Schoolboy snuff

by **Taro Toporific** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 3:59 pm

Everyday, the J-news is nothing but this...

Schoolboy quizzed in Japan child murder 09 July 2003 STUFF.co.nz
TOKYO: Japanese police are questioning a 12-year-old schoolboy they suspect of involvement in the murder of a four-year-old who died after apparently being thrown off a multi-storey car park... Shun Tanemoto's naked, battered body was found close to a multi-storey car park in the city last week. The police say he was probably thrown from the roof of the building after being spirited away from a shopping mall. Images of the tiny boy in the white cloth hat worn by kindergarteners have appeared everywhere as the crime has dominated domestic media for days.

Fatal tossing of Nagasaki boy follows dog experiment
(Mainichi Shimbun/ July 3, 2003)

by **ramchop** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:15 pm

Is there a minimum age for the death penalty? Some people deserve to just cease existing.

by **GomiGirl** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 4:28 pm

It is like the James Bulger case in the UK. Didn't the boys jest get released recently?

James Bulger

Killers Released

The pair have been granted an open-ended High Court injunction protecting their anonymity with new identities.

by **cstaylor** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:27 pm

So, as far as I understand it from the news, they only have a video of a boy walking along the same street with the victim, some eyewitnesses testifying that they saw the accused near the car park, and one of those infamous Japanese "confessions"...

:: choo choo :: Everyone get on the Japanese justice system railroad express... :roll:

by **Taro Toporific** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 8:31 am

cstaylor wrote:... and one of those infamous Japanese "confessions"...
:: choo choo :: Everyone get on the Japanese justice system railroad express...

Hey CS, how did you know there was going to be a "confession"? :lol:

12-year-old admits killing 4-year-old boy
NAGASAKI, Japan, July 9 (UPI) -- Japanese detectives say a 12-year-old Nagasaki junior high school student has admitted killing a four-year-old boy who was abducted last week.... Investigators told the Kyodo News Agency the boy said he wanted to molest the victim, Shun Tanemoto.

--------

12-year-old admits murdering boy in NagasakiNAGASAKI, July 9, Kyodo -
...The student is a freshman at a junior high school in the city and investigative sources said the police believe he may have also been involved in recent cases of abuse of other young boys.
Under the Criminal Code, children under 14 who are suspected of having committed crimes are not held criminally responsible. The police are thus planning to ask a child welfare center to take over the case in line with the Child Welfare Law. The center has decided to send the case to a family court on Thursday.
Acquaintances of the student said he is a quiet person but panics when cautioned by teachers. There were occasions in which he escaped from the classroom when it seemed like he was about to be scolded by the teacher, they said....

Let's Gets Railroaded! :: choo choo ::

by **Crispy** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:43 am

Well, how young is the youngest person that Japan has ever executed? Anyone know?

by **ramchop** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:53 am

In recent times? Japan's got quite a history.

by **kamome** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:57 pm

They won't execute this kid. Anyone remember the middle school student who beheaded a young boy in Kobe and then placed the head on the front gate of his school to "greet" students and teachers the next morning? That kid wasn't executed, and I believe is supposed to be set free (if he hasn't already). Taro, what's the latest news on that kid?

by **Taro Toporific** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:05 pm

kamome wrote:They won't execute this kid. Anyone remember the middle school student who beheaded a young boy in Kobe and then placed the head on the front gate of his school to "greet" students and teachers the next morning? That kid wasn't executed, and I believe is supposed to be set free (if he hasn't already). Taro, what's the latest news on that kid?

The Beheader will be released Feb. 2004.
This "Tosser" will get the same deal: Youth camp until he reaches 20 yrs and then parole/release. Hell, he'll be out before I can escape Japan Inc.

by **ramchop** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:34 pm

Taro Toporific wrote:The Beheader will be released Feb. 2004.
This "Tosser" will get the same deal: Youth camp until he reaches 20 yrs and then parole/release. Hell, he'll be out before I can escape Japan Inc.

The term used on the news last night was "Medical Reformatory".

Let's Reform with Drugs!

by **momo** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:57 pm

Well...the focus should not be on 'how the boy is to be punished'... I think it is time to relook at the law and put some responsibilities on the parents. As we can see from the news over TV, majority of the children are not willing to share their problems with their parents. I am so disheartened to see such reports. Many parents are too occupied with their own life and work, leaving no time for the children. I am not surprised that kids are now being fulfilled in term of financial and material needs, but deep down in their hearts, they are so empty. Maybe, it is time to relook at family lifestyle.

by **tidbits** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:29 pm

Many parents are too occupied with their own life and work, leaving no time for the children.

Many Japanese mother are housewives, at least not like in some countries where both parents are working. But I think spending time spoilting a child is worst than spending no time with a child.

The boy should be executed, otherwise we will see more and more of these cases. Is not that he doesn't know that he shouldn't kill, but he knew that even he kills nothings would happen to him.

by **katakori** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:45 pm

i would tend to agree that it all comes down to kinship. ie parents, and family in general. everyone, especially children need structure. if school doesn't provide any, and nor do parents, then what can you expect?

(on the other hand, there is the question of "is someone less a threat to society because he/she is a child?")

by **katakori** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 7:53 pm

it has been studied many many times that death penalty does not prevent crime, but make criminals enter a state of mind where they know they can't get killed twice, and therefore enter even more deeply into crime.

killing the kid would just make sure that he can't do it again. if he did it in the first place. but then we should make sure his brothers and sisters get killed too, because they have received the same education??

killing is not really an option. making someone "pay" for the damage could be found a different way. even killing him wouldn't satisfy the mother of the victim...

by **Iambobo** » Thu Jul 10, 2003 9:42 pm

GomiGirl wrote:It is like the James Bulger case in the UK. Didn't the boys jest get released recently?

They were relased a couple of years ago. And yes, they were given new ID's as to prevent people from hate motivated attacks.

The law is 'touchy' when it comes to young offenders, as the age under Brittish law at least for a person to be accountable for their actions is 16 (I think). But It is clear that both the James Bulger and Shun Tanemoto's case, that the juveniles had to be aware that what they were doing was wrong. They should be punished accordingly, but of course, the hard part will be finding which punishment is most fitting.

Right after tragedies like this, the immediate view people share is one of deep hate and resentment towards the suspect. Indeed a punishment like death may seem appropriate, but is it justified? The ultimate blame could lay with the childs parents or friends...12 year old children can be easily manipulated into doing things like this. If indeed this 12 year old suspect is found guilty, he needs to be re-educated...not killed. Besides, death would be a release compaired to having to live with his actions.

by **ramchop** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 8:43 am

Prior to last week I was very much against the death penalty. This case just make me want to weep. Anger is a much easier emotion to deal with than grief. I'm now in favour of the death penalty. (if only there weren't the odd innocent convict)

There are 5 billion people in the world. We can afford to be cold and heartless about a few individuals. It's not about punishment or prevention. It's about removing those who the world would be better off without.

by **kamome** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 12:29 pm

I have to say, if I were the parent of that 4 yr. old victim, I would want to exact my own death penalty on the killer, no matter the age.

However, there's something scary about state-sanctioned murder of 12 year olds. There are other ways to punish him/make him a nonparticipating member of society without having to kill him.

by **DJEB** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:14 pm

katakori wrote:it has been studied many many times that death penalty does not prevent crime, but make criminals enter a state of mind where they know they can't get killed twice, and therefore enter even more deeply into crime.

killing the kid would just make sure that he can't do it again. if he did it in the first place. but then we should make sure his brothers and sisters get killed too, because they have received the same education??

killing is not really an option. making someone "pay" for the damage could be found a different way. even killing him wouldn't satisfy the mother of the victim...

On August 1st, 1997, Mark Kruger entered my family's cottage in Muskoka, Canada and struck my father on the head with a pipe then stabbed him 6 times in the chest, dragged the body outside and buried it in a pile of leaves. The body was discovered 6 days later when Kruger ran a police contraband checkpoint in Saskachewan that he thought was meant for him.

I could never be able to describe how this turned my life inside out. The things that the family needs to settle after an event like that are arduous to say the least.

That being said, I never wanted the death penalty. Many of the people I met would say things like "That little bastard should be strung up by his balls and beaten to death!" Well, the last thing someone who has just suffered a violent death in their family wants to hear is someone endorsing more violence.

The killer was a mental patient who was booted out of hospital because the Ontario government wanted to cut social services (the same government that gave us back a 60 hour work week). So, this guy was out in the public without his medication, and he killed. He never stood trial, which means that he was held in observation for 2 years then released. I think two years is too short and the death penality is immoral and unnecessary. I've heard of some courts in western Canada experimenting in participatory justice where the victims and the criminal decide on the punishment with the court. Something like that would have made me feel a lot better, I think.

There is only one reason to kill: in self-defense or defense of others. Those are on-the-spot situations, but there is no cause to kill a prisoner. The death penalty is not a deterent; the only reason to kill is to make some people feel better, which is certainly not a moral argument for killing.

by **American Oyaji** » Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:36 pm

ramchop wrote:Prior to last week I was very much against the death penalty. This case just make me want to weep. Anger is a much easier emotion to deal with than grief. I'm now in favour of the death penalty. (if only there weren't the odd innocent convict)

There are 5 billion people in the world. We can afford to be cold and heartless about a few individuals. It's not about punishment or prevention. It's about removing those who the world would be better off without.

I agree. It's not about prevention at all. If someone wants to do something, they will do it. But for those that CANNOT follow the rules of society, society must put them out of their misery.

I agree with the death penalty.

by **DJEB** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 7:29 am

American Oyaji wrote:
I agree. It's not about prevention at all. If someone wants to do something, they will do it. But for those that CANNOT follow the rules of society, society must put them out of their misery.

I agree with the death penalty.

As I said above, the argument for the death penalty is arguing in favour of killing to make some people feel better - not a very good argument.

by **maraboutslim** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 9:10 am

American Oyaji wrote: I agree with the death penalty.

What happened to all that Christian stuf you were talking about last week? I mean, there are a lot of things in the bible that are open to interpretation but "thou shall not kill" isn't one of them.

-Slim

by **GargoyleTS** » Sat Jul 12, 2003 6:38 pm

Slim, a man can disagree with his religion. For my bit, it says "THOU shalt not kill". Doesn't say anything about making others refrain from killing. But that's heretical, and some word I can't remeber meaning interpreting the word of god for ones own benefit (I know there is a word for it, but cannot find it). Personally, still out on the whole religion issue. But I do prefer the "do unto others..." bit. I like being nice to people. Its fun and much more enjoyable when they return the favor.

by **ramchop** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:11 pm

DJEB wrote:As I said above, the argument for the death penalty is arguing in favour of killing to make some people feel better - not a very good argument.

I disagree. I'm not arguing in favour to make people feel better.

If a dog bites someone it often gets put down. It may not bite someone again but the risk of keeping this dangerous animal in society is too great. The dog didn't kill anyone, but it might do next time.

Cold-blooded murderers are more dangerous than dogs. True you may be able to rehabilitate them.... but not without a massive overhaul of the prison system which simply is not going to happen before the current psychopaths are freed.

by **ramchop** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 12:45 pm

ramchop wrote:It's not about punishment or prevention.

... there's two ways you can view prevention.

One is "if there's a death penalty, I'm sure as hell not going to kill anyone. I don't want to die"

- the death penalty will not achieve this form of prevention

Two is "I've killed someone, now I'm in prison about to die. Guess I can't kill again"

- the death penalty will achieve this form of prevention.

by **DJEB** » Sun Jul 13, 2003 7:23 pm

ramchop wrote:
DJEB wrote:As I said above, the argument for the death penalty is arguing in favour of killing to make some people feel better - not a very good argument.

I disagree. I'm not arguing in favour to make people feel better.

If a dog bites someone it often gets put down. It may not bite someone again but the risk of keeping this dangerous animal in society is too great. The dog didn't kill anyone, but it might do next time.

If someone is in prison under proper supervision, they are no threat to society. Thus the death penalty is unnecessary. This is of course forgetting the scores of wrongfully condemned.

ramchop wrote:Cold-blooded murderers are more dangerous than dogs. True you may be able to rehabilitate them.... but not without a massive overhaul of the prison system which simply is not going to happen before the current psychopaths are freed.

I am not an expert on the prison system, so I don't really know what it takes to rehabilitate people, but I also don't know that it would take a massive restructuring of the system.

by **GomiGirl** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 1:44 pm

Oh the joy of another emotionally charged and polarising thread.

I used to be fairly ambivelent towards the death penalty.. now I don't think it serves much purpose except as a political football.

It doesn't prevents violent crime IMHO and I think that it is just there to make people feel better if they have been a victim or worse to satisfy the blood-lust of the masses disguised as justice. People love a good gassin' as it makes them feel better about themselves that they are not as bad as the evil-doer that deserves to die.

And then the politicians use these feelings to get themselves re-elected.

But the sad honest truth is that if you commit a heinous crime and you have money for a good lawyer, you will not get the death penalty - probably life. But if you have to use a court appointed lawyer you will probably get to see death row up close and personal. So it is a good way of cleaning out the poor undesirables from our society in a sanitized and state sanctioned method.

ramchop wrote:Cold-blooded murderers are more dangerous than dogs. True you may be able to rehabilitate them.... but not without a massive overhaul of the prison system which simply is not going to happen before the current psychopaths are freed.

I doubt that rehabilitation is possible.. but then it costs the state a heap more money to execute somebody than to keep people lokced up for 30-40 years.. tis true, and the yukky kiddy rapists/murderers don't last very long inside anyways.

But once the damage is done - ie the evil person has been created by circumstance or just personal preference, then I doubt there is much turning back. Lock em up and let em live like animals in prison.. more time and energy should be spent on prevention before the crimes are even contemplated and before the damage is done.

The death penalty speaks more about ourselves than the people who are executed.

by **Taro Toporific** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:13 pm

ramchop wrote:Cold-blooded murderers are more dangerous than dogs. True you may be able to rehabilitate them.... but not without a massive overhaul of the prison system which simply is not going to happen before the current psychopaths are freed.

But wait, there's more...

12-yr-old murder suspect admits molesting another boy
Yomiuri Shimbun July 16
The 12-year-old middle school student suspected of murdering a 4-year-old boy in Nagasaki early this month has told investigators he molested a 3-year-old boy at a shopping mall in the city in late April, The Yomiuri Shimbun learned.

The case occurred at a mall about one kilometer north of the large electrical appliance store where Shun Tanemoto was abducted on July 1, police said.

The assailant reportedly forced the boy to take off his clothes and discarded them. Tanemoto's body was naked when it was found.

by **katakori** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 12:55 pm

this is almost as fun as a murakami ryu novel...

by **kamome** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 1:38 pm

GomiGirl wrote:It doesn't prevent violent crime...

...if you commit a heinous crime and you have money for a good lawyer, you will not get the death penalty - probably life. But if you have to use a court appointed lawyer you will probably get to see death row up close and personal. So it is a good way of cleaning out the poor undesirables from our society in a sanitized and state sanctioned method.

...But once the damage is done - ie the evil person has been created by circumstance or just personal preference, then I doubt there is much turning back. Lock em up and let em live like animals in prison..

...The death penalty speaks more about ourselves than the people who are executed.

Yes, these are all good arguments. Nobody has addressed the issue I raised: should the state sanction killing of 12 year olds who commit capital crimes?

Oyaji: if you say "Yes" to this, then it wwould be awfully hard to defend a pro-life stance in my opinion.

by **ramchop** » Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:36 pm

kamome wrote:Nobody has addressed the issue I raised: should the state sanction killing of 12 year olds who commit capital crimes?

No. And despite my rash utterances above, I don't agree with the death penalty. However, I don't feel the prison system in any country actually works the way it should. I don't have a solution... the current mindset seems to be punish people so they won't do it again. But they do do it again, and that's why I'm finding myself sympathising with those who push for the death penalty.

So the choice seems to be:

- don't descend to their level. You're human, be humane. And occassionally innocent people will die when the criminals are set free.

or

- they're not human, don't treat them as human. Execute them or never ever let them out of their cage again.

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Schoolboy snuff

Schoolboy snuff

Let's Gets Railroaded! :: choo choo ::

The Tosser

Re: The Tosser

Schoolboy quizzed in Japan child murder

talking to myself

Why would 12yr old want to molest a 3-year-old boy?

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