manufacturing. In monetary terms, the USA still manufacturers $2.5 trillion worth of goods to China's $1.48 trillion. American may not make as much of the low end consumer crap people fill their homes with, but they still dominate on the top end goods.

[IkemenTommy]

Ok, let me rephrase: "I believe most American companies would still be making crap that falls apart in a few months"

Funny how the countries that lost the war are better at making shit that the ones who won....

That's because the cars are built by whiny unskilled labor union workers.

And the US is exporting the concept of labor unions to the country near you.

[matsuki]

LOL, won't catch me buying a non Japanese car anytime soon. German quality is up there with Japanese but definitely not cheaper. Korea is not far behind Japan (with bubble influenced knock offs of Japanese cars) but they still aren't quite there yet. China, India? Crash test ratings of those tell you all you need to know about build quality. Also, when it comes time to repair something, a Japanese vehicle will likely have cheaper and readily available parts with plenty of places that service them. Foreign vehicles may require the parts to be imported (more time and $$) and a specialist (more $$)

In other areas, however, with all else being equal, cheaper imports are awesome. Some of the stuff I import from the U.S. sells here for 2~3X the U.S. retail price and yet it's still cheaper than the Japanese equivalents. The only consistant complaints we ever hear are about the cheapo packing alot of the products arrive in. Yeah, it's cheap....if it was expensive, it's still heading right to the trash. Think of it as "Eco," you don't need 3 bags neatly folded, inside a box, inside another box for everything you sell. (That will be put in another bag when purchased)

[ChargerCarl]

That's because the cars are built by whiny unskilled labor union workers.

And the US is exporting the concept of labor unions to the country near you.

I don't know if you're joking, but that doesn't really have much to do with the design of the cars.

The death of the American auto manufacturing had more to do with poor management and market anticipation (and they were also locked into a bad deal with the UAW)

Of course there are lots of myths regarding american manufacturing. In monetary terms, the USA still manufacturers $2.5 trillion worth of goods to China's $1.48 trillion. American may not make as much of the low end consumer crap people fill their homes with, but they still dominate on the top end goods.

lol too true. Everybody forgets that the U.S. still leads the world in manufacturing, its just not a large % of its GDP compared to the likes of China/India/etc

[legion]

people also forget that oil is traded in dollars creating a demand for dollars which keeps the purchasing power of the dollar high, hence the apparent cheapness of goods sold in the USA

[wuchan]

The Germans have always been making good quality cars as far as I know (Except for maybe some Volkswagens...). I don't think that's from influence from Japan, either.

You do realize that merc and BMW have very low consumer reliability ratings. Truth is that Honda is the car to beat in the states, resale value of civics is the highest in the country due to the fact that they just don't die.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

Most of the Hondas in the US are US built.