Japan's iPhone Wannabe - Nani?

[Mulboyne]

Tech: Japanese smartphone to challenge iPhone
It's hard to look at a multimedia phone like the upcoming nani from Japan's Sophia without making comparisons with Apple's just-launched attention seeking iPhone. Due to be unveiled at the Wireless Japan 2007 exhibition tomorrow, the nani's most prominent feature is a large touch-sensitive screen that - at 4.3 inches - beats the iPhone by almost an inch. The resolution is also more impressive, at 800 x 400 pixels, compared to 480 x 320 on the Apple device. The rest of the package, however, seems unlikely to pass muster, although it may have sounded cutting edge a year ago. The processor runs at 600MHz and there's Wi-Fi, dual cameras and a digital terrestrial tuner. Memory comes in the form of a microSD card with no internal user storage at all...more...

[madfuku]

[Charles]

..The resolution is also more impressive, at 800 x 400 pixels, compared to 480 x 320 on the Apple device...

There's a limit to how much resolution is useful. I have to put on my close-vision reading glasses to read the tiny type on my iPhone.

[Kuang_Grade]

In reality, and it pains me to say, the ugly Microsoft Zune got more on the iPhone than this thing. Microsoft, oddly enough has enough of the required elements available to it to pull off a true iPhone/iPod competitor.

[YT]aeXAcwriid0[/YT]

While they may have the elements, they'll never assemble them into a whole package that works well...They'll always stick somthing in that is designed to push software that limits its usefulness for a large portion of the population (well, it sort of works on XP but to get the full experience you need directX23alpha only available in vista super mega ultimate). And given MS's big push for play for sure and then having their own product, the Zune, not support it doesn't show much of commitment to either their customers or content vendors. Outside of mice/keyboards/joysticks, has MS actually produced a non-software consumer product that was profitable and/or actually lasted on the market for more than 2 years? (the xbox1 lasted 4 years but lost how many billions?)

[madfuku]

Kuang_Grade, man that video was awesome, sooooo Microsoft.

Now, I will preface with the fact I can't stand Microsoft products in general. I have Vista polluting space on a partition on my MacBook Pro just to run some Windows only Japanese program I use.

That out of the way, I really like the XBOX 360, sure its a piece of crap quality wise and boy its really ugly, but my PS3 just keeps gathering dust except to play some AVCHD files from my Panasonic HD Video Camera and honestly, my WII while neat to play the classics hasn't been turned on in over three months.

The XBOX on the other hand, gets a lot more use despite its shortcomings, namely being a MS product. I learned awhile back that Microsoft does keep at it, and after awhile they start to make an impact and eventually demand a pretty significant market-share.

The Zune is far from dead (to Microsoft) they intend to make a cell phone version. Sure it will suck, but they will keep at it.

Which reminds me, when I was in college, Netscape was all the rage and my University refused to allow IE on there network (not that I wanted it). Then in the Palm heyday, everyone said, that PocketPCs would never go anywhere, Palm rules. MS can't get anything done right (and its still junk btw) but then look at the market today. Palm who?

Now I am not saying the Zune as it is will be any great threat to the iPod/iTunes of today or even the iPhone no-less. I am just saying that I would not be surprised to see Microsoft as the main competitor to Apple's iTunes + Devices phenomena. Even if by sheer determination and money alone, aka XBOX to PS.

And I definitely see nothing coming from Japan from anyone, the Japanese market is on the verge of being completely iPodified with Apple now holding over 60% of the markets mp3 player sales and iTunes is on its way to eclipse Japanese equivalents to the dismay of SONY [CONNECTS]. iTunes has already blown through that and is the market leader in online music sales in Japan.

But hey, we are in the technology capital of the world... We don't need no stinking products that anyone other than the Japanese would buy, do we? after all, we have 3G.

Boo Hoo For Who?

[maninjapan]

Xbox360 ugly? compared to what?!


Have had Japanese frie4nds come over and comment on how much better looking it is than the ps3 or Wii.

The iPhone will only really take off over here due to loyalty. Look at the blackberry when it was "released" over here. That had a huge following in the states and in Europe, yet due to lack of functionality *(see Japanese language support) and also thanks to the standard of the current set up of the phones, everything it offered was already being offered.

Now while the iPhone is impressive - the way Apple think people will actively use iTunes on the go is a bit presumptious. Japan, as a whole, has taken to iTunes, something crazy about 1mil downloads in 4day wasn't it; however, the download speed for mobile phones really has to be increased - otherwise people are going to be hit with HUGE phone bills - unless the companies do a limit on packet downloads, like SoftBank at the moment offer.

Didn't AU offer 4Gb music player/mobile phone at one point? How do that take off?

[madfuku]

I feel you. And, you are right compared to the PS3 which is pretty damn big and heavy, not to mention an odd shape too. My Japanese friends are so into the XBOX 360, they don't even notice my PS3 (sad actually).

I must have weird Japanese friends though, none of them actively buy music or ring-tones off their keitai's and all have iTunes accounts and iPods. Which means they are synching their iPods with their computers anyway and won't actually be using the 3G network to acquire music or media of this type.

Look at it this way. This really is no different with the iPhone, an iPod with a phone feature. Back to the whole central repository of media idea. I got over 700GB of music and videos both legal and not so legal, there's no way a hand held device is going to serve as my central purchase point or media management point, and it won't in Japan either.

That task would have to be left to a real computer or media center. If you are going to buy a few songs and vids then sure, the keitai is great but have no hope that it will display on anything other than your little keitais screen nicely. BTW, I have purchased videos via my keitai's and they don't look so hot.

In reality, the bigger money comes from consumers building electronic media library's (eventually online rentals like XBOX Live). Japanese style keitai purchases are not the way to go for either. Both from the consumer perspective, its only an advantage to the media distributor. If you purchase via keitai you are getting a lower quality product (resolution) for a higher price (media fee, packets) and fewer methods to view said media not to mention fewer eyeballs that can see it.

On the other hand when I buy anything from Apple , I can view it on my iMac, MacBook Pro, Windows PC my GF iMac using 4 out of 5 of my rights licenses AND it also is viewable on my 3 iPods, my iPhone and my TV (via Apple TV) WITHOUT using any of my rights licenses. So that's 1 purchase, viewable on "9" different devices. Bang... So much for that keitai media center idea.

The Japanese way is not the path to a long term success in the digital media market which is steadily being remodeled in Japan by the likes of Apple and in the Keitai world by Softbank with their crazy cell phone rate shakeup and who is the inevitable distributor of the iPhone itself in Japan.

DoCoMo incidentally is jumping through hoops to try to become the iPhones distributor because it really is a game changer here in Japan. You may believe it is another yawner like the Blackberry but I view it as a breath of fresh air in the overpriced over-hyped domestic keitai market.

And not to beat this thing to much, BUT, people in Japan who own iPods also own pretty powerful keitais that already can buy and play music right from their handset. I would venture to say, 100% of iPod owners in Japan also have music and video capable keitais... Why on earth did they buy that darn iPod then or any mp3 player for that matter? I mean after all, they have to D/L and synch the media from a computer don't they? and the success of the iTunes store, against all odds (uncooperative labels) in Japan tells a very interesting story.

I think its a long shot to compare a Blackberry to an iPhone in Japan. I have a Blackberry for my business here and well, it sucks royally. The iPhone is much more inline with the Japanese consumer psyche than a Blackberry could ever be (it wasn't ever designed to be either). One is a hardcore no frills business only device with little attention to mass consumer appeal and is in a universe all by itself, with a killer feature being a tactile keyboard and push email. Its a business device through and through.

Most people in Japan use there keitais as an escape from reality, playing games, listening to music, viewing porn or making it , texting each other and good stuff like that. The Blackberry brings nothing to the table in dreamland Japan and even Japanese salarymen pull out there ketais so they can view the hentai not catch up with the stocks they don't own or get to those final emails they missed at the office, no way.

The iPhone is at the other end of that equation, albeit in its own world as well, it is the result of two already successful in Japan stories, the iPod and iTunes, and even further, the view of the Apple brand as a very desirable piece of electronic jewlery. Blackberry, ain't any of that and neither are most of the keitai's in our market.

There are people in Japan today buying iPhones even though they don't work, just look at yahoo auctions Japan. I really don't worry about Apple here in Japan. In fact, they are one of very FEW foreign companies to get things done right here... but wait, they really didn't change a thing for the Japanese market did they... they just transplanted the way they do business in the US to Japan and holy crap, it actually worked.

I don't know, it must be me, but I like the way things are changing. It's starting to feel like consumers are making progress now and Apple is breaking up a lot of the old school media and keitai monopolies here in Japan. They will help push cell rates down and eliminate the packet fee nonsense and bring flat rates to Japan. Or did we think DoCoMo had an epiphany...

But hey, at least both the XBOX 360 and PS3 serve as pretty good speaker stands in my setup I wonder how long it will take for my speaker to erase my XBOX 360 HDD



But once again, I've said too much

[GomiGirl]

I think its a long shot to compare a Blackberry to an iPhone in Japan. I have a Blackberry for my business here and well, it sucks royally. The iPhone is much more inline with the Japanese consumer psyche than a Blackberry could ever be (it wasn't ever designed to be either). One is a hardcore no frills business only device with little attention to mass consumer appeal and is in a universe all by itself, with a killer feature being a tactile keyboard and push email. Its a business device through and through.

Never been a blackberry fan myself... never was a palm fan either. They were well marketed but in terms of actual smarts, both are sorely lacking.

Most people in Japan use there keitais as an escape from reality, playing games, listening to music, viewing porn or making it , texting each other and good stuff like that. The Blackberry brings nothing to the table in dreamland Japan and even Japanese salarymen pull out there ketais so they can view the hentai not catch up with the stocks they don't own or get to those final emails they missed at the office, no way.

Amen.. but for humble content developers such as myself, Japan is a good market to be in.

I am keen to see the iPhone - mainly just interested to see what stuff I can put on it. We have lots of legacy Newton Apps that can be ported and will be fab on the iPhone.

But once again, I've said too much

Not at all - keep them posts coming my friend.

[madfuku]

Damn, I thought I was the only one who liked the Newton. I actually have one I bought way back in 1994... Yeah, I admit it, I am a technology whore.

FYI: I am in the software industry myself here in Japan, non-consumer related. In my formative years I fancied myself a mainframe programmer.

[Taro Toporific]

[madfuku]

This is what I like to see

To sum it up:

"iPhone: Japan needs 3G" - this one is perplexing to me, if it doesn't have 3G it can't possibly EVER be released in Japan. Thus, it is obvious it will support 3G in Japan otherwise it wouldn't ever BE released here... duh.

"iPhone: Japan needs a worse browser"
"iPhone: Japan needs emoji"
"iPhone: Japan needs a retro keyboard"
"iPhone: Japan needs a strap hook"
"iPhone: Japan has it all already"
"iPhone: Japan doesn’t need…"
"Conclusion: Next year we will see a SoftBank Apple iPhone which while it may not replicate the roaring success of the iPhone in the USA or of the iPod in Japan, it will make a definite impact and change the face of the Japanese cell phone market. " - huh?

So basically, the guy says the iPhone is not a strong product and the Japanese probably won't buy it, BUT it will probably do well anyway and it will probably change the mobile market in Japan...

So it will be all things, horrible, good, bad, successful, a failure. Wow.

BTW, I used my /somewhat almost maybe good crappy not needed in Japan/ iPhone to type this post on the keyboard that doesn't work at a bar that has an open WIFI signal. Unfortunately my Japanese friends where shocked to find that there was no strap hook on the iPhone and are totally put off by that massively unforgivable oversight :P stating that a phone is only as good as how many trinkets you can attach to it.

[Charles]

[maninjapan]

BTW, I used my /somewhat almost maybe good crappy not needed in Japan/ iPhone to type this post on the keyboard that doesn't work at a bar that has an open WIFI signal. Unfortunately my Japanese friends where shocked to find that there was no strap hook on the iPhone and are totally put off by that massively unforgivable oversight :P stating that a phone is only as good as how many trinkets you can attach to it.

yes yes WE ALL KNOW YOU HAVE AN iPhone.

:P

To be fair - I can easily see Softbank splashing the cash, considering that in May their white plan had the most new subscribers out of all the networks. The problem they face though now is a shocking level of coverage. My reception goes down quicker than a thai prostitute in a back allley in Kabukicho.
The cost would be the biggest issue - its crazy to think that people were/are prepared to pay 600$ just for a phone/mp3 in the states.

Did AT&T subsidize that at all? If so, reckon softbank/AU/DoCoMo would do that over here to help bring the price down a little?

It's not like the UK where the companies subsidize the phones and charge a little more for calls to cover the cost. The companies in the Japan very rarely subsidize AND whack on the calls.

Personally, I would first prefer the networks to be a little more transparent with one another really than any more phones on the market.

[ttjereth]

All I want is a good Japanese phone with a decent web browser and email (not i-mode mail etc.) access.

Don't care about music, movies, etc.

What service provider are the people with the i-phone here in Japan using??

[L S]

I've owned and lived by a Blackberry (and hated it), always had the latest Docomo or J-phone that was offered, but the iPhone is truly a vastly different use experience. I have used my friend's iPod and played with them in Apple stores and loved it despite trying to will myself not to. If I was still living in the Big Mikan I think it would be enourmously useful...the perfect keitai for big city living. For both business and just getting around and finding stuff with the real browser and map functionality it rocks...let alone all the other functionality. That being said, I am waiting for 2nd gen iPhone before I buy. Got to get those bugs out first.

[madfuku]

Did AT&T subsidize that at all?

According to some lawmakers in washington who are reviewing the iPhone termination fee in defense of consumer rights mainly because they claim it is NOT a subsidized device. Thus rendering the termination fee questionable as it is not evidentially covering an actual monetary loss.

However, no one knows for sure yet. But it seems unlikely considering the estimated production costs (little over $200) and Apple's strong grip on its products overall.

It seems from what the AT&T analyst say, Apple is getting a cut on new subscriber sales. Which sounds very Apple, rather than taking a short term gain they bet on the handsets widespread adoption and growth overtime (read no subsidy).

IMHO since the Apple store is selling the handset and the entire activation process was changed in favor of a method Apple wanted I don't think AT&T would offer any subsidy as Apple has inserted itself dead center between the consumer and the carrier. That is a major shift in how carriers do business and shouldn't be underestimated.

Also, Apple has a pretty consistent global pricing strategy which would be hard to follow if they had the product subsidized as it could be grossly different in every market.

But, we should know for sure enough as both companies are due to have investor calls.

[Mulboyne]

[GomiGirl]

As somebody who has reseached this first hand in both of these markets, I would say that the main reason for the failure was that they handsets were only available from the carrier's own stores and not from the discount shops like Carphone Warehouse. The stores were few and far between and not all of them carried the i-mode range. Also the price of the handsets was higher than the standard WAP enabled handsets. Plus when you spoke to staff in the stores that had the handsets, they hadn't a clue what they were all about and the features and benefits of i-mode. Poor planning and exectution on all fronts IMHO.

I was informed by both O2 and Telstra this week as we have contracts with both. Am expecting the StarHub in Singapore will be the next to pull out.

[American Oyaji]

GG, I would think you would be a in a prime position (being Australian) to slip into an advisory role at DoCoMo to help them shore up the dam. It would not be a conflict of interest either since you develop apps, not phone networks.

[L S]

[American Oyaji]

They were ahead of their time. Or more to the point, they did not wait for the market to develop, or they did not develop the market sufficiently before releasing stuff sometimes.

[GomiGirl]

Damn, I thought I was the only one who liked the Newton. I actually have one I bought way back in 1994... Yeah, I admit it, I am a technology whore.

We were the Japanese Newton distributor back in the day. We still have a heap of stuff lying about - spare parts, software, accessories.. need anything?

I did hear there was a Newton revival conference in Tokyo last week while I was away. Some clever dick has ported the OS to Linux and so is not reliant on the hardware. It will still run the old apps etc. It was a fab machine - way ahead of its time and was cancelled way too soon.

Check this for a very old poster featuring my brother.
http://saryo.org/basuke/newton-never-dies/poster.html

[madfuku]

GomiGirl I think I am in love

Oh man I still mess around with my Newton every now and then. It was way ahead of its time. I actually took notes with it in college and still have every single note.

I can't believe I almost became a lawyer looking back at those notes...

Thats a great poster, btw.

[IkemenTommy]

Oh... nani?

[hundefar]

I still mess around with my Newton every now and then.

Yeaaaah, I'm messing around with my "Newton" right now...ooooh.

[madfuku]

Got my hands on a Sophia Nani yesterday at an ad agency my company work's with and it was like holding a brick. Damn, this thing was big. Its at least 20% bigger than the iPhone and double the thickness maybe more. Side by side the iPhone almost sat in the screen of this device.

The OS is a mess, basically imagine Windows XP (Its CE of course) on a tiny screen and all the beauty that brings to a cell phone and you got yourself a Nani.

The phone specific GUI was equally horrid and I can't see how anyone could like it, PocketPC interfaces look much better. But this thing is really trying to be a tiny laptop computer on a phone. These things are unlikely to be flying off anybody's shelves and is of no threat to the iPhone or any phone for that matter.

As for scratch resistence, this thing uses pretty cheap material all around, it reminds me of the low quality plastic fad on Japanese keitai's especially two or three years ago. A very non-scratch resistent screen to boot. But considering how big it is you may want to carry it in its own little laptop bag

I am also pretty sure the battery life s dismal as it ran really hot as I was surfing the web in IE6 and I could actually see the battery display drop by 1/3 in about 15 minutes of use. IE6 on this thing is just that, a trashy IE6 except tiny, there is no intelligent features like Safari on the iPhone just a plain browser.

I tried to take a picture side-by-side with my iPhone but the ad guys where totally against that, rightly so as they got a uphill battle ahead of them.

[Mulboyne]

PCWorld: Japanese Device Challenges iPhone

Apple Inc.'s iPhone may still have the world's heart aflutter, despite a sharp price cut that stiffed early adopters and the recent release of a software update that turned some unlocked iPhones into electronic bricks. But there's more to the world of cell phones than Apple, and users outside Japan are missing out on some of the nicest-looking and most sophisticated phones ever made. Japanese operator KDDI Corp. laid out the best that Japan's cell-phone industry has to offer at the Ceatec exhibition held this week in Chiba, Japan. Among the handsets attracting the most attention from visitors was the funky-looking Infobar 2, a KDDI handset with cutting-edge features that will hit the market in November for around 20,000 yen, not including the cost of a service contract.

Inspired by the look of a melting candybar, the Infobar 2 has a 2.6-inch LCD (liquid crystal display) screen that offers resolution of 240 pixels by 400 pixels, a 2-megapixel camera, 100M bytes of internal storage, and a microSD slot for memory cards containing music or other files. The cost of microSD cards has fallen in step with memory prices. A 2G-byte card now costs around US$20, and prices will continue to fall even as capacities rise over time. That's less storage capacity than the 8G-byte hard disk inside the $399 iPhone, but how many songs can one person listen to during the course of the day, or on vacation? The Infobar 2, which comes in four color schemes, also has an embedded Felica smart chip for electronic payments. Approximately half of all new phones sold in Japan come with these chips, and Java applets are available that allow Felica-based phones to pay for subway trips and train tickets, as well as make purchases at convenience stores, vending machines, and restaurants. The Felica system also allows Japanese air travellers who are registered with an airline's frequent-flier program to use their phones in lieu of a boarding pass on domestic flights.

There are similarities between the Infobar 2 and iPhone. For example, both handsets are tied to an operator, allowing tighter integration between the handset and mobile services available to subscribers. But much of the technology used with the Infobar 2 is one or more generations ahead of the iPhone. Unlike the iPhone, the Infobar 2 doesn't have support for Wi-Fi but with KDDI's CDMA2000-1X EV-DO network, who needs it? Phone users can surf the Internet or send e-mails nearly anywhere in Japan at speeds up to 2.4M bps (bits per second). By comparison, AT&T Wireless Inc., the exclusive provider of the iPhone in the U.S., says the EDGE network used with the iPhone offers average download speeds of 70K bits per second (bps) to 135K bps -- hardly speeds that set your pulse racing.

When users get bored of sending e-mails with the Infobar 2, they can watch digital-television broadcasts. These broadcasts are free and are available across the country, with different channels available in each region. In Tokyo, there are seven channels available to viewers: two from public broadcaster NHK and five commercial channels. In addition, each television broadcast includes a data stream of related information, such as a ticker of headlines that runs alongside a news broadcast or subtitles for a drama, a handy feature for users prone to leaving their earphones at home.

Of course, Apple's iPhone is more than just a phone: the device is still a music player at heart. But Japanese operators have developed music-download services that outshine the iTunes Store, giving users the option of downloading music directly to their handsets, for example. Users can access KDDI's Lismo music store from their handsets or their PCs, and the software will synchronize files stored on the two devices when they are connected. You can also copy songs from a CD in your collection to Lismo. And when you change phones, Lismo lets you copy all of your songs to the new handset. One cool feature of the Lismo service is the search function. You can search by artist or song title, but you can also find a song if you don't know its name or who sings it. Just hum part of the song into your handset and Lismo will match the song you hum with a music file in its database.

Song prices on Lismo, which average about 300 to 400 yen, are roughly twice what iTunes charges in Japan. But music CDs are generally more expensive here, costing approximately 3,000 yen. And song files purchased on Lismo can also be used as ringtones. That's not the case with iTunes: if you want to use a song as an iPhone ringtone you must buy a second file at the same price as the original. KDDI claims Lismo offers a wider range of Japanese songs than iTunes. That's partly because iTunes does not offer songs from Japanese artists in Sony Corp.'s catalog, which includes many of the best-known and most popular Japanese artists.

Granted, the Infobar 2's design may not be for everybody. Most Japanese cell-phone users prefer clamshell designs, and the Infobar 2 is not available to subscribers of NTT DoCoMo Inc., Japan's largest operator. But that doesn't mean users have to forego these features: Felica, digital television, and music download services like Lismo are available on dozens of handset models that support high-speed 3G (third-generation) networks run by KDDI, DoCoMo, and Softbank Mobile Corp. Apple and other handset makers outside Japan, as well as mobile operators, have some catching up to do.