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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Tokyo Tech

Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

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Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Mike Oxlong » Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:46 pm

Are Japan's Minicars a Trade Barrier?
Nation's Preference for Ultrasmall Autos Poses Hurdle for Foreign Auto Makers: Minicars such as Honda's N Box were 34% of Japan's passenger cars
Japan's auto market, once a global trend setter, has become one of the most disconnected from markets elsewhere, putting it at risk of becoming irrelevant, say executives here.

More than 90% of cars sold in Japan are Japanese brands. A third of them—ultralight minicars—are sold nowhere else. Originally developed to fill Japan's need for cheap cars after World War II, they are too small or too expensive for other markets.

The country's singularly strong appetite for fuel-efficient cars means car makers have developed a series of advanced technologies, such as hybrid cars, that don't necessary translate easily elsewhere.

Japan has no tariffs on auto imports. Japanese auto executives say the country's unique tastes are a big reason for global auto makers' failure to thrive in the world's third largest auto-buying country, after China and the U.S. Foreign auto executives say the country's preferential tax treatment for minicars and its unique safety and environmental regulations are nontariff barriers that protect the country from foreign competition.

For the third straight year, the Detroit Three auto makers skipped the Tokyo Motor Show; General Motors Co. head in Japan said showing up made little economic sense when weighed against GM's sales here.

In some ways, the auto industry's love of minicars here is reminiscent of Japanese smartphone makers, which geared features heavily toward Japanese consumers and struggled to make headway overseas. Their shortcomings led to the coining of the term "Galápagos" to describe the market, like the group of islands cataloged by Charles Darwin : uniquely evolved and ultimately at a disadvantage because of its isolation

Japanese auto makers such as Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co. and Nissan Motor Co. sell plenty of cars around the world and have mastered global design and tastes with well-regarded luxury cars, sport-utility vehicles and pickup trucks. Nevertheless, some executives here worry that catering too strongly to demand at home leaves them at risk of being unable to switch gears quickly—especially as many global auto makers introduce new models in as many countries as possible to develop economies of scale.

"The Japanese market is Galápagos," said Shigeru Shoji, chief executive of Volkswagen Group Japan KK, on the sidelines of the Tokyo Motor Show. "You can test things in Japan. But even if it turns out to be an attractive product in Japan, it would be hard to make it a universal and global product," he said. That can hurt Japanese car makers, which have been slow to offer large luxury vehicles in China and diesel engines cars in Europe.

Others say the specialization makes it tough for outsiders, who must adapt their cars to sell here. "Japan is a unique market," said Sumito Ishii, managing director of General Motors Japan. "For those operating globally, that could present a barrier."

Some Japanese car makers say the focus on mini and hybrid vehicles helps them cultivate and improve future technologies for future growth markets...

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1 ... 0627993218
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby legion » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:41 pm

When was the last time you saw an ad for a GM car on TV in Japan?
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Russell » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:57 pm

I rented American cars when I lived in the US more than 15 years ago.

I was quite unimpressed by their quality. And these were cars of less than 2 years old.

I would think twice before buying an American car in Japan...
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Doctor Stop » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:37 pm

When's the last time you saw a right hand drive GM car?
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Wage Slave » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:43 pm

I thought there was a sound logic to kei cars. Because their weight is restricted they do a tiny fraction of the damage to the roads that heavier cars do. That's why they get the tax breaks. Road repairs and refurbishment cost a huge amount of money so it was win/win.

However, no-one else took the idea up. In the UK we solved the problem by just letting the roads deteriorate. Hey .......it's expensive.

As far as fuel economy goes they are pretty crap though. Cars about 1200cc and diesels do far better.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Wage Slave » Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:49 pm

Doctor Stop wrote:When's the last time you saw a right hand drive GM car?


Vauxhall, Opel and Holden are GM cars and are either right hand drive or available as same. They can manage that all right, as well as adapt their offer to local preferences when they want to.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Doctor Stop » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:31 pm

Wage Slave wrote:Vauxhall, Opel and Holden are GM cars and are either right hand drive or available as same. They can manage that all right, as well as adapt their offer to local preferences when they want to.

I guess that's why you see so many Vauxhall, Opel, and Holden cars on Japanese roads.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Wage Slave » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:38 pm

Doctor Stop wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:Vauxhall, Opel and Holden are GM cars and are either right hand drive or available as same. They can manage that all right, as well as adapt their offer to local preferences when they want to.

I guess that's why you see so many Vauxhall, Opel, and Holden cars on Japanese roads.


Whatever the reason you don't see GM cars on the road in Japan is, it isn't because they can't or haven't made cars with right hand drive adapted for local markets.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Coligny » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:16 pm

Opel was imported by Yanase. Not so great for price and availability...
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Wage Slave » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:02 pm

Coligny wrote:Opel was imported by Yanase. Not so great for price and availability...


My far from expensive experience with GM cars is that they just aren't that good and they cost the same as better. They have a certain tank like appeal but that's about it. They did well in the UK with the Insignia. I had a brand new one from Budget one holiday - It was OK and had a certain presence but really was not a car I would ever buy.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby matsuki » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:45 pm

Wage Slave wrote:
Doctor Stop wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:Vauxhall, Opel and Holden are GM cars and are either right hand drive or available as same. They can manage that all right, as well as adapt their offer to local preferences when they want to.

I guess that's why you see so many Vauxhall, Opel, and Holden cars on Japanese roads.


Whatever the reason you don't see GM cars on the road in Japan is, it isn't because they can't or haven't made cars with right hand drive adapted for local markets.


I drive a GM car...which is really an Opel, rebranded as a subaru in Japan. It's RHD and the only complaint I have is a not so tight turning radius. Toyota, Mazda have near clones of it too so the design is in line with what this cuntry wants.

Would also say Mini, Mercedes, Volkswagen and Fiat seem to sell quite a bit recently.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby yanpa » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:28 pm

Wage Slave wrote:
Doctor Stop wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:Vauxhall, Opel and Holden are GM cars and are either right hand drive or available as same. They can manage that all right, as well as adapt their offer to local preferences when they want to.

I guess that's why you see so many Vauxhall, Opel, and Holden cars on Japanese roads.


Whatever the reason you don't see GM cars on the road in Japan is, it isn't because they can't or haven't made cars with right hand drive adapted for local markets.


To be honest, GM is beholden to its past and knows Vauxhall about opelling up the Japanese market.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby legion » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:53 pm

Doctor Stop wrote:When's the last time you saw a right hand drive GM car?


Some people prefer obviously imported cars, it's a statement.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby yanpa » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:31 pm

legion wrote:
Doctor Stop wrote:When's the last time you saw a right hand drive GM car?


Some people prefer obviously imported cars, it's a statement.


I have to wonder what kind of statement the person was trying to make who imported the left-hand drive Rolls Royce I saw recently...
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby kurogane » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:34 pm

yanpa wrote: To be honest, GM is beholden to its past and knows Vauxhall about opelling up the Japanese market.


Tee hee :lol:
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby legion » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:21 pm

yanpa wrote:I have to wonder what kind of statement the person was trying to make who imported the left-hand drive Rolls Royce I saw recently...


maybe this

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-16/that-2-5-million-classic-jaguar-you-re-eying-may-be-fake.html
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby FG Lurker » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:41 am

I've never been a fan of American cars but I have to say the new Corvette C7 is an impressive machine, especially with the Z51 package.

I'm curious enough that I'll be going for a test drive next spring when they come out here. Should be interesting if nothing else!
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby pallidknight » Fri Dec 20, 2013 6:04 am

It's a shame. I wish I could drive a kei car back home, as they're inexpensive, easy to park, and require less gas.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby wagyl » Fri Dec 20, 2013 9:14 am

yanpa wrote:To be honest, GM is beholden to its past and knows Vauxhall about opelling up the Japanese market.


I see what you did there!

I don't know whether this comes under the definition of 'success,' but GM found a local partner for this now forgotten, bubbly vehicle (and a bit of a Frankenstein, a Wankel engine in an Australian limousine body). From what I understand, it was more desperation on the part of Mazda to provide a luxury offering than efforts on the part of a GM subsidiary to break into the market.

Not only that, GM did own a controlling interest in Isuzu for decades.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby legion » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:35 pm

FG Lurker wrote:I've never been a fan of American cars but I have to say the new Corvette C7 is an impressive machine, especially with the Z51 package.

I'm curious enough that I'll be going for a test drive next spring when they come out here. Should be interesting if nothing else!


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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Mike Oxlong » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:00 pm

A bit of déjà vu, but it's Hiroko T... :inlove:

Microcars 'keis' a big hit in Japan; but tough future in store
Toshie Yamada's "kei," with its pint-size engine and tiny wheels, looks more like a Fisher-Price toy car than a regular truck.

But do not underestimate her Nissan NT 100 Clipper microtruck. At a recent farmers' market, where she sells orchids from her flower farm here in central Japan, she loaded up a mountain of crates, buckets and a folding table before hopping in and zipping away.

"In these parts, keis are definitely the No. 1 car," Yamada said. "Big cars are too much of a ..

As farmers' trucks, family cars, delivery vans and even tiny cafes-on-wheels, keis are everywhere in Japan. They are more popular than ever, thanks to the country's high gasoline prices, a preferential tax system and an uneven economic recovery that have made the wee cars enticing value propositions.

Keis have terrific fuel economies that rival Toyota's Prius hybrid, but they sell for half the price. Last year, a record 40 percent of all new cars sold in Japan were keis.

But industry and government officials are increasingly worried that these microvehicles have become a distraction for the nation's automakers - still bastions of the Japanese economy - and are moving to wean drivers off them.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 297908.cms
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Coligny » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:25 pm

Mike Oxlong wrote:A bit of déjà vu, but it's Hiroko T... :inlove:




Second dib'
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Wage Slave » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:44 pm

Keis have terrific fuel economies that rival Toyota's Prius hybrid


Not my Wagon R that's for sure. Pretty crap considering - Maybe 12km/litre .......The engine is just too small and high revving to get good economy.

Also, they do sell Kei's in India and there are Kei trucks all over Micronesia. No-one's going mad for them true but there is a little niche and to say there isn't is just sloppy reporting. They did have a go at selling Wagon R's with a 1200 engine in the UK but it wasn't popular.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Russell » Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:52 pm

Wage Slave wrote:
Keis have terrific fuel economies that rival Toyota's Prius hybrid


Not my Wagon R that's for sure. Pretty crap considering - Maybe 12km/litre .......The engine is just too small and high revving to get good economy.

This!

A 1 liter engine gives much better mileage.
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Re: Oh Kei - Detroit Can't Do Compact

Postby Coligny » Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:10 am

Russell wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:
Keis have terrific fuel economies that rival Toyota's Prius hybrid


Not my Wagon R that's for sure. Pretty crap considering - Maybe 12km/litre .......The engine is just too small and high revving to get good economy.

This!

A 1 liter engine gives much better mileage.


With a Turbo you even end up with a decent car (check the new 1.2T from Renault...)

These small engines are gutless before 4/5k rpm at which fuel economy reach Russian levels... Since with CVT they rarely go over 1500 rpm and at 2500 rpm you need hearing protection, you have to learn enjoying a life of misery...

(Meanwhile with a diesel I get full torque at 1500 rpm up to the redline 2750rpm (I really need to pay more attention to the manual before my next drive) ... BLITZKRIIIIIIIEEEEEG !!!!!)
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