Serious post about literature

[OKLAHOMA]

Unlike my other posts in which I lambaste virtually all of you, in this "thread" I wish to discuss Japanese Literature and translators.

I like Nagai, Mishima and the memoirs of 'old Japan hands' like Seidensticker, Nathan, Richie and Keene. i especially like Nathan since he's the oly red-blooded male who describes his boinking attempts and conquests. The others are either silent or have a penchant for "the love that dares not speak its name".

[BO-SENSEI]

I'll take a stab at this one,

While i have not yet read any of the works you mentioned, but i am looking forward to reading Nathan's Japan Bound, the premise reminds me of the country's shift in culture and the lack of identity that was so common in the works of my favorite Japanese writer, Natsume Soseki. Who's books and lectures during the late Meiji Period talked about how Japan had adopted Western technology at such a rapid pace that he felt that Japan was losing its identity.

Its interesting that almost a century later, people still feel the same way.

[OKLAHOMA]

AT LAST! An intelligent post about something other than the "horrors" of being a GAIJIN in JAPAN.

It still amazes me that most of the major translators and interpreters of Japanese culture are Hershey Highwaymen. Seidensticker (never heard of hum, huh?) brags in his memoirs about bringing homeless bums up to his apartment, feeding them, plying them with liquor and then butt-fucking the shit out of them. Pun intended.

But seriously folks, I never cared for Soseki. Too descriptive. No narrative drive. Two-dimensional characters. No verve or moxie.

[CrankyBastard]

AT LAST! An intelligent post about something other than the "horrors" of being a GAIJIN in JAPAN.

It still amazes me that most of the major translators and interpreters of Japanese culture are Hershey Highwaymen. Seidensticker (never heard of hum, huh?) brags in his memoirs about bringing homeless bums up to his apartment, feeding them, plying them with liquor and then butt-fucking the shit out of them. Pun intended.

But seriously folks, I never cared for Soseki. Too descriptive. No narrative drive. Two-dimensional characters. No verve or moxie.

Are you one of those really fucked-up gaijin that say crap like, "Of course, to appreciate the Tale of Genji or more correctly, Genji monogatari, such literature is best read in the original"?

[BO-SENSEI]

[Takechanpoo]

Hey BO,
have you ever read Furui Yoshikichi?
He is one of fruits of contemporary Japanese literature and more appropriate to Nobel prize than Murakami.
Read his works, especially his Rakutenki.
This is a advice from a senior.

[Midwinter]

... nearly controlled all of the Pacific...

There's at least 7,686,850 square kilometers of South Pacific real estate that says Japan wasn't even close to that goal.

[OKLAHOMA]

Are you one of those really fucked-up gaijin that say crap like, "Of course, to appreciate the Tale of Genji or more correctly, Genji monogatari, such literature is best read in the original"?

Uh, no.

[OKLAHOMA]

I am not much of a reader and thus did really focus on how he was as a writer, I ...
Kind of off topic, but I am not letting what a learned in college go to waste. Also, have you ever read Akutagawa or Mishima?

Yep. lots. I work in Tokyo and enjoy Mishima's descriptions of the physical urban landscape, rather than the sordid trysting joints that he seems to have been fond of. Heh. Heh. He also goes into a lot of post-EDO history in his TETRALOGY.(notice the all-CAPS, denoting emphasis).

Mishima's widow refuses to allow the publication of some of his correspondence because it would prove that, he was, um... rather peculiar in some ways.

[leitmotiv]

[Mishima] was, um... rather peculiar in some ways.

....You mean a violently suicidal pickle-sniffer? I thought you didnt care for those types.

[Mike Oxlong]

Yep. lots. I work in Tokyo and enjoy Mishima's descriptions of the physical urban landscape, rather than the sordid trysting joints that he seems to have been fond of. Heh. Heh. He also goes into a lot of post-EDO history in his TETRALOGY.(notice the all-CAPS, denoting emphasis).

Mishima's widow refuses to allow the publication of some of his correspondence because it would prove that, he was, um... rather peculiar in some ways.

Were't the samurai rather "peculiar" themselves...? Wasn't their ideal of love something like the thing you got going with Bo?

[kusai Jijii]

[lmingwei]

This thread seems to have very little to do with literature, but I thought I'd add my own two cents for the hell of it.

1. Yasunari Kawabata is my favorite Japanese writer. A Thousand Cranes, which is about a guy who's father's ex-mistresses try to seduce him with their daughters, is my personal favorite. But he's got a bunch of other good ones, such as The Lake, which is about a somewhat pitiful stalker. Don't read the Master of Go unless you REALLY like Go.

2. Kenzaburo Oe is great too. I recommend Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids or the Silent Cry.

3. Soseki is awesome, I don't know what you people are thinking. Kokoro is great: the first half of the book is from the perspective a guy who worships his "master" even though he has a dark secret. Then in the second part of the book we learn that the dark secret is that the master is in fact a neurotic woody-allen-esque dork. What's not to love?

4. Tanizaki: Film noir-esque plots with scheming lesbians. Hilarious stuff.

5. Ryu Murakami: His later works can be a tad gross, but 69 is great. It's like Bukowski in Japan.

[Mike Oxlong]

Since we gettin' all serious and shit...I liked this book immensely.



But for you, I'd recommend this one (ask Bo if you need a synopsis):

[omae mona]

For those who prefer an engaging discussion comparing Tokyo to some of its nearby prefectures, as well as the fascinating foreigners who live in them, you can follow the alternative thread here.

[OKLAHOMA]

This thread seems to have very little to do with literature, but I thought I'd add my own two cents for the hell of it.

1. Yasunari Kawabata is my favorite Japanese writer. A Thousand Cranes, which is about a guy who's father's ex-mistresses try to seduce him with their daughters, is my personal favorite. But he's got a bunch of other good ones, such as The Lake, which is about a somewhat pitiful stalker. Don't read the Master of Go unless you REALLY like Go.

2. Kenzaburo Oe is great too. I recommend Nip the Buds, Shoot the Kids or the Silent Cry.

3. Soseki is awesome, I don't know what you people are thinking. Kokoro is great: the first half of the book is from the perspective a guy who worships his "master" even though he has a dark secret. Then in the second part of the book we learn that the dark secret is that the master is in fact a neurotic woody-allen-esque dork. What's not to love?

4. Tanizaki: Film noir-esque plots with scheming lesbians. Hilarious stuff.

5. Ryu Murakami: His later works can be a tad gross, but 69 is great. It's like Bukowski in Japan.

You forgot YUKI GUNI, the book that got Kawabata his Noble prize, translated by everyone's favourite sodomite, Edward Seidensticker.

Oe is very philosophical. Most Japanese can't stand him. Too hard to read.

Soseki is for kids and people who wouldn't otherwise read.

Tanizaki: bourgeois punk.

Both Murakamis are trendoid dopes. They will be forgotten in a few decades.

[Behan]

Since we gettin' all serious and shit...I liked this book immensely.



But for you, I'd recommend this one (ask Bo if you need a synopsis):

I only read them in English, but Saikaku's stories are funny. In the The Great Mirror of Male Love he makes fun of the lengths (no pun intended) that homosexuals would get to get off.

[Iraira]

I only read them in English, but Saikaku's stories are funny. In the The Great Mirror of Male Love he makes fun of the lengths (no pun intended) that homosexuals would get to get off.

I heard Greji ran through a minefield to get firsts on a stray sheep, but the animal was female.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

You forgot YUKI GUNI, the book that got Kawabata his Noble prize, translated by everyone's favourite sodomite, Edward Seidensticker.

Oe is very philosophical. Most Japanese can't stand him. Too hard to read.

Soseki is for kids and people who wouldn't otherwise read.

Tanizaki: bourgeois punk.

Both Murakamis are trendoid dopes. They will be forgotten in a few decades.

i'd like to give you a prize for being a total tool.

it's 'noBEL', not 'Noble'. someone who claims to be so literate should know that.

'dance dance dance' was brilliant. captures the sentiment of this generation perfectly. murakami will be remembered as a genius of his time. for many decades to come.

[OKLAHOMA]

i'd like to give you a prize for being a total tool.

it's 'noBEL', not 'Noble'. someone who claims to be so literate should know that.

'dance dance dance' was brilliant. captures the sentiment of this generation perfectly. murakami will be remembered as a genius of his time. for many decades to come.

It was a TYPO, you moron. Critics love Murakami. He's a boring dullard.

Doestoyevsky and Tolstoy are far superior.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Doestoyevsky and Tolstoy are far superior.

of course they are, they're russian.

[sillygirl]

of course they are, they're russian.

Cyka - I love you! (in a non-lesbo way)

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Cyka - I love you! (in a non-lesbo way)

i love you too. and it just *might* BE in a lesbo way.

and now that we've given the FG boys something to salivate over, i better shut up before omae has to split the thread again.

[sillygirl]

i love you too. and it just *might* BE in a lesbo way.

and now that we've given the FG boys something to salivate over, i better shut up before omae has to split the thread again.

Actually I lied....I like it when you dress up as a J school girl....

(enough to keep 'em busy for a bit?)

[dimwit]

In Matsuyama, we are not permitted to speak ill of Soseki or we are forced to eat those Botchan Dango thingies that we fob away on tourists. That being said, to say that Soseki is for children as Okie/Jack seems to makes as much sense as saying that Mark Twain should only be read by children.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Actually I lied....I like it when you dress up as a J school girl....

(enough to keep 'em busy for a bit?)

but but but, that skirt is sooooo short! i'll only wear it if you be headmistress this time.

[Midwinter]

but but but, that skirt is sooooo short! i'll only wear it if you be headmistress this time.

This is the single best thing to come out of this thread. Mods, you might as well lock it down now, it's not going to get any better unless there's alcohol involved.

[Takechanpoo]

By the way, I think probably you gaijins take it for granted that you read J-literatures in translated version despite living in Japan. "Reading literature" means to read in the original text.
I had read Russian literatures in J-translated version, too. But unlike you dudes I diligently tried studying Russian language but unfortunately got tired of its discomfort sounds and stopped studying it.

[sillygirl]

This is the single best thing to come out of this thread. Mods, you might as well lock it down now, it's not going to get any better unless there's alcohol involved.

Seconded.

(Passes Cyka hotel room key)

[Midwinter]

Seconded.

(Passes Cyka hotel room key)

*goes catatonic*