Takei's Gay Play about Japanese Internment

[Samurai_Jerk]

I heard George Takei (AKA Mr. Sulu) on Howard Stern talking about the play, Allegiance, which was apparently inspired by his experience in an internment camp during WWII. Here are a couple of the stars rehearsing one of the horrible songs, "Gaman".

[yanpa]

I thought this thread was Takei's Gay Play about Japanese Internet

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Why, if he's insisting that he's Merkin (in 1941/2) does he have a song called Gaman, the language of the enemy?
Even at those times surely he should have been singing something along the lines of Grin and Bear it While You Cop One up the Arse...(Well, considering his prefererence, maybe you don't need the "Bear it" part).
It's like me, generations later, writing a song about Brutish anti-Catholicism called Póg mo Thóin Pommy.
Meaningless and crass, no matter how funny he may be on Twitter....

[wagyl]

maybe you don't need the "Bear it" part).

I don't know, maybe his tastes run towards the macho and hairy..... !

I was going to say that that was three minutes of my life I will never get back, but to be honest, I only lasted 68 seconds. It is just a Broadway show tune, nothing more nothing less. And in that genre, a word like Gaman even if mangled in pronunciation lends a certain exoticism. Think Bali Hai.

[matsuki]

Why, if he's insisting that he's Merkin (in 1941/2) does he have a song called Gaman, the language of the enemy?

LOL, indeed. I'm sure Japan would have been a much better place for a gay man to Gaman at that time

[Samurai_Jerk]

Why, if he's insisting that he's Merkin (in 1941/2) does he have a song called Gaman, the language of the enemy?
Even at those times surely he should have been singing something along the lines of Grin and Bear it While You Cop One up the Arse...(Well, considering his prefererence, maybe you don't need the "Bear it" part).
It's like me, generations later, writing a song about Brutish anti-Catholicism called Póg mo Thóin Pommy.
Meaningless and crass, no matter how funny he may be on Twitter....

Plenty of immigrant communities hold on to their culture and language to some extent even generations later. Takei's generation would certainly have been less assimilated than today's Japanese-Americans who are fast disappearing as a distinct ethnic group. That doesn't meant they weren't loyal Americans though. From what I learned in college history class the US actaully had the most issues with German-Americans selling their country out. Speaking of Krauts, not a lot of people know this but they and the Italians were also discriminated against in the US during the war though not to the extent that the Japanese were.

[matsuki]

Italians were also discriminated against in the US during the war though not to the extent that the Japanese were.

Chainee Preee!

On the flip side, if you ask a German and Japanese what they think about WWII today.....

[yanpa]

Italians were also discriminated against in the US during the war though not to the extent that the Japanese were.

Chainee Preee!

On the flip side, if you ask a German and Japanese what they think about WWII today.....

you'll get very different answers...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Why, if he's insisting that he's Merkin (in 1941/2) does he have a song called Gaman, the language of the enemy?
Even at those times surely he should have been singing something along the lines of Grin and Bear it While You Cop One up the Arse...(Well, considering his prefererence, maybe you don't need the "Bear it" part).
It's like me, generations later, writing a song about Brutish anti-Catholicism called Póg mo Thóin Pommy.
Meaningless and crass, no matter how funny he may be on Twitter....

Plenty of immigrant communities hold on to their culture and language to some extent even generations later. Takei's generation would certainly have been less assimilated than today's Japanese-Americans who are fast disappearing as a distinct ethnic group. That doesn't meant they weren't loyal Americans though. From what I learned in college history class the US actaully had the most issues with German-Americans selling their country out. Speaking of Krauts, not a lot of people know this but they and the Italians were also discriminated against in the US during the war though not to the extent that the Japanese were.

Sorry, my original post was really unclear. I've since tried to rectify it, but only come closer to wreck/defy, and consequently invited misunderstandings.
My argument is that Takei and the interred Nikkei desperately wanted to prove their Merkinism (and actually did it in the best way possible by forming the 442nd<?>, which would become the War's most-decorated U.S. unit). Choosing a Japanese song to express the experience of internment was, I'm sure, the last thing on any Nikkei's mind in 1941/2, so why present it that way now?
I should have been clearer in that regard.
Why I haven't been clearer regarding the original post is because once I had written in, I realized it meant fuck-all in the big picture and I should just show some tolerance toward a poor old bloke who's had to suppress so much feeling throughout his life. My ability to STFU is not highly developed.
BTW, during WWII (entered 2 years, 3 months before the U.S.), Australia interred Wogs (Dagos), Krauts, Nips and (some) Abos and assorted other darkies, often with results that may have been comic had they not been so tragic. (See Dunera, Cowra)
We also interred Jerrys (Krauts, etc.) during WWI
I wonder whether this influenced FDR's decision? (And sad if it did, as he was one of the great U.S. presidents, IMHO)
So, I apologize again on the Internet.

[matsuki]

Italians were also discriminated against in the US during the war though not to the extent that the Japanese were.

Chainee Preee!

On the flip side, if you ask a German and Japanese what they think about WWII today.....

you'll get very different answers...

and

[yanpa]

Italians were also discriminated against in the US during the war though not to the extent that the Japanese were.

Chainee Preee!

On the flip side, if you ask a German and Japanese what they think about WWII today.....

you'll get very different answers...

and

[matsuki]

Italians were also discriminated against in the US during the war though not to the extent that the Japanese were.

Chainee Preee!

On the flip side, if you ask a German and Japanese what they think about WWII today.....

you'll get very different answers...

and

Somehow I managed to convert my boss's father to an Amerikkkka lover but when I first got here, all I ever heard was how many family members he lost to the US during the war and how Japan was the victim of American aggression when all they wanted to do was liberate Asia from western powers The Nihojinron is strong with this one but since I always seem to be able to make him laugh and am patient with his daily "あのね。。。。あのさ。。。その。。。。どうになってるの？" until he actually makes some sense, he has warmed up to the blue eyed imperialist cowboy nation Contrast that with nearly every German I've met where Nazis or WWII comes up in discussion...poor chaps can't escape the "Nazi shame" but don't dwell on it either.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I think it's a mistake to believe the Germans are totally repentant about WWII...
...just as it's a mistake to believe that there aren't many Japanese aware/distressed over this cuntry's actions in that era.

Among the shared response to WWI of Deutschland and its Uber-Ally are large dollops of denial and regret on all sides.
But neither cuntry was noticeable for the domestic resistance ruling regimes encountered as they went about perpetrating holocausts....kinda like lots of stuff we in the West never really think about, either.

[Coligny]

I think it's a mistake to believe the Germans are totally repentant about WWII...

Why do you think I'm so nervous aboot having them north of the border...

[yanpa]

German take on WWII: "We are still so totally sorry, and BTW if you know of some group persecuted/exterminated by the Nazis to who we still haven't erected a monument in the middle of Berlin, like the Left-Handed Ukrainian Orthodox Christian Pigeon Fanciers, let us know ASAP" [*]

Japanese take: "We were forced to attack Pearl Harbor because the Americans nuked us. Twice."


[*] Seriously, the area south of the Reichstag in Berlin is littered with apologetic monuments to various ethnic, religious and racial groups to whom the Nazis took a terminal dislike.

[matsuki]

I think it's a mistake to believe the Germans are totally repentant about WWII...
...just as it's a mistake to believe that there aren't many Japanese aware/distressed over this cuntry's actions in that era.

Among the shared response to WWI of Deutschland and its Uber-Ally are large dollops of denial and regret on all sides.
But neither cuntry was noticeable for the domestic resistance ruling regimes encountered as they went about perpetrating holocausts....kinda like lots of stuff we in the West never really think about, either.

If you want to get specific, I'm mostly basing this off personal experience with younger people from each cuntry...I'm sure the are plenty of older nazi-esque old people in Germany but I've yet to encounter any denial from younger Germans...younger Japanese, on the other hand...from the gyais all I hear is victim victim victim victim and the gyarus just parrot, "war is bad! I want world peeeeeace!"

[Samurai_Jerk]

I think it's a mistake to believe the Germans are totally repentant about WWII...
...just as it's a mistake to believe that there aren't many Japanese aware/distressed over this cuntry's actions in that era.

Among the shared response to WWI of Deutschland and its Uber-Ally are large dollops of denial and regret on all sides.
But neither cuntry was noticeable for the domestic resistance ruling regimes encountered as they went about perpetrating holocausts....kinda like lots of stuff we in the West never really think about, either.

If you want to get specific, I'm mostly basing this off personal experience with younger people from each cuntry...I'm sure the are plenty of older nazi-esque old people in Germany but I've yet to encounter any denial from younger Germans...younger Japanese, on the other hand...from the gyais all I hear is victim victim victim victim and the gyarus just parrot, "war is bad! I want world peeeeeace!"

The difference is you live in Japan and are exposed to a broader spectrum of Japanese society whereas Germans you meet are traveling and living overseas so your sample group of Germans is more internationally minded (or at least worldly enough to pretend). I have a friend who spent some time in Germany and he said he was surprised how many apologists he met once he got to know people. You also have to remember that German law tends to make it a lot more dangerous for people to express opinions about the war that aren't politically correct.

Back to that friend who stayed in German (he was English BTW). The best story he told me was when a German guy was giving he shit about Dresden and ask him very aggressively, "Why did you fire bomb Dresden????" He replied with his own question, "I don't know. Why did you kill 6 million Jews?", to which the guy replied, "That's such an exaggeration. It was more like 2 million." Yeah, because 2 million makes it OK.

[yanpa]

I think it's a mistake to believe the Germans are totally repentant about WWII...
...just as it's a mistake to believe that there aren't many Japanese aware/distressed over this cuntry's actions in that era.

Among the shared response to WWI of Deutschland and its Uber-Ally are large dollops of denial and regret on all sides.
But neither cuntry was noticeable for the domestic resistance ruling regimes encountered as they went about perpetrating holocausts....kinda like lots of stuff we in the West never really think about, either.

If you want to get specific, I'm mostly basing this off personal experience with younger people from each cuntry...I'm sure the are plenty of older nazi-esque old people in Germany but I've yet to encounter any denial from younger Germans...younger Japanese, on the other hand...from the gyais all I hear is victim victim victim victim and the gyarus just parrot, "war is bad! I want world peeeeeace!"

That's about it. Most of the German xtreme deniers have died off (though you can always find neonazi sympathisers etc. if you look hard enough), and the country has been in institutional full-on repentance since at least the mid 60's. Any politician etc. who utters anything vaguely resembling justification of the Nazi era will be hammered into the ground by all sides so thoroughly all you'll see is the top of their head.

Disclaimer: I lived in Germany for about 15 years.

[matsuki]

I think it's a mistake to believe the Germans are totally repentant about WWII...
...just as it's a mistake to believe that there aren't many Japanese aware/distressed over this cuntry's actions in that era.

Among the shared response to WWI of Deutschland and its Uber-Ally are large dollops of denial and regret on all sides.
But neither cuntry was noticeable for the domestic resistance ruling regimes encountered as they went about perpetrating holocausts....kinda like lots of stuff we in the West never really think about, either.

If you want to get specific, I'm mostly basing this off personal experience with younger people from each cuntry...I'm sure the are plenty of older nazi-esque old people in Germany but I've yet to encounter any denial from younger Germans...younger Japanese, on the other hand...from the gyais all I hear is victim victim victim victim and the gyarus just parrot, "war is bad! I want world peeeeeace!"

That's about it. Most of the German xtreme deniers have died off (though you can always find neonazi sympathisers etc. if you look hard enough), and the country has been in institutional full-on repentance since at least the mid 60's. Any politician etc. who utters anything vaguely resembling justification of the Nazi era will be hammered into the ground by all sides so thoroughly all you'll see is the top of their head.

Disclaimer: I lived in Germany for about 15 years.

Meanwhile in Japan....

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

It seems like the unmentionable didn't happen in Germany, either....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166557/Half-GERMAN-schoolchildren-know-Third-Reich-dictatorship--East-Germany-Communist.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[matsuki]

It seems like the unmentionable didn't happen in Germany, either....
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2166557/Half-GERMAN-schoolchildren-know-Third-Reich-dictatorship--East-Germany-Communist.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

More like German Gen Y is more fucked than you ever imagined.

Never knew it was mandatory to visit a concentration camp...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Never knew it was mandatory to visit a concentration camp...

Can visit an infamous POW Camp in central Tokyo if you'd like....
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=Tokyo+higashishinagawa+3-1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=39942515&biw=1280&bih=833&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Or, of course, go to Sunshine 60 in Ikebukuro, which is the site of Sugamo Prison, where the major A-Class War Criminals were imprisoned and executed.

There is a monument to the slain war criminals in a little park beside Sunshine 60, but it's pretty hard to find and mentions nothing about any other cuntry.

[yanpa]

Never knew it was mandatory to visit a concentration camp...

Can visit an infamous POW Camp in central Tokyo if you'd like....
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=off&q=Tokyo+higashishinagawa+3-1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bpcl=39942515&biw=1280&bih=833&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

Care to elaborate? I used to work a couple of blocks from there...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Care to elaborate? I used to work a couple of blocks from there...

There's nothing to elaborate on. All trace is gone.
Google "Omori POW Camp"
It's one of the most notorious of Japan's camps.

[yanpa]

Care to elaborate? I used to work a couple of blocks from there...

There's nothing to elaborate on. All trace is gone.
Google "Omori POW Camp"
It's one of the most notorious of Japan's camps.

Ta, interesting to know.

Tokyo is really a city without a connection to the past...

[gaijinpunch]

Hey, talk shit about Takei all you want. He posts some funny shit on FB sometimes.