Watching movie credits roll in the dark

[torasan]

What's your experience watching movies in Japan in terms of

DO PEOPLE usually stay and watch quietly as the credits roll and the theme music plays, whether it's a local movie or a foreign movie, all the way through to end

DO YOU?

Have you habits in terms of watching movie credits changed since you came here?

3. Or do most people stand up and rush out as soon as the movie is over?

PERSONAL EXPERIENCES< ANECDOTES> STORIES> THOUGHTS

What's the proper etiquette on this habit of viewing movie credits, and what's the proper mood at film festivals versus public theaters?

Any difference?

And what would Jean Luc Godard say about all this? Or Beat Takeshi for that matter?

[jingai]

It's an excellent time to pull up the pants.

[Taro Toporific]

What's your experience watching movies in Japan in terms of
DO PEOPLE usually stay and watch quietly as the credits roll and the theme music plays, whether it's a local movie or a foreign movie, all the way through to end

Yeah, Japanese stay (and so do I because I need the house lights to walk out). But in the past 15-20 years there has been more reasons to stay because "out-takes" and sequel hints are shown as the credits roll. I was just watching Steve Martin's "The Rainmaker" (1992) and the gospel music blow-out as the credits rolled was better than the movie.

[khusam]

I always watch the credits, and I wish they would roll them slower. I want to know about different locations and crews, and about how many people it took to pull off the movie.

I also know some of them...

[Blah Pete]

There is a good article in the June edition of Wired magazine about a guy name Kyle Cooper who specializes in movie credits. His works include The island of Dr. Moreau, Mission Impossible, Spider Man, Sphere, Spawn, Twister, Dawn of the Dead, and Flubber.
A quote from a NY Times film critic:

The opening and closing credits are so good, they're almost worth sitting through the film for

Another quote from a director:

Some directors refuse to work with him: "He makes the title sequences better than the movie."

He has also done some game work; Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater.

[torasan]

thanks for the heads up on the Wired piece.

yes, interesting that credits USED to come at the beginning of a film, in the opening sequence, and still do, in a limited way, but the big credits sequencing now comes at the end, in a segment anywhere from 10 seconds to i think the record is 9 minutes 33 seconds for LOTR.

I myself LOVE sitting in the dark theater after a good movie and taking in the credits quietly with me wife, hearing the theme music, looking for some names, seeing who did the music, where the locations were shot, and things like that. For me, it is part of the movie experience, staying for the credits. But I was brought up on Bergman and Godard and Truffaut and Kurosawa and film festivals and the Cinemateche in Paris, so I am bit biased on this, I guess.

I hate the new etiquette which is as soon as movie is over, open the doors, everyone rushes out, TERRIBLE, THEY ALL OUGHTA BE ARRESTED.

[Taro Toporific]

There is a good article in the June edition of Wired magazine about a guy name Kyle Cooper who specializes in movie credits.....
A quote from a NY Times film critic:

The opening and closing credits are so good, they're almost worth sitting through the film for

The location of that Kyle Cooper story is: WIRED Issue 12.06 - June 2004The Dark Genius of Kyle Cooper
His two-minute masterpieces made him one of the hottest properties in Hollywood. And that's just for starters.

[torasan]

Recently, I asked people
worldwide on the Net and here and there what they felt about staying to
watch movie credits. I asked a simple question and
this is what they said in reply. Mostly answers from USA people.

QUESTION: Simply put: do you and your friends always
stay and watch the movie credits at the end of a film,
all the way through, or do you bolt and run and why?


ANSWERS:

1. In Manhattan, people sit through them.
In L.A., people usually sit through them, either to
see if they know the best boy or the gaffer or
someone, or to give fellow patrons the impression that
they might.

2. I've never seen a movie in the Midwest, but I bet a
lot of people get up. If not, it's probably because
there was a surprise at the end of the credits to
''Wayne's World'' in 1990, so maybe there will be one
again.

3. Here in Portland, about 50% of the people get up,
but this is so predictable that if you are a
getter-upper, you don't usually sit in the middle of
the aisles. No one in Portland cares whether you know
the gaffer or the second second assistant director, or
even Gus Van Sant for that matter.

4. It's nice to start talking about the movie during
the credits, I find. And I often want to find out
about one song or another I might have heard in the
show and like to see the music credits which are
usually near the end of the roll.

5. In Los Angeles... about 2/3 leave and 1/3 stay till
the lighgts come up.
I stay, unless I desperately need to pee. The older I
get, the fewer credits I see to the end. Sigh.

6. I am sometimes the only person in a theater who
remained for the credits, and man, those ushers can
GLARE!

7. Credits gently guide me back to reality because
they are a part of the film, and I think it is
important to recieve all the work a director puts into
their art. Unless the movie was absolutely terrible,
I stick around until the lights come up.

8. like to sit through the credits so I can reflect
on the movie and absorb it. I only sort of half pay
attention to the names, most of them don't mean much
to anyone not in the movie business. However, for
example, "Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story" has an
awesome/awful comedy bit after the credits. I still
can't get it out of my mind's eye weeks after seeing
it.

9. I live in the midwest, and I watch the credits,
always. But that's mostly because I married a film
buff who cares and remembers who did the film editing
or sound and whatnot on different films. I'm only
really interested if I liked the film a lot and the
"behind the scenes" stuff seemed especially critical
to the end result I enjoyed -- say, for example, the
color and cinematography of "The City of Lost
Children." Also, we're frequently either the only ones
or part of only a handful to stay. Don't know if this
reflects the rest of the Midwest, but I suspect so.
[NOTE: PAIGE WISER LIVES IN THE MIDWEST.]

10. I usually stay seated to digest the movie. But
some theaters turn the lights up at the start of
credits to speed-up turnover. This makes the screen
harder to see, like during Dawn of the Dead, which had
important plot stuff during the credits.

11. In Seattle, where I live, I do not sit through
movie credits unless I'm interested in them, or
perhaps if it's at a film festival and the people
involved are thus likely to be present. Everyone here
in Seattle seems to sit through them, no matter what,
and I have no idea why. Who, exactly, am I showing
courtesy to by staying there?

12. Why do I stay to watch the credits? I do and here
is why: The people... who worked on the movie. The
electricians, the carpenters, the foley artists
(ambient sounds, etc), the make-up, the food (craft)
service. The ones who don't make hundreds of thousands
of dollars, the ones who actually work 14-16 hours a
day without benefit of a comfy trailer to sit in
between shots. Occasionally, someone in the movie
industry attempts to get rid of the practice of
putting those people's names in the credits because of
the widespread feeling REPEATED BY PAIGE WISER IN THE
CHICAGO SUN-TIMES that "nobody sits through the
credits anyway." Considering the disparity between
their compensation and the "above the line" people
(actors, directors, producers, music,
cinematographer), it's criminal to suggest they
shouldn't even have their names publicly acknowledged
for their work. But, go figure, this is America!
Anyway, that's the biggest reason I try to stay till
the end. Plus, every once in a while, after a comedy
or animated feature, they have outtakes and extra
stuff. A nice big BONUS for being respectful!

13. There's always information in the credits that I
want to know after having watched the movie. (It
drives me crazy that I can't actually read the few
credits they do show on TV anymore, especially
cartoons, I'm always trying to read the voice castings
and the damn things go by so quickly, like at the
speed of light!)
Invariably there's something that's been in the film
(either good or really bad) that I want to ponder,
know more about and the credits give me info about it.
Plus, always the sociologist, I find it a good
reminder in this land that worships individuals, what
a collective, collaborative and social product a film
actually is. It's an hommage not just to the
individual people but the very social nature of the
endeavor I've just paid $10.50 to enjoy. (And, yes, I
actually do feel that way when I watch the credits and
it often gives me goosebumps -- or maybe that's just
the air conditioning or the very much too loud
manipulative music?)

14. In the past, credits ran at the beginning of the
film and were limited to title, stars and a few other
personnel. Now, the credits appear at the end and
include every person remotely connected with the film,
from stars to animal trainers and caterers. Why did
this credits-at-the-end format begin? Why are so many
people credited now?

15. Back in the day when the studios controlled
everything, there weren't many names listed in
credits. For that matter, there weren't many Oscars
handed out, either -- only a dozen or so. Like the
first Oscars, credits were quick and sparse and pretty
much stayed that way through the early 1930s. (I do
recall Fredric March's 1931 film Dr. Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde as one that repeated its major cast list at the
end of the movie.) Credits got a bigger bump in the
1940s and, especially, in the 1950s with the advent of
television. Lengthier credits seemed to give movies
more weight. So many names happen because various
guilds have urged on the practice. It even gets
written into job contracts. And a credit is an easy
way to soothe any hurt egos. Do we really need to know
the name of every single assistant -- and there are
always many -- assigned to Jerry Bruckheimer? No, we
don't. But ... their mothers sure do.

16. I always stay and watch. To me, not watching the
credits is like reading a book without glancing at and
reading the introduction, the acknowledgments, the
jacket copy, the cover page, the back cover page,
and.....the last page. A movie not just a movie from
narrative beginning to narrative ending. It also
creates a mood, and the credits sequence is part of
the mood, especially when the theme music or a totally
new song commissioned just for the credits come up.
EVERYONE should STAY PUT until the very end, lights
come up. PERIOD. IMHO. The credits help viewers come
down slowly from the "high" of being transported to a
magical universe called "THE MOVIES!"


17. My experience in Kansas City is that in the "art"
theaters, almost all the audience stays through all
the credits. In the first-run, mainstream theaters,
almost none of the audience stays. Go figure.

18. My policy is this: I stay if I want to know the
name of someone in the cast.
Or if movie was so transporting that I need to sit for
a while and let it settle. Of if I'm in the middle of
a row and the aisles will be crowded for a while
anyway. Or if the
end credits are worth watching as part of the movie.
Sometimes they really are, and sometimes not. Case by
case. Depends on the movie, and my mood.

19. My wife and I are always the last ones in the
theater. Partly because these days there's quite
often some easter egg at the very end for those who
stay (e.g. "mischief managed" at the end of the latest
Harry Potter), or some form of entertainment during
the credits (e.g. the sea creatures cavorting around
the text at the end of Finding Nemo), but also because
there's usually something interesting to us in the
text itself -- maybe some music, or obscure actor, or
something interesting about the location or effects.
Sometimes even some more interesting writing in there
at the very end.

20. My wife, a lawyer, ahem, but not an entertainment
lawyer, stays to the end to see the attorneys'
credits. Not that she knows any of those people, but
she likes to see them. Go figure.

[Steve Bildermann]

When I was a kid in England at the end of all movies the theatres played the national anthem (some stlil do) Everybody stood up and waited till the end. It just wasn't 'done' to leave

One day during the sixties my local town headline news read 'rebellious hippies refuse to stand for anthem - patrons outraged'

In these 'patrotic' times in the US I bet everybody would stay if you played the US national anthem. Oh btw did you know the US national athem actually has three verses and the UK anthem has two

Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that Star-Spangled Banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?


On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines on the stream:
'Tis the Star-Spangled Banner! O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.


Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust".
And the Star-Spangled Banner forever shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

God save our gracious Queen!
Long live our noble Queen!
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.

Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour,
Long may she reign.
May she defend our laws,
And give us ever cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen.

[Mulboyne]

Don't forget the third "dropped" verse:
"God grant that Marshal Wade / May by the mighty aid / Victory bring. / May he sedition hush / And like a torrent rush / Rebellious Scots to crush / God save the king."
It was written just after the Scots were defeated so it was appropriate at the time.

[Steve Bildermann]

It was written just after the Scots were defeated so it was appropriate at the time.

Thanks I did know about it but out of respect for Mel Gibson I left it out too.

[torasan]

thanks, steve, you from uk .... /sorry no caps on keyboard tonite/

steve wrote; ''When I was a kid in England at the end of all movies the theatres played the national anthem (some stlil do) Everybody stood up and waited till the end. It just wasn't 'done' to leave''

note; in taiwan, i heard that until martial law was revoked around 1988, they all stood and sang the roc national anthem before the movie, everyone..


as for steve's note that if

''In these 'patrotic' times in the US I bet everybody would stay if you played the US national anthem. ''

steve, i don't think so. many might, maybe half, but don't get waylaid by the media. not everyone is usa is a hawk or supports the war be easy them yanks, sire... smile

credits used to run before a movie, now they run mostly at the end. and instead just the cast, it;s now all 548 people who worked on the film, in any small way, including the driver of the car of the caterer. go figure

[kamome]

Whether or not someone gets credit in a movie is one of the more important deal points when negotiating talent contracts. The positioning of the credit in relation to the other actors (first, second, third), whether they get an "and" credit, etc. are really important to people in showbiz. Also, the wording attributed to directors is important: "a film by" seems to carry more weight than "directed by" (ultra can probably give more detail on this). I once had a job analyzing talent contracts and chartering out their credit requirements; it can be a hot button issue with L.A. egos on the line.

[torasan]

ramuji, cool dude who plays the strangest guitar i ever saw called the chapman stick, check out his website, cool... writes:

In Japan.... (or at least in Hiroshima, where I live) ....most people seem to stay until the final movie credits end.

I remember finding this rather odd when I first moved to Japan in 1993, because as a young'un in the USA I almost never watched the credits.

These days I almost always stay until the end.

In addition to reading all the info, the ending music for many movies is a treat to listen to.

Also, the extra few minutes sitting in the dark theater can be a great time to reflect on what I just watched, and give me a moment to bring myself down out of fantasy before rushing back out into the reality outside.

-- by ramuji

http://www.ramuji.com

[torasan]

kamome, since you were in the biz so to speak, can you explain:

what does a second assistant director do?

what is a gaffer?

what is a second unit director doing?

what is the difference between a producer, an executive producer, a line producer and a co-producer.

For example, i heard that Steve Tisch who got producer credit for FORREST GUMP, in fact, did nothing on that movie. HE just owned the production company that employed the lady who found the book and made the deal for the movie, Wendy Finerman, but HE got all the credit, and money too, I suppose. How does that happen?

what's a rigger?

what's a caterer do on a film set?

what does the casting director do and how do they do it?

thanks, mate

ToRa

[Mulboyne]

Tora-san, quick an dirty for you...

(1)An assistant director makes sure the director is on schedule. The second assistant director assists him. Generally in charge of cast call sheets (making sure cast members are available for certain scenes).
(2)The Gaffer is the lighting technician. The Cameraman and/or Director want certain lighting in a given shot and the gaffer makes sure the lighting effects are available/in place
(3) The second unit director films location shots - say a shot of city from a hill - which then gets edited into the narrative. Basically, any shot which does not require cast members can be given to a second unit if money is available.
(4) Anybody's guess. The designation depends on what else you are doing and who you work for. If you are an EP, you are involved in legal in the sense that you demanded an EP assignation as part of your deal to be in the project. Or someone demanded it for you. An EP is looking to claim credit for a successful project. If you are an AP, you could be an EP but you work/represent a production company which has lower status in the deal than another company. In both cases, you could still be involved in other projects. A LP is hands-on and only works on the project in hand. But still is subordinate to the producer. The CP is likely to be more important than an EP or AP and more involved in the creative side of the project alongside the producer.
(5) I don't know if your story about Tisch/Forrest Gump is right but I don't see a problem. Imagine this statement
"I heard that the banker who got the credit for that deal did nothing for that deal. He just owned the bank who employed the woman who found the deal but he got all the credit and the money"
Happens all the time. Set up your own company if you dont like it. Could she have got the deal if she didn't represent a production company? Why would he hire her if she couldn't bring in projects?
(6) Similar to Key Grip but KG is senior. How do you get production equipment in place? Need a guy to get a camera positioned on cliff face? Get the rigger. Might get involved with stunt equipment. Depends on the film budget.
(7) Feeds everyone. You are on location, where is the food coming from? Get a caterer. Some stars have their own, sometimes the caterer handles them too. Food available, for cast and crew.
(8) Ah, the casting couch. Some projects are put together with stars in mind. Most need a clever casting director to find the right actors for the right role. The director hasn't got the time or contacts to put together a list for auditions. How do they do it? They spend all their time checking out faces/body shapes and keep them in mind when they see a project. The casting director for "Last Samurai" was crucial given that only Tom Cruise was a given in the project and the Director had never heard of Ken Watanabe or Koyuki before. So you have to pick an appropriate CD early in your project.

[Caustic Saint]

In Korea everybody leaves - except the foreigners. The locals even walk out when there's still stuff going on. Dawn of the Dead (the remake) blew my mind though. It's obvious to my friends and I that things haven't finished yet, but we were the only ones still in our seats.

And that one's not even a sneaky "surprise for those who stuck around" kind of deal. The movie's still going on while the credits roll. I guess they figure if there are names on the screen, it's time to leave.

Dumbasses.

[torasan]

thanks, Mulboyne,w ow, yoiu really know the film biz well. are you in it>?
dfirector,? porodcuer? wow...

tahnks

again

and so KOREA does not watch Credits,
Japan does
USa is half half]
what about Uk or France or Germany or italy or CHINA?

[Taro Toporific]

dfirector,? porodcuer? wow...

YES, tell us but...
Pleeeease don't tell us you work for worse-dickedjeads than Microsoft, aka "Tokyo Tsushin Kenkyujo" aka 'sonus' in Latin.