Advice? Alternatives to JET, extended stay in Japan

[samurabi]

I'm not sure that this is in the right forum for not and I don't mean to be a bother, but I've been looking around on these forums for a while and was looking for some advice.

I've looked through different forums and done some research but I'm having a difficult time finding what I'm looking for in terms of a way to get to Japan.

I guess I should provide some background here before going on...
So, I'm a 23 year old college graduate living in New York. I've been interested in Japan for quite a while, and am particularly interested in become fluent in Japanese.

My first degree was in Asian Studies, I completed all the Japanese courses available at my university in two years, and graduated early. After this I moved to New York to pursue my other interest, which is Art. I completed a two year program in Illustration at Pratt Institute and have been working for a year working part time as an administrative assistant, and doing freelance translation and illustration.

Now, within my life I've had two main goals/interest, one being Japanese. I've studied/been involved with the language and culture since I was in highschool. I recently passed the JLPT 2kyuu, I've volunteered as a conversation partner for varous foreigners in New York, made friends and contacts, I've been to Japan for small periods of time, most recently for the winter holiday/new years.

Japan is basically a part of who I am, and I want to develop this as much as I can. So, I've made efforts in the past, including applying to JET, twice. Once after college...I was rejected, no interview, no idea why, and once again this past year, which I was also rejected from...not even an interview. It boggles my mind as to why I wasn't able to get in...but that's another story.

In light of that, I decided to go for another route. As I mentioned I have two interests, my other is art. For the past 2-3 years I've been studying and involving myself in art/illustration. Needless to say, it's a very tough field to get into, but I've made small successes here and there.

Anyway, being rejected from JET, I decided to apply for graduate school at SVA. I did a lot of research, met with people, etc...this is the best program for me as far as I'm concerned.

...and I got a rejection letter today.

So, now it's back to Japan. I'm at a loss as to what opportunities there are for someone like me. It's not like I don't have any skills besides my ability to speak native English, so if possible I would rather go to Japan under the auspices of my talent, but there doesn't seem to be many resources outside of being an ALT or doing IT.

I'm more than willing to teach English...but outside of JET it seems like a wild west of sorts. There is no definitive answer as to what I can expect...outside of, I'm going to be screwed one way or another.

Anyway....this post is long enough. I just wanted to see if there was anyone else who had a similar dillema that can offer insight or advice.

There's more I can and would like to say, but I don't want to waste the space if my post is misguided or misdirected.

[kusai Jijii]

It sounds like you would be wasting yourself with JET. Dont feel bad about missing out, in many ways, JETs a fast track to nothing in Japan.
My advice is this: if you already have the languager skills, get something that complements them - some sort of qualification and/or experience in the 'buisness world' will fast track you to a much better job in Japan in the future. Besides you are only 23, so you have time on your side.
Good luck with things.
KJ

[samurabi]

Thanks for the reply and advice kusai jijii.
I've been told that JET would be a waste of time, so I don't feel too dissapointed about it.

For the past year I've been trying to find some other job that would make use of my language qualifications, but it seems like I'm out of the loop sometimes. Part of my interest in going to Japan is to get my language skills up to snuff. I can read and understand well, but having no real immersion in Japan I feel that my actual speaking skills are katakoto at best. I've gotten some calls for Japanese recruiting agencies and the like, but nothing has really come through.

Something like JET isn't so much a path towards a career as much as a way to have first hand experience in Japan, develop confidence in my skills, and make contacts.

My career track is in the art field, specifically illustration which doesn't bode well for foreigners unless you are already established. I'm not really sure what kind of qualifications I can get that would help me with that.

Anyway, I know I'm still young, but I feel I have to get things settled. I have expensive New York city rent, loans to pay, a girlfriend who's father is ill and can't return to america until things settle down (this is pretty important factor in my impatience).

Again, though, thanks for the advice, I'll continue to look into what I can do to further my career and make it to Japan.

[Takechanpoo]

Japan is basically a part of who I am, and I want to develop this as much as I can. So, I've made efforts in the past, including applying to JET, twice. Once after college...I was rejected, no interview, no idea why, and once again this past year, which I was also rejected from...not even an interview. It boggles my mind as to why I wasn't able to get in...but that's another story.

In light of that, I decided to go for another route. As I mentioned I have two interests, my other is art. For the past 2-3 years I've been studying and involving myself in art/illustration. Needless to say, it's a very tough field to get into, but I've made small successes here and there.

Anyway, being rejected from JET, I decided to apply for graduate school at SVA. I did a lot of research, met with people, etc...this is the best program for me as far as I'm concerned.

...and I got a rejection letter today.

Hey Samurabi, you are black?
If you so, I recommend you to consult with this black boy.
You will "understand" the reason you rejected from JET twice.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Listen to Kusai Jiji. Don't waste your time teaching English in Japan. It sounds like you're already doing a lot better with the language than most gaijin who live and work in Tokyo anyway. You'll do much better getting at least several years of work experience in the US first and developing some marketable skills and experience. Take it from a guy who did JET for three years and ended up struggling for year to get a decent job after that because he had the skills of a fresh college grad and what basically ammounted to three years of nothing on his resume after college. --Of course returning to the US to look for work right after the bursting of the .com bubble and a month before 9-11 didn't help much either.--

Also, at the age of 23 you shouldn't be making major life decisions based on being closer to your girlfriend ... period.

One more thing is you'll probably want to live in the Tokyo area given your job interests. That's not exactly the best place to come to escape NYC's high rents.

[ttjereth]

It sounds like you would be wasting yourself with JET. Dont feel bad about missing out, in many ways, JETs a fast track to nothing in Japan.
My advice is this: if you already have the languager skills, get something that complements them - some sort of qualification and/or experience in the 'buisness world' will fast track you to a much better job in Japan in the future. Besides you are only 23, so you have time on your side.
Good luck with things.
KJ

You know, this seems to be a pretty common sentiment here, but I'm not sure why. The vast majority of JETs do their time and go home, but most of the JETs who are determined to stay in Japan that I've known of end up fairly successful. The worst case scenarios I've seen are those that just end up teaching eikaiwa for the rest of their lives, but their are plenty of people on here not involved in JET who do that anyway?

Why the negative opinion on JET? Do you have any actual examples of people who ended up on a "fast track to nothing in Japan"?

I was a CIR (Not an ALT, but since this guy speaks Japanese I assume and hope he was applying as a CIR) and since leaving JET I've done alright by myself, in fact I'm fairly certain I make a significantly larger amount of money than several of the people on here who always like to point out how jet is a "fast track to nothing in Japan" (I'm not trying to start shit here, just pointing out why this belief doesn't make sense to me). I've worked at Morgan Stanley, Sony, Hitachi, etc.

On top of that I ended up having connections and being able to get recommendations from 3 mayors and the former governor of Tochigi (Fukuda). Ended up with tons of connections through people I knew from JET (whether other JETs or Japanese) that led to jobs and other opportunities, there's the JET Alumni Association, which has some pretty damn attractive job offerings once in awhile and then there's the JETs who end up working for the government or Monbukagakusho. Everyone likes to questions the qualifications/credentials of the latter bunch, but the fact of the matter is, if they are as incompetent as everyone seems to believe, I think that speaks even more highly for the potential opportunities provided by JET because "even these dumbasses can geta high paying, secure government job".

The guy who had my JET position before me is currently upper management at a major financial company in Tokyo and makes about 6 times my yearly salary. The guy two towns over from me runs his own chain of eikaiwa schools. A girl I knew from university has her own accredited Japanese kindergarten. Another guy from uni is a regular on Japanese TV. Another friend has a fairly high paying position at the Japanese embassy in Australia since returning home from JET.

All ex JETS (some CIR, some ALTs). So what exactly is it that you all find such a waste about JET? It is definitely not the best choice for those who want to do their time on JET and then return straight home, but for people who plan on staying in Japan, I honestly can't see the problem.

[kusai Jijii]

Why the negative opinion on JET? Do you have any actual examples of people who ended up on a "fast track to nothing in Japan"?

.

Hi TT,
I respect your opinion.

I have spent about 13 years in Japan, 18 months of which were on JET. I'll happily agree with you that each case is different.

In my case, I'd already spent about 2.5 years in Japan, and gone back to grad school in Australia to study education to become a high school teacher. I taught Japanese in Oz for about 3 years after that. Then, my wife and I decided to return to Japan, and in that respect, JET seemed like a 'secure' way to relocate back to Japan. One of the reasons I thought JET would be good for me was to gain more high school teaching experience in other settings outside Australia. What happened however, was that I sat sometimes for weeks on end without doing anything - not a single class! Some people might find that fine, but I hated it.

To combat the bordom, I completed a masters while on JET, doing most of the work for it AT SCHOOL! So in that sense it was ok - like a scholarship in a way. But I gained no skills directly through JET, and ended up leaving halfway through my second contract out of pure frustration.

I then worked in a much better secondary school, and then again moved into the uni system. In some respects, things have improved a great deal, and I am payed well to do very little. But in truth, many of the same problems exist. I do not have tenure, and have moved from contract position to contract position. I dont have a 'real job'.

In an effort to rectify this, I have published quite a bit, and am in the final stages of completing my PhD. Starting the doctorate 5 years ago seemed like a good idea at the time, but again, in truth, I now have my doubts about how much value it will be to me in todays job market.

The way the job market is for uni jobs in Japan, Im starting to feel that with my PhD, I'll now be nothing more than a hoplessly overqualified Engrish teacher. The fact of the matter is, with four uni degrees, all I have ever done is teach, and I doubt many employers in the private sector would even look at me for an interview.

Honestly speaking, I love living in Japan, and the life I have built for myself and my family over the last decade has been wonderful. But I do not derive my satisfaction from my job, and I have to admit, that over the years I have made some fucking stupid decisions regarding my career trajectory. I have snookered myself.

In retrospect, I wish I had done what I now advise others in on this forum to do - GET USEFUL EXPERIENCE & QUALIFICATIONS outside Japan if you intend on staying here for the long haul. In my opinion, it sets you up better in the end. I am now considering my options - which may include going home for 2 years or so to get that experience and qualifications to complement my language skills that I wish I had brought with me in the first place.

Anyway, thats just my opinion.

KJ.

[ttjereth]

Hi TT,
I respect your opinion.

I have spent about 13 years in Japan, 18 months of which were on JET. I'll happily agree with you that each case is different.

In my case, I'd already spent about 2.5 years in Japan, and gone back to grad school in Australia to study education to become a high school teacher. I taught Japanese in Oz for about 3 years after that. Then, my wife and I decided to return to Japan, and in that respect, JET seemed like a 'secure' way to relocate back to Japan. One of the reasons I thought JET would be good for me was to gain more high school teaching experience in other settings outside Australia. What happened however, was that I sat sometimes for weeks on end without doing anything - not a single class! Some people might find that fine, but I hated it.

To combat the bordom, I completed a masters while on JET, doing most of the work for it AT SCHOOL! So in that sense it was ok - like a scholarship in a way. But I gained no skills directly through JET, and ended up leaving halfway through my second contract out of pure frustration.

I then worked in a much better secondary school, and then again moved into the uni system. In some respects, things have improved a great deal, and I am payed well to do very little. But in truth, many of the same problems exist. I do not have tenure, and have moved from contract position to contract position. I dont have a 'real job'.

In an effort to rectify this, I have published quite a bit, and am in the final stages of completing my PhD. Starting the doctorate 5 years ago seemed like a good idea at the time, but again, in truth, I now have my doubts about how much value it will be to me in todays job market.

The way the job market is for uni jobs in Japan, Im starting to feel that with my PhD, I'll now be nothing more than a hoplessly overqualified Engrish teacher. The fact of the matter is, with four uni degrees, all I have ever done is teach, and I doubt many employers in the private sector would even look at me for an interview.

Honestly speaking, I love living in Japan, and the life I have built for myself and my family over the last decade has been wonderful. But I do not derive my satisfaction from my job, and I have to admit, that over the years I have made some fucking stupid decisions regarding my career trajectory. I have snookered myself.

In retrospect, I wish I had done what I now advise others in on this forum to do - GET USEFUL EXPERIENCE & QUALIFICATIONS outside Japan if you intend on staying here for the long haul. In my opinion, it sets you up better in the end. I am now considering my options - which may include going home for 2 years or so to get that experience and qualifications to complement my language skills that I wish I had brought with me in the first place.

Anyway, thats just my opinion.

KJ.

I'm not speaking to experience on the job for the most part. If you're an ALT the odds are pretty good that you aren't going to get any experience other than teaching English, and I've known several ALTs who had to sit in the BOE all summer with no classes to teach and such (it was a lot of fun for me, who was doing unpaid overtime as a JET CIR listening to them about how bored they were, while I was working my ass, needless to say my sympathy was in short supply). However, I've also known plenty of ALTs who made use of that time (whether learning Japanese, or doing other studies like yourself, even writing books and a variety of other things).

As a CIR you will get some more useful experience (and stuff that looks good on a resume, translating, interpreting, oragnizing events, managing sister city relationships, etc., I even got personnel management from babysitting the local ALTs ]1. Don't buy into the program bullshit. The job will most likely not be the most exciting and enjoyable experience of your life and you will probably spend a decent chunk of your work time in a drab Japanese office. Don't worry about what is good for the program etc. Worry about yourself. If you end up with a great opportunity for another job part way through the program, bail. If they insist you spend your 40 hours a week during the summer coming up with lesson plans, use that time for something more constructive like studying. Put yourself and your own development/future above any other JET related concerns.

2. Don't expect to get or be surprised when you don't get any job experience/new skills other than what you can surmise you will get from JET. If you want to come on JET, then just go home and get a "real" job in a "real" industry that is completely unrelated to what you will be doing on JET, than you're better off not bothering.

Experience teaching English doesn't generally parly off into other jobs (CIR experience tends to be much better looking on a resume, but can still be extremely limited in its applicability to other fields). Any experience you want for anything other than your JET work, you will have to work for, but at the very least you should be able to build a decent Japanese language ability, and at best you will moonlight doing other things like finishing up a masters/phd, or even working as an unpaid trainee on weekends evenings (I know several people who did this, tough if you are out in one of the boondock places that really has absolutely nothing nearby though).

3. Don't aim for a career teaching English/tesl. It's an overcrowded, shrinking market which generally has no upward mobility and no security. The bubble for the eikaiwa market is bust. I'm not trying to rag on you KJ, or any of the other English teachers here, but I figure it's probably best to get out while the getting is good. Even working at university level is getting more and more difficult for qualified people because there is a lack a positions and the shrinking student population isn't going to make that any better.
[/INDENT]I've heard plenty of stories about ex-JETs having problems finding work back home after JET, but for those who want to stay in Japan, it's not that bad. In fact, I've known plenty of places in Japan that put more emphasis on Japanese language ability and experience working in a Japanese office than on experience performing the actual work required by the company, because a lot of the places will require in-house training anyway (this is obviously for less specialized jobs, you aren't going to get, say, an engineering job with no applicable experience).


If you can get a job back home doing what you want to do, getting the experience you need, then sure, take it. You are almost always gonna end up in a better situation if you work for a foreign company and come over on the "package", but generally speaking, the amount and types of jobs where that is possible are terribly limited. Jobs for foreigners in Japan in general tend to be in a handful of limited fields only anyway, and if you want to get a job with a Japanese company in Japan, being here and having worked here, even on JET, can be a huge factor in getting the job. Overseas hires (especially cold hires) tend to be extraordinarily rare in my experience. Maybe if you have some extraordinarily rare skillset/experience, but I don't think too many of us fall into that category, but otherwise odds are if you want a job in Japan with a Japanese company you need to get your ass over here first.

If you want to come to Japan for reasons unrelated to your career (I think most of the foreigners in Japan fall into this category) anyway, than I really don't think JET is going to ruin your life.

As for the original poster's having been turned down twice, I know from the time when I was on JET at least, that it was rumored that certain types of people just didn't get accepted. Specifically in this case, art majors, rather than race as insinuated by dipshit above. I never knew a single person on JET who had any sort of art (not liberal arts mind you, but performing\creative arts) degree, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that art majors were turned down automatically.

The above is all a bit rambling/incoherent, but I'm going on 48 hours with no sleep staring at industrial air conditioning manuals. I'll try to make more sense/form proper sentences when I actually awake again.

[Baka Chan]

Hey Samurabi, you are black?
If you so, I recommend you to consult with this black boy.
You will "understand" the reason you rejected from JET twice.

There you go bringing race into it!
LOL "this black boy" was a complete waste of 30 minutes on my day off:biggrin2:

[Kanchou]

If you speak Japanese, go for the CIR position.

By my calculations, at least 12% more CIR applicants get interviews than ALT applicants do (30% of ALTs versus 45% of CIRs).

And there are far fewer applicants to the CIR, so I think there's probably far less market saturation.

[samurabi]

I guess it's not a real thread unless it's trolled by Takechanpoo...

kanchou> I didn't apply for a CIR position before because I thought my skills weren't up to snuff, but I think I should at least give it a try, it definitely seems more suited to my talents than an ALT.

ttjereth> Thanks for the advice and insight, the art thing seems to make sense.

Actually, when it comes to getting to Japan, being an ALT would be unrelated to my career, and I understand the ups and downs of doing so. I think that for me, that it's more along the lines of gaining some time to develop myself, make connections, and save money...(I know Japan is expensive, but I can save somewhat more money in Japan than I can in my current situation)

Being 23, I know I have time on my side for a lot of things and I don't have to be in a rush, but in a way I would like to build my career, and even my viewpoint as an artist from my involvement with Japan. So I would rather get some experience, even if it's not directly related to my future career.

Of course if there is something that is closely related to my career choice here or in Japan I would by all means pursue that...but my profession outside of the administrative work I do part time, is an Illustrator. Most, if not all Illustrators are freelance, and I've been told to get anywhere it takes on average about 2 years from graduation to get the ball rolling. I was hoping to develop myself more through grad school, but since that fell through, and I've had no freelance work (unrelated, but I was an Illustrator for a magazine after graduation and that person got fired, the new person decided to go with photos and in-house graphic designers)

Anyway, I actually applied for Interac, despite the bad and strange things I've heard about them...they might not even give me a call, but I'll just apply for what I can and keep my eyes open for whatever opportunities pass my way.

[ttjereth]

If you speak Japanese, go for the CIR position.

By my calculations, at least 12% more CIR applicants get interviews than ALT applicants do (30% of ALTs versus 45% of CIRs).

And there are far fewer applicants to the CIR, so I think there's probably far less market saturation.

There are also far fewer CIR positions, less than 1/10th:
CIR 431
ALT 5057

But there is a better chance of getting in as a CIR despite say one of the interviewers not liking your haircut or something.

However again, unfortunately, and although I didn't question every single one of the 400 of so CIRs there were when I was one, I didn't know a single CIR with any sort of creative/performing arts background...


And now it's time for bed, whee a whole 6 hours... You sure you want to work in Japan? :P

[Charles]

There's always grad school. Sometimes it's easier to get subsidized overseas study arrangements as a grad student, if they think you have fairly specific goals that meet their program.

[Kanchou]

There are also far fewer CIR positions, less than 1/10th:
CIR 431
ALT 5057

But there is a better chance of getting in as a CIR despite say one of the interviewers not liking your haircut or something.

However again, unfortunately, and although I didn't question every single one of the 400 of so CIRs there were when I was one, I didn't know a single CIR with any sort of creative/performing arts background...


And now it's time for bed, whee a whole 6 hours... You sure you want to work in Japan? :P

Yah, but there's over 7000 applications each year and only a couple hundred of them are CIRs...

A relatively smaller number of those positions are actually open, of course... but I imagine it's somewhat higher for CIRs than ALTs.

[ttjereth]

Yah, but there's over 7000 applications each year and only a couple hundred of them are CIRs...

A relatively smaller number of those positions are actually open, of course... but I imagine it's somewhat higher for CIRs than ALTs.

More than likely. There are less people out there actually qualified for a CIR application, and then there are those who are qualified but don't think they are and end up applying as an ALT (or not applying at all), so I'd imagine it's overall less competitive assuming they don't just turn down unqualified or less qualified applicants rather than accepting applicants and scraping the bottom of the barrel until their quota is filled.

From some of the other CIRs I've known, I'd have to say they weren't that strick in their selections (hell, I got in and I thought my interview went poorly)

[kamome]

Japan is basically a part of who I am, and I want to develop this as much as I can. So, I've made efforts in the past, including applying to JET, twice. Once after college...I was rejected, no interview, no idea why, and once again this past year, which I was also rejected from...not even an interview. It boggles my mind as to why I wasn't able to get in...but that's another story.

What were you putting on the JET application? I recall that there was a writing sample, which was intended to gauge how well you can write and to get an insight into what kind of person you are. Sometimes small things like typos or grammatical problems can turn off a reviewer. The content can also turn off a reviewer depending on what is written. Do you think it was something to do with your writing sample?

[akatsuka]

if you've got a degree and a good portfolio, why not just go out to japan on a tourist visa and try meeting people in the same field (art) as you? If you want to be an artist in japan (or anywhere) its all about contacts. if you dont go there itll be hard to meet people. Even if you come home after the 3 months empty handed, i'm sure you'll have a better understanding of things and what you need to do in order to get a job.

[Kanchou]

What were you putting on the JET application? I recall that there was a writing sample, which was intended to gauge how well you can write and to get an insight into what kind of person you are. Sometimes small things like typos or grammatical problems can turn off a reviewer. The content can also turn off a reviewer depending on what is written. Do you think it was something to do with your writing sample?

Not to mention they have to review 7000 applications for about ~1000 actual open positions.

The numbers are stacked against you, and the whole process seems to be a crapshoot, so someone who got an interview and then passed it is not necessarily a better candidate than you... just luckier.

My application was pretty damn good and I didn't get an interview.

[Baka Chan]

if you've got a degree and a good portfolio, why not just go out to japan on a tourist visa and try meeting people in the same field (art) as you? If you want to be an artist in japan (or anywhere) its all about contacts. if you dont go there itll be hard to meet people. Even if you come home after the 3 months empty handed, i'm sure you'll have a better understanding of things and what you need to do in order to get a job.

I agree with this one. While you're that age (and still single), you should go for your real passion. You only live once (until 30something)!!
If it doesn't happen professionally with art, teaching will always be available. All jokes aside, maybe you should look at this as in a positive way (a sign (印) getting turned down for this program...

[ttjereth]

Not to mention they have to review 7000 applications for about ~1000 actual open positions.

The numbers are stacked against you, and the whole process seems to be a crapshoot, so someone who got an interview and then passed it is not necessarily a better candidate than you... just luckier.

My application was pretty damn good and I didn't get an interview.

I'm not trying to troll or anything here but:

I read somewhere a few years back, and know from discussions with some of the JETs who went on to administrative positions with JET that there has been an increasing trend for JET to accept more Australians and Kiwis over other places recently, because there is a tendency for there to be less problems with them. One of the "theories" put forth for this is that whereas JET is decent money for say an American right out of college, it's a hell of a lot more attractive (or was anyway) to people whose home country has a lower valued currency (one of my Australian friends socked away a ton of money on JET and then went home and bought a house...).

If anyone's interested, at the time (7+ years ago I think was the last time I knew someone who still worked there) the most troublesome group/nationality on JET was the Brits (England, Scotland Wales, not including Ireland). They had the highest number of people who either quit JET, got fired from JET and sent home, and/or got arrested.

I actually knew (through a friend) a British guy on JET who got arrested because he "broke into the rooms on the second floor (from the outside windows mind) of a coffee shop naked while he was vacationing in Okinawa". He got sent home.

[ttjereth]

[ttjereth]

Not to mention they have to review 7000 applications for about ~1000 actual open positions.

The numbers are stacked against you, and the whole process seems to be a crapshoot, so someone who got an interview and then passed it is not necessarily a better candidate than you... just luckier.

My application was pretty damn good and I didn't get an interview.

It's more than 1000 open positions, the vast majority of ALTs only stay for a single year.

There are a lot of factors involved in getting an interview and then getting through an interview and better than half of them are unpredictable bullshit. I know when I applied there were huge differences between what was expected of applicants at the different interview locations as well. New York (where I interviewed) was supposed to be the easiest in the U.S., whereas California was more difficult (because it had a higher number of applicants and because a greater number of those applicants could speak Japanese).

[samurabi]

What were you putting on the JET application? I recall that there was a writing sample, which was intended to gauge how well you can write and to get an insight into what kind of person you are. Sometimes small things like typos or grammatical problems can turn off a reviewer. The content can also turn off a reviewer depending on what is written. Do you think it was something to do with your writing sample?

It's possible. The first time around I have no idea what I wrote, but for this past one I wrote about my interest in Japan and something to the effect of, how artistic thinking and visual learning are beneficial in teaching foreign language.

If what ttjereth was saying is true, then i basically dug my own grave with that.

[samurabi]

It's more than 1000 open positions, the vast majority of ALTs only stay for a single year.

There are a lot of factors involved in getting an interview and then getting through an interview and better than half of them are unpredictable bullshit. I know when I applied there were huge differences between what was expected of applicants at the different interview locations as well. New York (where I interviewed) was supposed to be the easiest in the U.S., whereas California was more difficult (because it had a higher number of applicants and because a greater number of those applicants could speak Japanese).

Slightly OT, but I heard about the different interview locations being easier than others. I'm originally from Miami, and went to Florida State University. One of my friends who got into JET had told me that Miami was the easier of the choices for the south, between Atlanta and Miami. Possibly because Miami has much less people interested in Japan/Japanese speaking people in comparison to Atlanta.

[Baka Chan]

[quote="ttjereth"]Sure, he can just get an Artist visa... oh, wait a second... ]

Uuuh, I was talking 3 months on your USA passport...since he got turned down for teaching But in the case of office work, he could apply for foreign service officer since he is educated and speaks a 2nd language. No doubt, there are a 100 ways to get there....

[ttjereth]

[quote="Baka Chan"]Uuuh, I was talking 3 months on your USA passport...since he got turned down for teaching ]

1. FSO's don't choose their own posting.

2. Getting an FSO position is infinitely more difficult than getting a JET position

[Baka Chan]

[quote="ttjereth"]1. FSO's don't choose their own posting.

2. Getting an FSO position is infinitely more difficult than getting a JET position ]


1. FSO's don't choose their own posting. - No sh**, but opportunity and experience, as well as a chance to make some good money...
2. Getting an FSO position is infinitely more difficult than getting a JET position- Hard, but not impossible, and they are hiring. This is not the only Federal job that can get u into Japan...

I realize you are a JET representative or whatever, but I'm not here to argue which way is better or talk the guy out of doing JET. These are alternative options... Merely advise. Speaking as an artist, it seems like he really wants to be an artist, not a teacher. But, if "teaching" English is the best way you see to get to Japan, so be it. I'm sure that's just what Japan needs, more English "teachers" who are there just to get a pay check or stay in Japan. If someone is going to be a teacher, be a real teacher. There is also the alternative of getting a student VISA by going to graduate school in Japan. I took a few classes at Temple University, Minato-Ku, Tokyo ---Ohhh!

But hey, he did ask for "...alternatives to JET" this is ultimately his decision.

[Kanchou]

It's more than 1000 open positions, the vast majority of ALTs only stay for a single year.

There are a lot of factors involved in getting an interview and then getting through an interview and better than half of them are unpredictable bullshit. I know when I applied there were huge differences between what was expected of applicants at the different interview locations as well. New York (where I interviewed) was supposed to be the easiest in the U.S., whereas California was more difficult (because it had a higher number of applicants and because a greater number of those applicants could speak Japanese).

I think it might have been 7000 applicants just for the US.

And I think if even half of the participants decide to stay for another year, 5000 positions have just become 2500.

And then you consider that a good chunk of these are taken by non-US jets (although the US is the largest chunk), you have probably somewhere around 1000 positions for the 7000 US applicants.

[ttjereth]

1. FSO's don't choose their own posting. - No sh**, but opportunity and experience, as well as a chance to make some good money...

As an FSO he could end up practically anywhere on the planet and still not get any experience that helps him whatsoever in coming to Japan. Being posted as an FSO in Zimbabwe for 3 years is not likely to help him get a job here.

[quote="Baka Chan"]
2. Getting an FSO position is infinitely more difficult than getting a JET position- Hard, but not impossible, and they are hiring. This is not the only Federal job that can get u into Japan...

I realize you are a JET representative or whatever, but I'm not here to argue which way is better or talk the guy out of doing JET. These are alternative options... Merely advise. Speaking as an artist, it seems like he really wants to be an artist, not a teacher. But, if "teaching" English is the best way you see to get to Japan, so be it. I'm sure that's just what Japan needs, more English "teachers" who are there just to get a pay check or stay in Japan. If someone is going to be a teacher, be a real teacher. There is also the alternative of getting a student VISA by going to graduate school in Japan. I took a few classes at Temple University, Minato-Ku, Tokyo ---Ohhh!

But hey, he did ask for "...alternatives to JET" this is ultimately his decision. ]

I'm not a "JET representative", try re-reading my posts and you could probably figure that out. I just didn't understand why so many people seem to think JET is such a dead end, when all the JETs I knew who stayed on in Japan ended up fairly sucessful.

The reason I said "Getting an FSO position is infinitely more difficult than getting a JET position" was not to say he'd better go with JET (an FSO position is obviously a better job, with better benefits etc.), but was me trying to be polite in saying that if he is being rejected from JET for something other than some BS arbitrary reason (i.e., not being rejected out of hand simply because he was an art major but because of poor writing skills, unsatisfactory schools records or something else that would tend to hurt his chances anywhere) than the odds of him getting an FSO position aren't very good. On top of which even if he does get one, he only has a vague chance of actually ending up in Japan.

I also don't read his posts as saying he is looking for alternatives to JET despite the thread title but rather him looking for a way to get to Japan, specifically because of comments like "I'm more than willing to teach English...but outside of JET it seems like a wild west of sorts. There is no definitive answer as to what I can expect...outside of, I'm going to be screwed one way or another."

I definitely do not see being an English teacher as the best way to get to Japan, but if he is going to come over as an English teacher anyway, he'd be better off doing it in a relatively stable situation like JET, than the total crap shoot that most eikaiwa companies are.

If he wants to come over on JET, I'd suggest, as mentioned previously, he reapply as a CIR (assuming his language skills are up to snuff, the CIR interviews are carried out partially in Japanese and there is a test) and play down his art background as much as possible, if even mentioning it at all, and instead play up his office work experience, background in Asian studies and cram as much bullshit about wanting to "learn more about Japanese culture (which of course is the culture he was most interested in during his Asian studies, according to his essay anyway) and language while sharing his own culture and language". Even as an ALT I'd try to stay away from the art background as much as possible. Also get other people's opinions on the essay and any other materials accompanying the application.

I also understand he wants to be an artist, but he needs to decide which he wants more, that or coming to Japan. If he doesn't want to come to Japan if he can't be an artist here, then okay, but, and he should feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, I read his posts mostly as him just looking for a way to get here, and then trying to break into some sort of art field once he's here, which is probably for the best anyway in my opinion, since I've not often heard of anyone other than relatively established/well known artists getting here and getting by here on their art background alone, especially not illustrators who tend to be in tremendous supply in the native population here already anyway.

If his main interest is in just getting here, than eikaiwa or school (as a student) are definitely going to be the simplest methods available. Although for school he needs to have money. Money to pay for the schooling and at least temporarily for all the visa paperwork to prove he can support himself here (assuming that you still need to provide proof of funding when you get a student visa like you did way back when I first considered doing so) and then of course money to actually support himself since student visa's have restrictions on work. You took classes at Temple, but were you on a student visa? If so you are more qualified than me to point out the specifics of the student visas to him, I only know what I've read on the immigration website and obtained through other second hand sources. It's not generally something I keep tabs on.

[ttjereth]

I think it might have been 7000 applicants just for the US.

And I think if even half of the participants decide to stay for another year, 5000 positions have just become 2500.

And then you consider that a good chunk of these are taken by non-US jets (although the US is the largest chunk), you have probably somewhere around 1000 positions for the 7000 US applicants.

I looked around a bit but couldn't find official statistics on the number of applicants, but assuming your 7000 number is on the mark you're looking at an average of somewhere between 2500-3000 positions for the U.S. and again on average only about half of those go on to a second year on the program so somewhere between 1250 and 1500 ALT positions open per year for the U.S. so that's what, a bit better than a 1 in 7 chance?

So yeah, there is probably a good chance that it is easier to get a CIR position as long as he meets the requirements. I know way back when I was on the program some locations actually had to be put on waiting lists for CIRs because there weren't enough people to fill the positions.