Advanced classes at Japanese language schools

[SophisticatedCatchy]

I'm looking for visa-granting Japanese language schools that can accommodate higher-level students. I'm already at or am close to JLPT Level 1 proficiency; unfortunately, most of the language schools I've researched have no classes beyond that level.

Geos' Kudan Institute and Yamasa appear to meet my needs. A search for "advanced classes" on here brought up KCP as another possibility. Does anyone know of any others?

[Mini_B]

Here's an awesome school:

http://www.naganuma-school.or.jp/

They don't grant VISA's though as far as I know.

[Steve Bildermann]

I graduated from Naganuma wayyyy back. In those days the full time students (25hours aw week) could get visa sponsorship.

Things migt have changed.

[Charles]

What's your goal? Do you want to become more proficient in daily conversation and reading? Or do you want to be a translator? Or do you have some specialized field you want to understand better?

The traditional academic track is once you're near L1, you study Classical Japanese. My friends who studied Classical all said it improved their regular Japanese a lot, but I'm skeptical. Some US schools have "technical Japanese" programs for post-L1 students, it's targeted at translators and engineering students (MIT used to run a tech Japanese program).

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

What's your goal? Do you want to become more proficient in daily conversation and reading? Or do you want to be a translator? Or do you have some specialized field you want to understand better?

The traditional academic track is once you're near L1, you study Classical Japanese. My friends who studied Classical all said it improved their regular Japanese a lot, but I'm skeptical. Some US schools have "technical Japanese" programs for post-L1 students, it's targeted at translators and engineering students (MIT used to run a tech Japanese program).

Is that classical Japanese something like being traineg in classical art? Or just more Classical Charles Bullshit.

[omae mona]

Is that classical Japanese something like being traineg in classical art? Or just more Classical Charles Bullshit.

Neo, stop acting like a junior high school student, and find something better to do than stalking Charles. It's boring, and I'm sure I'm not alone in being irritated when you attempt to start a flame war in every thread he participates in. On average, a single one of Charles' posts contains more useful and accurate information than you've posted on FG in total. A lot of us prefer his no-bullshit style to your oh-so-charming personality. If you don't like it, just keep your mouth shut, please.

This is a useful thread - don't ruin it for us.

[American Oyaji]

Omae,
I'm also curious as to what he means by "classical", but not in the sense that Neo is.

Is he referring to formal Tokyo style Japanese, or is he referring to an older style of Japanese used in the late 19th and early 20th century (or even earlier?)

[vir-jin]

[SophisticatedCatchy]

Thank you, everyone, for the suggestions.

Charles: my goal is to work in Japan for at least a few years (most likely in IT or computer-related translation, given my work experience). To that end, I want to improve my speaking and writing abilities, ideally to the point that I could work in a general office setting without too much trouble. While I have managed to pick up a good deal of computer-related vocabulary through volunteer translation work and participation in mailing lists, my general speaking and writing abilities lag far behind because I've spent very little time (about five months) in Japan.

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

Neo, stop acting like a junior high school student,

I am a junior high school student. At least thats what I tell them when I try to nampa them.

and find something better to do than stalking Charles.

Stalking... Next you will say I am raping him. I think you have spent too long over at JT

It's boring,

So is your avatar.

and I'm sure I'm not alone in being irritated when

Funnily enough you probably are alone.

you attempt to start a flame war in every thread he participates in

Every you are a bit of a Joker omea what ever your name is. I have posted in 7 count that 7 of the same threads as him. since he has posted in about 200 threads. 7 yes 7, is only 3.5% of the same thread. can you please tell me what maths book you and charlie boy share where 3.5% = EVERY?

On average, a single one of Charles' posts contains more useful and accurate information than you've posted on FG in total.

So you point? This is the only one of your posts I have ever replied to. Frankly you have no entertainment value what so ever.

A lot of us prefer his no-bullshit style to your oh-so-charming personality.

A lot lol...

If you don't like it, just keep your mouth shut, please.

I dont like you are you going to keep your mouth shut also?

This is a useful thread - don't ruin it for us.

Run a long and tell your mammy that the bad boy dont like you.


Peace
OUT

[Charles]

Omae,
I'm also curious as to what he means by "classical", but not in the sense that Neo is.

Is he referring to formal Tokyo style Japanese, or is he referring to an older style of Japanese used in the late 19th and early 20th century (or even earlier?)

This is a little out of my depths, since I took a Classical Japanese course and dropped out halfway, once it became obvious that the instructor didn't know what he was doing and only showed up to teach about half the classes.

Japanese went through a "reform" just after WWII, kanji was simplified and reduced down to the jouyou kanji set, many archaic forms were generally dropped. This makes it difficult for even modern Japanese native speakers to read late 19th and early 20th century writing. I'm not talking about the difficulty of reading things like older cursive scripts, even plainly typeset texts in modern easy-to-read scripts are difficult because of the use of thousands of odd kanji. Grammar changed and was simplified, a good example is the title of Natsume Soseki's classic book, "wagahai wa neko de aru." WTF is "wagahai?" Just plain old "watashi" in modern usage.

But that's not what I'm talking about. Even Meiji/Taisho era Japanese is fairly easy to comprehend for native speakers, compared to Classical Japanese.

When I say Classical, think Heian era, think Genji Monogatari. Classical Japanese is mindbendingly difficult, all the verb constructions are radically different, grammar structures are more complex, etc. But Modern Japanese evolved from it, so they say that studying Classical will help you understand some of the archaic forms that still exist in the modern language. I'm skeptical. I think one of the main reasons why Classical is considered the pinnacle of Japanese instruction is that the old professors who teach it are old Occupation-era translators, they got academic tenure by publishing translations of Classical works, so it's their specialty. Unfortunately, by learning Classical, you spend a lot of your time learning linguistics terminology, so you learn to talk ABOUT Japanese, not learning to talk IN Japanese. Even more unfortunately, there is only 1 good textbook on Classical Japanese, it is so rarely taught. My professor just cobbled together some xeroxed pages from Classical Japanese dictionaries and thought that would suffice for a textbook. It did not.
Then there are even more archaic forms of Japanese, but I'm not really familiar with the subject. Scholars tended to write in Chinese even into the Classical era, it was sort of like how European scholars used to write in Latin instead of their normal "vulgar" language. I'm not sure how you'd even approach these texts unless you studied Chinese first.

Anyway, there are few resources for Classical Japanese on the net. Try the UVA eText Library for samples of Classical texts, and prepare to be baffled. I'd suggest starting with "tsuretsuregusa," it's considered one of the easier Classical texts.

As for SophisticatedCatchy's original question, now that we've got a little more info, I think you're on the right track. What you need is time in Japan. You could probably pick up whatever skills you need just on the job. Japanese language programs in the US assume they're just preparing you for your REAL learning experience, once you get to Japan. Even Japanese native speakers are assumed to be language idiots by most companies that hire them. I have a new employee's manual from Sony targeted at nihonjin college graduates, about half of it is language instruction on how to use keigo, how to talk on the phone, etc, stuff you've already studied in school. You may actually be better prepared than some native speakers to take on a corporate job. Don't sell yourself short.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Hey Neo,

I'm going to have to agree with Omae Mona in this case. Charles didn't really say anything in this thread that should have set you off. Yeah, he is an opinionated, direct, rude, asshole sometimes but that's why I like a lot of his posts (Probably because I'm an opinionated, direct, rude, asshole).

There have been some cases where Charles has brought it on himself by acting like a know-it-all dick but this isn't one of them. You were just trying to start something.

[jingai]

Yamasa is fine but if you're really basically fluent, don't waste your time with regular classes and just get private lessons. Maybe volunteer or find a part-time job somewhere so you can get some real world Japanese practice. Or skip all of that and enroll in grad. school in Japan or do the JET program as a CIR. There are lots of choices!
Roger

[Andocrates]

Hey Neo,

Yeah, he is an opinionated, direct, rude, asshole sometimes but that's why I like a lot of his posts (Probably because I'm an opinionated, direct, rude, asshole).

There have been some cases where Charles has brought it on himself by acting like a know-it-all dick but this isn't one of them. You were just trying to start something.

That's what we call a back-handed compliment in english.

[American Oyaji]

Chuck,

That was impressive. Thanks for the info.

[SophisticatedCatchy]

I took a vacation to Japan at the beginning of this month, and decided to take a look at the Kudan Institute and Yamasa, since they offered advanced courses and the all-important visa to let me stay in Japan and eventually find a job, even if I only studied there for six months. (I lack the temperament to teach English, unfortunately, and fear it would be obvious to eikaiwa companies that I would look for other work upon arrival.)

Well, the Kudan Institute couldn't guarantee that their highest-level courses would be available to students who wished to enter them directly; their availability depended on the plans and abilities of students in the courses below.

As for Yamasa, it seemed like a really good school, and I was told that even people who passed JLPT Level 1 would find plenty of challenging material. I sat in one of the classes, but didn't feel as if I would profit much from it, unfortunately. The teacher seemed fine; however, the reading material for the class was too simple, and the students were either impossible to understand because of their thick accents or overaggressive about participation to the point that I wanted to smack them. (Granted, new students would enter by the time I did, but their type would likely show up again; I had forgotten about that aspect of Japanese language classes.)

So, Jingai, you're right: private lessons do seem like a much better choice at this point in terms of improving my Japanese. Unfortunately, it doesn't solve the visa problem, and it's too late to apply for a CIR position or for graduate school. I am applying from abroad for a job in Japan, though, on the advice of a friend currently at that company; we'll see how it goes.

--SC

P.S. Speaking of the JLPT, it turns out that I indeed passed Level 1. It's a small accomplishment, but I'm proud of myself for having done it through self-study, and while living outside of Japan.