Jobs for the Fluent? (JLPT 1+)

[grndmsteradv]

Hey, guys. This question is coming from a newbie, so play nice

I'm current a sophomore at a top liberal arts school (top 10) in the United States and am a Japanese major. My Japanese is currently around JLPT level 2 and I've yet to actually go to Japan. So, after I study abroad my junior year, I feel that achieving JLPT 1 won't be too much of a problem.

My question to you guys is this: what are some fields where Japanese-fluent native English speakers are in demand? I've received advice to go for jobs at embassies, etc. but I've not actually found much more than general and vague suggestions.

I'd be happy with a career in either the US or Japan, as long as my big investment in learn the Japanese language, history, etc. can be put to some use.

I've been learning towards a career in either finance or law, as I have interest in both fields. There is finance recruiting at my school and we have quite good placement into law and graduate schools in general, but what is the actual demand/utility of knowing Japanese in these professions? Would translation/interpreting be a more realistic career field for me to get into than law,etc.?

Thanks for your answers in advance!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Hey, guys. This question is coming from a newbie, so play nice

I'm current a sophomore at a top liberal arts school (top 10) in the United States and am a Japanese major. My Japanese is currently around JLPT level 2 and I've yet to actually go to Japan. So, after I study abroad my junior year, I feel that achieving JLPT 1 won't be too much of a problem.

My question to you guys is this: what are some fields where Japanese-fluent native English speakers are in demand? I've received advice to go for jobs at embassies, etc. but I've not actually found much more than general and vague suggestions.

I'd be happy with a career in either the US or Japan, as long as my big investment in learn the Japanese language, history, etc. can be put to some use.

I've been learning towards a career in either finance or law, as I have interest in both fields. There is finance recruiting at my school and we have quite good placement into law and graduate schools in general, but what is the actual demand/utility of knowing Japanese in these professions? Would translation/interpreting be a more realistic career field for me to get into than law,etc.?

Thanks for your answers in advance!

Jobs in Tokyo: If you want to make money go into finance or law and not into translation/interpreting. In law, there are plenty of jobs for foreign associates in Tokyo. All the better if you speak, read, and write Japanese. In finance it really depends on what you can do. If you're talking front office positions in investment banking then you don't necessarily need to be able to speak Japanese, but it'd certainly help. If you're talking operations or accounting in investment banking then Japanese becomes a lot more important. I mention investment baking because it's the one area in the finance world that foreigners work in relatively large numbers. If I were you I'd either go for law or front office investment banking. Banking IT is also a good area for the gaijin who wants to work in Japan.

[Charles]

..My Japanese is currently around JLPT level 2 and I've yet to actually go to Japan. So, after I study abroad my junior year, I feel that achieving JLPT 1 won't be too much of a problem.

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Don't count your chickens before they're hatched.

Good point. The jump from Level 2 to Level 1 is pretty fucking big.

[grndmsteradv]

Good point. The jump from Level 2 to Level 1 is pretty fucking big.

I certainly know that. Still, my question remains that if in theory I could make that rather difficult jump what would be a good field to make my mark?

P.S. Thanks for the suggestions, Samurai_Jerk. Do you actually know anyone working in investment banking (I take it you mean M&A, etc.)? I've as of yet been unable to get a straight answer as to whether BB firms will ship analysts to Tokyo (I know they do to Hong Kong). Also, would M&A/corporate finance be better than sales/trading (i.e. in sales I'd been able to sell Japanese securities to Americans, Australians, etc.)?

Thanks for the replies so far.

[Takechanpoo]

Do you actually know anyone working in investment banking (I take it you mean M&A, etc.)? I've as of yet been unable to get a straight answer as to whether BB firms will ship analysts to Tokyo (I know they do to Hong Kong). Also, would M&A/corporate finance be better than sales/trading

You dude want to be a employee of vulture fund?
You are a Japan's enemy pretending to be Japan's friend, dude.

[omae mona]

Good point. The jump from Level 2 to Level 1 is pretty fucking big.

I think that depends on how you studied the language. For some people, I think the jump from 3 to 2 might be bigger, as Level 2 requires much more advanced grammar skills. In some ways, I don't think there's much real study you can do for Level 1 except to spend lots of time listening to and reading real-life material. I thought it was just Level 2 with a bigger vocabulary list.

In fact, grndmsteradv, you might be better served by learning lots of vocabulary apropos to the field you're interested in, rather than studying in particular for the Level 1. If you're interested in finance, for example, try to get through a few Nikkei articles every day. You can read it with Level 2 skills and a dictionary by your side, and eventually you won't need the dictionary.

[kamome]

I certainly know that. Still, my question remains that if in theory I could make that rather difficult jump what would be a good field to make my mark?

P.S. Thanks for the suggestions, Samurai_Jerk. Do you actually know anyone working in investment banking (I take it you mean M&A, etc.)? I've as of yet been unable to get a straight answer as to whether BB firms will ship analysts to Tokyo (I know they do to Hong Kong). Also, would M&A/corporate finance be better than sales/trading (i.e. in sales I'd been able to sell Japanese securities to Americans, Australians, etc.)?

Thanks for the replies so far.

You are letting the tail wag the dog here. As only a sophomore in college, your first question should be what you want to do with your life. It seems clear from all of your questions that you haven't decided if you want to be a lawyer or an investment banker or a securities trader or a diplomat. And the answer to that question should not be influenced by your Japanese language background. Those questions depend on your intellectual abilities and aptitude, your personality and other goals such as the level of compensation, job security, job satisfaction and lifestyle that you want.

There are ways to get to Japan within all of the fields you mentioned. In any case, you certainly should not start your career in Japan. If you are looking to "make your mark" in a particular field, do so in the U.S. BEFORE you go to Japan. Get yourself a few years of experience in your chosen field before you go abroad. It's extremely hard to make any kind of a mark in a field once you are in Japan - and impossible if you have no experience before you go there.

So take this one step at a time - get some internships, figure out your path in life, get the job or the secondary education you need to walk down that path and THEN, after getting your US experience in your field, think about whether you can or even want to transition your career to Japan. If you are a professional, that decision to move to Japan will be a difficult one to make and will involve a number of variables.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I certainly know that. Still, my question remains that if in theory I could make that rather difficult jump what would be a good field to make my mark?

P.S. Thanks for the suggestions, Samurai_Jerk. Do you actually know anyone working in investment banking (I take it you mean M&A, etc.)? I've as of yet been unable to get a straight answer as to whether BB firms will ship analysts to Tokyo (I know they do to Hong Kong). Also, would M&A/corporate finance be better than sales/trading (i.e. in sales I'd been able to sell Japanese securities to Americans, Australians, etc.)?

Thanks for the replies so far.

I meet gaijin working in IB all the time. Some came to Japan fresh out of school as English teachers and made the jump, others came after establishing themselves in the same profession back home, and other were sent over by HO. The thing all of them have in common though is a particular skill that not many of the locals have. For example, if you're a Murex master and can run derivitives in you sleep, you can almost definitely get an IB job in Tokyo without Japanese skills.

I have to agree with kamome though. Figure out what you like doing and do that. You won't be happy or successful doing a job just because it's Japan related or you get to use Japanese.

[grndmsteradv]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

kamome, I fully realize that as a college sophomore I'm getting somewhat ahead of my self, but I would still like to know how realistic it would be for me to work in Japan/with Japanese clients and in which businesses demand exists for bilingual professionals.

Also, the two fields that I am most seriously looking at are finance and law. True, they are very different worlds, but they have many similar aspects and draw somewhat similar people. Both are infamous for their long hours, highly competitive culture, and high burnout rate. Despite these issues I am still attracted to these fields most strongly. I gave the example of a diplomat merely to illustrate the kind of work I've been told (whether true or not) exists by friends and family.

Samurai_Jerk, I am curious why you suggest against translation/interpreting work. I've read/been told (again, I'm not sure of the validity) that good opportunities exist for professionals with experience and an in-demand specialization (i.e. patent translation, deposition interpreting, etc.) Do you have experience/knowledge that contradicts this?

Thanks again for being patience with a newb!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Samurai_Jerk, I am curious why you suggest against translation/interpreting work. I've read/been told (again, I'm not sure of the validity) that good opportunities exist for professionals with experience and an in-demand specialization (i.e. patent translation, deposition interpreting, etc.) Do you have experience/knowledge that contradicts this?

If you're really truly interested in either or both of those fields then go for it. However, translation will eventually all be done by computers so I don't think it's a good longterm career choice for a young person. Interpreting probably will too but that's further down the road.

If you're interested in both finance and law then finacial law is an option and is the area where most the foreign associates in Tokyo seem to work.

Anyway, you should really talk to people already doing what you're interested in. They can give you the best idea of what's out there and what path you need to take.

[kamome]

Anyway, you should really talk to people already doing what you're interested in. They can give you the best idea of what's out there and what path you need to take.

grndmstadv, my career experience is probably most on point to what you are asking about. As I said, there are opportunities to get to Japan or work with Japanese clients in all of the fields you mentioned, so the Japan issue really is secondary. You need to figure out whether you want to go to law school or to start work at a broker-dealer trading securities/derivative instruments or to be an investment banker. And you need to be successful in any of those fields (as a student first and then as an employee) before you can take on international work or specialize in Japanese clients.

I'd like to know what you think is similar about finance and law? The fact that you can make a good living and work long hours? True, but in my opinion, those are superficial similarities. They are completely different specialties and require a body of knowledge and a way of thinking that are completely different from each other. One way to (sort of) mesh the two careers is to get a combined JD/MBA, which will enable you to get both degrees after five intensive years of study. If you went into finance only, you might want to hold the chartered financial analyst designation. Or you might want to become a certified public accountant, which is a quasi-legal and quasi-financial career. The path you want to take is THE threshold issue to be decided now. The Japan question is pretty much a non-issue.

[grndmsteradv]

I'd like to know what you think is similar about finance and law? The fact that you can make a good living and work long hours? True, but in my opinion, those are superficial similarities. They are completely different specialties and require a body of knowledge and a way of thinking that are completely different from each other.

You're right, kamome, my comparison of the two fields was tenuous at best.

kamome, I have one more question just to make certain of what you're advising. There are some law programs such as Columbia and U of Michigan which claim to offer strong ties with Japan, including study abroad opportunities and job placement. In your opinion, in the hypothetical, would it be inadvisable for a young lawyer's career to intern/start at a major foreign law firm in Tokyo? Would it be better if said student spent a few years at a major law firm in the US before they attempt to make the move abroad?

Thank you again.

[jingai]

kamome, I fully realize that as a college sophomore I'm getting somewhat ahead of my self, but I would still like to know how realistic it would be for me to work in Japan/with Japanese clients and in which businesses demand exists for bilingual professionals.

I have friends I studied with at college in Japan and the US doing both fields. Start with study abroad, try to get summer business internships in Japan, and see if you really want to go down one of those routes. Then get your Japanese up to snuff and get your law degree (consider Temple as they have a Japan branch) or business degree and make it happen. If you're determined to achieve your goals you'll make it.

[kamome]

You're right, kamome, my comparison of the two fields was tenuous at best.

kamome, I have one more question just to make certain of what you're advising. There are some law programs such as Columbia and U of Michigan which claim to offer strong ties with Japan, including study abroad opportunities and job placement. In your opinion, in the hypothetical, would it be inadvisable for a young lawyer's career to intern/start at a major foreign law firm in Tokyo? Would it be better if said student spent a few years at a major law firm in the US before they attempt to make the move abroad?

Thank you again.

It's a bad idea to start a legal career in Japan without getting a few years' experience in the States first. Perhaps counterintuitively, your knowledge of US law is what makes you valuable in Japan - not your ability to speak Japanese (although the language ability is always considered a bonus).

Both UM and Columbia are excellent law schools regardless of their Japanese program. Whatever you do, don't choose a law school on the basis of one particular program. Choose a school based on its rank and reputation (and of course your ability to afford the tuition or assume the debt burden from school loans).* Even if Columbia did not have a Japan-related program but was the highest ranked law school that accepted you, you definitely should go there. Believe me, the higher the rank/reputation of your law school, the more opportunities will open up for you down the road regardless of what you want to do. Shoot for at least a couple of top-tens when you apply, several top twenty-fives and perhaps one or two local "safety" schools.

Also, I'm not too enamored with the Temple U law program in Japan. I recall meeting people who felt that they didn't learn much and essentially wasted their time that semester. Perhaps it would be better to use your time learning core subjects at your own school to pass the bar exam.

*Edit: The Japanese are going to be impressed by superficial criteria like the "name brand" of your school anyway, so you would be doing yourself a favor in that sense by going to the highest ranked school possible.

[Greji]

IBoth UM and Columbia are excellent law schools

Wow Bird. Did you go to Columbia with Sachi?

[FG Lurker]

My Japanese is currently around JLPT level 2 and I've yet to actually go to Japan. So, after I study abroad my junior year, I feel that achieving JLPT 1 won't be too much of a problem.

As others have already mentioned, Level 2 to Level 1 is a fairly large jump, especially in required kanji knowledge. The minimum passing score is also 10 percentage points higher.

Separate from the JLPT levels there is another possible problem: pronunciation. You could certainly be an exception, but in my experience English speakers who have studied Japanese extensively outside Japan tend to have pronunciation that ranges from poor to nearly unintelligible. This is a big issue as most Japanese have a very tough time understanding people with non-standard pronunciation.

If it turns out that this applies to you then the path to a reasonable level of fluency will be a lot more difficult (and time consuming) than expected.

[teru]

I too am looking for work in Japan (in Osaka or the Kinki region) that would allow me to use my English / Japanese skills. I am a U.S. citizen and I got the JLPT1 back in 2005 and I am going to be graduating in June of this year. Unfortunately my major is pretty useless (Asian Studies) and my GPA is only around a 3.0. My experience in translation work is fairly limited as I have only worked with an online company who sends me jobs via e-mail.

I have been considering applying for the JET program as a CIR or applying for some of the various other English schools, but I am worried about how placement will work and would preferably like to move to Japan before next Spring which is when most of these places seem to do their hiring. I go to Japan (Osaka) around three times a year for about for about 3 weeks to 1 month at a time so I would have no problem looking for work within Japan on a tourist visa.

Does anyone have any advice on where and how I should be looking for work at places that will sponsor a visa preferably in the Kinki region? My downfall is that my only "sellable" skills are my language ability and limited translation work. I have a girlfriend of 5 years who lives in Osaka and our plan is to eventually get married (the reason why I want to work in the Kinki region), but without a steady job marriage isn't really an option which also means a spousal visa is not a possibility. Would it be my best bet to just wait and apply for a language school from or for the JET program's 2009 positions, or does anyone have any advice for looking for work within or from outside of Japan? I have browsed the various websites with job listings for foreigners, but most of them are either for technical positions or require that I already have an eligible visa.

If anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it!

[ttjereth]

I too am looking for work in Japan (in Osaka or the Kinki region) that would allow me to use my English / Japanese skills. I am a U.S. citizen and I got the JLPT1 back in 2005 and I am going to be graduating in June of this year. Unfortunately my major is pretty useless (Asian Studies) and my GPA is only around a 3.0. My experience in translation work is fairly limited as I have only worked with an online company who sends me jobs via e-mail.

I have been considering applying for the JET program as a CIR or applying for some of the various other English schools, but I am worried about how placement will work and would preferably like to move to Japan before next Spring which is when most of these places seem to do their hiring. I go to Japan (Osaka) around three times a year for about for about 3 weeks to 1 month at a time so I would have no problem looking for work within Japan on a tourist visa.

Does anyone have any advice on where and how I should be looking for work at places that will sponsor a visa preferably in the Kinki region? My downfall is that my only "sellable" skills are my language ability and limited translation work. I have a girlfriend of 5 years who lives in Osaka and our plan is to eventually get married (the reason why I want to work in the Kinki region), but without a steady job marriage isn't really an option which also means a spousal visa is not a possibility. Would it be my best bet to just wait and apply for a language school from or for the JET program's 2009 positions, or does anyone have any advice for looking for work within or from outside of Japan? I have browsed the various websites with job listings for foreigners, but most of them are either for technical positions or require that I already have an eligible visa.

If anyone has any advice I would greatly appreciate it!

The JET CIR positions are a great way to make decent new graduate money while figuring out what you want to do next.

The problem is that CIR positions are relatively few and far between, so you have even less choice of where you end up than if you are an ALT (and you don't generally get very close to your choices even then).

The other problem is that of late a lot of the JET CIR positions have been turned into nothing more than a Japanese speaking English teacher job by some of the host institutions, but still not a terrible way to spend a few years if you're not sure what you want to do.

[kamome]

A CIR position will get you some Japanese government/bureucratic contacts but if you have a weakness in your skill set, your best bet is to find a position in the US that will give you an opportunity to develop a set of skills. Your circumstances are special because you have someone there you want to marry, but I would still try to work in the US to give you some experience before settling in Japan. If you don't have any other skills beyond Japanese fluency it will be hard to avoid getting pigeonholed as the gaijin translator.

[teru]

I'm perfectly fine with getting pigeonholed as a "gaijin translator". I'm not a very ambitious guy like some of you who work in finance, law, and other prestigious positions. As long as I can make enough to get by, I am happy.

Any suggestions on places to look for work, or should I just try and apply for the CIR position and perhaps some of the English schools? Last year I tried stopping by a place called 大阪外国人雇用サービスセンター, but they said they couldn't really help me unless I already had an eligible visa. Of course ハローワーク does not offer support for non-visa holding foreigners either.

On another note, is the process of sponsoring a foreigner for a work visa a really difficult process? Is it costly? Does anyone have any good websites (preferably in Japanese) that detail the process that an employer would have to go through to sponsor a foreigner for a work visa?

Thanks again for all of the help!

[FG Lurker]

Any suggestions on places to look for work, or should I just try and apply for the CIR position and perhaps some of the English schools?

I don't know a lot about the translation business. That said, the translators I have met tend to be freelancers, not working for a company that provides sponsorship.

Given your lack of specific marketable skills the best way for you to get to Osaka on a working visa immediately is via an English school like ECC. The CIR position would be a better job (and could expose you to Japanese you wouldn't normally use) but the chances are high that you will end up in the sticks somewhere, perhaps not at all near Osaka.


On a different topic... You're a student right now, and I guess your girlfriend is too? The relationship is long distance? I don't know your relationship or the history, but big life-changing events (moving from Uni to work, moving overseas, relationship changing from long-distance to "normal"...) are very hard on a lot of relationships. A lot of couples don't make it through just one of those things, far less all three of them at the same time! I'm not saying that you guys are going to self-destruct as soon as you move to Japan, but in the least there are likely to be some rough times during the transition. Just something to keep in mind.


If you're back in Osaka sometime and would like to have a beer, drop me a PM.

[teru]

Our relationship should be fine. We have been together for over 5 years now and we've been through normal to long-distance to semi-long-distance to normal to long-distance multiple times and everything has been okay. I've made sure to keep communication strong through Skype, messenger services, international phone calls and cell phone e-mails.

I'd definitely be interested in taking you up on that beer offer! I'll probably be in Japan next in March or May.

[Greji]

If you're back in Osaka sometime and would like to have a beer

Lurk, if that means you're buying, I'm on my way to the Shinkansen counter!

[FG Lurker]

Our relationship should be fine.

Not saying that it won't be... Just that there are likely to be some bumps along the way. Forewarned is forearmed, after all. ]I'd definitely be interested in taking you up on that beer offer! I'll probably be in Japan next in March or May.[/QUOTE]
Let me know when you'll be here and we'll set something up.

[FG Lurker]

Lurk, if that means you're buying, I'm on my way to the Shinkansen counter!

Hopefully by March or May (when teru is coming) the US$ will have recovered a bit... I'm dieing with the rates the way they are!!

We never did have that beer though. Do you still get down here sometimes? I have no problem holding up my end of the bill but I'm not payin the entire tab for some guy and his alcoholic goat!

[Greji]

but I'm not payin the entire tab for some guy and his alcoholic goat!

Ahh, I don't drink that much, but the goat's a lush. I tried to get Gomi and GomiGuy to spring for a pint last night, but they're tighter with the dust than GuyJean. Shoganai....But, we will have to do it one of these times when I'm in Kansai, or if you get up to Tokyo where the elite meet!

[kamome]

I'm perfectly fine with getting pigeonholed as a "gaijin translator". I'm not a very ambitious guy like some of you who work in finance, law, and other prestigious positions. As long as I can make enough to get by, I am happy.

There's prestige in translation, too. I was always impressed by people who could take a dense block of high level Japanese text and turn it into really good English. My point is that once you start down a Japan path and have no other skills to fall back on, you can be stuck in a rut. It becomes harder to switch jobs later on in life.

[ttjereth]

I don't know a lot about the translation business. That said, the translators I have met tend to be freelancers, not working for a company that provides sponsorship.

Given your lack of specific marketable skills the best way for you to get to Osaka on a working visa immediately is via an English school like ECC. The CIR position would be a better job (and could expose you to Japanese you wouldn't normally use) but the chances are high that you will end up in the sticks somewhere, perhaps not at all near Osaka.


On a different topic... You're a student right now, and I guess your girlfriend is too? The relationship is long distance? I don't know your relationship or the history, but big life-changing events (moving from Uni to work, moving overseas, relationship changing from long-distance to "normal"...) are very hard on a lot of relationships. A lot of couples don't make it through just one of those things, far less all three of them at the same time! I'm not saying that you guys are going to self-destruct as soon as you move to Japan, but in the least there are likely to be some rough times during the transition. Just something to keep in mind.


If you're back in Osaka sometime and would like to have a beer, drop me a PM.

Definitely good advice about the relationship. If the relationship is good and strong, then it really should be a huge problem if he ends up somewhere out in the sticks as a CIR and that would be (in my opinion) a much better choice overall (better money, better living situation, better contacts for possible future use, and looks a hell of a lot better on a resume than "eikaiwa teacher").

As for the translator thing, speaking as a translator, I know he could find a company that would sponsor his visa and have him work in-house, he could even find a few companies right in Osaka, but he'd be working for slave wages and worked like a dog, just like the Japanese translation agency employees.

Working in-house at a translation agency for a year or so to learn the ropes and get a grip on how business is conducted, isn't a terrible idea, but he'd literally be earning less than at some eikaiwas (somewhere between 20 and 24 man a month is normal), and tons and tons of unpaid overtime is the norm since there is always something due the next day (at one of the places I worked they had fold out beds in the office because it was so common to have to spend the night to meet deadlines).

As a freelancer he'd make easily 2-3 times what he'd make working in-house at an agency (even as a freelancer working through agencies rather than with direct clients), but he'd have to figure out a way to get a visa (self-sponsoring is difficult since he'd just be arriving and freelance translation doesn't provide a "steady" income stream, he might make only 3man one month and make 100 man the next).

On top of all that, translation, both in-house and freelance, can be very hard on a relationship when you are first starting out, because you have to work some long and weird hours to meet deadlines. When you are first starting you either take every job offered to you, no matter how short the deadline or ridiculous the demands, or you don't get any more offers. That can easily mean working 2 or 3 days with only 1 or 2 hour naps to keep you from passing out, or having to take on projects where client demands and other factors (poor quality faxed originals, creating a translation memory and glossary of terms as you go, exhaustively descriptive notes about places where the translation isn't word for word exactly what it is in the Japanese, etc.) can end up making it so that you are earning an hourly wage less than the high school kids working at your local McDonald's.

[ttjereth]

There's prestige in translation, too. I was always impressed by people who could take a dense block of high level Japanese text and turn it into really good English. My point is that once you start down a Japan path and have no other skills to fall back on, you can be stuck in a rut. It becomes harder to switch jobs later on in life.

Definitely true. Especially if you work as a freelancer. If you decide you want to switch jobs and dump all your clients, you can bet your ass you're never going to get work from those clients again if you change your mind, or fail to find anything adequate.