Driving accidents

[canman]

Wifey, just read a story in the local newspaper about a off duty firefighter who was driving home, and the road and weather conditions were very bad, icy and slick. A high school boy, walking home, slipped and fell in front of his car. The driver tried to avoid him, but due to the icy conditions, he couldn't, hit and killed the boy. Now he is headed to traffic jail for two years.
First off, has anybody else seen this story? Next, does this not seem extremely harsh? There was no mention of drinking or anything like that.
It seems to me that if this happened anywhere in the west, there wouldn't be this kind of punishment. It just seems a bit too much. The fact that this guy has to live with the idea he hit and killed somebody seems punishment enough.

[Mike Oxlong]

My general impression is that a driver here is viewed as "a professional", and accidents involving injury or death are "professional neglect". The driver did not take conditions into account properly and drive accordingly, and was therefore unable to avoid the accident as they should have been able to do. They thus bear the brunt of the responsibility for the injury or death caused. Pedestrians and cyclists are smaller and therefore at more risk, and seem to be generally cut a lot of slack in accidents, even when not being very observant nor careful, and even ignoring lights and other traffic signs. Of course no amount of slack is going to bring someone back if they buy the farm.

[Mulboyne]

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I think this is the same story. The boy was riding his bike and fell. This one was picked up by a few 2ch aggregators and the response was mostly sympathetic to the driver.

It's not yet clear whether the driver will be prosecuted. I suppose it depends on eyewitness accounts. It's not uncommon for police to make an arrest following such an accident to give them time to investigate.

[Coligny]

Road and traffic law speaking here, on road without sidewalk, or when the rider drive on the street, when passing pedestrian or bicycles you should either reduce your speed to a limit allowing for a quick stop or leave a proper safety distance between your vehicle and the pedestrian/bike. Thats a good part of the reason why side by side riding is forbidden for bicycles as it would not allow 'passing' anymore but would qualify as and overtaking subject to all the standard restriction (no overtaking sign, no crossing of continuous middle line) while being stuck behind extremly slow moving... target...

I deal with this matter and get honked at every single morning... while everybody else just "squeeze" in whatever space available...

The fireman failed to adapt his speed to the road condition and also failed to preserve a proper safety distance. Plus as a professionnal fireman he should have known better. Maybe for y'all he just got unlucky while doing what everybody else do. But as far as the rulebook is concerned... he fucked up the whole nine yard and some more...

[AssKissinger]

If you're going to barrel through people's communities encased in a ton of steel it's your responsibility to go slow enough that no one is put at risk. If that means keeping your speed under 3 kph, so be it.

[wagyl]

It seems to me that if this happened anywhere in the west, there wouldn't be this kind of punishment.

Just for the record, in my home jurisdiction, dangerous driving causing death can often result in a prison sentence. In fact, wikipediasuggests that this is fairly widespread. It is one of the few ways to go to prison for carelessness. Take care on the roads, guys and gals.

[Coligny]

Now...

To put a spin on this...

"Meanwhile... in Fukushima..."

After the "2 big 2 fail" the "2 big to be incarcerated"

[Netherlander]

If that means keeping your speed under 3 kph, so be it.

I'm assuming you wrote that as sarcasm, but I think it can be taken quite literal. When I was driving on an icy road 2 years ago, which I had never done before, I was driving with my chains on going 5 to 10 kph, just so that I could safely come to a stop at any moment. At the time I was thinking that maybe I was overdoing it, but reading this post made me realize that that may not have been the case.

[Coligny]

I'm assuming you wrote that as sarcasm.

So i'm assuming you've never been on a narrow road behind those electric mobility scooters for old peeps... their speed are at walking pace...

Regular roads have no minimal speed limits. And the book wording "driver must adapt the speed of the vehicle to the road condition" leave not much place for second guessing...

The french wording is bit interesting too, it clearly state that it is forbidden to lose control of your vehicle, means, not allowed to slide on black ice, fishtail, or hit anything.
And the excuse "exactly what I meant to do...." don't work really well with zee popo...

[Samurai_Jerk]

No matter how slow you drive if the road is icy you can lose control. If you're not willing to deal with the consequences of that risk, you shouldn't drive. However, I don't think a person should ever have to serve jail time for a case like this assuming he wasn't drunk and wasn't driving dangerously fast. Cyclists in Japan should also be made to observe road rules and common sense as they are the fucking out of control here. I've had some pretty close calls as a pedestrian with some of these assholes.

[Level3]

Wonder if the "Did the local government do a good enough job sanding/salting the roads to help prevent this type of thing?" angle will come into play. From what I remember of living in Kanto,:passout: there's barely even snow plowing beyond major roads, let alone road sanding or salting. Not a good enough cost/death-prevented ratio, I guess. Without that, ANY speed, even 5 kph, is potentially dangerous if something suddenly falls into your path on black ice.

Guess we have to leave it to the Koban Keystones and their CSI skillz to figure out how fast the guy was driving (with no skid marks on black ice).

Still, the main lesson should be "Don't ride your fucking bicycle on a road covered in ice [while probably playing a game on your cell phone and wearing earbuds]. Walk or have your parents pick you up." I assume that angle won't come into pay either. Can't blame parents for letting their kid come home on dangerous roads alone on a bicycle. Or can we?

Another reason not to drive in this country.

[Coligny]

No matter how slow you drive if the road is icy you can lose control. If you're not willing to deal with the consequences of that risk, you shouldn't drive. However, I don't think a person should ever have to serve jail time for a case like this assuming he wasn't drunk and wasn't driving dangerously fast. Cyclists in Japan should also be made to observe road rules and common sense as they are the fucking out of control here. I've had some pretty close calls as a pedestrian with some of these assholes.

And yet we make fun of the popo when they come down hard on people double riding or side by side riding...

I once got a Popo Nissan Crappia from the opposite lane cut right in front of me to intercept to schooolboys without winker, beacon or siren... my top speed of 30kph that day (back from a woodstock buying spree) made it uneventfull... But I could have thrown them the book big time...

[Coligny]

Wonder if the "Did the local government do a good enough job sanding/salting the roads to help prevent this type of thing?" angle will come into play. From what I remember of living in Kanto,:passout: there's barely even snow plowing beyond major roads, let alone road sanding or salting. Not a good enough cost/death-prevented ratio, I guess. Without that, ANY speed, even 5 kph, is potentially dangerous if something suddenly falls into your path on black ice.

That's why the book speak aboot either safe speed of sufficient separation between your vehicle and the pedestrian/bicycles... Since safe speed don't exist on ice... go for the safe distance...

[Netherlander]

So i'm assuming you've never been on a narrow road behind those electric mobility scooters for old peeps... their speed are at walking pace...

Aren't those electric scooters meant to be a substitute for old people who have difficulty walking. So shouldn't their pace be at walking speed?:confused:

[Mike Oxlong]

Yeah, even people who should be used to driving in winter conditions seem to forget every year that things can bad out there real fast...

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Starts slow, but it's quite the pileup by the end.

[james]

Wonder if the "Did the local government do a good enough job sanding/salting the roads to help prevent this type of thing?" angle will come into play.

nah, everyone here knows you don't salt or sand the roads until after there has been a mishap.

i really feel badly for this guy, and of course the parents of the high schooler. there are definitely no winners in this situation at all.

[Coligny]

Yes, speed is not the problem here, the fact that they are much wider than pedestrian (especially with wide side mirror) make them more troublesome to pass when they are on the road, plus the fact that most of the completly senile driver using them tend to be in the middle of the road or going in the opposite direction (like pedestrian should) add another level of fun...

[Coligny]

Yeah, even people who should be used to driving in winter conditions seem to forget every year that things can bad out there real fast...
Starts slow, but it's quite the pileup by the end.

4WD/AWD help you go forward in bad condition... but if you think you can still brake... you'r not going to stay on the road for long...

And depending on the road-condition/kind of tire and or chains combo the ABS can really help making your life even more miserabul...

[canman]

SJ, I agree with you 100%! If you are driving the speed limit, not drunk or doing anything dangerous, and a kid on a bicycle veers or falls in front of your car and you hit him, there is no way you should go to jail for that.
There was a case a few years back here where the vice principle of a high school got really drunk, and was being driven to a second party by taxi. He told the driver to let him out and he would walk the rest of the way to the site. Once out of the taxi, he started to stumble and trip along the sidewalk. The road was lined with waist high bushes and trees, and this poor drunk guy happened to fall out in front of another taxi, who, having no time to react, hit and killed him. He was sentenced to two years in traffic jail! He was not speeding or doing anything illegal, just driving looking for fares. But ts drunk fell in front of him, and the law says you must be in control of your car at all times, so he was convicted. As James said, nobody wins, but I think both cases the driver doesn't deserve jail time.

[Mulboyne]

Still, the main lesson should be "Don't ride your fucking bicycle on a road covered in ice [while probably playing a game on your cell phone and wearing earbuds]. Walk or have your parents pick you up." I assume that angle won't come into pay either. Can't blame parents for letting their kid come home on dangerous roads alone on a bicycle. Or can we?

It doesn't excuse or explain anything that happened in this instance but it's worth pointing out that the high school kid was a 17-year old.

[AssKissinger]

I'm assuming you wrote that as sarcasm, but I think it can be taken quite literal. When I was driving on an icy road 2 years ago, which I had never done before, I was driving with my chains on going 5 to 10 kph, just so that I could safely come to a stop at any moment. At the time I was thinking that maybe I was overdoing it, but reading this post made me realize that that may not have been the case.

I'm not being sarcastic.

[Netherlander]

I'm not being sarcastic.

OK! My bad.....

[matsuki]

So basically the only way to save your ass in this situation is to swerve to the right, likely causing an accident with oncoming traffic, or swerve the left and crash into something else....and catch the uninjured fucker that caused the accident to hold them responsible. (or run and hope you aren't already on youtube before you get home)

While I agree that one must maintain a safe speed and take road conditions into consideration, there are some situations where it's impossible to stop in time. As a few have mentioned, lack of salted/maintained roads, wider roads with sidewalks, etc. are all shitty failures of the J-gov that you have to consider when driving in J-land as you assume responsibility for their failures.

[Mike Oxlong]

So basically the only way to save your ass in this situation is to swerve to the right, likely causing an accident with oncoming traffic, or swerve the left and crash into something else....and catch the uninjured fucker that caused the accident to hold them responsible. (or run and hope you aren't already on youtube before you get home)

I see you've never experienced black ice before.

[IparryU]

SJ, I agree with you 100%! If you are driving the speed limit, not drunk or doing anything dangerous, and a kid on a bicycle veers or falls in front of your car and you hit him, there is no way you should go to jail for that.
There was a case a few years back here where the vice principle of a high school got really drunk, and was being driven to a second party by taxi. He told the driver to let him out and he would walk the rest of the way to the site. Once out of the taxi, he started to stumble and trip along the sidewalk. The road was lined with waist high bushes and trees, and this poor drunk guy happened to fall out in front of another taxi, who, having no time to react, hit and killed him. He was sentenced to two years in traffic jail! He was not speeding or doing anything illegal, just driving looking for fares. But ts drunk fell in front of him, and the law says you must be in control of your car at all times, so he was convicted. As James said, nobody wins, but I think both cases the driver doesn't deserve jail time.

a cousin of mine was driving home from a family dinner. had a beer at the start of the evening and went home 4.5 hours later.

was driving down the road at 35MPH (speed limit) and a guy runs right out in front of his car and gets killed. Cops said that it was really tragic, shit situation and the dead guys wife explained why he jumped out... Ends up that a bee flew into the guys window so he stopped and got out of his car and ran away from it...

but by law, in any fatal accident case, both drivers must be BAC tested. my cousin weighing in at 250lbs, after 1 beer blew some crazy low BAC and is facing 10+ years in prison now.

shows you that some jackass doing something stupid can get you in trouble despite his retarded actions.

[Coligny]

I see you've never experienced black ice before.

You don't really experience black ice... you experience the ditch or the guardrail after... but usually... most drivers don't understand what happened even after regaining conciousenes at the hospital...

[Coligny]

So basically the only way to save your ass in this situation is to swerve to the right, likely causing an accident with oncoming traffic, or swerve the left and crash into something else....and catch the uninjured fucker that caused the accident to hold them responsible. (or run and hope you aren't already on youtube before you get home).

Nah... the book is also quite clear on this, you must have slowed down before reaching the pedestrian, not jam the brakes 1 m before...
Same for passing them, you'r not supposed to change lane just before reaching their asses. Depending the size of the black ice patch it can help avoid collision...

The fact that it's considered legally as "passing" just means that the 'no overtaking' or 'no entering in the right lane for overtaking' rule don't apply. but unlike what most drivers do, entering the right side of the road for passing don't give you any kind of priority over the oncoming traffic (this behaviour will be the death of my horn soon...)

[Samurai_Jerk]

I think the biggest problem here is that people in general aren't willing to accept that the world is a dangerous place and sometimes shit just happens and it's nobody's fault. I also understand that it's very easy to say that when it wasn't my child that got killed but the law should exist to avoid "justice" based on emotion.

[Coligny]

I think the biggest problem here is that people in general aren't willing to accept that the world is a dangerous place and sometimes shit just happens and it's nobody's fault. I also understand that it's very easy to say that when it wasn't my child that got killed but the law should exist to avoid "justice" based on emotion.

I'm pretty sure it's the original purpose of the whole thing...

[AssKissinger]

I think the biggest problem here is that people in general aren't willing to accept that the world is a dangerous place and sometimes shit just happens and it's nobody's fault. I also understand that it's very easy to say that when it wasn't my child that got killed but the law should exist to avoid "justice" based on emotion.

But walking and riding a bike don't make it dangerous, car do.