Japanese Profiency Test Pissing Contest

[maraboutslim]

Isn't the vocab 100 points, the listening 100 points and the grammar and reading 200 points? From your scores, I think you are more than a few points each section away from passing. You need 60% to pass, right? So look at your percentages: you got 58 on the first section so you nees just two points there. But you need 21 points to get your listening skills up to passing level. Then you need 24 more points (our of 200) to get the final section up to 60%.

My advice? Concentrate on the listening section. Where are you living? If it's in Japan, it would be much easier, and a lot more fun, for you to simply hang out with Japanese people a lot more (or at least watch tv) and then you can ace the listening comprehension section. I took level 3 my second year in Japan and got 100% correct on that section. Then you'd only have to get like 46% right on the other sections to pass!

[sillygirl]

Bugger...taking mine in London this year....going to be interesting to see what kind of Fucked Gaijins take this test in the UK.




(Mulboyne - are you still in London on 4th?)

[Cubed]

See you there

[drpepper]

Well, my Japanese Japanese teacher has been teaching for over 30 years and she said that this question was ambiguous and badly devised. Blah blah blah, wah wah wah

So?? That does not have anything to do with what I said. I said that in general use the verb "to give" is written in hiragana. Did your teacher say it isn't? Also does your teacher teach conversation or at a real school to real students? I have met japanese conversation teachers whose credentials were about as good as the average eikaiwa teacher.

[Cubed]

I said that in general use the verb "to give" is written in hiragana. Did your teacher say it isn't?

Oh dear - you didn't quite understand what the Romans said about your argument, did you?

Here you're using the False Dilemma.

The logical fallacy of false dilemma, which is also known as fallacy of the excluded middle, false dichotomy, either/or dilemma or bifurcation, involves a situation in which two alternative points of view are held to be the only options, when in reality there exist one or more alternate options which have not been considered.

"Ageru is not written in kanji here. That means that either it doesn't mean 'fry', or your teacher is wrong."

Oh dear. But look on the bright side, you have something in common with George Bush, he uses the same kind of argument:

"Are you with us, or with the forces of evil?"

My teacher is at Sheffield University (UK) in the School of East Asian Studies.

She wrote the Kenkyusha New Collegiate Third Edition.

So, the remaining questions to you, my last objector, drpepper:

Which dictionary did your teacher write?
Do you know the Japanese for "Logical Fallacy"?
Would your brother in law understand it if you did?
Do you think now would be a good time to learn it?

[Charles]

My teacher is at Sheffield University (UK) in the School of East Asian Studies.

She wrote the Kenkyusha New Collegiate Third Edition.

So, the remaining questions to you, my last objector, drpepper:

Which dictionary did your teacher write?
Do you know the Japanese for "Logical Fallacy"?
Would your brother in law understand it if you did?
Do you think now would be a good time to learn it?

I would suggest you refrain from using logical fallacies yourself, like argumentum ad verecundiam if you expect to be taken seriously when pointing out other's logical fallacies.

In any case, everyone is missing the terribly obvious. The verb ageru is not written in kanji in a situation where it normally would be, which should be a huge red flag that it is the key to the question. This is not about standard Japanese usage, this is about how the JLPT is constructed.

[Cubed]

My teacher is at Sheffield University (UK) in the School of East Asian Studies.

She wrote the Kenkyusha New Collegiate Third Edition.

So, the remaining questions to you, my last objector, drpepper:

Which dictionary did your teacher write?
Do you know the Japanese for "Logical Fallacy"?
Would your brother in law understand it if you did?
Do you think now would be a good time to learn it?

I would suggest you refrain from using logical fallacies yourself, like argumentum ad verecundiam if you expect to be taken seriously when pointing out other's logical fallacies.

Ewww. Not quite.

Further down on that good link to Wikipedia, you should have noticed the following caveat to saying someone is using this type of argument:

Conditions for a legitimate argument from authority

The authority must have competence in an area, not just glamour, prestige, rank or popularity. A sports or entertainment figure making claims about foreign policy is an example of how this rule is frequently violated.

If I had said "The Japanese Government said so" you'd be right. But my teacher has competence so I'm appealing to intellect, not authority.

[Mulboyne]

Bugger...taking mine in London this year....going to be interesting to see what kind of Fucked Gaijins take this test in the UK.

See you there

What will you be up to Cubed?

[FG Lurker]

Bugger...taking mine in London this year....going to be interesting to see what kind of Fucked Gaijins take this test in the UK.

See you there

What will you be up to Cubed?

Level 4, if he studies a bit harder between now and then.

[Cubed]

Bugger...taking mine in London this year....going to be interesting to see what kind of Fucked Gaijins take this test in the UK.

See you there

What will you be up to Cubed?

Level 2. I should probably be doing level 1, but I've only recently started studying Japanese again, and I've never taken any tests like these before (only University tests).

I did do the Jetro JLRT last week and that was erm ... fun. How about you?

[sillygirl]

Me: doing Level 2.

Should be doing level 29 cos I haven't studied properly but I'm deluded!




Actually that's a big fat lie - have been studying like an idiot since I got back and accosting random Japanese looking people at the university library - are you Japanese? Korean? No thanks. How about you? Ah, Chinese, eh? etc

Anyone else taking it in London? I'll be wearing my FG shirt if you want to come and accost me.

[Charles]

If I had said "The Japanese Government said so" you'd be right. But my teacher has competence so I'm appealing to intellect, not authority.

Uh, no. You are claiming to be an authority because your teacher was an authority. You are not the authority, you are wrapping yourself in the authority of your teacher. Thus, you are using a false appeal to your own authority.
You skipped right over this bit:

Any argument should ideally be based solely on direct evidence, not on the authority of the messenger.

A correct appeal to authority is "In Dictionary X, it says Y." A false appeal to authority is "My teacher says Y and she wrote Dictionary X so she ought to know."

[Cubed]

Uh, no. You are claiming to be an authority because your teacher was an authority. You are not the authority, you are wrapping yourself in the authority of your teacher. Thus, you are using a false appeal to your own authority.

I'm not claiming to be the authority. I never did. drpepper asked his brother in law and I asked my teacher. I can't see how am I wrapping myself in her authority. She hasn't given her authority for me to wrap myself in, and I certainly can't take it. Are you sure you're not confusing authority and expertise there ...

You skipped right over this bit:

Any argument should ideally be based solely on direct evidence, not on the authority of the messenger.

Direct evidence. Well I'll have to persuade her to create a login on this site and respond to misfound challenges to logical fallacies. I think she won't be interested. Just a hunch.

A correct appeal to authority is "In Dictionary X, it says Y." A false appeal to authority is "My teacher says Y and she wrote Dictionary X so she ought to know."

No no no. An appeal based on competence is the correct appeal to authority. If she wrote the dictionary, there's do doubt whatsoever that she damn well should know principally because that's her field of expertise.

What you're saying is akin to remarking

"Well what does that Stephen Hawking guy know about astrophysics anyway ... "

Hey, I think Homer Simpson actually said that .

The Wikipedia example cites Arthur C Clarke talking about dental hygiene and Michael Winner about car insurance which are fields that they are not experts in.

My Japanese teacher is an expert in linguistics and Japanese. Again I think you've confused expertise and authority.

Before you respond, think carefully ...

[omae mona]

unsubscribe

[Cubed]

unsubscribe

Yeah me too. See you there sillygirl.

[Charles]

...An appeal based on competence is the correct appeal to authority. If she wrote the dictionary, there's do doubt whatsoever that she damn well should know principally because that's her field of expertise.

Right. Your teacher is allegedly an authority on Japanese language usage. She is not an expert on testing methodologies or she would not say the following (according to you)

Well, my Japanese Japanese teacher has been teaching for over 30 years and she said that this question was ambiguous and badly devised. Blah blah blah, wah wah wah

No, it's not ambiguous despite it not being written in the way it would be in typical usage. There is only one correct answer, even though the kana/kanji usage is deliberately ambiguous.
The question is not badly devised in the context of the JLPT. The phrase may be badly written in the context of general usage, but it is a test question intended to deceive you into making the wrong choice UNLESS you REALLY know how the test works.

[Cubed]

Leave it Charles. We've bored everyone already mate.

[Charles]

Leave it Charles. We've bored everyone already mate.

The JLPT is going to kick your ass.

[FG Lurker]

Leave it Charles. We've bored everyone already mate.

The JLPT is going to kick your ass.

He's taking level 4, Charles... Even a poorly trained monkey could pass level 4.

[Greji]

Leave it Charles. We've bored everyone already mate.

The JLPT is going to kick your ass.

He's taking level 4, Charles... Even a poorly trained monkey could pass level 4. ]

Charles did you pass level 4?

[Cubed]

The JLPT is going to kick your ass.

Because you can't? That doesn't figure ...

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

Cubed anybody can write a dictionary for e.g.

Dictionary of UTTER LOW LIVES
A. - American Oyaji... /{see W for WANKER

B. - BigBogger... /{see W for WANKER

C. - Charles.../{see W for WANKER

D.

E.

F. - Fucked Gaijin Lurker ... /{see W for WANKER

G. - GomiGirl .../{see B for BITCH

H.

I.

J.

K. - Kamome .../{see W for WANKER

L.

M.

N.

O.

P.

Q.

R.

S.

T.

U. - bikkle n. definition: nonexistant

V.

W.

wanker
A noun
1 tosser, jerk-off, wanker

terms of abuse for a masturbator
Category Tree:
entity
╚object; physical_object
╚living_thing; animate_thing
╚organism; being
╚person; individual; someone; somebody; mortal; human; soul
╚masturbator; onanist
╚tosser, jerk-off, wanker

wanker

noun {C} UK OFFENSIVE
1 a very stupid, unpleasant or useless person, usually a man:

- They're all a bunch of wankers!

X.

Y.

Z.

[FG Lurker]

NeoNecroNomiCron is a big floppy donkey dick.

You still here Nerfo? I thought you hated it here, were going to leave, and demanded that your account be removed?? Well, at least I don't have to listen to your spew anymore.

[james]

J.

hey.. feeling kinda left out here

[Charles]

Charles did you pass level 4?

Well, if you consider the practice exams, yeah, I passed L4, L3, and L2. The practice exams are real exams from the previous year.
But alas, I failed the REAL L2 by about 5 points, I aced everything but the listening section, which gave me extreme troubles due to my partial deafness. I had arranged for a special accommodation for my handicap, so they seated me right in front of the speakers and the volume was so LOUD it sounded distorted. Oops.

Anyway, I'm not trying to get into a fight, I'm just trying to help people preparing for the test, I've been through this all before and my experience could be useful. But alas, some people (especially beginners) think they know it all. Good luck with that.

[Maths Dude]

You forgot to put me on the list Necro.

[NeoNecroNomiCron]

Maths Dude and James I think ye are nice guys so you are not going on the dictionary. But I think FGL should have a double entry under cunt.

[kamome]

K. - Kamome .../{see W for WANKER

YEE HAWWWWWW! I made the list! This totally rawks!

[FG Lurker]

K. - Kamome .../{see W for WANKER

YEE HAWWWWWW! I made the list! This totally rawks!

Well, curiosity got the best of me so I had a look. Man, gotta say I'm honoured to be included in the list! I'm a lot newer here than most of the other inductees, and I even ranked a double-entry! Thanks Nerfo!!

[drpepper]

Well, if you consider the practice exams, yeah, I passed L4, L3, and L2. The practice exams are real exams from the previous year.
But alas, I failed the REAL L2 by about 5 points, I aced everything but the listening section, which gave me extreme troubles due to my partial deafness. I had arranged for a special accommodation for my handicap, so they seated me right in front of the speakers and the volume was so LOUD it sounded distorted. Oops.

Anyway, I'm not trying to get into a fight, I'm just trying to help people preparing for the test, I've been through this all before and my experience could be useful. But alas, some people (especially beginners) think they know it all. Good luck with that.

LOL, practice is just that, don't count for squat. Maybe you should shut up until you pass the thing, as it is your "experience" is in failure only.

Raise your hand if you have passed (L1)