461,000 millionaires in Tokyo

[yanpa]

According to this report.

tokyo-millionaires.png

(for the purposes of this survey, a "millionaire" appears to be anyone with up to US$30,000,000 in assets).

I bet most of those qualify through happening to own tiny patches of land inside the Yamanote line which are about the size of any self-respecting genuine millionaire's Bugatti garage.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I'm not really surprised by this. I think there's shitloads of money going around...go during the day to any of the big "Hills" places, Ginza or Omotesando as just a few examples of the wealth abounding.
Japan hasn't lost its money: it's banks are thriving and expanding and the stock market is going up again.
What's different is the way it's distributed: with a third-world mentality instead of the more evenly spread distribution of wealth of yesteryear.

[GomiGirl]

Yes SDH this is all true but is there the same level of poverty as there is in the US?

There seems to be a large number of very wealthy, then the rest of the population sits pretty much in middle class with fairly high standards of living (comparatively speaking) and only a small percentage of the truly poor/destitute. Personal debt is fairly low (comparatively speaking) given the recent shake up of the lending companies and high interest rates.

This is ALL going to change when the baby boomers die and their huge saving nest eggs are inherited and squandered. Wages are quite flat and are going down. This may lead to an increase in the truly poor.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Yes SDH this is all true but is there the same level of poverty as there is in the US?

There seems to be a large number of very wealthy, then the rest of the population sits pretty much in middle class with fairly high standards of living (comparatively speaking) and only a small percentage of the truly poor/destitute. Personal debt is fairly low (comparatively speaking) given the recent shake up of the lending companies and high interest rates.

This is ALL going to change when the baby boomers die and their huge saving nest eggs are inherited and squandered. Wages are quite flat and are going down. This may lead to an increase in the truly poor.

I don't dispute a thing you say above. It's perfectly accurate.
There is, however, going to be a drastic increase in the truly poor/destitute (welfare recipients have been growing in record numbers for the past five years). You're right to point out declining wages, and you should add declining purchasing power to that, too.
Abenomics will render this cuntry's tightly guarded savings pointless by inflating their value away to pay for the debt Japan has racked up.
But the filthy rich (which oh so coincidentally includes Abe, Aso and many other members of his Cabinet) will get richer. (And so will many opposition members, so the answer isn't there either.)
Viola, U.S.-style 3rd World Economy 101!

[gaijinpunch]

This is ALL going to change when the baby boomers die and their huge saving nest eggs are inherited and squandered. Wages are quite flat and are going down. This may lead to an increase in the truly poor.

By squandered, I assume you mean taxed the fuck out of and disappear into the black hole that is known as Japanese government spending?

Abenomics will render this cuntry's tightly guarded savings pointless by inflating their value away to pay for the debt Japan has racked up.

As long as the yen weakens, I don't give a shit.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

As long as the yen weakens, I don't give a shit.

I wish I didn't, either. Weaker yen is not so good for the average punter in a cuntry that imports nearly all its food and fuel.
Still, I pray that Abe's economic policies work. Having seen the way this dipshit has acted since entering the Diet (and knowing he comes from a family with a war criminal heritage), I fear they won't.
It's sad that all these millions of people who have spent decades squirreling away all their hard-earned and made sacrifice upon sacrifice are going to see it all go to waste lining the pockets of the plutocracy.
Of course, I wouldn't give a fuck if I was a member of the plutocracy, but I'm well and truly in the poverty demographic. It won't make much difference to the impoverished one way or the other, of course.

[Russell]

(for the purposes of this survey, a "millionaire" appears to be anyone with up to US$30,000,000 in assets).

Sorry for nitpicking here, but your definition would include in the millionaires anybody except those with more than US$30,000,000 in assets.

Ahh, I am a millionaire now...

[yanpa]

(for the purposes of this survey, a "millionaire" appears to be anyone with up to US$30,000,000 in assets).

Sorry for nitpicking here, but your definition would include in the millionaires anybody except those with more than US$30,000,000 in assets.

Ahh, I am a millionaire now...

OK, you got me there (although how one can be a millionaire with less than a million is a bit of a mystery...)

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

According to the grauniad, the following applied:

Millionaire: (assumed to be assets of US$1 million)
Multi-millionaire: US$30 million plus (of which Londonistan was the global leader)
Billionaire: US$100 million plus (New York, at 70, led (?) the world <undoubtedly with many leeching taxpayer money>)

[matsuki]

This data is 2012 Data...7Xyen to the dollar could be another reason these "millionaires" are so numerous. (that and the owners of the insanely valued parcels of land in Tokyo as Yanpa pointed out)

[GomiGirl]

Are you suggesting that the high yen was a bubble that has burst?

Bubble bubble boil and trouble..

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

...and the owners of the insanely valued parcels of land in Tokyo as Yanpa pointed out....

Off topic, but housing (as opposed to land) is probably cheaper in Tokyo than it is in Sydney or Melbourne based on what the average nuclear family of four live in (all right, I'm comparing a 120-square meter with a quarter-acre block of land and a 3-bedroom home, but still...For example, the 2-bedroom house located 90 minutes outside of Melbourne that my parents bought in 1982 for AUD$34,000 (about 3 million yen) was valued last year at AUD$750,000 (about 75 million yen.))

[GomiGirl]

Australia is almost prohibitively expensive for us to go home and actually own a home these days.

[yanpa]

...and the owners of the insanely valued parcels of land in Tokyo as Yanpa pointed out....

Off topic, but housing (as opposed to land) is probably cheaper in Tokyo than it is in Sydney or Melbourne based on what the average nuclear family of four live in (all right, I'm comparing a 120-square meter with a quarter-acre block of land and a 3-bedroom home, but still...For example, the 2-bedroom house located 90 minutes outside of Melbourne that my parents bought in 1982 for AUD$34,000 (about 3 million yen) was valued last year at AUD$750,000 (about 75 million yen.))

Yeah, if you're measuring by "units" appropriate to the respective locale rather than absolute size, Tokyo is no longer the insanely expensive real estate of bubble-era legends. Even on the edges of the 23-ku you can get a 3-bed family home for under 40 million yen (complete with no garden and a commanding view of the neighbouring property). If you can take life in the wilds of Saitama, Gunma or Chiba, 20 million will get you 150sqm and a shiny new house, if second-hand is OK they're almost giving them away in some places.

[yanpa]

Australia is almost prohibitively expensive for us to go home and actually own a home these days.

So's the UK. If I'd done the "right thing" (gone to uni there, got a job) I could have got on the "housing ladder" at the bottom of the market in the mid 90's, but those times have come and gone. Still, can't complain

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Still, can't complain

That's not very English of you....

Look on the bright side...you didn't have to live in England.

[Russell]

Yeah, if you're measuring by "units" appropriate to the respective locale rather than absolute size, Tokyo is no longer the insanely expensive real estate of bubble-era legends. Even on the edges of the 23-ku you can get a 3-bed family home for under 40 million yen (complete with no garden and a commanding view of the neighbouring property). If you can take life in the wilds of Saitama, Gunma or Chiba, 20 million will get you 150sqm and a shiny new house, if second-hand is OK they're almost giving them away in some places.

Hmm, what is the quality of that house?

Depending on the structure, roofing, wall materials, etc. there are wild differences, methinks.

But agreed, prices in Japan are not that high anymore, as compared to other countries. Until a couple of years back I was surprised about the high real estate valuations in the Netherlands. (now that that bubble burst, it can only go down there).

Second-hand homes given away for free: where did you find those, BTW?

[Yokohammer]

Oh crap ... can we have a group hug and cry-on-the-shoulder-of-the-person-next-to-you session?

Not being sarcastic either. This is a huge problem for us Aussies who might want to pack up and move (back) to greener pastures at some point. I really messed this one up. Back in around '80 I was back looking at properties to buy, and for about A$150,000 you could pick up something quite nice in a decent neighborhood. That was stretching things a bit for me at the time, so I decided to wait. And now the same properties are going for anywhere between A$700,000 to A$ 1 million or more. Out of my league, I'm afraid.

I do own my own property up here in the boonies, which is nice, but one never knows what might happen in the future. Political issues and/or things like biblical-scale earthquakes and/or exploding nuclear power plants, possibly even all of the above, might make leaving seem like a really good idea somewhere down the line. And even if I was able to sell up and make a profit on what I have now, moving back to Oz and buying a place (and furnishing it, and buying a car ... etc ...) would put a huge hole in my budget the way prices are down there at the moment.

Really frustrating.

[yanpa]

Yeah, if you're measuring by "units" appropriate to the respective locale rather than absolute size, Tokyo is no longer the insanely expensive real estate of bubble-era legends. Even on the edges of the 23-ku you can get a 3-bed family home for under 40 million yen (complete with no garden and a commanding view of the neighbouring property). If you can take life in the wilds of Saitama, Gunma or Chiba, 20 million will get you 150sqm and a shiny new house, if second-hand is OK they're almost giving them away in some places.

Hmm, what is the quality of that house?

Depending on the structure, roofing, wall materials, etc. there are wild differences, methinks.

Those would be your standard mass-produced houses which will look crap in 15-20 years.

But agreed, prices in Japan are not that high anymore, as compared to other countries. Until a couple of years back I was surprised about the high real estate valuations in the Netherlands. (now that that bubble burst, it can only go down there).

Second-hand homes given away for free: where did you find those, BTW?

Sorry to be pedantic, but I said "almost giving them away" Though I'm sure I've heard of some place in Hokkaido which was literally giving away land to attract settlers taxpayers. This blog makes for vicariously depressing reading.

[GomiGirl]

Sell property for profit in Japan?

The only reason to buy property would be for the long game of paying less in cash than in rent over the course of your life and investing any disposable income that results. I really haven't seen much in the way of capital gains from property here.

Or buying for investing/living on the rental income that exceeds the mortgage payments...

Or for holiday rental purposes in a ski/beach resort....

Most of the prefab "seikusi" type housing that is around is designed to be disposable anyway - will not stand the test of time and will be pulled down in 15-20 years to be replaced by the next generation of prefab disposable house with crap insulation and designed by an accountant rather than an architect.

[Yokohammer]

Sell property for profit in Japan?

The only reason to buy property would be for the long game of paying less in cash than in rent over the course of your life and investing any disposable income that results. I really haven't seen much in the way of capital gains from property here.

Or buying for investing/living on the rental income that exceeds the mortgage payments...

Or for holiday rental purposes in a ski/beach resort....

During the bubble a lot of people got very rich buying and selling properties, or just selling property they inherited. That hasn't been an option since prices started to decline notably in the 90's though.

But we would make a profit on our place if we sold now, and here's why: 3/11.

Since all the land down along the coastline is now off limits, people are buying up properties in "safe" areas like the one we live in (the tsunami missed us by a few hundred meters). The result is that, incredibly, with all the land around here there's very little for sale, so prices have gone up considerably. Everybody wants a piece of safe land.

Secondly, the town "yakuba," which was on the other side of the train tracks from our house, was rendered useless by the quake, so they had to tear it down. A new yakuba will be built on our side of the tracks, on the site that currently hosts the largest temporary housing area in Miyagi, which is just a 4 minute walk from our house. New shopping facilities and housing have already started to go up in that area. We suddenly own prime property in what will become the town center in just a few years. It's still the boonies, so the prices will never be as high as they are in Ginza, for example, but relatively speaking we're set to make a profit. If we sell.

It can be done.

[matsuki]

It can be done.

...by buying the the land safest from natural disasters?

[Yokohammer]

It can be done.

...by buying the the land safest from natural disasters?

I was going to say "you can get lucky," but I wasn't sure it was an appropriate expression under the circumstances.

But yeah, luck, sort of.

[legion]

Most of the prefab "seikusi" type housing that is around is designed to be disposable anyway - will not stand the test of time and will be pulled down in 15-20 years to be replaced by the next generation of prefab disposable house with crap insulation and designed by an accountant rather than an architect.

Which makes a lot of sense in a country with frequent earthquakes.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Most of the prefab "seikusi" type housing that is around is designed to be disposable anyway - will not stand the test of time and will be pulled down in 15-20 years to be replaced by the next generation of prefab disposable house with crap insulation and designed by an accountant rather than an architect.

Which makes a lot of sense in a country with frequent earthquakes.

Please don't buy into that bullshit line of reasoning.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Most of the prefab "seikusi" type housing that is around is designed to be disposable anyway - will not stand the test of time and will be pulled down in 15-20 years to be replaced by the next generation of prefab disposable house with crap insulation and designed by an accountant rather than an architect.

Which makes a lot of sense in a country with frequent earthquakes.

And four seasons.

[Coligny]

Most of the prefab "seikusi" type housing that is around is designed to be disposable anyway - will not stand the test of time and will be pulled down in 15-20 years to be replaced by the next generation of prefab disposable house with crap insulation and designed by an accountant rather than an architect.

Which makes a lot of sense in a country with frequent earthquakes.

Please don't buy into that bullshit line of reasoning.

Yeag... If only there was a way to build huge structures for human activities that can resist being on extremly unstable foundation, by now, everybody would know aboot it...

ehmmm...

uss-george-washington-cvn73.jpg

oupsy...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Most of the prefab "seikusi" type housing that is around is designed to be disposable anyway - will not stand the test of time and will be pulled down in 15-20 years to be replaced by the next generation of prefab disposable house with crap insulation and designed by an accountant rather than an architect.

Which makes a lot of sense in a country with frequent earthquakes.

Please don't buy into that bullshit line of reasoning.

Yeag... If only there was a way to build huge structures for human activities that can resist being on extremly unstable foundation, by now, everybody would know aboot it...

ehmmm...

uss-george-washington-cvn73.jpg

oupsy...

What about the Charles de Gaulle?

[yanpa]

Most of the prefab "seikusi" type housing that is around is designed to be disposable anyway - will not stand the test of time and will be pulled down in 15-20 years to be replaced by the next generation of prefab disposable house with crap insulation and designed by an accountant rather than an architect.

Which makes a lot of sense in a country with frequent earthquakes.

Please don't buy into that bullshit line of reasoning.

Yeag... If only there was a way to build huge structures for human activities that can resist being on extremly unstable foundation, by now, everybody would know aboot it...

Let me introduce you to the Imperial Hotel, which didn't do too badly, all things considered.

[Russell]

Yeag... If only there was a way to build huge structures for human activities that can resist being on extremly unstable foundation, by now, everybody would know aboot it...

The Dutch tend to keep those secrets to themselves (for some reason)...