Japan solves the unpaid overtime problem!

[Taro Toporific]

40-Hour-Week Exemptions Eyed For Japanese White Collar workers
Behind the fucking Nikkei Paywall
2013aug14 | TOKYO (Nikkei)--Some companies will be allowed to adopt flexible work schedules not bound by 40-hour-per-week rules starting in fiscal 2014 under a deregulation plan being weighed by the government.


Tokyo 2151 by tokyoform, on Flickr

[Russell]

I already have a flexible work schedule.

I can come and go whenever I like, as long as it is at least one hour a day.

In practice, I work my ass off.

[Yokohammer]

I already have a flexible work schedule.

I can come and go whenever I like, as long as it is at least one hour a day.

In practice, I work my ass off.

Similar here.

I'm my own boss, but my boss is an asshole and he works my butt off.

[Coligny]

I'm my own boss, but my boss is an asshole and he works my butt off.

Could be worse... at least he's not sexually harrassing you...


/more seriously
1- they must be joking, since from what I heard... they already spend their life at work...
2- sure it will improve birthrate and family life...
3- death by overwork stats will also certainly improve...
4- will not help with female workers either...

Last time I checked the stats the Japanese productivity was below Italian's... With French near the top with our 5 weeks paid vacations... It's a disguised attempt at sabotage of the whole country ?

[Samurai_Jerk]

Funny because they already have a system where an assumed amount of overtime is included in your monthly fixed income which in effect makes it's very tough to claim overtime pay.

[Coligny]

Funny because they already have a system where an assumed amount of overtime is included in your monthly fixed income which in effect makes it's very tough to claim overtime pay.

A politician not knowing which workers rights laws exist... (not the best worded sentence evur... if any native english speaker care to help, I'll be thankfull)
Like if that was surprising...

[legion]

are they gearing up for zero hours contracts I wonder

[Coligny]

are they gearing up for zero hours contracts I wonder

Full time unemployment ? or slavery ?

[Samurai_Jerk]

In the US where workers don't have the right to paid holidays some companies (especially in the tech industry) are experimenting with completely flexible working hours, no overtime, and taking off as much time as you want whenever you want as long as you're performing well. Apparently this is often resulting in people working more hours and taking less vacation out of fear. It's sort of the reverse of arbeit macht frei.

[matsuki]

In the US where workers don't have the right to paid holidays some companies (especially in the tech industry) are experimenting with completely flexible working hours, no overtime, and taking off as much time as you want whenever you want as long as you're performing well. Apparently this is often resulting in people working more hours and taking less vacation out of fear. It's sort of the reverse of arbeit macht frei.

My father was on something like that until he retired in Jan....he worked from his home office most of the time but I don't think it ended up with much, if any, overtime. He didn't take any vacation time though. He ended up with some huge ass amount of vacation credit (another concept lost in Japan) so even though he's retired, he's still on some awesome company health insurance plan. (and got a huge payout)

[wagyl]

vacation credit (another concept lost in Japan)

That concept is not only lost, it is legislated out of existence. The thinking seems to be that if you could accumulate leave, the employer would not be encouraged to grant you leave this year, postponing your entitlement, so to "protect the workers" they prevented accumulation. Remove the excuse, and employers would grant leave this year, was the theory. It doesn't work out quite like that in practice.

The same thinking prevents you from receiving cash in lieu of leave. The thinking here is that that would encourage employers to exert force on workers to sell their leave entitlements back to the employer, which would be a bad thing, so lets nip that one in the bud.

Net result is that if you don't get the opportunity to use your leave entitlement, it is not accumulated for later, you lose it. And you can't get cash for that lost leave. Guaranteed lose-lose situation.

[Samurai_Jerk]

vacation credit (another concept lost in Japan)

That concept is not only lost, it is legislated out of existence. The thinking seems to be that if you could accumulate leave, the employer would not be encouraged to grant you leave this year, postponing your entitlement, so to "protect the workers" they prevented accumulation. Remove the excuse, and employers would grant leave this year, was the theory. It doesn't work out quite like that in practice.

The same thinking prevents you from receiving cash in lieu of leave. The thinking here is that that would encourage employers to exert force on workers to sell their leave entitlements back to the employer, which would be a bad thing, so lets nip that one in the bud.

Net result is that if you don't get the opportunity to use your leave entitlement, it is not accumulated for later, you lose it. And you can't get cash for that lost leave. Guaranteed lose-lose situation.

Yeah, I was told something similar by a lady I know who works in HR.

[Coligny]

vacation credit (another concept lost in Japan)

That concept is not only lost, it is legislated out of existence. The thinking seems to be that if you could accumulate leave, the employer would not be encouraged to grant you leave this year, postponing your entitlement, so to "protect the workers" they prevented accumulation. Remove the excuse, and employers would grant leave this year, was the theory. It doesn't work out quite like that in practice.

The same thinking prevents you from receiving cash in lieu of leave. The thinking here is that that would encourage employers to exert force on workers to sell their leave entitlements back to the employer, which would be a bad thing, so lets nip that one in the bud.

Net result is that if you don't get the opportunity to use your leave entitlement, it is not accumulated for later, you lose it. And you can't get cash for that lost leave. Guaranteed lose-lose situation.

It's the same as in France...

Except for one more detail...

Any companies with employees not taking their vacation time is subjected to fines. For people not much into summer vacation or spring breaks it create a december blackout in the workforce where people have to use all their vacation time before january 1st.

[yanpa]

A politician not knowing which workers rights laws exist... (not the best worded sentence evur... if any native english speaker care to help, I'll be thankfull)

Apart from the missing apostrophe ("workers' rights") I don't see anything particularly wrong with that sentence...

[wagyl]

A politician not knowing which workers rights laws exist... (not the best worded sentence evur... if any native english speaker care to help, I'll be thankfull)

Apart from the missing apostrophe ("workers' rights") I don't see anything particularly wrong with that sentence...

If I were going to be a picky pedant, which is so very unlikely, I would suggest that the concept of existence is not necessary in the natural expression of a native speaker. I would tend to say "A politician not knowing workers' rights law? Yeah, like that's a surprise."
If you wanted to emphasise that they are reproducing the current law, then maybe "A politician not knowing what workers' rights laws already exist?"

[Coligny]

A politician not knowing which workers rights laws exist... (not the best worded sentence evur... if any native english speaker care to help, I'll be thankfull)

Apart from the missing apostrophe ("workers' rights") I don't see anything particularly wrong with that sentence...

If I were going to be a picky pedant, which is so very unlikely, I would suggest that the concept of existence is not necessary in the natural expression of a native speaker. I would tend to say "A politician not knowing workers' rights law? Yeah, like that's a surprise."
If you wanted to emphasise that they are reproducing the current law, then maybe "A politician not knowing what workers' rights laws already exist?"

Wouldn't "A politician not knowing that workers' rights laws already exist?" be even better ? (at least closer to the french structure...)

or maybe more:

"A politician not knowing which workers' rights laws already exist?"

Threadjack to Beowulf in 3... 2... 1...

[wagyl]

A politician not knowing which workers rights laws exist... (not the best worded sentence evur... if any native english speaker care to help, I'll be thankfull)

Apart from the missing apostrophe ("workers' rights") I don't see anything particularly wrong with that sentence...

If I were going to be a picky pedant, which is so very unlikely, I would suggest that the concept of existence is not necessary in the natural expression of a native speaker. I would tend to say "A politician not knowing workers' rights law? Yeah, like that's a surprise."
If you wanted to emphasise that they are reproducing the current law, then maybe "A politician not knowing what workers' rights laws already exist?"

Wouldn't "A politician not knowing that workers' rights laws already exist?" be even better ? (at least closer to the french structure...)

or maybe more:

"A politician not knowing which workers' rights laws already exist?"

Threadjack to Beowulf in 3... 2... 1...

Justifying my word choice: sounds almost too much like work.....
I chose 'what' instead of 'which' because 'which' sounds more like the politician is choosing which of two or more choices, law A or law B or law C, already exists. Instead, we have the politician not knowing what, if any, is existing. He is not choosing one from a list.

If you were going to use 'that' meaning "that particular law" you need to change law to singular, and English requires the 'that' be doubled, the first that being "the fact that" and the second being "that particular," so we would have "A politician not knowing that that workers' rights law exists." I know that this is a mysterious structure for non natives.

Here endeth the lesson.

[Russell]

Thanks Wagyl for the enlightenment.

I am still left with the question why that that that that your refer to in your post is considered so difficult for us nonnatives...

[wagyl]

I've never been convinced that the Dutch are non natives.

Perhaps you have a similar structure?

That that that that that post referred to is familiar to you?

[Russell]

I've never been convinced that the Dutch are non natives.

Perhaps you have a similar structure?

That that that that that post referred to is familiar to you?

Since both English and Dutch are Germanic languages, they have some similarities. Though English is unique in the class of Germanic languages in the sense that its grammar is relatively simple (this characteristic actually makes it a very powerful language to express oneself in in a clear way).

[Samurai_Jerk]

The 100 hour work week in Japan

At 3 a.m. on Monday morning, Eriko Fujita leaves the IBM offices in Tokyo. She rushes home to take a shower and get a few hours of sleep before she returns to her office at 7 a.m.

This is the hidden side of life at IBM Japan. For a period of eight months, Fujita, whose name has been changed to protect her anonymity, averages 18 to 20 hours of work per day, including Saturdays and Sundays. Her working hours are particularly demanding since she interfaces with programmers in different time zones, including those in the U.S.

“We don't have a 5 o’clock-and-get-out kind of culture,” she says with a shrug. While her schedule depends on the specific project, she says her typical workday lasts about 15 hours.

“I don’t really have a choice,” Fujita says. “If I have a task and I can finish it within eight hours, then I get out. If I cannot, I need to stay.”

Fujita's situation is not uncommon in Japan, where overtime work has increased as firms cut workforces. About 22% of Japanese employees work 50 hours or more each week on average, well above 11% in the U.S., and 6% in Spain, according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.

[...]

In Fujita's case, the long hours became overwhelming. Eventually, she took a three-month leave of absence from IBM.

"I had a mental breakdown," she says. "I was working so hard and not sleeping well. Physically and mentally I got so tired... I was crying for no reason. I didn't know why my tears are coming out."

[...]

In an attempt to address the issue of overtime, the Japanese government has introduced several measures to curb excessive working hours. One plan requires workers to take at least five days of paid vacation per year. For those workers who are paid overtime, another proposal limits the amount of overtime compensation high-income workers receive. Proponents claim this would allow workers to be paid for performance, rather than the number of hours they work. Yet it is unclear what effect this would have, since the motivation for working overtime is often not monetarily based.

Wait. What .... ?

[kurogane]

The 100 hour work week in Japan

For those workers who are paid overtime, another proposal limits the amount of overtime compensation high-income workers receive.[/u] Proponents claim this would allow workers to be paid for performance, rather than the number of hours they work. .

Wait. What .... ?

Nice to hear the government is going to bat for the average worker.



Is it just me or do Japanese economic news reports not get more Orwellian/Kafkaesque every time they announce a new Abenomics Policy Breakthrough? 1890s mining town owners would have been embarassed to announce that proposal, and they paid in company scrip.

[matsuki]

LOL, WTF? No more zangyo pay for you! Now it's sabisu zangyo bitch!!

For all the undercover cops they have on the road, the country sure would benefit from some undercover employment agents in the workforce. Fine the companies and make some arrests of the pervert/abusive managers. Don't they have something like OSHA in Japan?

[wagyl]

Don't they have something like OSHA in Japan?

Thankfully, no, we do not have Thai-Japanese fusion cuisine, subject to Massachusetts Meals Tax, here.

[matsuki]

Don't they have something like OSHA in Japan?

Thankfully, no, we do not have Thai-Japanese fusion cuisine, subject to Massachusetts Meals Tax, here.

In case anyone hasn't caught on....this OSHA
https://www.osha.gov/

[Samurai_Jerk]

Don't they have something like OSHA in Japan?

Thankfully, no, we do not have Thai-Japanese fusion cuisine, subject to Massachusetts Meals Tax, here.

In case anyone hasn't caught on....this OSHA
https://www.osha.gov/

They need something far better than OSHA.

[matsuki]

More employees with balls?

[wagyl]

I thought we were trying to encourage women in the workplace.

Serious answer: a regulatory body like OSHA checks on compliance with the regulations. When you have laws prescribing, as is suggested, a limit on overtime payments for those over a certain income, no amount of regulatory oversight will improve the situation: the base system is being complied with. I am sure you know that there is a Labour Standards Bureau here ... it has been mentioned a few times in past threads. It is a watchdog entirely without any teeth, however.

As a general note "why can't Japan be exactly like the US?" posts do not reflect the maturity you should have after your experiences living outside of your own culture. I am not entirely sure that the US employment system is the absolute best imaginable. Neither, of course, is the Japanese.

[matsuki]

I think the bigger issue is employees willing to be walked all over and accept that type of environment.

[Coligny]

I think the bigger issue is employees willing to be walked all over and accept that type of environment.

When you actully need your job to eat, that tend to happens a lot. Like abusive relationships...