Dead Mac

[Caustic Saint]

The hard drive in my iBook has essentially shit the bed. (To use the proper technical term.) I'm taking it in for service tonight and have no idea when I'll get it back.

This really pisses me off.

My old iBook (G3 model) was rock solid for two years. I've had the G4 for 6 months and already the drive dies and the letters are wearing off some of the keys.

Not cool.

Not enough to make me give up on Macs, but enough to put me in a foul mood. I know bad units come along every now and then, but every other Mac I've had has worked like a champ. For what's supposed to be an improved model of what I used to have, I'm very underwhelmed.

So if you see me not posting for the next 3-4-7-10-? days, you know why.

[Charles]

Are you sure it isn't a software problem? Boot from the OS X Install CD, and rather than installing, at the first screen where you're supposed to proceed with the install, go up to the top menu and go to Disk Utilities. Use DU to repair the drive and if successful, repair permissions.

[cstaylor]

:cry:

The hard drive in my iBook has essentially shit the bed. (To use the proper technical term.) I'm taking it in for service tonight and have no idea when I'll get it back.

This really pisses me off.

My old iBook (G3 model) was rock solid for two years. I've had the G4 for 6 months and already the drive dies and the letters are wearing off some of the keys.

Not cool.

Not enough to make me give up on Macs, but enough to put me in a foul mood. I know bad units come along every now and then, but every other Mac I've had has worked like a champ. For what's supposed to be an improved model of what I used to have, I'm very underwhelmed.

So if you see me not posting for the next 3-4-7-10-? days, you know why.

That's why you buy powerbooks.

[mr. sparkle]

Are you sure it isn't a software problem? Boot from the OS X Install CD, and rather than installing, at the first screen where you're supposed to proceed with the install, go up to the top menu and go to Disk Utilities. Use DU to repair the drive and if successful, repair permissions.

What he said. Alsoft Disk Warrior might also rescue the drive. Hopefully, it's still getting power.

[Caustic Saint]

Are you sure it isn't a software problem? Boot from the OS X Install CD, and rather than installing, at the first screen where you're supposed to proceed with the install, go up to the top menu and go to Disk Utilities. Use DU to repair the drive and if successful, repair permissions.

What he said. Alsoft Disk Warrior might also rescue the drive. Hopefully, it's still getting power.

Been there, done that, but I don't have access to Disk Warrior.

First thing I did was boot off the install CD and try DU. That was a no go. The disk cannot be verified or repaired, and it's in such sad shape that the permissions options are grayed out.

I'm able to use it by booting off a Firewire disk, and once I do that, the internal HD is acessible. I cannot reinstall the OS to the internal drive or boot from it.

It'll be in the hands of the Apple techs around 7:30-8:00 tonight. Who knows when it'll be back in mine.

[cliffy]

Isn't it just worn out? You do give it a walloping according to your Blog.....

[Charles]

If you can read and write to it, but just can't boot from it, as you describe, it sounds more like a software problem to me. Hard to tell why the repair option is greyed out, although you should be aware that it will always be greyed out for the drive you're booting from (thus the advice to repair when booted from the CD). I suspect you could reformat and reinstall. You might want to get a copy of Carbon Copy Cloner and do a quick backup of your main drive to the FireWire drive. Clone your main drive to a disk image on the FW drive, reformat the PB, then restore the cloned image. That's what I'd do if I was in your position. CCC is wonderful, it can save and restore bootable cloned disk volumes.
Good luck anyway.

[Charles]

Oh.. I forgot.. Carbon Copy Cloner is free.

http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html

[cstaylor]

Are you running Panther? Panther's disk tool already has the disk image stuff built in.

[Caustic Saint]

Isn't it just worn out? You do give it a walloping according to your Blog.....

It was acting up last month when I wrote that entry (June 28th), and clearly more than a reformat and reinstall was needed. That was probably just a band-aid on a shotgun wound.

I do a fair bit of downloading, but not enough that the drive should crap out in six months. Even if it was grinding away non-stop for the whole six months, that's less than 4,400 hours - well below the listed MTBF for hard drives.

If anybody's curious, here's what I get when I try to run Disk Repair in Drive Utilities:

[code]Incorrect block count for BootX
&#40]

[cstaylor]

Yeah, sounds like you need a new disk.

You haven't been running your iBook with the lid closed, have you?

[Caustic Saint]

If you can read and write to it, but just can't boot from it, as you describe, it sounds more like a software problem to me. Hard to tell why the repair option is greyed out, although you should be aware that it will always be greyed out for the drive you're booting from (thus the advice to repair when booted from the CD). I suspect you could reformat and reinstall. You might want to get a copy of Carbon Copy Cloner and do a quick backup of your main drive to the FireWire drive. Clone your main drive to a disk image on the FW drive, reformat the PB, then restore the cloned image. That's what I'd do if I was in your position.

Whether I boot from the CD or a firewire drive, I can't repair the internal drive. And after having done a reformat and reinstall just a month ago, I'm pretty sure it's something unpleasant.

I've backed up everything and have a functioning system on my pocket drive, with essential stuff doubly backed up on my big firewire disk. It's going into the shop tonight so if they want to change out the drive (or anything else) I won't lose any data at all. It's under warranty, so all this'll cost me is a long train ride there and back after work today - and a few days of convenient computing.

[Taro Toporific]

[
[code]Incorrect block count for BootX
&#40]

Did you try TechTools Lite?
http://www.micromat.com/tt_lite/tt_lite.html

Generally, that bad block count and B-Tree problem is recoverable. I've use TechTools Pro to fix that same problem in the past (before OS 10.1).

[cstaylor]

Hey, thanks for that link Taro. I just ordered Tech Tools 4, just to be safe in the future.

[Caustic Saint]

Did you try TechTools Lite?
http://www.micromat.com/tt_lite/tt_lite.html

Generally, that bad block count and B-Tree problem is recoverable. I've use TechTools Pro to fix that same problem in the past (before OS 10.1).

TTL requires a Classic Environment and I went pretty bare bones with the Panther install on the pocket drive. No biggie. The techs will figure it out.

I hope....

[Charles]

Yeah, that invalid node structure is usually repairable. Sometimes Disk Util won't do the repair but Norton Disk Doctor will fix the problem. I've generally had better luck fixing corrupted drives with Norton Disk Doctor than Tech Tool Pro, although Norton's other utils are fairly useless, I only use Disk Doctor.

Anyway, I guess you can let the techs sort it out, if it's under warranty and you're all backed up, you've got nothing to lose and a new(er) drive to gain.

[mr. sparkle]

I agree with all that Charles says. Except Norton doesn't work well with Jag.

DISK WARRIOR
You'll be back in bizness with that program.
Well worth the cost to bring that drive back.

Trust me, man. GET IT!

[Charles]

Except Norton doesn't work well with Jag.

There were some problems with a previous version not working with Jag. It was solved with a version update of Norton. This always happens, Norton is fairly version-sensitive.

[mr. sparkle]

You know, I used to be a Norton kind of guy. And normally, I'd agree with you. But in the Final Cut community, we have seen Norton's completely mess up our dear little editing program. I have grown not to trust it as I used to.

All the hard core Mac guys have switched to Disk Warrior. Even my tech guru has switched. DW is non-intrusive and gets the job done. I highly recommend that Caustic goes the Disk Warrior route to rebuild his B-Tree. Afterward, don't forget to Repair Disk Permissions with Disk Utility. Repairing permissions should be done on a weekly basis, IMO.

BTW, Carbon Copy Cloner ROCKS. A great way to back up your system.

[electrocat]

harddrives fail period. I bought a new western digital and it failed in 1 month. Its just the nature of the beast. Why does this happen? no idea.. just think of it this way... It should be awhile before you have another harddrive failure. It happens to every one eventually.

[Caustic Saint]

My iBook got dropped off at the "Apple Experience Center" (we don't rate an actual Apple Store here) last night. They're supposed to call me today after the techs check it out and let me know what's going on and how long I'll be without it. Last night's estimate after I explained the problem was anywhere from 3-7 days.

I think I'm already having withdrawl symptoms.

Using the public computer at work sucks. I want my own computer and all that that entails. I'll definitely check out Disk Warrior once my machine's back in my hands.

[mr. sparkle]

Too bad you gave it up. You'd be computing right now on your iBook if you did not give it up and ran Disk Warrior. Well, if you have DW around the next time this happens, you'll know that you can repair it yourself.

[Charles]

It's pointless to argue over favorite utilities, but I will just reassert that there's nothing wrong with Norton, it does not mess up FCP. I use FCP and NDD, I support several people running FCP, and we all run NDD and have never had any problems. There was a problem with older versions of NDD that didn't recognize the new Journaled filesystem, but that was fixed a long time ago, the current version works fine and will not damage anything on your filesystem.

In addition, it is not necessary to repair permissions once a week. It is only neccessary to repair perms after doing a software install, particularly OS updates. If you don't install any new software, there's no way for permissions to get messed up (unless you deliberately mess them up with Terminal commands). It IS necessary to boot from an Install CD or some other drive to repair permissions, they cannot be repaired properly on the drive you booted from.

I will assert that I am no guru, I am the anti-guru. Timothy Leary used to call me his computer guru, he's the only person I allowed to call me by that title. People don't need "computer gurus," they need solutions to their problems. I spend most of my time debunking the ridiculous advice of "experts" and "gurus." I have long promoted a version of Murphy's Law, I call it "The Expert Law." It states, "as soon as you hire a computer expert, suddenly you discover problems only an expert can solve." That's how the PC industry works, not Macs.

[Caustic Saint]

Too bad you gave it up. You'd be computing right now on your iBook if you did not give it up and ran Disk Warrior. Well, if you have DW around the next time this happens, you'll know that you can repair it yourself.

Perhaps, but I think it was in need of a professional look. It's been having hiccups for over a month, and since a trip to the techs is free, I'd just as soon have them check it out and make sure nothing else is going wonky with it.

Hey, I could luck out and they'll tell me all kinds of stuff are screwed up. Then I'd get bumped up to a 1GHz iBook.

[Caustic Saint]

No utility software in the world would've done the trick. The techs say the drive is dead, dead, dead.

Good news: It's only the drive that's dead.

Bad news: Apple Korea sucks copious amounts of ass.

For something as simple as a hard drive swap, it's going to take them over a week.

WTF?!?

A day or two, sure - but a 8-10 days?!? That's a load of crap. Now it looks like this Tuesday to Thursday befoe I'll get it back. The reason? They only get parts from one place in Seoul, and things are "backlogged" there. There've gotta be at least 1,000 places to buy hard drives in the city, and they pick the worst one? Dumb. Dumb. Dumb.

So, what have I learned? 1. Never have your Mac break in Korea. 2. If it does break, don't take it in for service before a long weekend.

[mr. sparkle]

It's pointless to argue over favorite utilities, but I will just reassert that there's nothing wrong with Norton, it does not mess up FCP. I use FCP and NDD, I support several people running FCP, and we all run NDD and have never had any problems.

Glad you've had no problems, however, you might wanna jump aboard the Disk Warrior bandwagon. Norton is dead on the Mac as far as system utilities go.

Symantec Corp. has confirmed it has stopped development of Norton Utilities for Macintosh and Norton SystemWorks for Macintosh and will now concentrate its efforts solely on Internet security products for the Mac.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/04/14.2.shtml

Caustic, glad you'll be getting your rig back soon. Hang in there!

[kotatsuneko]

i feel for you,

this year alone i have had 3 (!) western digital hds fail on me, 200 gig, 250 gig, 80 gig 2 bought in the last 7 months.. ridiculous, then they send the same drives back with a different serial no on stating "reclassified" bloody cheek..

i got around 80% of the data back thanks to an outfit called Halo in the uk.. and ended up buying a terra and a half of external hd space from Lacie just in case for the future..

boring and slow it is, but imho a dvd-r backup of all newly created / acquired data is the best thing to do..

after the failures, i realised just how wise the words of Pongi Tono were when he posted something along the lines of "never, ever erase your original video footage!"

[vvx]

My 80GB wd died just recently too. Probably the heat here that did it (not like there though, low humidity here.)

[mr. sparkle]

i feel for you,

this year alone i have had 3 (!) western digital hds fail on me, 200 gig, 250 gig, 80 gig 2 bought in the last 7 months.. ridiculous

Never trusted WD's. I recommend Hitachis nowadays.

[GridReaper]

Well, my iBook G4 (only 2 months old) had to be sent in for hard drive problems. The various disk utilities were finding bad blocks EVERYWHERE.

Of course, I dropped (from ~waist height) the very same iBook twice in two days while it was actively BitTorrenting various tv shows, so I really can't blame Apple on this one.

Fortunately, it only took a week to repair.

A girl in my office was having hard drive issues with her iBook G4, too. I can't speak if she was doing gravity tests also, but hers was replaced within a week, as well.