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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Tokyo Tech

RC & Modeling

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RC & Modeling

Postby Yokohammer » Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:28 am

Coligny wrote:Yeah the club option looked the good way... but here also they are really fracking old... like Greji old...
They also are more helo oriented.
Their concept of safety is a bit different than mine. Last time they were doing flight exhibition at a fair, in public with nearly no safety distance... (gasoline Helos quite big birds 50 / 600 hundred class, enough to at best bleed badly in case of blade strike...)

Most of the guys up here are flying larger 500 ~ 700 class helis. About a 50/50 mix between nitro and electric. Our club airfield is on a riverbank with limited public access, so the safety situation is pretty good. You could lose a bird in the river if you went too far (it's a pretty spacious riverbank), but you're not likely to hit anyone.

But really, the only way to do this with any peace of mind is to join a club. That also gives you a good source of information, spare parts, a market for your own spare parts, etc. And just the opportunity to hang with a bunch of geeks is worth it (although there may be some local variation on that ... so don't quote me).
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Postby Coligny » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:02 am

The spare parts situation is pretty ridiculous here. We have 2 companies, Kawada and Eagle model 20 minutes from home. The closest shop I found to buy their stuff is in Hong Kong...

So except for Tamiya all my parts are sources from China. And anyway for helos I don't fly Japanes brands. Overpriced crap. I prefer Walkera and Esky, their new multi gyro flybarless birds seems kickass...
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:47 pm

There are a couple of decent RC/model shops up this way. Sometimes you need to hit more than one to get everything you need though. Of course if all else fails there's always the ol' Internet.

Here's a pic of the club field to give you a general overview of the situation (taken this morning, in fact).

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Walkera, eh? Which model(s)? Micros?
I have two Blade mCPX micros that are a bunch of fun. Flying them with a JR 11X fitted with the DSM2 module. The nice thing about that is that I can just change out the module to the standard DSMJ one to fly any of the current JR 2.4 GHz receivers.

Other helis are a T-Rex 450 Sport (V2), and a JR Super Voyager E.

The T-Rex stuff (made in Taiwan, as I'm sure you know) is generally really good for the price, but little annoyances like easily stripped screws and the occasional moulded part that won't fit properly without a little "post purchase adjustment" make the Japanese brands look downright cheap in some ways. Also JR service is super prompt and polite. Try getting decent service from the Align/T-Rex importer. Dunno about Walkera, but I've heard they used to have QC issues.
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Postby Coligny » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:19 pm

Walkera Lama 2... the one most often chewed on by the cats... 4G3 (micro 3D) and 4#3B (micro... all over the place).

And a pretty lame Esky Lama IV (not 2.4ghz) who was a hangar queen from day one. I think I've spend more time polishing and balancing the blades than flying it. But can fly a bit outdoor on the roof when there is no wind. But it's such a common airframe that even deal extreme have aluminum spare parts for pennies...

Few blade strikes with the Lama make me think I should not try anything bigger... but a little more weight/stability would be nice...

So in fact these days i'm more often using the controllers for sims, mostly Phoenix RC. Which translate to incredible improvment when I really fly.
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:49 pm

The 43G looks like fun. And yeah, stay with the micros unless you have somewhere to fly outdoors. I sure would. As tiny as it is, even the mCPX is an accident waiting to happen indoors. It's a 3-axis gyro flybarless collective pitch thing, and the head speed is high enough to shatter windows. When they say you can fly it indoors, they mean, like, in a gymnasium ... but of course people still fly them in their living rooms ... destroying their TVs and putting sizable holes in the walls ...

The nice thing about the high head speed of the mCPX is that you can fly it outdoors, and it's surprisingly stable even in pretty strong wind.

I use Phoenix too. The JR transmitter plugs right in. Don't think I'd be able to handle CP helis at all if it wasn't for that sim.

Edit: While I'm at it, one of the guys was flying this today. Definitely more "presence" than a micro.

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Postby BigInJapan » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:22 pm

Don't know if you guys live around rice fields, but this is what they use for spraying down here in Fukuoka. I took these pics last July of the JA guys spraying the rice field behind my house.
My bro-in-law works for JA, and he said these commercial Yanmar RC copters are worth around 10 million yen. So not something the average hobbyist would be playing with. Apparently they suck at any kind of altitude, and are specialized for just staying low and going back and forth.

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You can see it's loaded up with fairly big tanks containing either pesticide or fertilizer.
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:38 pm

BigInJapan wrote:Don't know if you guys live around rice fields, but this is what they use for spraying down here in Fukuoka. I took these pics last July of the JA guys spraying the rice field behind my house.
My bro-in-law works for JA, and he said these commercial Yanmar RC copters are worth around 10 million yen. So not something the average hobbyist would be playing with. Apparently they suck at any kind of altitude, and are specialized for just staying low and going back and forth.

They use those things around here too, but only when there's a problem that requires some sort of special treatment. Last time was in 2010, I think, because the summer was super hot and the rice crops were getting some kind of unusual disease, so they were dusting to prevent that.

Those helicopters are incredibly stable and easy to fly compared to the hobby types that are designed to fly aerobatics. In fact I think they're even equipped with GPS to keep them where they're put, and all of that contributes to the huge price tag.

The average 500 ~ 600 class "sport" helicopter might cost between around JPY 80,000 to 150,000 for the basics, including gyro(s), servos, and receiver. Of course then there's the transmitter, batteries (the big Li-Pos are pretty expensive), battery charging equipment (that's where things like portable generators come in), etc, etc. It all adds up.

I still think it's probably cheaper than something like golf in the long run. But of course you can go nuts with any hobby. Even fishing can get super expensive if you start insisting on the best carbon fiber rods and titanium reels and stuff.
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Postby Coligny » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:39 pm

And last year again they managed to kill an operator... It's cute to see him wearing a hardhat while anything less than a european medieval armor won't protect anything...

Big RC choppers are nothing new... usually, it's the multiblade rotor head and the turbine that suck your wallet dry...

[yt]STdAr1JNXIU[/yt]
This one is just missing few kapitalist pigs to slaughter...

But nothing beat the beauty of th3 lady...
[yt]SJ5i0Cxpml8[/yt]
(even if this one seems awfully unbalanced)
(nearly every airframe have an Airwolf bodykit availabul)
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Postby Coligny » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:47 pm

Yokohammer wrote:I still think it's probably cheaper than something like golf in the long run. But of course you can go nuts with any hobby. Even fishing can get super expensive if you start insisting on the best carbon fiber rods and titanium reels and stuff.

Say the guy who fly with a 700USD radio...

http://goo.gl/7MHhI

But you can also go th3 cheap way with a 28 USD one...

http://goo.gl/ACXEN

That said... compared to the prices when I was flying a plane with a 2CH futaba attack R 20 years ago... (rudder+throttle... yeah... what a drag) ... It's rock bottom dirt cheap...

BTW are you mode 1 (aka, the people that I can't understand) or Mode 2 ?
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Apr 29, 2012 7:56 pm

Coligny wrote:Say the guy who fly with a 700USD radio...

http://goo.gl/7MHhI

That's the one. Looks kinda stupid, but it's a really nice radio. I really didn't have much choice though, because I absolutely needed to be able to use the DSM2 module in addition to the normal stuff (I figured it'd end up being more expensive having to use different transmitters for the various helis I wanted to fly, so a modular system just made sense).

Coligny wrote:BTW are you mode 1 (aka, the people that I can't understand) or Mode 2 ?

Yeah, sorry, mode 1.
I know it makes more sense to have elevator and aileron (all the cyclic stuff) on one stick and rudder/collective on the other, but when in Rome ...

But of course once you get used to it it really doesn't matter.
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Postby Coligny » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:05 pm

Yokohammer wrote:Yeah, sorry, mode 1.
I know it makes more sense to have elevator and aileron (all the cyclic stuff) on one stick and rudder/collective on the other, but when in Rome ...

But of course once you get used to it it really doesn't matter.


Doooood...

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=53275

But now it might be dangerous to change your habbit...
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Postby Yokohammer » Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:14 pm

Coligny wrote:Doooood...

http://www.modelflying.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=53275

But now it might be dangerous to change your habbit...

Ah ... when I said "when in Rome" I didn't mean I was flying mode 1 because that's the way transmitters are supplied in Japan, I meant that since everyone else here flies mode 1 it's a good idea to join the herd. It means I can hand my transmitter to anyone else or vice versa. Some of these guys who've been flying for 20+ years are really, really good at it, and it's nice to have their help when setting up a new heli, for example.

That ... and you're right: I'd probably kill myself or someone else if I tried to change now ...
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Postby BigInJapan » Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:50 pm

Coligny wrote:And last year again they managed to kill an operator... It's cute to see him wearing a hardhat while anything less than a european medieval armor won't protect anything...
Yep, and his red jumpsuit does look a bit ineffectual at best.
There were 3 other lackeys standing by watching, not wearing helmets at all. No clue what the copter's blades are made of, but I'm sure they would mess you up pretty bad no matter what you were wearing.
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Postby Coligny » Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:27 am

Fiberglass, carbon fiber or wood... It's not the material, it's the speed of the impact matched with the profile of the blade that gets you...
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Postby Big Booger » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:33 am

http://tinyurl.com/7g3wnlx

How about this one?
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Postby Coligny » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:06 am

No way this crap could have been worth 5 man...

even for 1 man it's not tempting...

It's a 3.5 channels... no lateral flight possible...
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Postby Yokohammer » Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:37 am

Big Booger wrote:http://tinyurl.com/7g3wnlx

How about this one?

That's what guys who are really into the hobby disparagingly call a "mall helicopter," because it's the kind they sell at toy stores and malls.

Toy helicopters like this usually have coaxial main rotors, like that one, and a tail rotor that points up rather than sideways, used make the helicopter fly forwards and backwards. They're easy to fly, but they do not fly on the same principles as "real" helicopters and aren't anywhere hear as maneuverable. Another problem with these things is that once they break they're finished. Hobby helis are fixable and a good range of spare parts and upgrade parts are available.

But having said that, toy helicopters like this do serve as the "gateway drug" that gets plenty of people into the hobby for real, so they do have a purpose. :mrgreen:

A proper hobby grade RC helicopter is really f*cking difficult to fly. Even maintaining a stable hover is hard. The chairman of our club is an actual helicopter pilot, and according to him the RC helis are much harder to fly than a full-size helicopter (which is probably a good thing).* With the toys you can just sort of let go of the sticks and they pretty much hover by themselves, but you have to actively fly a hobby heli every second it's in the air. And that's part of what makes it interesting and addictive. There's the challenge of flying gracefully, the extreme difficulty of flying aerobatics, and the geeky allure of building and tweaking your birds.

* I couldn't resist asking him: "So, if you fly full-size helicopters, why do you bother with models?" His answer: "I like helicopters!" Couldn't argue with that.
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Postby Big Booger » Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:22 pm

http://tinyurl.com/bwo7ohj

So I take it then that this one here would be more suitable option. But as a beginner, would not a mall copter be a better option, considering the potential nightmarish landings I am assuming happen! Well, apart from the fact that there are no parts to fix it.
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Postby Coligny » Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:13 pm

For beginner... I'd say first try a simulator with a joypad (FMS is free for example).

http://www.myrcguides.com/FMS.html

And either a Blade mCPX if you find shops...
Or a Walkera Lama 2 (or what replace it nowadays) from Hong Kong.

Also, if you don't know anything on choppers theory, try to read a bit (http://dream-models.com/eco/index.html) And catch a rerun of Airwolf season 1 - 3 as 90% of the scene included real helo dynamics. (forget the BS aboot turbos though...)

One... quite horrific... thing you might start doing if you get hooked is manage a flight book for each of your models listing the flight behaviour and date of repairs/improvment and replacement. and also start a stock of spare parts with their proper listing, some because you break them all the time, some because they have limited lifespan (engine, batteries, blades... blades... more blades...)

(1 word of advice DO NOT USE BANANA HOBBY...)
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Postby Yokohammer » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:00 pm

Big Booger wrote:http://tinyurl.com/bwo7ohj

So I take it then that this one here would be more suitable option. But as a beginner, would not a mall copter be a better option, considering the potential nightmarish landings I am assuming happen! Well, apart from the fact that there are no parts to fix it.

Yep, that's a proper helicopter. It is not the kind of thing you're easily going to learn how to fly on your own though. Some care is required in construction and setup too.

Actually, a toy heli is fine just to fart around with. You can fly the little ones indoors (carefully), and something like that might give you an idea of whether you want to go further or not. A lot of people start that way.

But if you do get hooked, be warned that you'll probably be bored with your toy heli in about a week and want something a bit more challenging. That's OK too ... you haven't wasted a huge initial investment.

Coligny's advice to get a simulator is right on the money. But that's probably the next step after you get bored with your mall chopper. Seriously useful simulators include Phoenix and Real Flight. Phoenix is the less expensive option, and it's really very good. Windows only though (I'm running Windows 7 on a MacBook Pro via Bootcamp just so I can run Phoenix, and it works fine).
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Postby Big Booger » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:34 pm

where can you get that USB remote for the FMS program in Japan? I think I will try that out first, get used to it, and then after I become used to that, maybe get a real model to fly.
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Postby Coligny » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:25 pm

Any usb joypad with dual analogic (like Logitec rumblepad 2) suffice. I's a little boring to have the throttle stick to go back to middle position with spring instead of allowing to rest all the way down. But it's really half of nothing.

If not: this crappy looking one (but small so not bad for desk use)

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/x-power-8-ch-usb-rc-flight-simulator-kit-left-throttle-transmitter-65739

Or this -real size- one:

http://www.dealextreme.com/p/dynam-rc-tech-6-channel-usb-r-c-airplane-helicopter-flight-simulator-with-fms-software-mode-2-15580

Both are MODE 2 which make much more sense...

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Postby Coligny » Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:45 pm

http://www.blairkelly.ca/2012/04/20/arduino-wifly-mini/


Arduino RC control for wifi network...

Sort of ideal for having a zone minder CCTV drone in the house...

BEWARE, the video feed is independant from the wifi controls.
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Postby Grumblebum » Wed May 02, 2012 9:40 am

I bought a Blade mCX2 from http://www.amainhobbies.com a little while back after doing some reading on what's good for beginners.

Got interested in the Blade ones after a trip to the UK where I guy I know demoed a couple of bigger Blade helis and the mSR X he had.

The mCX2 is pretty straightforward to fly, I was amazed at how stable and responsive it is, having only ever played with those cheap IR ones before now. Just need to find more time on calm days when I can fly it outside.
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Postby Yokohammer » Wed May 02, 2012 10:48 am

Grumblebum wrote:I bought a Blade mCX2 from http://www.amainhobbies.com a little while back after doing some reading on what's good for beginners.

Got interested in the Blade ones after a trip to the UK where I guy I know demoed a couple of bigger Blade helis and the mSR X he had.

The mCX2 is pretty straightforward to fly, I was amazed at how stable and responsive it is, having only ever played with those cheap IR ones before now. Just need to find more time on calm days when I can fly it outside.

That's probably one of the best choices for a coaxial heli. It uses a proper swashplate assembly for cyclic control rather than a stupid vertical tail propeller for forward/backward flight.

It'll probably be pretty sensitive to even slight breezes, but it should be fun.

Once you get tired of that ... the endlessly challenging (and occasionally terrifying) world of collective-pitch helis awaits ... :mrgreen:
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