Getting PhD or Teaching English; Which is Better?

[mas]

I've been reading up on the board here for awhile, but can't find anything posted yet which seems appropriate to my situation. Here's my dillema:

I would like to move to Japan for my own various reasons (all of which no doubt involve unhealthy doses of naivete and poor planning). The way I reckon, this can be done in two ways: either entering as a funded doctoral student (I plan on leaving after getting my Master's degree) or as the standard

[Socratesabroad]

[mas]

I was looking into programs at several universities throughout Japan, but mostly at

[Socratesabroad]

[Skankster]

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My school of thought:

whatever you do.
no matter what you do
Dont teach english.

Your first job out of school is soooooooooooo important.
I would imagine it would be the same for grad school too.

[Skankster]

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BTW: Uni students in Japan dont have to study. I hear its a cakewalk.

[dimwit]

[mas]

I would really enjoy going into a civil/environmental firm, and everything I see says that environmental field is really getting started in Japan, but there's a couple of problems. The biggest would be that most companies in the field don't look like they're considering hiring foreigners. Every single recruitment site I've looked at has numerous jobs for engineers, but only in the field of IT/computers/electrical (this could also be because it's not a good time to start looking, but I digress). Also, the company sites I've looked at seem to want recent college graduates, which means I'd have to apply in March. Of course I would be a recent college graduate by then, and this could be advantageous if I were to find a place to stay in Japan for ten months working on my conversation/writing ability. But there's no way I could have enough money saved up to accomplish this. And since most of these companies aren't going to have programs in place to help foreingers adjust, I was thinking that I could first find an in through education/

[Socratesabroad]

Mas, last comment here. Tohoku is nice, don't get me wrong. There just wasn't much in the way of opportunity for a self-supporting foreigner to go to school at nights/while working FT.

You might look more into opportunities in Aomori and Yamagata. Aomori's currently got Misawa AFB, which is sure to have construction needs/env. assessment. Aomori has also campaigned for several national science projects to be located there. And as I mentioned Yamagata earlier, they have pretty significant marine trade with Russia, so you might check it out.

Best of luck.

[kamome]

Mas,

Send a PM to Captain Japan, who is a long-term member of this site and knows a thing or two about civil engineering jobs with Japanese companies.

Also, the eikaiwa thing makes no sense if you want to be an engineer. I don't understand why it's even on your list as an option.

[Skankster]

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- FYI

A couple of things that I found hard to overcome.

1) Having taught English while an MBA student. People really look down on this. If I had been a waiter while an MBA student that would have been better. This was perhaps the biggest block of all. Teachers (for some reason) are looked down on as the scum of the earth. One guy who interviewed me chewed me out for being a teacher even though he had been one for a short time in the past!!

http://forums.kawama.tzo.com:1023/cgi-bin/ydforum/ikonboard.pl?s=1bd1b494a452a452e17c064104a5ceda;act=ST;f=9;t=103

[mas]

Also, the eikaiwa thing makes no sense if you want to be an engineer. I don't understand why it's even on your list as an option.

Well, it's an in. I figure I can probably scrounge about $4k before graduation in May, which just isn't enough for airfare, room/board, and other expenses that I'd incur while searching for work. Most of the major

[Taro Toporific]

[b]Getting laid by the US beach volleyball team or Public Castration on CNN]

It's not fair to ask a trick question.

[dimwit]

[Zulu]

while the Uni is decent reputation-wise in Tohoku, it really wouldn't carry well if you decided to work in Tokyo, Osaka, etc.

Considering its regarded as one of the best universities in Japan, by both Japanese and foreigners, I'm not so sure how you come to this conclusion. In fact I have seen rankings of Asian and Australian Universities, and as Tokyo Uni declines to be included, it is often ranked as the #1 university in Australasia. I think you're fixated on Todai cause that's the uni you tried to get into.

[Socratesabroad]

[Zulu]

And Zulu, your opinions are based on....

http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/universities2000/schools/multi.overall.html

Yep, I figured as much.

Oh did you? Apparently based on a lot harder evidence than "cause I wanted to go there."

[Socratesabroad]

And Zulu, your opinions are based on....

http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/universities2000/schools/multi.overall.html

Yep, I'll admit I was a bit curious about the asiaweek university ratings - Todai didn't even place that time. But then again, all of the ratings pages I've seen date from 1999-2000. Care to post a link to a recent one? What's more, the same ratings didn't just shaft upper-tier Japanese universities, they also ignored decent Chinese ones. And since I again looked at several schools before coming (Beida and Nankai - medicine) that Chinese told me were well respected - funny, they never made it on the same ratings....
About those ratings:

"What happened to the University of Tokyo, the multi-disciplinary topnotcher in 1997 and 1998? Hasumi Shigehiko, who became university president last year, decided to withdraw from the survey."
Contrast this to 1998 ranking assessment by Asiaweek magazine's survey of 'Asia's best universities' : University of Tokyo and Kyoto University were among the three top-ranked universities in the Asian region.
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~ja8i-brtl/edu_in_japan.htm

And of course there are other ratings:

New Page 1 from the Huazhong University of Science & Technology website provides the ranking Top 20 Universities in Japan as follows:

1. Tsudajuku University (Law & Humanities)
2. Waseda University (Law & Humanities)
3. Tsudajuku University (Science & Technology)
4. Kyoto University(Law & Humanities)
5. Waseda University (Science & Technology)
6. Kyoto University (Science & Technology)
7. Hitotsubashi University (Science & Technology)
8. Nishigakuinn University
9. Tokyo University (Science & Technology)
10. Tokyo University (Law & Humanities)
11. Osaka University (Science & Technology)
12. Jyochi University (a.k.a Sophia University)
13. Doshisha University (Law & Humanities)
14. Kitazato University (Science & Technology)
15. (Law & Humanities)
16. Kobe University (Law & Humanities)
17. Tokyo Kogyo University (a.k.a. Tokyo Institute of Technology)
18. Tsukuba University
19. Hokkaido University (Science & Technology)
20. Hokkaido University(Law & Humanities)

Funny, a few of the places I mentioned (forgot about Hitotsubashi) are listed, but where's Tohoku?

And now lets look at the numbers:
Tohoku's staff
No. of Professors 771
No. of Associate Professors 603
No. of Assistant Professors (full-time / part-time) 157
No. of Research Associates 1,039

1531 profs and 1039 ra's

Todai's staff
No. of Professors 1,389
No. of Associate Professors 1,251
No. of Assistant Professors (full-time / part-time) 1,641
No. of Research Associates 1,291

4281 profs and 1291 ra's

Tohoku's student body
No. of Undergraduate Degree Students 10,791
No. of International Students (Degree / Non-degree) 83/61
No. of Granduate Degree Students 6,374
No. of International Students (Degree / Non-degree) 620/192

83 foreigner undergrads + 620 foreigner grad students

Todai's student body
No. of Undergraduate Degree Students 15,370
No. of International Students (Degree / Non-degree) 211/35
No. of Granduate Degree Students 11,811
No. of International Students (Degree / Non-degree) 1,401/403

211 foreigner undergrads + 1401 foreigner grad students

But does Todai just have larger numbers? It sure does, and then some:

The University of Tokyo consists of ten faculties, fourteen graduate schools, eleven affiliated research institutions and various other large and small research and educational facilities promoting diverse advanced research and educational activities. It has about 7,600 teaching and administrative staff on three campuses at Hongo, Komaba and Kashiwa. As of May 2002, The University of Tokyo had 2,050 registered international students, which correspond to about 7% of the total number of Japanese students.

But beyond than sheer numbers, let's also look at resources...
Tohoku
No. of Libraries(No. of Volumes) 5(3,809,949)
Computers are available for all students. All students have e-mail accounts.
Todai
No. of Libraries(No. of Volumes) 56(8,031,212)
1,600 terminals, Windows servers, UNIX servers with Internet connectivity, and E-mail and Web accounts are available for all students and researchers.http://www.ecc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/ENGLISH/index-e.html

But more to the crux of the matter, let's look at admissions...
Feel free to take a look at the subjects foreign students start with at Tohoku:
http://insc.tohoku.ac.jp/files/zengaku.html

To enroll in a faculty of The University of Tokyo (four years for graduation, and six years for graduation in the Faculty of Medicine and the Department of Veterinary Science in the Faculty of Agriculture), you are required to pass the same general screening test as Japanese students or a special screening test (for students who have graduated from foreign schools). This page is an explanation of the special screening test Most of the lectures in the faculties of The University of Tokyo are delivered in Japanese even for foreign students. Taking this point fully into account, foreign students must master the Japanese language before they enroll in The University of Tokyo.
http://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/stu03/e01_02_e.html

[all emphasis mine]

And the winner is....Todai.

Oh did you? Apparently based on a lot harder evidence than "cause I wanted to go there."

Yep, a lot harder.

[Zulu]

Dude, replying to all of that is simple.

Firstly, I know Todai wasn't mentioned and I know that they didn't want to be included in that survey.

Secondly, there may not be a more recent survey than that, but within the last 4 years is close enough for our discussion.

Third, the Chinese list you mentioned that didn't include Tohoku, take a look at what they are rating and compare it to what the Asia Week magazine is rating. Don't follow? Simple. The Asia Week has different criteria, simply put it is rating universities by multi-disciplines. Your rankings are obviously specific to (mostly) science and technology. So what can be gathered from that? According to the Chinese list (and we don't know their criteria) Tohoku isn't the best in any one field. But according to the Asia Week magazine they are one of the best universities in Japan. This then means that Tohoku when all disciplines are taken into account are a pretty decent uni. Hence no matter what you study you are probably going to get a pretty decent education. (That Chinese site is also interesting for another reason: Todai is generally regarded, rightly or wrongly, the best uni in Japan for Law yet it only places 11th on that list.)

Finally, I'm not saying Todai is a terrible university. (Not sure why you assume that.) On the contrary I know it to be a good university. All I am saying is that you were saying Tohoku wasn't as good as other universities in Tokyo. So assuming that Todai is the best in the land (and hence Tokyo) where does that leave Tohoku in comparison? Better than any other Tokyo based university according to Asia Week.

So this brings us back to what we were originally arguing about. You said something to the effect (and I don't have time to quote you; doing a rush translation job at the minute) that Tohoku uni may be good for the sticks but Tokyo City uni's are where its at so give Tohoku the flick. According to Asia Week this is clearly not the case.

Now if we were to look specifically at the original posters degree (civil engineering was it?) and match it to specific universities then perhaps in the end you would be proven correct.

But having said that, it is my personal opinion (gathered from knowing many doctoral students in my uni days) that at the PhD level it is A LOT less important where you study than at the undergraduate level.

[Socratesabroad]

[mas]

Holy goddamn flaming. The thing is that no one should choose a school on rankings alone. When going into grad school, you first find the school that offers the best programs for your research, along with the best professors who can help you out. Rankings be damned!

I remember hearing about Tohoku's placement in AsiaWeek Magazine. Of course I was there in 2001/2002, when the placement was a bit more timely. I honestly didn't think much of it at the time; after all, I had gotten in

[Socratesabroad]

[Zulu]

MAS, I'm not suggesting you choose a university based on its ranking. I think you should choose a university with your own criteria in mind, whether that be because that university is the best in your field or because it has the prettiest girls or whatever else your criteria may be.

You'll also notice that I said that I know little to nothing about your field of study and that Tohoku may not be the best choice for you. My argument was that perhaps Tohoku wasn't as terrible as SA was making out. It seems you've studied there so in that regard you should know better than all of us anyhow.

As far as your original question of whether to get a PhD or do eikaiwa, well that's like asking whether you should eat the steak or the lobster. You can't even compare them. Only you know what is best for your career/future.

[Taro Toporific]

As far as your original question of whether to get a PhD or do eikaiwa, well that's like asking whether you should eat the steak or the lobster. You can't even compare them..

It's more like asking whether you should eat Kobe beef or 7-11 natto. :P

[Zulu]

As far as your original question of whether to get a PhD or do eikaiwa, well that's like asking whether you should eat the steak or the lobster. You can't even compare them..

It's more like asking whether you should eat Kobe beef or 7-11 natto. :P

Hey! Natto is good stuff man! You should have said Kobe beef or the dog's breakfast...

[Taro Toporific]

As far as your original question of whether to get a PhD or do eikaiwa, well that's like asking whether you should eat the steak or the lobster. You can't even compare them..

It's more like asking whether you should eat Kobe beef or 7-11 natto. :P

Hey! Natto is good stuff man! You should have said Kobe beef or the dog's breakfast...

But Kobe beef is my dog's breakfast, since I don't teach eikaiwa.

Seriously: The life as PhD student even a shithole like Japan is so much better than eikaiwa teacher (unless your a school owner) I can't imagine why you're asking this question. As I've said before, I've got ESL/EFL certification with my masters, and within 30 seconds of landing at Narita I knew that teaching is not desirable.