Dumb and Dumber -- China's Academy of Sciences and Todai

[Taro Toporific]

Univ. of Tokyo ranked below China's Academy of Sciences on impact of int'l research
Mainichi Daily News - April 23, 2012
China's Academy of Sciences has more research influence than Japan's University of Tokyo, according to the latest Thomson Reuters international research analysis...more...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

China's Academy of Sciences has more research influence than Japan's University of Tokyo, according to the latest Thomson Reuters international research analysis

Yeah, maybe, but does it have four seasons?

[matsuki]

maintained its top position within Japan, its international rank had dropped in two consecutive years

This applies to so many things...

[IparryU]

This applies to so many things...

mostly their pride?

i betcha this wasn't widely published in japland... almost like taking a season away from them.

[matsuki]

mostly their pride?

i betcha this wasn't widely published in japland... almost like taking a season away from them.

Hahahahahaha, land of 3 seasons

[Catoneinutica]

mostly their pride?

i betcha this wasn't widely published in japland... almost like taking a season away from them.

-catone
-kudos to Taro as well for the perfect thread title

[Level3]

Well, I wonder what portion of the citations are by other Chinese. If so, then there's not much way to compete except maybe for Japanese to dedicate half their papers to citations of other Japanese.

And any country that doesn't really care about academic fraud certainly gets an edge in numbers of papers put out. Meanwhile, I get "calls for papers" in various tech conferences in China almost every day now. Though they might as well just come out and say, "Please send us your research so we can steal it."

Wish I were important enough to for them to try to bribe me! (Kidding, Future security clearance background check AI webcrawling bot, sir)

Anyway, let's wait and see if China starts taking all the Nobels.

Though what's the irony if x% of the Todai papers are written by Chinese?

[Russell]

Well, I wonder what portion of the citations are by other Chinese. If so, then there's not much way to compete except maybe for Japanese to dedicate half their papers to citations of other Japanese.

Hmmm. I don't think that happens. But you know what? For the last decade the Chinese government has been encouraging Chinese scientists abroad to come home by offering attractive salaries and bonuses for published papers. Seems this policy is bearing some fruit (though there are also negatives: see below).

And any country that doesn't really care about academic fraud certainly gets an edge in numbers of papers put out. Meanwhile, I get "calls for papers" in various tech conferences in China almost every day now. Though they might as well just come out and say, "Please send us your research so we can steal it."

Fornicate, I must be famous then. I only get invitations to attend their conferences. But seriously, even though many good Chinese scientists returned home, there are lots of mediocre ones already there. In order to get enough papers out to get their bonuses, they "present" their work at those "International" conferences (organized in China), but their only purpose is to get their paper in the proceedings, without actually attending the conference.

[quote="Level3"]Wish I were important enough to for them to try to bribe me! (Kidding, Future security clearance background check AI webcrawling bot, sir)

Anyway, let's wait and see if China starts taking all the Nobels.

Though what's the irony if x% of the Todai papers are written by Chinese? ]
OK, the list of Chinese Nobel laureates is not that long, but there is no reason why it won't grow substantially in the future. And what percentage of papers at US universities is written by Chinese-born scientists?

[matsuki]

Well, I wonder what portion of the citations are by other Chinese. If so, then there's not much way to compete except maybe for Japanese to dedicate half their papers to citations of other Japanese.

The way it reads, the citations would seem to be international...as in from other countries...which can still be rigged.

[Dreamy_Peach]

The way it reads, the citations would seem to be international...as in from other countries...which can still be rigged.

There's a whole host of issues, such as integration into international research networks (more collaboration with external partnerss tends to result in papers with higher levels of citation), multi-authorship and self citation (many physics papers now have hundreds of authors) just a few of these authors to cite the paper can have some influence. Due to linguistic issues, lower citations of foreign papers, may result in lower gift-giving reciprocal citations from foreign counterparts.

The Chinese government has been really encouraging academics to publish in top notch journals with rewards, as Russell mentions. On the other hand, the Japanese government has burdened most academics (with the exception of a lucky and popular few) with increased teaching obligations, programme evaluations or programme administration, that it has had a negative impact on time for research. Less time for research equals less time for publications so it's not surprising that Japanese publications have been decreasing quantitatively since around 2007; lower citation rates are a natural corollary. It will take a while to reverse this now.

From what I see and read, Japanese papers still have the edge technically and Japan still beats the pants off China in Nature articles.

[IparryU]

From what I see and read, Japanese papers still have the edge technically and Japan still beats the pants off China in Nature articles.

well no shit... only Japan can be in touch with nature as they are the land of four seasons (not the hotel, or shichimi... which is actually seven seasonings) and are the first blessings on earth to see the sun rise...

but on a serious note, the Japanese nature shows and books are extremely good. Seriously, it is amazingly weird that after looking at books with my sons that I know how most the insects and animals shit... not to mention now hippos wipe their ass... you just wont see that on the Discovery Chanel.

[Russell]

The Chinese government has been really encouraging academics to publish in top notch journals with rewards, as Russell mentions. On the other hand, the Japanese government has burdened most academics (with the exception of a lucky and popular few) with increased teaching obligations, programme evaluations or programme administration, that it has had a negative impact on time for research.

Yes, all very true. Thanks for pointing this out. It is unbelievable with the bullshit I sometimes have to deal with. I may actually use the news in this thread as an argument with some of those guys who want to impose more and more paperwork on us.

Less time for research equals less time for publications so it's not surprising that Japanese publications have been decreasing quantitatively since around 2007]
I hope this news will give a shock effect.

From what I see and read, Japanese papers still have the edge technically and Japan still beats the pants off China in Nature articles.

Yep, Japan is very good technically.

[Russell]

well no shit... only Japan can be in touch with nature as they are the land of four seasons (not the hotel, or shichimi... which is actually seven seasonings) and are the first blessings on earth to see the sun rise...

but on a serious note, the Japanese nature shows and books are extremely good. Seriously, it is amazingly weird that after looking at books with my sons that I know how most the insects and animals shit... not to mention now hippos wipe their ass... you just wont see that on the Discovery Chanel.

Sorry to interrupt, Iparry, but Dreamy Peach refers to this.

[Coligny]

Sorry to interrupt, Iparry, but Dreamy Peach refers to this.

D00d... show some tact...

[matsuki]

well no shit... only Japan can be in touch with nature as they are the land of four seasons (not the hotel, or shichimi... which is actually seven seasonings) and are the first blessings on earth to see the sun rise..

Chokonen = Rising Sun People (though to be fair, I don't think we claim exclusivity on 4 seasons)