Monday morning myths?

[Charles]

What part of didn't you understand? You need a triple expresso to match a single cup of brewed coffee. They are comparing single servings, in each of the links & quotes provided.

I don't know where you pulled 40mg/oz from, but it's wrong. More like 80/oz, and a shot is 1.5oz. A shot of espresso is roughly the same caffeine as an 8 oz cup of coffee. Those figures agree with what the Gaggia factory reps said when they installed the massive commercial espresso machine in my mom's restaurant. I will trust them over random wikipedia editors.

[Mike Oxlong]

http://www.cspinet.org/nah/caffeine/caffeine_corner.htm

Coffee, short (8 oz.) Starbucks 250 mg. caffeine
Espresso (1 oz.) Starbucks 35 mg.

http://www.somacon.com/p147.php

Here is the caffeine content of Starbucks coffee and espresso, given to me upon request by Starbucks customer service...

See for yourself Chuckles.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1084908682911_80317882

Starbucks (Starbucks spokesperson Lara Wyss)
"We emphasize that any absolute numbers reported on caffeine levels in Starbucks coffee do not reflect what a customer would receive in every cup of Starbucks coffee. There are many variables that contribute to caffeine content from cup to cup.

"Regarding Starbucks regular drip coffees, customers can expect an average of 160 milligrams of caffeine per eight ounces.

"Regarding Starbucks decaffeinated drip coffees, customers can expect between 4. 8 milligrams and 11.2 milligrams of caffeine per eight ounces.

"Regarding one ounce of Starbucks espresso (which is one shot in an espresso-based beverage), customers can expect an average of 89 milligrams of caffeine.

"Regarding one ounce of Starbucks decaffeinated espresso, customers can expect an average of 4. 8 milligrams to 11 milligrams of caffeine.

What my friend told me matches what Starbucks spokespeople have said in interviews. What is available on most websites. What you say is backed up by your "mom's restaurant's supplier", which may or may not be fictional.

No doubt you'll "know someone else who's in the biz". Chuckie's m.o. Let's keep checking...
http://download.npr.org.edgesuite.net/anon.npr-www/chart.pdf

Espresso vs. Coffee: Despite its eye-opening reputation, espresso actually contains less caffeine than brewed coffee, due to its deep roast and quick brewing. You can actually drink three shots of Starbucks espresso and get about the same 195-milligram dose as a 12-ounce coffee.

NPR. Bunch of hacks, right?

[Charles]

What my friend told me matches what Starbucks spokespeople have said in interviews. What is available on most websites.

Your sources don't even agree with each other. One says 35mg, the other says 89mg which is closer to my numbers. Go ahead and believe whatever you like. All I can say is that if you're only getting 35mg in your espresso, you need to go to find a REAL barista that knows how to pull a proper shot.

[Mike Oxlong]

Your sources don't even agree with each other. One says 35mg, the other says 89mg which is closer to my numbers.

The sources all say espresso has less caffeine per serving than regular drip coffees. Whether it's double or triple the amount doesn't matter quite so much. You will see some variation, by type of bean, roasting, brewed at home or in a coffee shop, fineness of grind. It's all on those websites if you take the time to read. You want more caffeine? Get a triple espresso, or one tall Starbucks coffee-of-the-day.

That's why I gave you a variety of links. You can compare home brewed coffees & espressos. Those made in specialty shops. Cross comparisons. Gives you a better idea of where these myths come from.

Sure, comparing an average cup of drip coffee made at home to an espresso made in a specialty shop will give fairly similar numbers for total caffeine content. Comparing Starbucks drip coffee to home pulled shots of espresso will make drip coffee look like rocket fuel. Looking at the numbers for only Starbucks, or only homemade will give much more meaningful data.

[TFG]

Espresso! Blah

All you need is a mirror, a new rolled up bank note up your nose and a couple of good tracks about 5 inches long and 5mm deep.

[maninjapan]

mike anyone can quote

http://www.energyfiend.com/caffeine-content/espresso

Values ranged from 58 mgs up to 185mg for a double shot.

http://coffeetea.about.com/library/blcaffeine.htm

Double espresso (2oz) 45-100 mg
Brewed coffee (8 oz) 60-120 mg

and at half the volume , if we go from the upper range, per volume espresso has more kick, but opposite end of the scale.

You'll also find a decent barista knows it takes time to get the water through the beans - not the rushed jobs you'll get in places.

think you are getting a bit confused by cbv (caffeine by volume ) - whilst drip coffee has more caffeine in it, it also has a larger volume, so its more diluted.
240mg divided by 360ml (12oz) works out to 0.6 mg/ml
now
89mg divided by 30ml (1oz) works out to be 2.97mg/ml

which one has more kick now?!

and if we scale it up now

so times by 12 to balance it out espresso still wins.

(someone check my maths please cos its early)

[Mike Oxlong]

[quote="maninjapan"]mike anyone can quote

...think you are getting a bit confused by cbv (caffeine by volume ]
"Man", it appears you are the one who's confused. Did you actually read thru the posts and links my pal Charles and I made? You'll see that the links and quotes show caffeine content per serving. Do you really think you are the only one who knows the serving size is different for an espresso and cup of drip brewed coffee? If you'd taken the time to read, you'd see that everyone agrees that espresso is more potent for an equivalent volume. If you wanna drink a full cup of straight espresso, you will get more caffeine that the same sized cup of coffee. Our discussion was for caffeine content per standard serving size. And matching home brewed to home brewed, Starbucks to Starbucks.

Yes, a good barista can make a real strong espresso with loads o' caffeine. If he then went ahead and made a real strong drip brewed coffee, there'd still be more caffeine in that serving. If you really wanna kick, start popping Wake-ups (or whatever caffeine pills are called in your neck-of-the-woods).

[maninjapan]

caffeine content per serving size is a stupid way to relate it though.

thats like saying America is more intelligent because there are more people there than compared to say Britain.

[maninjapan]

Speaking of myths, the ol' expresso will perk you up more than coffee myth seems to still be floating around.

Expresso beans are a very dark roast, and more caffeine leaches out of the beans before they get to market and end up in you.

Expresso is made by quickly passing pressurized steam through the ground beans, so that the water is in relatively shorter contact with the grinds compared with drip brewed coffee.

The result of long dark roasting is a stronger taste, with less caffeine kick. The added result of the method of preparation is even less caffeine, but that strong flavour that fools people into thinking they are getting a real dose.

All that said, however, the placebo effect is real.

just to quote you!

Espresso doesn't mean fast - it actually means pressure and you force the water through under pressure - generally the slower it comes through the stronger the drink.

Another common myth blown apart.

[Mike Oxlong]

It takes maybe 25 seconds or so to pull a shot of espresso. It takes longer than that (several minutes) to properly brew a cup of coffee. So yes, the method of preparation is fast, in comparison. Again you've quoted without completely reading through the quote.

Expresso is made by quickly passing pressurized steam through the ground beans, so that the water is in relatively shorter contact with the grinds compared with drip brewed coffee.

That says it all, eh. Relatively shorter contact. Making a shot of espresso is fast relative to making a cup of coffee. "ManinJapan", better go have yerself a cup o' joe.

[Mike Oxlong]

http://www.coffeeresearch.org/coffee/brewing.htm
Procedure of Making Coffee: Directions

The following general rules apply to each coffee making process discussed. Coffee should be brewed for 4.5-5 minutes using a ratio of 55 grams of ground coffee per liter of filtered water (195-205°F). It is convenient to use 2 tablespoons of coffee per 6 ounces of filtered water. Filtered water and spring water are recommended. Tap water imparts off flavors to the coffee and some minerals are essential to coffee flavor. Distilled water is not recommended for brewing coffee as it lacks the minerals to bring out the natural flavors of the coffee.

http://www.coffeeresearch.org/espresso/potential.htm
Timeliness - Act quickly, but carefully. You should spend no longer than 30 seconds for the time it takes to dose, distribute, tamp, pre-heat, and brew the espresso.

[maninjapan]

so in fact what you are saying is that the shorter the contact time - the more caffeine in the same amount of liquid...

[maninjapan]

seriously this my last post on this because I know for a fact that espresso has a higher ratio of caffeine per serving than drip coffee does.

I know for a fact the caffeine dose in one espresso enters your body faster than the drip coffee does.

I know for a fact that on Monday mornings I have tried drinking drip coffees and don't get the same effect- but that is because I drink a double/triple as aforementioned thus getting more caffeine in a hit.

Also some of the staff you get in Starbucks/Tullys/Doutor haven't got a clue a clue and just whack it all in - you know when you get served by a trainee that you are gonna get a crap cup of coffee.

I know that this discussion is pointless because it is going anywhere fast apart from Mike just copying and pasting random internet posts that don't often match up, even with irrefutable facts that lean towards espresso given you a better hit, he will still come back.

It was fun while it lasted but leaving it a that until you can come up with some coherent point.