Is age a problem for English teachers?

[elmyra42]

Hi, and before I get started, sorry for the newbie questions. This place seems to have a lot of helpful veteran gaijin, so I thought I'd give it a shot.

My gf and I have been considering spending some time in Tokyo as English teachers. We know several people who have spent time doing the temporary expat thing (though not in Japan), and want to try it ourselves while we still can. We're not looking to stay forever, just do maybe 2 years and come home. And yes, we've read the horror stories about teaching in Japan.

We both have degrees (BA in English/Tech Writing for me, MS in Urban Planning for her) and no worries regarding a career reset when we get back. We're Americans and native English speakers, and have a decent cash reserve. The thing is, we're both in the mid-late thirties range; we expect to be 36 and 37 years old if/when we go.

I've found a couple of sites about working in Japan that suggested people over 35 often experience age discrimination, especially when changing job fields. And so, my main question: is this really likely to be a problem for someone who just plans to teach English for a couple of years? It seems like it would contradict the prevailing attitude on this site that native English ability and a mostly functional brain stem are the only real qualifications to land a teaching job.

My other question is housing rather than job related: will it be more difficult than normal for a non-married couple to get an apartment in Japan? It's not a problem here in the US, of course, but I thought I should ask just in case.

Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who can provide information. I just wanted to make sure that these things won't cause us problems before we start planning more seriously.

[Frost]

Here is the best place to look to answer most..if not all your questions..

http://www.letsjapan.org/

[mr. sparkle]

i'm sure others will give you greater details. i just wanted to say--find a way to make it work. there are ways of doing what you want to, perhaps even capitalizing on your experience. you'll have extra firepower with an ESL degree, though. have you looked into that?

bottom line though, you can do it! and you've found the right forum to help you along.

ganbatte ne?

[Andocrates]

Positively inspiring Mr. Sparkle. I have found the Japanese are less age conscious then the average westerner.

Where else can you see middle aged guys wearing wigs and playing rock music, and are 100% serious.

But I have never taught english it wouldn't surpise me if there was a sterotype for english teachers.

[Taro Toporific]

We both have degrees (BA in English/Tech Writing for me, MS in Urban Planning for her) .

Forget English teaching.
IF you really have a BA in Tech Writing, EngRish teaching is not the right path if you already have a valid portfolio of work in tech writing. There's plenty of technical rewriting jobs here. On the other hand, an MA in "Urban Planning" in a county without any desire for planning is not directly applicable. However, if she can do standard public works/architectural liaison work, she could land a job in that field as other FG forum members have done with somewhat similar experience here.

If you're are looking for 1-2 year break from your carreers, teaching is a slack enough job here. I cannot imagine why you would want to torture yourselves to-start-all-over-from-square-one in Japan. You folks don't sound like the standard, unemployable FGs in their late 20s who fill the majority of English teaching jobs here, but hey it's your life. You can try a few interviews in the States for the big faux schools such as NOVA, Gaba, GEOS to gauge their reaction.

Finally, yes there is age discrimination: many/most job ads here SPECIFICALLY mention "under 35". More importantly there is appearance discrimination: schools like NOVA may not hire you in the States to work in Japan if you're overweight, under-haired, and waaaaay overage like me.*

*Even though I've got a linguistics MA and certification in ESL/ESL for secondary ed. and HS teaching experience no company would consider hiring me

[elmyra42]

Here is the best place to look to answer most..if not all your questions..

http://www.letsjapan.org/

I had gone there before, but wasn't impressed by what I read. I decided to slog throught the old posts in the forums on your advice, and I'm glad you suggested it. I found a similar question regarding the age issue; the bottom line seems to be that over-30s aren't a large percentage of teachers, but they can get work easily enough.

Apparently even JET has taken people in their late 30s (though that would put us out in the sticks, if we could even be assigned together). I kind of had the impression that while the limit was technically 40yo, they weren't likely to really go that high.

And to Mr. Sparkle, I'm looking into the ESL thing. Thanks for the encouragement!

I was unable to find an answer for the other question, though. So, does anyone know if getting housing is likely to be a problem for an unmarried couple? Japan seems to be pretty progressive on sex/relationship issues, but it seems prudent to ask.

And, of course, thanks to those who responded.

[elmyra42]

Taro -

I have fairly minimal experience and a thin portfolio, as I've only been degreed for a short time. Got laid off, went back to school to turn my AA into a BA, yada yada...I assumed that rewriting jobs would be unavailable for a person with nigh-zero Japanese ability anyway. I've nosed around the job sites, and the (very few) such jobs I've seen wanted near or full Japanese fluency. It'll be a good year until we're ready to go, so I'll have a bit more under my belt by then. I guess I'll look at that option a little harder when the time comes.

The gf has been a planner for 6 years, as a program planner for the local county gov't. Her experience is in long-range regional planning, which means she works on the countywide plan and writing local policies and such. She just finished some massive study of local wireless tower regulations. Exciting stuff! Of course, that won't likely help her get a planning job in Japan.

She says that she can easily walk away for a few years and jump right back in - some of her co-workers have said that they left the field for as long as 10 years, with no major impact upon return. She's not looking to move up the career ladder into more responsibility anyway.

We were really looking at this Japan thing as a change of pace - we're going a bit stir-crazy. It's like a mid-life crisis for two! You look at it as torture, we look at it as something new and interesting to do for a while. Granted, we may regret it, but it sounds like a good idea right now.

[Taro Toporific]

I was unable to find an answer for the other question, though. So, does anyone know if getting housing is likely to be a problem for an unmarried couple? Japan seems to be pretty progressive on sex/relationship issues, but it seems prudent to ask.

The overall issue is your being an alien FG, not your status as an unmarried couple. The standard rental agency listing still says thoughout Japan, "No pets, no pianos, no gaijin". For this reason, it's a hell of a lot easier to come to Japan on a JET or NOVA contract obtained in the States since housing is arranged or provided.

However, we all live somewhere (even Rob has own double-wide cardboard box with cheerful blue "vinyl" roof). Many if not most of the FG here on the forum have obtained housing on their own so whether you're married or unmarried it's possible---- although bringing a girl to Japan is like bringing coal to Newcastle.

See more on Japanese housing discrimation:
[url=http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:diw0rrUm4ZQJ:[url]www.japantoday.com/gidx/comment269.html+david+japan+%22housing+discrimination%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]Hostility[/url] in the Shibuya neighborhood[/url]
[url=http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:LJXRhbDFCAYJ:[url]www.japantoday.com/e/%3Fcontent%3Dbbs%26order%3Dmsg%26author%3DDavidGLong+david+japan+%22housing+discrimination%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8]Forum[/url] comment's on : Hostility in the Shibuya neighborhood[/url]
HOUSING DISCRIMINATION
It is an unfortunate fact that significant discrimination against non-Japanese nationals exists in the area of housing. At times, this discrimination can vary according to the nationality, race, job, or perceived status of the potential tenant, but the fact remains that there are still magazines today which advertise housing with special marks, such as "no pets," "no pianos," and, yes, "no gaijin." This is a significant issue because, unlike some other services, housing constitutes a fundamental human right under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. At present, there is no law in Japan banning such discrimination.--Jens Wilkinson (anzu@twics.com)
For example:
* SHIGA-KEN EXCLUSIONS OF FOREIGN TAXPAYERS FROM PREFECTURAL HOUSING CASE (1994-2002)

[elmyra42]

Yeah, I've read quite a few references to housing discrimination against foreigners, so I know to be prepared for it. I just remembered seeing something about landlords not wanting to rent to unmarried couples based on moral grounds. I've skimmed so many forums that I can't remember where it was, though. I guess it was just one person's experience. Thanks for the links, BTW. I knew that landlords often won't rent to gaijin, but I had no idea that whole neighborhoods/cities would organize against foreigners.

[Big Booger]

What would be nice is to have a defense fund for foreigners who are discriminated against so we can take these bastards to court and sue them for everything we can get.

Some like the AARP, ACLU etc... Maybe call itl Foreigners For Civil Liberties

FFCL, I like the ring of that.

[kamome]

It's interesting that you ask about housing discrimination against unmarried cohabitants in Japan. That's more of an issue in America than in Japan, because the Japanese, unlike fundamentalist Christians, don't attach a moral stigma to unmarried couples who live together. As Taro said, the main obstacle is that you are foreigners.

However, there are many real estate companies that know which landlords/properties are amenable to foreigners. Century 21 is in Japan, and they do a pretty good job (although they may not be able to find something in your price range). Ken Corporation also has a huge amount of listed properties for gaijin. Sorry, I don't have the weblinks, but a simple internet search for those two companies will get you there.

[AssKissinger]

Is anybody else kind of glad there's some discrimination in the rental industry? I know it can be problematic. But for me, the main problem was that the only buildings they would show us was already infested with Brazilians (in Aichi). Ideal for me is a company that will give me a 'pass' because I'm a white gaijin but won't allow other minorities. I think there are some companies like that, who play it case by case. Or my wife might be able to work around it using her maiden name. The reason why I don't want to live around other ethnic minorities is because a lot of the stereotypes about them are true. Shit, the Brazilians put 15 people in a 1DK stay up all night drinking and playing music keeping the whole building awake. Plus, they're way more likely than the Japanese to park in your space or break into your car or in just some way be a hassle. When looking for an apartment the first thing I check is that I'm the only FG. I love you guys, but I don't want to live around you. Can't blame the JPN for feeling the same way.

Signed, The Gaijin Bigot

[Gestalt]

Andorates said

I have found the Japanese are less age conscious then the average westerner.

Where else can you see middle aged guys wearing wigs and playing rock music, and are 100% serious.

I agree that Japanese guys are less age conscious, but that is more than made up for by Japanese women who in my experience are hyper-sensitive to age. Most are afraid of the day people stop calling them 'Onee-san' and they move into the 'Oba-san' phase of life..

[Gestalt]

double post..

[Taro Toporific]

I have fairly minimal experience and a thin portfolio, as I've only been degreed for a short time. Got laid off, went back to school to turn my AA into a BA, yada yada...I assumed that rewriting jobs would be unavailable for a person with nigh-zero Japanese ability anyway. I've nosed around the job sites, and the (very few) such jobs I've seen wanted near or full Japanese fluency.

Dang! I was gonna offer ya a job IF you had a THICK portfolio and some kind of funky-ass Japanese study in college.
Please note that most rewriting jobs massively overstate what they want. However, zero-Japanese and "thin portfolio" makes you a very difficult placement from my perspective of sending you out under a sub-contract to a client for a 1-year documentation project (IT, software, or telecom).

we look at [Japan] as something new and interesting to do for a while. Granted, we may regret it, but it sounds like a good idea right now.

Well, being out-of-country-hire with the JET program or the greedoids at NOVA Schools for 1-2 years will be fun lark. After that, you gonna be a sorry puppy like Rob Pongi to stay and enjoy "daily life as a "Misfit Gaijin."

[elmyra42]

Dang! I was gonna offer ya a job IF you had a THICK portfolio and some kind of funky-ass Japanese study in college.
Please note that most rewriting jobs massively overstate what they want. However, zero-Japanese and "thin portfolio" makes you a very difficult placement from my perspective of sending you out under a sub-contract to a client for a 1-year documentation project (IT, software, or telecom).

Heh, I wasn't counting on using those skills over there, but thanks anyway for the thought. I'm not worried about getting a real job since we're going to be relatively short-timers. My only real concern, beyond those that were answered here, is trying to hook up with a school that won't keep us more than ~40 hours per week. I've read that some of them are real slave drivers, and part of the point of going to Japan is to have free time to wander. Sadly, I suspect that those schools with stateside hiring are probably the worst offenders.

[Taro Toporific]

[...My only real concern, beyond those that were answered here, is trying to hook up with a school that won't keep us more than ~40 hours per week. I've read that some of them are real slave drivers, and part of the point of going to Japan is to have free time to wander. Sadly, I suspect that those schools with stateside hiring are probably the worst offenders.

Those "real slave drivers" is why the JET Program is your safest bet...you'll have plenty of free time in the out in boondocks.

[Taro Toporific]

LIFELINES

How old is too old to teach?

By ANGELA JEFFS

Too old?
Japanetimes.com / Nov 16
G. is a a 60-year-old native English speaking female who has earned a BS in Elementary Education and an Associate's Degree in Early Childhood Education.
She has taught at the pre-school level, elementary level, and most recently taught Child Development studies at Junior College level.
She is currently seeking a position teaching English to children in Japan, and is hoping to work here for a period of 1-3 years.
"My question is: Will my age be a problem for an employer, even though I am healthy, vigorous and highly motivated?"
....more...

[Skankster]

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I didnt read all the posts but did anybody say that discrimination of the over 35 is little or nil.

Well there are some schools that shoot for a different market segment (younger) but
on the other hand for that market segment they also prefer a stable sexually non-threatening (seemingly) guy.

so down one and up one = same chances as anybody else.