SOPHIA UNIVERSITY

[tokyojoe]

I have heard the program is good. However, some have complained that foreign students felt isolated since they are in a separate part of the University. Since the classes are held in English, which was difficult for Japanese, some students felt the level was dumbed down a bit.

[carolfour]

i'll be in tokyo on january/2005... are there any basic japanese courses at sophia that i can attend?

[turkhunter]

I did study abroad at sophia for what was supposed to be a year, but left afte 8 months. Basiclly, Im not a fan of Sophia, the new head of the Japanese department in particular. Without going to deep into the whole situation, she is satan. I hear she got fired , or demoted, so maybe all is well now. Basiclly if you go, try to get into either intensive or the M level classes(they might have changed names since then). Oh , and regarding tuition, if you are study abroad then its your schools tuition you pay+ living costs, which are pretty high. If you go as a degree student then you get a good chunk of the tuition refunded, so really it doesnt turn out to be all that much more than in-state tuition in the US of A.

[Marked Trail]

Basiclly, Im not a fan of Sophia

I have to agree...Sophia grads of the "international program" have proved to be the worst engrish teachers I've hired.

[Mels]

Yes, Sophia was popular when I was there in the 80's. But I never thought about attending becaus I felt it wasnt very good...I did not think I would get too much out of that school.

Have you looked into Waseda? I have had some good friends that were accepted and spent a year there. I have heard good things about Waseda. Most of the college students I knew here in Sacto were recommended Waseda over Sophia.

Anyone else hear anything about the Waseda and Sophia comparison or have any thoughts?

[DJEB]

Have you looked into Waseda?

Some of my brightest students have gone through Waseda, but it does have a rep for boozing. Unfortunately, Takadanobaba is my connecting station which means I have to spend a lot of energy dodging platform pizza.

[zakkie13901]

hi guys,
in along the same line of this thread, i'm actually applyign to an MBA progran in Japan, and i thought any of you guys could care to enlighten me on which are the best business schools in japan?
i couldnt find any of that info online -- it's not like japan has some ranking system like US NEWS & REPORT thingy, so that's what i'm trying to find out, my interest is banking and finance area.

thanks!

[CrankyBastard]

higuy
in along the same line of that thread im trying to figure out what you said.
my interest is whist and mahjong.

[KanpaiQuigley]

I'm in the application process for Spring 2007 at Sophia. However, I'm not going for the Japanese program. I'm going for the Faculty of Comparative Culture (I'm a Journalism major here in the states, interested in international news/war correspondence). While visiting in May, I met a ton of Japanese students in the program who said they loved it there. I also, through the lovely intraweb, found a bunch of American and Canadian transfer students who are enjoying their stay. However, almost all of them did comment on how easy it was compared to their American universities. Which is fine with me. I'm at a private Uni. and the courseload is horrendous.

Since I wanna do international corr., going to an international school is a good call. I can also segway into English teaching to pay off my student loans while freelancing/blogging on the side.

The tuiton is NOTHING compared to my uni. now. Its around $40,000.00/per year with all of the fees plus room and board/meals. I heard Sophia gives out a LOT of scholarship money.

I spoke with a Japanese-American guy who was born in PA, going to the Uni. of Pittsburgh. He went to Sophia, and said that there were only 7 international transfer students last year for the entire school. All who applied got in, and 2 of the 7 were given full rides.

I've been reading a lot about the decline in registration for Japanese schools... now seems like a great time to apply for those looking for financial aid. I'm piss poor, on a semester off to work (my school raised tuition 6 grand over the summer), so I need every penny they will give me.

I have a question though. Anyone know about taking out loans for international school? In the event that I don't get a scholarship, I'm wondering how the hell I will fund whatever I don't raise by working. Also, what could an American college kid do for money in Tokyo? Male host bar? Hooker?

[KanpaiQuigley]

My application is finally complete and sent off to Tokyo...

When all is said and done, the application cost me about $400 bucks.

If I don't get in, I'm going to kill someone...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Dudes, get a degree in the West. A Japanese degree don't mean shit.

[KanpaiQuigley]

It's way cheaper to finish at Sophia... and its an internationally recognized university... and its in Tokyo...

[Samurai_Jerk]

It's way cheaper to finish at Sophia... and its an internationally recognized university... and its in Tokyo...

I repeat, a Japanese degree don't mean shit.

[KanpaiQuigley]

I don't give a fuck

I go to a tier 1 college in the U.S. and Sophia is highly regarded. It's an international degree, not strictly a Japanese degree. For my field, an international degree will be just fine.

Gotta love the positive vibes on this site!

[Charles]

I don't give a fuck

If you didn't want to listen to peoples' advice, why did you ask for it?

[Samurai_Jerk]

If you didn't want to listen to peoples' advice, why did you ask for it?

No shit.

KQ, You're much better off coming over through your tier one US university on some sort of study abroad program. A degree from a good US school is an international degree. Japanese schools are not generally highly regarded anywhere. And saying you like the idea of going to a J school because it's easier shows that you're not off to a good start into adulthood, anyway.

What kind of job can an American international student do in Tokyo? The same kind you do in the US. Work in a restaurant, bar, or convenience store. Pay is usually 800 to 900 yen an hour and your need to be able to speak some Japanese.

[Greji]

If you didn't want to listen to peoples' advice, why did you ask for it?

I supppose he may have considered that SJ's "Dudes, get a degree in the West. A Japanese degree don't mean shit.", may not have been the type of advice he was looking for.

Thousands of people from about the world, albeit mostly, Asia are coming to Japan to attend a myriad of schools. I would assume must people do not equate these degrees with one from Yale or Cambridge, but saying their degrees are just shit is not quite advice which would help in making an informed decicison. At a minimun, if SJ feels that they are shit, telling the person why comes to mind as the appropriate piece of advice.

[KanpaiQuigley]

Wow. Thank you, gboothe. I don't even need a reply after that.

I'm glad someone doesn't browse these threads just to bash the noobs

[Samurai_Jerk]

I supppose he may have considered that SJ's "Dudes, get a degree in the West. A Japanese degree don't mean shit.", may not have been the type of advice he was looking for.

Thousands of people from about the world, albeit mostly, Asia are coming to Japan to attend a myriad of schools. I would assume must people do not equate these degrees with one from Yale or Cambridge, but saying their degrees are just shit is not quite advice which would help in making an informed decicison. At a minimun, if SJ feels that they are shit, telling the person why comes to mind as the appropriate piece of advice.

If you're coming to FG to do research on student loans and university education you probably aren't the sharpest tool in the shed anyway. If you're asking what campus life is like or about specific experiences studying in Japan that's a different story.

Going somewhere like Sophia or ICU and getting a degree where all of your classes are in English, which KQ seems to imply he's doing (correct me if I'm wrong), doesn't really makes sense. Most of the guys I've met who've done that never really become fluent in Japanese. So when they're done they have the same job options locally as somone who just finished a stint on JET or a couple of years at NOVA and can get by OK in Japanese. On top of that, their options at home are limited compared to those of a fresh grad from a local school because they haven't been networking, doing internships, or taking part in campus recruiting. Furthermore, many companies that would be interested in someone who got a degree in Japan are likely to lose interest when they find out you aren't fluent in the language.

If you really want to learn Japanese and a get a degree here then start with a Japanese language school, followed by the ryugaku shiken, followed by entering a normal Japanese univeristy program. If you just want to spend some time fucking around in Tokyo while gettting some college credit then do a year on a study abroad program.

[Charles]

I supppose he may have considered that SJ's "Dudes, get a degree in the West. A Japanese degree don't mean shit.", may not have been the type of advice he was looking for.

Thousands of people from about the world, albeit mostly, Asia are coming to Japan to attend a myriad of schools. I would assume must people do not equate these degrees with one from Yale or Cambridge, but saying their degrees are just shit is not quite advice which would help in making an informed decicison. At a minimun, if SJ feels that they are shit, telling the person why comes to mind as the appropriate piece of advice.

The point being, if think you already know what advice is worth listening to, you're probably refusing to hear the most important advice you could get.

People may come from all over asia to go to schools in Japan, but they're not going to an English-based program at Sophia. If they could get into an English-based school, they wouldn't settle for a bottom-tier school like Sophia, they'd go to the USA. And IIRC, his program is Comparative Cultures, which is sort of like Sociology but dumbed down so you don't have to take statistics, it's hardly worth undertaking such a degree even at a decent US school. What's the point? Proving you could get into a school that is vastly inferior to your US school? Even Japanese language instruction is better in US schools than in Japan. Are you trying to get an education, or do you want an excuse to hang out in Japan for a couple of years? I expect that Mr. KQ will get a very expensive education in one simple fact: he can't afford to go to Sophia, it will cost too much in the short term and sacrifices will be to great in the long term. Everyone is just putting it bluntly, since Mr. KQ seems to be too dense to take the subtle hints.

[Greji]

Going somewhere like Sophia or ICU and getting a degree where all of your classes are in English, which KQ seems to imply he's doing (correct me if I'm wrong), doesn't really makes sense. Most of the guys I've met who've done that never really become fluent in Japanese.

I don't quite agree. I've met some very fluent people who attended Sofia, not Jochi which is how they refer to the J-language side of the university. Granted some of them had a background in Japan, but several did not and did quite well in the language. I suppose it is what you make of your time. Student loans from are readily available if you are resident in Japan (and reasonably employed), which I do not think would be of much help to KQ just coming into country.

I do know have two friends who have entered the civil service service system in the US, based on their degree (and language proficiency) from Sophia and are doing quite well. There are quite a few Sofia people in and around the business community. So, I am just saying that to say the degree doesn't meant shit is a bit overboard as advice, without some further qualification.

You don't even need to work on a degree to just hang out and get YBF.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I have to agree with Charles that Asian students studying in Japan are often doing so because the US or another English speaking country is not an option for them. When I was studying at a Japanese language school most of my classmates were doing college prep. Most of them also said thay they'd rather study English and go to the US but it's too expensive. Several Koreans weny as far as to say, rich Koreans study in the US and poor Koreans study in Japan. That's purely anecdotal evidence. However, Alex Kerr made the same claim in "Dogs and Demons." Of course there were the excpetions. Those were the kids here because they're obsessed with anime, J-pop, or Japanese fashion. Or the older students who were already working in a business where Japanese is needed.

I also agree with Charles that you'll generally get a better Japanese language education in the US. Especially since most programs are geared towards Korean and Chinese speakers. The Stanford Center in Yokohama being an exception to that.

[KanpaiQuigley]

OK, here it goes...

First of all, I go to La Salle University. It's a great school, but it's uber expensive. I'm talking upwards of $40k a year. I enjoy the education I'm getting there, but I want to broaden my horizons. I major in Journalism with a dual minor in international relations and Japanese. Through my minors, I went to Japan this past May through a study abroad course in Japanese economics since the bubble burst. I've read Dogs and Demons alongside several others. I'm currently reading Confucius Lives Next Door by T.R. Reid, which is much more of an inspiration than a negative viewpoint. I plan on entering the field of international correspondence. Doing my 2 years at home and 2 years abroad will help me more than hurt me, coming from professors AT La Salle. I plan on taking as many Japanese language classes as possible while at Sophia, not sitting in the Comparative Culture building socializing with other Americans 24/7. I am intrigued by culture and I am a very driven and talented student. HOWEVER, I am from a poor family, and I'm the first person to even go to college, let alone leave the country. Sophia is roughly $12,000 A YEAR. Oh, and did I mention that they have a job placement program with CNN International?

I don't wanna go to Japan to watch anime, read manga, and enter illegal drift racing competitions. I want to go to Japan to further my education while giving me the opportunity to LIVE another culture, not just experience it for a few weeks. You try to play me like a fool who has mom and dad paying for me to go there in the first place, just to spend my two years fucking up and partying. This is not the case. I'm working my ass off at a bullshit job in filthy ass New Jersey 40 hours a week, taking the bus every fucking day because I'd rather save than pay for car insurance, so I can afford my airfare and as much of the tuiton as possible so I don't get ass raped with loans (I've had enough of that with La Salle the past 2 years because my scholarship doesn't cover everything).

Oh, and also, Sophia gives a lot of aid money and scholarships to students in rough financial circumstances. I have a chance at a full ride. If it doesn't work out, of course I'll just finish out over here and do a semester abroad or something. But right now is the best time to get the fuck out of where I am and start working towards a better life. And I honestly believe, regardless of what you guys think, that if accepted to Sophia on scholarship... I will be on that track to a much brighter future.

So keep on putting me down. I get it from everyone else every single day, and it just doesn't work anymore, so you're wasting your time. Helping me out would be a lot more refreshing.

[Samurai_Jerk]

OK, here it goes...

First of all, I go to La Salle University. It's a great school, but it's uber expensive. I'm talking upwards of $40k a year. I enjoy the education I'm getting there, but I want to broaden my horizons. I major in Journalism with a dual minor in international relations and Japanese. Through my minors, I went to Japan this past May through a study abroad course in Japanese economics since the bubble burst. I've read Dogs and Demons alongside several others. I'm currently reading Confucius Lives Next Door by T.R. Reid, which is much more of an inspiration than a negative viewpoint. I plan on entering the field of international correspondence. Doing my 2 years at home and 2 years abroad will help me more than hurt me, coming from professors AT La Salle. I plan on taking as many Japanese language classes as possible while at Sophia, not sitting in the Comparative Culture building socializing with other Americans 24/7. I am intrigued by culture and I am a very driven and talented student. HOWEVER, I am from a poor family, and I'm the first person to even go to college, let alone leave the country. Sophia is roughly $12,000 A YEAR. Oh, and did I mention that they have a job placement program with CNN International?

I don't wanna go to Japan to watch anime, read manga, and enter illegal drift racing competitions. I want to go to Japan to further my education while giving me the opportunity to LIVE another culture, not just experience it for a few weeks. You try to play me like a fool who has mom and dad paying for me to go there in the first place, just to spend my two years fucking up and partying. This is not the case. I'm working my ass off at a bullshit job in filthy ass New Jersey 40 hours a week, taking the bus every fucking day because I'd rather save than pay for car insurance, so I can afford my airfare and as much of the tuiton as possible so I don't get ass raped with loans (I've had enough of that with La Salle the past 2 years because my scholarship doesn't cover everything).

Oh, and also, Sophia gives a lot of aid money and scholarships to students in rough financial circumstances. I have a chance at a full ride. If it doesn't work out, of course I'll just finish out over here and do a semester abroad or something. But right now is the best time to get the fuck out of where I am and start working towards a better life. And I honestly believe, regardless of what you guys think, that if accepted to Sophia on scholarship... I will be on that track to a much brighter future.

So keep on putting me down. I get it from everyone else every single day, and it just doesn't work anymore, so you're wasting your time. Helping me out would be a lot more refreshing.

No one is trying to change your mind. Personally I don't give a shit if you want to drop out of college and pursue a lifelong dream of being a gas station attendant. But you posted on a forum and asked what people thought. We gave you an opinion you weren't happy with, so suddenly we are trying to drag you down just like everyone else. No one even mentioned anything about your intentions, background, or money, so I don't know where you got the idea that we picture you as some rich boy being bankrolled by mommy and daddy looking to party down in the otaku holy land of Tokyo. You must have a chip on your shoulder about something. You should realize that when a lot of us post opinions on here it's not just aimed at the original person asking the question. It's being put here for anyone who comes by and checks out the thread with some interest in what others have to say about Japan.

BTW, you're not the first person in the world who's had to bust his ass studying and rack up huge debt to pay for school. So you won't get any sympathy from me.

[Charles]

We don't mean to harsh your buzz over educational plans, but we've all seen the pitfalls as well as the good stuff. We just don't want you to go over with stars in your eyes, and maybe not get the education you expect.

Most people in your situation would just do their junior year as an exchange student, then come back to the US senior year to graduate at home. If you were really committed to your Japanese exchange school after a year, you could transfer there instead of coming home.

[Pachipro]

For what's it's worth Kanpai I graduated from Sophia back in '81 with a degree in International Business and Economics and it was well accepted here in the US and quickly opened up a few doors at Japanese companies - more so than someone with a degree from a US uni I was competing with because 1) I could speak Japanese and 2) Sophia (Jochi) is highly regarded among Japanese executives. And I started looking for work at 35 when I returned to the US in '88 with no business experience other than owning my own English school and my degree which I never used in Japan. Within a few months I had several job offers from both Japanese and American companies who were willing to pay very well for my language ability and my experience living in Japan for 16 years. And they were not entry level jobs either. On the job training I guess you'd call it.

Back then tuition was not as expensive as it is today and I was able to finance most of it through the US Gov's GI bill check of $321/month. The rest, along with my rent and bills, was financed by teaching English at nights and on Saturdays. By the time I graduated, tuition had increased so much that the $321/month was barely paying for tuition let alone books and rent for my 2DK apartment 1 1/2 hours out of Tokyo. Also the yen declining from 300/US$1 to 170 and back to 250 and down to 220, etc was not helping. So teaching English was a must as they did not offer scholorships back then and I was not receiving money from home.

A minimum of two years of Japanese courses were required when attending for the full 4 years. What you get out of it is what you put into it. I lived away from the school, had no foreign friends other than classmates, lived alone and was therefore forced to learn the language. None of my Japanese friends spoke English well and it was easier for me to speak in Japanese with them.

IMO it is a helluva lot easier and faster to learn the language by being there and immursed in the culture and living as a "Japanese" where you are forced to speak and learn it everyday unlike learning it in the US where, after you leave class, you have no opportunity to speak, read, or hear the language until your next class. Living there it is 24/7/365 if you are serious.

Sure, I had some English speaking classmates and such who, although they took the two years of Japanese, never really learned the language. Their folks were wealthy, they never had to work to pay for their schooling, and they lived in expensive foreign style apartments or houses alone or with their parents. Their free time was spent with their own kind and therefore they didn't need to learn to speak the language. And still there were others who didn't learn because they were leaving after graduatiuon. And then there were others who were serious about learning the language because they wanted to stay or use it in the future. Which course you choose is up to you.

It was said above that Sophia was easy compared to US universities. Since when? Back then we had tons of homework and reading, term papers to write, mid-terms and final exams and the grading system was as strict as in the US with a 2.0 GPA minimum to stay in school. Maybe things have become easier these days I don't know.

It's been my experience here in the US interviewing prospective employees that, even though the new grads may have a degree from a respectable uni here in the US, alot are dumb as shit and have no writing or other skills whatsoever. It is rare to find one outside of the technical field or a private university that does. It is my opinion that the majority of uni's here in the US are just as easy as those in Japan to graduate from and I did not take their uni into consideration when interviewing them. Their basics in writing and communication along with knowledge of basic business or their field was more important. The degree only told me they persevered and could stick it out. Heck, a recent survey proved just that point in that the majority of recent college grads have the skills of of HS grad.

Therefore, if you are serious about going for four years I say go. The experience alone will be worth it, but it is not a piece of cake by far. Japan can be a very easy place to live in or it could be your worst nightmare. You will probably be lonely at times. You will face discrimination especially in looking for a place to live if you look on your own (which is the cheapest way to go rent-wise BTW if you can afford the "key" and "thank you" money). It is expensive and it is crowded; kids will point at and stare at you and adults may just avoid you altogether. You may be refused entry to some establishments.

If you are thin skinned and easily offended at being called a "gaijin" or people ignoring you when you speak Japanese or people refusing to sit next to you on a train, or people who, knowing how long you have lived in Japan, are still surprised that you can use chopsticks, enjoy Japanese baths and breakfasts, sleep under a futon, etc. along with many other irritating things then you will not make it.

Also, some women will love you only because you are a foreigner and some may well use you as a trophy or a token. Getting laid is easy as is falling in love, but keeping that love is not and you can be severely burned in that area also. You may fall in love with a woman, and she you, only to have her break it off because her father doesn't like gaijins and she will not go against her parents. Been there, experienced that! It can be an advantage or a disadvantage being a foreigner depending on how you play your cards and how easily you are offended or not, and how much you understand, and can accept, the Japanese culture and psyche regarding their attitude towards foreigners.

It is said that, when living in Japan, most foreigners either love it or hate it. There is no middleground after the honeymoon is over up until the second or third year. The true test of whether you can live in Japan, and enjoy living there, will come then when you have experienced fully both the good and bad aspects of living there. If you can make it that far you will probably enjoy living there as a foreigner and Japan will probably be a wonderful experience for you for more than a few years. If you can't, you may well return to the US with a bitter taste in your mouth only to completely trash Japan on BB's and forums about Japan and to anyone who will listen.

I have witnessed both kinds of people, those that have come to love Japan and accept it for what it is and those that couldn't. I hope you do not get your dreams and expectations shattered.

[Samurai_Jerk]

For what's it's worth Kanpai I graduated from Sophia back in '81 with a degree in International Business and Economics and it was well accepted here in the US and quickly opened up a few doors at Japanese companies - more so than someone with a degree from a US uni I was competing with because 1) I could speak Japanese and 2) Sophia (Jochi) is highly regarded among Japanese executives. And I started looking for work at 35 when I returned to the US in '88 with no business experience other than owning my own English school and my degree which I never used in Japan. Within a few months I had several job offers from both Japanese and American companies who were willing to pay very well for my language ability and my experience living in Japan for 16 years. And they were not entry level jobs either. On the job training I guess you'd call it.

Man, you're talking nearly 20 years ago during the bubble when anything Japanese was considered gold. I'm not surprised that your had some nice opportunities. And opening doors at Japanese companies isn't a good thing unless your only other options are unemployment and homelessness.