Customer Service an Oxymoron in the USA

[Bucky]

[cuppatea@yahoo.co.jp]

I've experienced this as well. Bad customer service as well as rude, selfish people with unwarranted self-importance and unrealistic expectations.

[Christoff]

It isn't reverse anger if you are fucking my day up. It is well placed and deservedly so.

[Himokun]

Being in Nagoya, gotta say I get most of that behaviour plus the whole "foreigner can't possibly speak Japanese, so I should talk down to him" attitude.
Don't get much gyaku gire, just the "eat two scoops of my ass" stare from most workers if it their or their company's fault. Again, this only happens to me in Nagoya, from which now on I will refer to as Detroit 2. God I hate this city...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Mate, the quality of service in the Untied States in my experience is incomparably better than in my home cuntry of Australia. But that doesn't mean I disagree with you, just pointing out that it could be even worse.

[matsuki]

It really depends on the person you're dealing with, you can end up with far better than Japanese service or walk away bitching about how horrible the customer service is. If you escalate your issue to their superiors, you tend to end up with the service you want. (but with some lost time and effort) As the writer pointed out though, like McDonald's, courtesy is so consistent in Japan that it becomes "over-exaggerated and insincere."

It isn't reverse anger if you are fucking my day up. It is well placed and deservedly so.

Fucking up your day by expecting you to do your job and conduct yourself in a reasonable manner?

[cuppatea@yahoo.co.jp]

Fucking up your day by expecting you to do your job and conduct yourself in a reasonable manner?

A thousand times this. At work we have to be the person they want me to be. At home I can be the person I want to be/am in my mancave.

[cuppatea@yahoo.co.jp]

At work we have to be the people they want us to be. At home we can be the person we want to be (pushes button on the wall, enters the batmancave full of porn).

[IparryU]

Depending on where you go and eat... the waiter/ess has minimum wage plus tip... so they work their ass off for a good tip.

Mind you corner stores... you get the same service as a bum or shoplifter if you dont have double Ds and a nice ass...

[matsuki]

Depending on where you go and eat... the waiter/ess has minimum wage plus tip... so they work their ass off for a good tip.

Mind you corner stores... you get the same service as a bum or shoplifter if you dont have double Ds and a nice ass...

Thai place I went to in Yokohama had shitty service. Sat us in a nice area with a view and then forgot about us. (had to walk to them to grab someone to order, drink refills, etc.) Staff was mixed with both Thai and Japanese but they were more concerned with talking amongst each other than work. In the US, at least you can express your feelings on being forgotten by "forgetting" to leave a tip.

[maraboutslim]

At work we have to be the person they want me to be.

I'm not a slave so I don't take it quite that far. I say that at work I'll be the person they pay me to be. The better they pay me, the better I'll be. I know a lot of suckers who think that they ought to be good first and then maybe the employer will reward them for the extra effort: i'm old enough that i'm not stupid enough to fall for that anymore. I've worked long enough that it's easy for me to show an employer what I can do for them - if they are willing to pay for it. But if they pay less, they get less. Their choice.

What's happened to customer service gigs is that employers have felt more and more entitled to profits generated by their workers and thus wages they pay to their workers of all kinds have not kept up with the cost of living. And so, when they pay employees like shit, they'll either only attract the absolute worst workers who just aren't capable of giving a shit, or they'll attract those that could do better but feel exploited and disconnected from the success of the business that they (understandably) will not put in the effort. When the answer to "what's in it for me?" is "nothing, but the boss might get yet another vacation to the Caribbean" well, what can you expect?

Unfortunately, this doesn't hurt the business owners because all the other owners are doing the same thing and thus service is shit at their competitors as well, and therefore they don't lose any sales by paying their people like crap and getting crap work out of them.

[gaijinpunch]

You Euro people can bitch all you want about the US tipping system, but think about that next time you wait in line for 15 minutes for a 800 - 1000 yen drink.

[matsuki]

I'm not a slave so I don't take it quite that far. I say that at work I'll be the person they pay me to be. The better they pay me, the better I'll be. I know a lot of suckers who think that they ought to be good first and then maybe the employer will reward them for the extra effort: i'm old enough that i'm not stupid enough to fall for that anymore. I've worked long enough that it's easy for me to show an employer what I can do for them - if they are willing to pay for it. But if they pay less, they get less. Their choice.

What's happened to customer service gigs is that employers have felt more and more entitled to profits generated by their workers and thus wages they pay to their workers of all kinds have not kept up with the cost of living. And so, when they pay employees like shit, they'll either only attract the absolute worst workers who just aren't capable of giving a shit, or they'll attract those that could do better but feel exploited and disconnected from the success of the business that they (understandably) will not put in the effort. When the answer to "what's in it for me?" is "nothing, but the boss might get yet another vacation to the Caribbean" well, what can you expect?

Unfortunately, this doesn't hurt the business owners because all the other owners are doing the same thing and thus service is shit at their competitors as well, and therefore they don't lose any sales by paying their people like crap and getting crap work out of them.

This is the same situation in Japan, only the typical J-worker seems to take more abuse and the unskilled positions seem to have no problem being a revolving door as far as turnover rate goes. (in fact, most of these employees have their workers listed as part time, working full time hours, just to skate the law and avoid paying their health insurance)

The solution? Become an employer instead of an employee!

You Euro people can bitch all you want about the US tipping system, but think about that next time you wait in line for 15 minutes for a 800 - 1000 yen drink.

This...you're paying just as much, if not more...it's just already included in the price and goes to the business instead of your server.

[Greji]

I'm not a slave so I don't take it quite that far. I say that at work I'll be the person they pay me to be. The better they pay me, the better I'll be. I know a lot of suckers who think that they ought to be good first and then maybe the employer will reward them for the extra effort: i'm old enough that i'm not stupid enough to fall for that anymore. I've worked long enough that it's easy for me to show an employer what I can do for them - if they are willing to pay for it. But if they pay less, they get less. Their choice.

I see where you're coming from on this Slim and can agree with you. The problem with this is when you are in a system (service, or otherwise), where it is competitive for advancement. There it is a combination applied effort on the job and associated application of nasal passages to the anus that are needed to complete a promotion package. There, if you apply the principles of equal amount of work output measured to the amount of pay input, you ain't probably going to get anywhere fast....
Just my couple of shekels worth.....

[Iraira]

Friend from Dubai was in town about a year ago and we were talking about customer service in Japan and the US. He's been to 40+ countries, and according to him, Japan is clearly #1 in customer service by a long shot, but that compared to the other countries (mainly Middle East, Asia, and Europe), the US was #2. He doesn't owe me any money or favors, so there is no reason he'd be yanking my chain.....Yeah, I was baffled, too.

[Kuang_Grade]

If she is this put off by lousy airline customer service, she's not going to last long in a place like NYC, where the 'what, fuck me?....no, fuck you buddy' mindset is the fairly standard approach to day to day life and if someone complains about something involving you, the standard response would be point out that you could probably make it much worse if you felt like it, so maybe the other person should shut the fuck up before you do make it much worse. The writer is also assuming that NYC is typical of the rest of the US....It is just like Tokyo and the rest of Japan....There are a fair number of similarities to the rest of the country but a staggering number of differences. If she went to the midwest, the odds are she would still get likely iffy service but at least most folks out there would likely apologize if she pointed it out, since unlike NYC, apologizing wouldn't automatically be seen a form of weakness.

IparryU...the US minimum wage is currently $7.25 per hour, but the minimum wage for tip earners is only $2.13 per hour.

[IparryU]

If she is this put off by lousy airline customer service, she's not going to last long in a place like NYC, where the 'what, fuck me?....no, fuck you buddy' mindset is the fairly standard approach to day to day life and if someone complains about something involving you, the standard response would be point out that you could probably make it much worse if you felt like it, so maybe the other person should shut the fuck up before you do make it much worse. The writer is also assuming that NYC is typical of the rest of the US....It is just like Tokyo and the rest of Japan....There are a fair number of similarities to the rest of the country but a staggering number of differences. If she went to the midwest, the odds are she would still get likely iffy service but at least most folks out there would likely apologize if she pointed it out, since unlike NYC, apologizing wouldn't automatically be seen a form of weakness.

IparryU...the US minimum wage is currently $7.25 per hour, but the minimum wage for tip earners is only $2.13 per hour.

you sure? my old GF worked at a place where she got 10 bucks and hour plus tip for 30 to 40 hour weeks...

cant doubt it though...

[xenomorph42]

You Euro people can bitch all you want about the US tipping system, but think about that next time you wait in line for 15 minutes for a 800 - 1000 yen drink.

Not to mention, having to pay to drink water, what the hell is that all about? What do you guys have against water?!

[Kuang_Grade]

you sure? my old GF worked at a place where she got 10 bucks and hour plus tip for 30 to 40 hour weeks....

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Now that said, that's only the federal minimum wage, so what might be the going waitstaff wage in hayseed Arkansas may not be the prevailing market wage in say, NYC or LA. Likewise, different types of venues (high vol, low vol, mostly booze, mostly food) likely work the wages differently to create an average income floor sufficient for the employee to give damn

[Kanchou]

Employee service and attitude is something MANAGERS are responsible, not the individual employee. Restaurants and other low-rent employers in the US give little to no job training, and it shows. In Japan, they spend a good amount on time just how to greet people coming into the store. Employees here understand that top-rate service is an expected requirement for their continued employment, not a way to get a better tip.

High-end restaurants and bars certainly pay better than dives, but it's also much harder to get a waiting or bartending job in one. And mediocre servers are more likely to get fired in said places.

On another subject, my new JET supervisor, a recent transfer to the BOE office, is a total jerk and gets verbally angry for no reason when he's in front of other people, but he's a totally reasonable and fairly nice person when no one else is around. I think he's subconsciously posturing or something.

[Kanchou]

http://www.dol.gov/elaws/faq/esa/flsa/002.htm

Now that said, that's only the federal minimum wage, so what might be the going waitstaff wage in hayseed Arkansas may not be the prevailing market wage in say, NYC or LA. Likewise, different types of venues (high vol, low vol, mostly booze, mostly food) likely work the wages differently to create an average income floor sufficient for the employee to give damn

The wages are close but the food prices mean the total income with tips is going to be much higher.

[cuppatea@yahoo.co.jp]

On another subject, my new JET supervisor, a recent transfer to the BOE office, is a total jerk and gets verbally angry for no reason when he's in front of other people, but he's a totally reasonable and fairly nice person when no one else is around. I think he's subconsciously posturing or something.

It is a shame that positions of power seem to attract jerks.

[tone]

dont miss tipping at all. thats one of our american cultural fuckups that doesnt seem likely to change.

yeah there's a lot not perfect in the states, i miss all the good produce and coffee right now though

[Kanchou]

Tipping is the devil.

I'd rather pay a little more and not have to tip. Not to mention restaurant workers get paid decent wages here.

[tone]

its just a poorly thought out entitlement/expectation thing

i slightly felt like a mark or a fake friend in bars/coffee shops in seattle with the tip issue hanging overhead, with the only out being dropping an extra dollar to not seem cheap. so it comes down to the service persons opinion of you, which thankfully i dont feel like i have to deal with here

[IparryU]

Tipping is the devil.

I'd rather pay a little more and not have to tip. Not to mention restaurant workers get paid decent wages here.

well... not a good sales guy I take it.

minimum wage + mandatory tip of 10% of the tab (upped to 15% to 20% for larger groups) gets you some side money.

when I was a waiter back in the day, got JPY10,000 from one table, USD40 from another (rate was 126 to the yen) and a few shots. Don't even wanna talk about when I was a bartender...

Back in CA, average tips for a rookie waiter a night was 60 bucks... so that is 300 bucks a week in tips alone... not bad for a part time job

[Christoff]

It really depends on the person you're dealing with, you can end up with far better than Japanese service or walk away bitching about how horrible the customer service is. If you escalate your issue to their superiors, you tend to end up with the service you want. (but with some lost time and effort) As the writer pointed out though, like McDonald's, courtesy is so consistent in Japan that it becomes "over-exaggerated and insincere."



Fucking up your day by expecting you to do your job and conduct yourself in a reasonable manner?

Once worked for this man named Stvros Dikos and he would always say, wwe are not here for the customer, the customer is here for us. This true as you wouldnt have access to the things you want if not for the sales person. Nothing worse that some douche bag with an inflated sense of entitlement. If you want something form me you are going to have to get it on my terms. If you are unhappy with that, you can go lick a bums crack.

[Doctor Stop]

Tipping is the devil.

[YT]Z-qV9wVGb38[/YT]

[gaijinpunch]

its just a poorly thought out entitlement/expectation thing

How long have you lived in Japan? I think it's gone too far where everyone wants a tip, but for bar tending especially, it's necessary. The drinks are still bigger, stronger, and cheaper in the US, after the tip. The best part: they are made 3x faster.

Back in CA, average tips for a rookie waiter a night was 60 bucks... so that is 300 bucks a week in tips alone... not bad for a part time job

My main tipping job was as a valet parking attendant. No need to explain why you'd tip a person there.

[matsuki]

Once worked for this man named Stvros Dikos and he would always say, wwe are not here for the customer, the customer is here for us. This true as you wouldnt have access to the things you want if not for the sales person. Nothing worse that some douche bag with an inflated sense of entitlement. If you want something form me you are going to have to get it on my terms. If you are unhappy with that, you can go lick a bums crack.

Unless you are selling some sort of niche items that are unavailable elsewhere, that mindset won't keep you in business long term. As far as b2b goes in Japan, you would never have any business trying to operate that way.

How long have you lived in Japan? I think it's gone too far where everyone wants a tip, but for bar tending especially, it's necessary. The drinks are still bigger, stronger, and cheaper in the US, after the tip. The best part: they are made 3x faster.

THIS!!!!!!!!!