It's official: Korea is Racist

[Samurai_Jerk]

racism-map3.jpg

A fascinating map of the world’s most and least racially tolerant countries

Japan and Australia ain't so bad though.

When two Swedish economists set out to examine whether economic freedom made people any more or less racist, they knew how they would gauge economic freedom, but they needed to find a way to measure a country’s level of racial tolerance. So they turned to something called the World Values Survey, which has been measuring global attitudes and opinions for decades.
Among the dozens of questions that World Values asks, the Swedish economists found one that, they believe, could be a pretty good indicator of tolerance for other races. The survey asked respondents in more than 80 different countries to identify kinds of people they would not want as neighbors. Some respondents, picking from a list, chose “people of a different race.” The more frequently that people in a given country say they don’t want neighbors from other races, the economists reasoned, the less racially tolerant you could call that society. ...

South Korea, not very tolerant, is an outlier. Although the country is rich, well-educated, peaceful and ethnically homogenous – all trends that appear to coincide with racial tolerance – more than one in three South Koreans said they do not want a neighbor of a different race. This may have to do with Korea’s particular view of its own racial-national identity as unique – studied by scholars such as B.R. Myers – and with the influx of Southeast Asian neighbors and the nation’s long-held tensions with Japan.

[matsuki]

This may have to do with Korea’s particular view of its own racial-national identity as unique – studied by scholars such as B.R. Myers – and with the influx of Southeast Asian neighbors and the nation’s long-held tensions with Japan.

Not too different than Japan....

Does Korea have any anti-racism laws?

[Coligny]

Another one of those 'i smell bullshit' studies...

Australia and the US in blue ?
India work with a caste system so I'm not even sure they can be made to fit in that study.
Vietnam... do they even have foreign communities outside of the Chinese ?
Germany in blue... sure, I bet they don't count Turcs as humans anyway...
Iran !? there's fureigners there ?
Korea worse than Japan... pretty sure they are equally bad...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Another one of those 'i smell bullshit' studies...

Australia and the US in blue ?
India work with a caste system so I'm not even sure they can be made to fit in that study.
Vietnam... do they even have foreign communities outside of the Chinese ?
Germany in blue... sure, I bet they don't count Turcs as humans anyway...
Iran !? there's fureigners there ?
Korea worse than Japan... pretty sure they are equally bad...

says the Frenchman!!!!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Another one of those 'i smell bullshit' studies...

Australia and the US in blue ?
India work with a caste system so I'm not even sure they can be made to fit in that study.
Vietnam... do they even have foreign communities outside of the Chinese ?
Germany in blue... sure, I bet they don't count Turcs as humans anyway...
Iran !? there's fureigners there ?
Korea worse than Japan... pretty sure they are equally bad...

Someone feeling butt hurt by the pink color his shitty country received (and by shitty I mean covered in dog shit)?

[Coligny]

Frack... my bad... study made by 'economists'... all the pretension of a science without the accountability...

Also for your butthurtz remarkz...

We should either be red or full blue...

Nobody would tolerate to have arabic or black neighbourgs, but for some it would be racism, for others just the fear toward invasive wildlife... (but they are still ok to play for the nationnal football team though....)(see the 'does Turcs count as humans' problem raised with germany)

[Samurai_Jerk]

(but they are still ok to play for the nationnal football team though....)

Funny how that works, innit? Who was that heavyweight black French judoka that lost at the worlds in Tokyo a few years ago and whined like a bitch about it? I know some rich, right-wing, racist French dudes who hate anything black or brown who flew all the way to Japan to cheer him on. Of course, like Sarkozy, they sport non-French surnames but love to bitch about how there "real" French are being crowded out of their own countries by niggers and Muslims. I have a feeling a generation ago the French were saying the same thing about their immigrant parents.

[wangta]

It's interesting how Korean society (meaning generally the media, politicians, education system, social heirarchy etc) claims to be non racist and justifies the significant problems with non Koreans that exist as normal there by the old 'one blood' excuses. Just like Japanese society.

Both have a xenophobic basis but I'd argue any day that both societies are racist even though technically Koreans and Japanese do not belong to Korean and Japanese 'races'. Korean society especially discriminates on the grounds that Koreans are a unique 'race'.

Dunderhead foreigners like a few former Engrish teacher apologists who married Koreans keep claiming that the word racism supposedly isn't applicable because Koreans aren't discriminating against people based on skin colour and Koreans aren't a race. However, the fact is Koreans see themselves as a unique people separate from others so the way they are brought up to believe that Koreans are superior because of their origins and non Koreans don't really deserve anything like equal treatment certainly is racism by most reasonable definitions.

To be fair, there are Koreans who work for the govt and associated bureaucracy who do care about the situation as well as elements in the media and education system, community groups, etc that realise promoting Koreans as 'pure blooded' people of one distinct origin is out of date and plain wrong. As women from southeast Asia marry more Korean men, there are more campaigns to promote the fact that their children are 'part of our family'. But obviously this is a limited way of dealing with the issues of Koreans versus non Koreans.

Personally I found Koreans more racist than Japanese because of the 'normality' of written and verbal attacks on non Koreans especially white and black English teachers in Korea. Over the time I was there, it was absurd how much attention was paid in the mainstream media to white and black men dating Korean women - freely chosen dating between legally consenting adults. Just as absurd were the constant 'campaigns', often by left wing politicians, against HIV ridden, drug taking foreigners.

There are Korean 'citizen's groups' who spend their time stalking white and black foreigners to harass them if they are dating or are friends with younger Korean women, there are Koreans who stalk male and female foreigners who hang out with Koreans to try and get them into trouble with Immigration as we are not allowed to teach English privately there.

There are financial rewards of over 1,000 Aus bucks for ratting on foreign Engrish teachers who teach illegally. Too bad for those foreigners who like to live a normal life and drink coffee etc with their Korean friends. I was snapped a few times on a little shithead's mobile phone when I was at the cafe downstairs from my workplace, enjoying a good talk in English with one of the few nice co-workers there. The Korean coward folded quickly when I demanded his phone - he deleted all the photos he took of me. He had intended to go to Kimmigration to see if he could get money for what he assumed was illegal teaching.

I can see why people would say, oh but that's not racist. What I am trying to point out is that the norms in Korean society encourage the idea that non Koreans really have no rights and as people they really don't have to be considered. You get that a lot from older Koreans - they honestly are flabbergasted by the idea that you deserve a bit of respect instead of being called a bitch or a bastard and told to get out of their Korea.

Younger Koreans are better but there is a disturbing uber nationalism in so many of them that I'd expect in Koreans who lived through the Korean War - not the pampered later generations whose prosperity is based on non Korean technology, a defensive American shield against the Northern nuts, and superior life choices again based mostly on western societies' benefits. I often heard from Engrish teaching idiots about how much younger Koreans love hiphop so somehow that makes them non racist. I disagreed, citing non Koreans who also love hiphop but have discriminatory views about the people and culture it comes from.

That's not to say older Koreans make a practice of swearing at you and spitting at you - which I saw a fair bit of down south in Korea and at times name calling was directed at me for just walking down the street to go to my school dressed properly. It's just that older Koreans mostly would never question the 'right' of other Koreans to treat non Koreans like they are much lower and irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.

On the odd occasion an arsehole in Japan said something xenophobic/basically racist to me or other non Japanese, I always found other Japanese to look embarrassed by this and be very polite to me. In Korea when Koreans behave badly towards non Koreans doing nothing wrong but sitting somewhere or walking somewhere, it is taken as just anothe right of Koreans.

I don't see Korean society changing its xenophobia/racism significantly in the near future especially as real levels of immigration would up the problems Koreans already have with non Koreans who mostly stay around four years at the most and then leave.

Again the same non Korean apologists try to pretend there are no hate crimes in Korea against foreigners but there have been deaths of non military Americans and other westerners from attacks by Koreans including during the IMF crisis back in the 90s. From what is known, they died because they were non Korean in a time when hatred of IMF policies and westerners associated with them was running high. Not a big number but then again the numbers of non military Americans and other westerners in Korea at that time were very small.

An increase in the percentage of non Koreans there for life would no doubt result in orchestrated campaigns for foreigners to get out of the Great Korean People's Homeland.

[GomiGirl]

tl;dr

[Coligny]

Here Pumpkin, something that won't scare you with big words:

Britney Spears fan club

[yanpa]

tl;dr

Pretty damn interesting post, in my opinion.

I think I mentioned it before, but Korea sounds like it's the place the less enlightened Debitonians imagine Japan to be.

[Russell]

Wow wangta, that was a long and interesting read.

I have only be in South-Korea a couple of times for holidays or business trips, but I had only one bad experience, when I tried to take a picture of Tai-Yaki being sold by an old woman (I found it interesting at the time, because it is also sold in Japan). Somehow she completely freaked out, and it did not get better when I started to talk to her in Japanese...

Ah, now I remember another story, LOL. When I was there in my young years presenting a poster at a scientific conference, there was this guy called Mr. Lee who went to all posters of foreigners (especially the younger ones) to criticize them, while loudly exclaiming "NEXT!" when he was finished with a poster. Fucking idiot.

And then there were those job ads in international journals inviting foreign scientists to apply for jobs in South-Korea to work under the direction of some professor there who would micromanage their research (it was stated almost like this in the add). Just wondering who applied for those jobs. LOL.

Your story would definitely turn me away from South-Korea, if I would have plans to live there in the first place. Fortunately, I am happy in Japan.

[wangta]

Thanks for the kind comments and apologies to everybody for such a long post. I suppose I just like to explain why I hold the views I do but the posts can run over.

I don't enjoy criticising the racism of Korean society and Koreans because I did live there for some time and as I've said elsewhere, the whingeing that happens on the net re Korea from Engrish teachers tends to have a lot of bullshit mixed in with genuine surprise at Korean discriminatory 'norms'. I'm also not claiming that Korea is terrible and somehow our own countries are pinnacles of respect and equality for different people from all over the world.

But I don't hold out much hope for Korea to change its fundamental views. I am sympathetic to an extent to the hostile segment of the older population who went through the Korean War and then successive military governments. I understand the anti Americanism and anti westerner views but Koreans and their society generally are stuck in a la la land of how Korea was once this superior 'nation' that existed for 5,000 years and was technologically advanced while in the 17th century some European 'invented a scale'. I'm not joking, some of the museums in South Korea might as well be up North going by the propaganda.

Koreans are still taught in the education system that they are the Dai Han Minguk, the Great Korean People or Race as it's often translated who always knew they were one people and one nation. If you try to combat this stupidity by pointing out that in the 19th century Koreans like many other people around the world identified themselves by their families and relatives first and foremost then by village group etc, and that nation states are a new concept in the context of world history, most Koreans refuse to listen.

Again I understand older Koreans but some of those young Koreans dressed in hiphop style and American baseball caps insist on that skewered version of history. Japan's colonisation was dreadful for the Koreans but they honestly believe they were the most oppressed people in the world and simply fail to consider that colonisation on much greater scales occurred in countless countries - sometimes for centuries. Until the Korean education system changes, Korean xenophobia and racism won't change. And left wing parties and politicians actually are often more xenophobic than the conservative ones.

[Isle of View]

. . .

I understand the anti Americanism and anti westerner views but Koreans and their society generally are stuck in a la la land of how Korea was once this superior 'nation' that existed for 5,000 years and was technologically advanced while in the 17th century some European 'invented a scale'. I'm not joking, some of the museums in South Korea might as well be up North going by the propaganda.

. . .

Indeed.

I recall touring some historical palace in Seoul. The guide made a big deal about heated floors - a Korean first according to her.

Pointing out that the classical Romans had this in the 1st century A.D. did not go over well.

Then she pointed out some antique car and implied that cars, planes, bicycles, light bulbs, etc were Korean inventions.

As this point I asked her, why not keep it simple, and only name the few, if any, things that were not invented in Korea.

Which brought the tour to an abrupt and premature end.

Youtube is full of claims [and counterclaims] of Korean misappropriation of culture and technology.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

. . .

I understand the anti Americanism and anti westerner views but Koreans and their society generally are stuck in a la la land of how Korea was once this superior 'nation' that existed for 5,000 years and was technologically advanced while in the 17th century some European 'invented a scale'. I'm not joking, some of the museums in South Korea might as well be up North going by the propaganda.

. . .

Indeed.

I recall touring some historical palace in Seoul. The guide made a big deal about heated floors - a Korean first according to her.

Pointing out that the classical Romans had this in the 1st century A.D. did not go over well.

Then she pointed out some antique car and implied that cars, planes, bicycles, light bulbs, etc were Korean inventions.

As this point I asked her, why not keep it simple, and only name the few, if any, things that were not invented in Korea.

Which brought the tour to an abrupt and premature end.

Youtube is full of claims [and counterclaims] of Korean misappropriation of culture and technology.

C'mon now, let's be fair. The Koreans were world leaders in biotechnolgy...they even cloned a dog! (And didn't eat it!)

[matsuki]

According to the really nutty koreans, injuns like me are really koreans...

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

Youtube is full of claims [and counterclaims] of Korean misappropriation of culture and technology.

Like candy stripe barber poles?

[matsuki]

Koreans and their society generally are stuck in a la la land of how Korea was once this superior 'nation' that existed for 5,000 years and was technologically advanced while....

How do they explain (dare I say "rartionalize?") being Asia's bitch for most of the time after that?

[wangta]

Well, apparently Korea's neighbours always coveted the Land of the Dai Han Minguk and sought to capture it and its unique one blood people - I'm not joking when I say that the more hysterically nationalistic Koreans insist that the Japanese were always planning to invade Korea.

I found that interesting as the Ainu were the original 'Japanese' and they don't seem to have had any special designs on Korea, being too busy fleeing the advancing new peoples. Some of those new peoples of course were from................the land that later became known as Korea. It completely bypasses Koreans' reasoning faculties that thousands of years back and even less than a thousand years back, and even less than that different ethnic groups lived in different lands and never identified themselves as united people whose purpose was to do this and that. They were too busy warring with each other.

Koreans own up to the fact of being a vassal state of China for a very long time - without being able to follow the logical conclusions of that. They emphasise the 'Big Brother' and 'Smaller Brother' relationship and mostly are oblivious to the fact that there was a large and influential Chinese presence to the point that key ruling class segments most certainly would have been Chinese in ethnicity.

The fact was the predominant culture under the long ruling Joseon Dynasty was based on Confucianism, officially rejected Buddhist influence (which is why so many temples are in remote places), intellectual life was based on Chinese tradition, and the Chinese written language was used for just about everything with the Korean Hangeul alphabet not being widely used until nearer the 18th century tho formulated some centuries earlier.

Koreans just about ignore the influence of India back in the day. They rave on about how 'scientific' their own Hangeul alphabet is which was supposedly invented by King Sejong - I think in the 15th century. But non Korean academics have pointed out the strong influence of Sanskrit as well as possibly an alphabet used by an ethnic group called the Jurchens. Koreans acknowledge Buddhism was imported from India but don't want to think about other links (to be fair the Japanese don't either). There were Indian aristocratic families whose women married into Korean aristocratic families but the subject has just about no interest in Korea.

Oh and those bloodthirsty Japanese who always desired Korea were of course invaded by a combined Mongol-Korean force before Hideyoshi's and other's invasions of Korean land. The Mongols ruled Korea for a while and in fact there's a holiday destination, an island called Jeju, where many of the natives are descended from Mongols on at least one side of the family but again, my Korean students couldn't get their heads around the idea that a Mongol colony on Jeju could produce Koreans with Mongolian ancestry but happily accepted that a horse found on Jeju has its ancestry in Mongolia.

There's even an excuse for Koreans invading Japan first under their Mongolian rulers written in the War Museum in Seoul. Apparently the Koreans couldn't help that and that's probably true but if they are so pure blooded and so superior, how come they were being ruled by Mongolians and going on invasionary trips to Japan that they were press ganged into?

[Russell]

Thanks, wangta, for your history lesson.

Didn't know history could be so fun!

BTW, if the Chinese played such a big role in Korea until recent times, isn't it reasonable (from their point of view, that is) to claim Korea as their territory?
Just wondering what is holding back the Chinese.

[Isle of View]

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

If this is true, maybe it goes some way to explaining why A Merkins are so good at fabricating their history...

[wangta]

Thanks, wangta, for your history lesson.

Didn't know history could be so fun!

BTW, if the Chinese played such a big role in Korea until recent times, isn't it reasonable (from their point of view, that is) to claim Korea as their territory?
Just wondering what is holding back the Chinese.

Now here's some more fun - Koreans claim that what we know today as the People's Republic of China's and Russia's territory was actually Korea as well. While of course national boundaries etc have been changed and carved up for centuries especially in Europe for centuries, and of course regions that were ethnically and linguistically distinct fell under the PRC's and Russia's influence, there is no objective proof that north of modern day North Korea was ever some Dai Han Minguk 'empire'.

Koreans try to claim that whole area, other regions in and around parts of the PRC and areas of Russian territory like Siberia as traditionally being theirs. They go on and on about the '3 Kingdoms' periods in Korean history and again conveniently ignore that one of the kingdoms was heavily influenced and ruled by people whose ethnicity was more Chinese than Korean. And that kingdom was smack bang in what is today South Korean territory away from Seoul - Seoul is north.

Koreans say that the kingdom up north in what is now North Korea actually ruled over what is now a significant part of China and extended far beyond the modern day boundaries of Korea, taking in areas of Russia. I taught a really nice man who worked for one of the chaebols (keiritsus in Japan), an intelligent man, who would nevertheless get flustered when he tried to talk Korean history with me about that period. He insisted that the Koreans who fled Korea during Japanese colonisation and went up to Russian territory were 'going back home'. I always disagreed politely.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Do South Koreans chuckle at stories of Kim Jong Il acing every hole on the golf course, or do they believe them?

[matsuki]

Yep yep...exactly why all the native languages sound exactly like Korean

If this is true, maybe it goes some way to explaining why A Merkins are so good at fabricating their history...

Ehhhh, you mean European immigrants fabrication of a "new unsettled world" and bringing civilization to "the savages?"

BTW, this kinda explains why I didn't see as much hate growing up....

http://users.humboldt.edu/mstephens/hate/hate_map.html#

[wangta]

Yes, South Koreans do laugh at the Kims' propaganda. One thing I found interesting was how cynical Koreans are about politicians generally (tho some left wingers achieve almost sainthood status) yet they gobble up every last bit of bullshit about their 'history' on reflex. Other countries' people buy into bullshit too but in democracies there are usually alternative voices that end up becoming mainstream.

I think most of this Korean idiocy comes from a continuous period of military govt from after WW2 to the late 90s, before the left leaning Kim Dae Jung was thankfully elected. He was pragmatic and principled. Korea's military leaders until Kim Dae Jung were very much into the Korean version of national socialism. They copied Japanese propaganda and even under Japanese colonisation there were plenty of Koreans from the ruling classes and what they had of the intellectual class to say that Korea along with Japan was superior to all other 'races'.

But then if you think of North Korea and how it was turned into a totalitarian state by leftists, I honestly believe South Korea might have also gone more down that path with a leftist govt instead of the right wing military one the Allies were happy to help. Koreans are incredibly collectivist. When I first went there I thought that left wing political parties and their reps would be more open minded to non Koreans but in fact on the whole they are usually more xenophobic than conservatives.

For me one South Korean national holiday summarises their problems with reality - Liberation Day where they proclaim they freed themselves from Japan and not one whit of thanks or acknowledgement of the Allies and their defeat of Japan is done publicly. And I never heard any reference to the Allies bringing this about privately or read it in the media.

[GomiGirl]

I was recently in Seoul and met with some Australian friends who were Tokyo expats and now living in Seoul. Just repeating some stories I heard so would be keen to hear from our resident Korean expert as to the accuracy of this sort of thing.

I was really interested in their stories of the kids who are at international school - 100% Korean blood but born in the US. There are apparently many companies offering "Maternity Tourism". So if you have the cash, while pregnant and still allowed to fly you trek over to the US and live in a special hotel owned and operated by Korean companies that offer all the kimchee you can eat and all the comforts of home. Give birth in the US and stay long enough to get the sprog their US passport and then fly home to Korea. Usually a 4-6 month round trip. It is part of the constitution that anybody born in the US is automatically a US citizen.

Why? Well something about the bylaws of international schools say that they must keep a certain percentage of "foreign" students to keep their international school status so lots of Korean kids are denied access to the uber posh, fashionable, private and expensive international school unless they have a foreign passport. Also the kid is able easier access US unversities when they are older. So the expat kids are usually more grounded than these super wealthy local kids.

Also more anecdotes.
Sport - apparently the rich Korean kids don't really get into sport much as it is seen as something that the poor people do.
Plastic Surgery - ALL the uber rich Korean mums with kids at these international schools have had "work" done but all deny it.

[matsuki]

I think most of this Korean idiocy comes from a continuous period of military govt from after WW2 to the late 90s, before the left leaning Kim Dae Jung was thankfully elected. He was pragmatic and principled. Korea's military leaders until Kim Dae Jung were very much into the Korean version of national socialism. They copied Japanese propaganda and even under Japanese colonisation there were plenty of Koreans from the ruling classes and what they had of the intellectual class to say that Korea along with Japan was superior to all other 'races'.

hahahahaha, yeah, the whole military Team [insert cuntry] mentality tends to do that. I still can't believe how militaryish Japanese daily life is now and how most Japanese fail to realize it. Your children are wearing fucking overpriced, outdated, euro military backpacks like they'll never go out of style! Don't even get me started on how how they have managed to militarize baseball.

french_ransel.jpg

001.jpg

Koreans are incredibly collectivist. When I first went there I thought that left wing political parties and their reps would be more open minded to non Koreans but in fact on the whole they are usually more xenophobic than conservatives.

I saw some documentary a few months ago where a scientist was getting attacked for studying intelligence and other traits as they varied by "race." Although I took quite a bit of issue with what her claims were ( her sample set of individuals was way too small and biased) but I couldn't stop laughing when she mentioned Asians and collectivism.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I still can't believe how militaryish Japanese daily life is now and how most Japanese fail to realize it.

Believe it or not, but the Japanese are generally far less overtly militaristic than when I first came here in the 1980s. They are, however, far more nationalistic and militaristic in mentality than they were then. They also tended toward a more global outlook 25 years ago than the insularity becoming pervasive nowadays.
Then, a sensed a reasonably strong difference from other neo-Confucian cuntries/terrortories such as China (still psuedo-Commie then), South Korea and Taiwan (then newly minted democracies) and North Korea (less of a basket case it is now but still the same). Now, with the exception of the extreme poverty of North Korea, I'm not so sure there's such a great diversity of liberal (in the Jacobin sense as opposed to the center-right beliefs that most Merkins associate this word with) thought among any of these countries. Taiwan seems far and away the sanest of all the Confucian cuntries/terrortories.

[Samurai_Jerk]

They also tended toward a more global outlook 25 years ago than the insularity becoming pervasive nowadays.

Thanks to the shitty economy and Muslim terrorism this is a global trend.