Japan's two leading airlines grounded their fleets of Boeing 787s
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/16/us-boeing-ana-idUSBRE90F01820130116
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Japan's two leading airlines grounded their fleets of Boeing 787s
Harhar wrote:I will keep flying to Japan on dumpy old 767 and 777 United planes with cranky service staff. Not sure if ANA operates a 787 out of Dulles anyways.
The Grauniad wrote:787 emergency landing: Japan grounds entire Boeing Dreamliner fleet
Plane makes emergency landing at Takamatsu airport, western Japan, in latest safety scare for troubled new aircraft
Japan's largest airline, ANA, and its competitor JAL have each grounded their entire fleet of Boeing 787 Dreamliners after an emergency landing due to a smoke alarm in the cockpit – the most dramatic of a spate of incidents involving the troubled aircraft over the past week and since its inception.
All Nippon Airways said the plane had been evacuated, with its eight crew and all 129 passengers exiting safely on inflatable slides. Instruments in the cockpit indicated there had been a battery malfunction and the pilot had noticed a strange smell.
...moar...
chokonen888 wrote:I'm still waiting to see how many of the problems can be sourced to Japanese supplied components...
While that is of course true, it still says "Boeing" on the side, and not "FHI" or "Yuasa". The fact that they use suppliers does not absolve Boeing of any responsibility. It is still their job to make sure every single complete aircraft is safe.Yokohammer wrote:They were saying on the news yesterday that the 787 is about 35% made in Japan.
Yokohammer wrote:They were saying on the news yesterday that the 787 is about 35% made in Japan.
Tsuru wrote:Yokohammer wrote:They were saying on the news yesterday that the 787 is about 35% made in Japan.
While that is of course true, it still says "Boeing" on the side, and not "FHI" or "Yuasa". The fact that they use suppliers does not absolve Boeing of any responsibility. It is still their job to make sure every single complete aircraft is safe.
The battery manufacturer GS Yuasa, based in Kyoto Prefecture, uses lithium cobalt oxide electrodes which are apparently prone to overheating...
Mike Oxlong wrote:Tsuru wrote:Yokohammer wrote:They were saying on the news yesterday that the 787 is about 35% made in Japan.
While that is of course true, it still says "Boeing" on the side, and not "FHI" or "Yuasa". The fact that they use suppliers does not absolve Boeing of any responsibility. It is still their job to make sure every single complete aircraft is safe.
Grounded Boeing 787 Dreamliners Use Lithium-Ion Batteries Made by a Japanese CompanyThe battery manufacturer GS Yuasa, based in Kyoto Prefecture, uses lithium cobalt oxide electrodes which are apparently prone to overheating...
chokonen888 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to find that whatever testing is done to the batteries (if any) by Boeing did not reveal any problems with the batteries whereas the potential problems were foreseeable by GS Yuasa, possibly even discovered and they pulled some shit to cover it up. (Remember, TIJ)
Coligny wrote:chokonen888 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to find that whatever testing is done to the batteries (if any) by Boeing did not reveal any problems with the batteries whereas the potential problems were foreseeable by GS Yuasa, possibly even discovered and they pulled some shit to cover it up. (Remember, TIJ)
Not to defend a Jap company... But LiPo problems traditionnally come from external factors/out of spec environement...
But must remember that Sony pioneered the whole "exploding battery" market few years ago...
Coligny wrote:You really can't resist the urge to put your dick into anything that lay in front of you...
It will end badly someday...
Jan. 21 (Bloomberg) -- Japan’s Transport Ministry and U.S. regulators searched GS Yuasa Corp.’s headquarters in Kyoto in a widening probe into battery faults that have grounded Boeing Co.’s 787 Dreamliner fleet.
Recent trouble with Boeing’s 787 Dreamliner passenger jet – specifically its lithium-ion battery catching fire led to Japan grounding its fleet of 787 planes.
But… who makes the lithium-ion battery? Say hello to GS Yuasa Corp. which hoped its huge sale to Boeing would allow it to make its first profit from that style of battery.
You can see a YouTube Japanese-language news video of GS Yuasa seeing a big drop in its stock prices recently:
NTSB wrote: An NTSB spokesman said the board was aware of the reports of the prior battery problems and would review the data to see if it was relevant to the broader 787 probe.
The lithium ion batteries installed on the Boeing 787 are inherently unsafe, says Elon Musk, founder of SpaceX and owner of electric car maker Tesla.
"Unfortunately, the pack architecture supplied to Boeing is inherently unsafe," writes Musk in an email to Flightglobal.
"Large cells without enough space between them to isolate against the cell-to-cell thermal domino effect means it is simply a matter of time before there are more incidents of this nature," he adds.
Both Boeing and Tesla use batteries fueled by lithium cobalt oxide, which is among the most energy-dense and flammable chemistries of lithium-ion batteries on the market. While Boeing elected to use a battery with a grouping of eight large cells, Tesla's batteries contain thousands of smaller cells that are independently separated to prevent fire in a single cell from harming the surrounding ones.
"Moreover, when thermal runaway occurs with a big cell, a proportionately larger amount of energy is released and it is very difficult to prevent that energy from then heating up the neighboring cells and causing a domino effect that results in the entire pack catching fire," says Musk.
An aerospace-capable version of Tesla's battery has been developed for use in SpaceX's Falcon 9 space launch vehicle. SpaceX, also owned by Musk, competes with Boeing/Lockheed Martin joint venture United Launch Alliance for customers. Boeing has thus far declined offers of assistance from Tesla and SpaceX, says Musk.
"They [Boeing] believe they have this under control, although I think there is a fundamental safety issue with the architecture of a pack with large cells," writes Musk in an email. "It is much harder to maintain an even temperature in a large cell, as the distance from the center of the cell to the edge is much greater, which increases the risk of thermal runaway."
Musk's assessments of battery cells were confirmed by Donald Sadoway, a professor of electrical engineering at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
"I would have used the same words," says Sadoway. "I'm glad someone with such a big reputation put it on the line."
"He's engineered [Tesla's battery] to prevent the domino effect, while Boeing evidently doesn't have that engineering," adds Sadoway...
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