Koizumi Slams F-911 as Biased; Hasn't Seen It

[GuyJean]

Koizumi Slams 'Fahrenheit 9/11' as Politically Biased
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040802/kyodo/d8471po80.html

"I don't want to watch such a politically biased movie that much," Koizumi told reporters in saying he has no plans to go see the record-breaking documentary.

"Criticizing Bush or criticizing Koizumi, it's no use just criticizing. Constructive discussions (should take place) rather than criticisms," he said.

And we all know how productive those 'constructive discussions' are..

Choosing blindness over criticism is rarely 'constructive', in my opinion..

GJ

[Mulboyne]

What a peculiar statement. Even the Bush camp have largely taken a dismissive "no comment" approach to the film. If that was a UK prime minister speaking, it would double the box office.
I wonder what political dissent would be acceptable to Koizumi? Maybe "muzukashii desu ne" is as far as we should go.

[Video-Link Japan]

Koizumi Slams 'Fahrenheit 9/11' as Politically Biased
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/040802/kyodo/d8471po80.html

"I don't want to watch such a politically biased movie that much," Koizumi told reporters in saying he has no plans to go see the record-breaking documentary.

"Criticizing Bush or criticizing Koizumi, it's no use just criticizing. Constructive discussions (should take place) rather than criticisms," he said.

And we all know how productive those 'constructive discussions' are..

Choosing blindness over criticism is rarely 'constructive', in my opinion..

GJ

I wonder what would happen if those roles were reversed; Say a crew put together something 'like' the F-9/11, but focused on Koizumi, do you think G.W. would return the favor..?!?

[Watcher]

I'm sure it's nothing he didn't already know... what's he gonna say? "Oh yes I saw that movie. It was amazing and opened my eyes to the harsh reality that is the American government and state of international ffairs. Imagine my shock that no one had told me these things before. Everyone should see how they have pulled the wool over our eyes." Well, maybe he wouldn't be so enthusiastic... ""I saw it. Meh. My ass got real sore sitting in some dingy theatre and the fake butter on the cold popcorn kinda turned me off. Should have waited until it came on wow-wow."... or maybe he should get pissed off for not having enough of a mention in the scenes listing the Coalition of da Illing.
Michael Moore could even now market this movie with famous people saying they won't watch it.

[GuyJean]

what's he gonna say? "Oh yes I saw that movie. It was amazing and opened my eyes to the harsh reality that is the American government and state of international ffairs."

How bout', "I saw it, and I think it's a politically biased movie."?

By the way; I haven't seen F-911 either, but I think it's 100% true.

GJ

[kotatsuneko]

what is the big deal tho? documentarys are meant for tv...

so like, wow i saw f911 thats really going to change the world?

im sure all those weirdo war protestors and lefties with nothing better to do will happily waste their money on this tho

[Bongo]

[voltage]

Japan is America's bitch. Sad but true.

Japan would never do anything to anger the U.S.

But that is stupid. How could you make a judgement on something you have never seen? (Even if it is biased)

[Bongo]

Japan is America's bitch. Sad but true.

Japan would never do anything to anger the U.S.

But that is stupid. How could you make a judgement on something you have never seen? (Even if it is biased)

Yeah, I agree. But, is it really biased?
It seems like the word "biased" is used a lot these days by right wingers trying to keep the raps over peoples eyes.

Truth itself is biased and therefore the TRUTH, void of lies!

[kotatsuneko]

death and destruction are pretty cool things to watch on tv

face it

no decent war = no decent tv

dammit i`d rather watch civilians and tanks nuked on tv rather than some screaming korean drama

come to think of it , some decent tv footage of weirdo war protestors and fat assed money grabbing so called "alt" directors getting killed would be pretty damn good also!

better still, all out war between japan and kita chosen!!! get those bamboo sticks sharpened

[Faded]

[GuyJean]

Unfortunately Moore himself didn't follow that path, since his documentary wasn't exactly full of the "truth" itself Saudi Ambassador Responds to Moore Film

You accuse Moore of lying in his movie, then use quotes from the Saudi embassador to back it up? Now, who would be more 'biased'? Moore, or a Saudi lackey?

Unger, who was interviewed for Moore's film, wrote in his book that he found some $1.4 billion in investments and contracts going from the House of Saud to companies in which the Bushes held prominent positions.

Al-Faisal said he didn't believe there was any direct connection between the Saudi royal family and the Bush family.

"Saudi Arabia deals with the whole world community in business and otherwise," he said.

"We may have invested in the same companies ... It doesn't mean we were in cahoots with the Bush family about that."

Oh, yeah. I forgot how little money had influence in the world.

Personally, I don't believe there was anything sinister in the quick exit by the Saudis, but I would also like a third party to back this up.. Like there are any 'third parties' anymore, but has the FBI or CIA made comments about having enough time to interview the royal family before they left?..

(real question) US air space was entirely re-opened on Sept. 13th? I thought the skies were closed longer than 2 days..

GJ

[kansaiboy]

one thing that came out of moores film....Bush made $400,000 a year as prez right...and the from the saudis he made....ah $182 Billion ( approx, its to early to remember ).."who's ur daddy..? "

[Bongo]

[Faded]

Personally, I don't believe there was anything sinister in the quick exit by the Saudis, but I would also like a third party to back this up.. Like there are any 'third parties' anymore, but has the FBI or CIA made comments about having enough time to interview the royal family before they left?..

(real question) US air space was entirely re-opened on Sept. 13th? I thought the skies were closed longer than 2 days..

GJ

actually there was a third party. The 911 commisson. They are the ones that verified that no one left before Sept 13th (it's in the article, The response from the Saudi Ambassador was just the first news source I came across.) In the article it also says that they were cleared by the FBI to do so(but what they did to get that clearance is anyone's guess)

And yes, the skies were a flyin (though limited) in 2 days. My flight that was supposed to go out on the 15th got bumped 3 days because they were still trying to catch up with everyone that was supposed to leave in those 2 days.

As for the weapons used against the kurds and such, yes the US supplied some of the weapons (to fight Iran in the 80's) but we didn't supply the chemical weapons that he used on them, nor the torture devices (well maybe the equipment to dig the mass graves). And yes we did supply Iran too, I guess just to keep things "fair and balanced".

I'm not a Bush lover (at least not the G.W. variety) but I was happy to see someone have the cajones to step up and take some action.
Nice ad going on in the states about a bunch of people complaining about things, but no one taking action. Believe it's to get people to register to vote. Same thing applies to the U.N.

as for the $182 billion Kansaiboy alludes to, not sure where that figure comes from, but I would indeed love to hear more about it.

Just like with any movie, news source, documentary, don't assume that all you see is the truth, even if it doesn't come from the gov't. (and especially if it comes from Moore)

-faded (just happy to be playing along)

[GuyJean]

actually there was a third party. The 911 commisson. They are the ones that verified that no one left before Sept 13th (it's in the article,

But America's 9/11 commission has said it found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals took place before the reopening of national airspace on Sept. 13.

I saw that.. But it's still a little strange the FBI and CIA allowed them to leave only two days after the worst terrorist act in US history was known to be committed by one of their relatives..

"House of Bush, House of Saud," by Craig Unger, say the U.S. government helped 140 Saudis leave the United States on Sept. 13, 2001 - two dozen of whom were relatives of Osama bin Laden. Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador to London and a nephew of Crown Prince Abdullah, said there was nothing improper about the departures.

The FBI had enough time in 2 days to interview 24 bin Laden relatives?.. Something smells fishy. Where's Abu-Graib torture when you really need it?

[Bongo]

Faded Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for the weapons used against the kurds and such, yes the US supplied some of the weapons (to fight Iran in the 80's) but we didn't supply the chemical weapons that he used on them, nor the torture devices (well maybe the equipment to dig the mass graves). And yes we did supply Iran too, I guess just to keep things "fair and balanced".
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, eh......................Just what could all this be about then?




WASHINGTON (AP) — Iraq's bioweapons program that President Bush wants to eradicate got its start with help from Uncle Sam two decades ago, according to government records getting new scrutiny in light of the discussion of war against Iraq.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent samples directly to several Iraqi sites that U.N. weapons inspectors determined were part of Saddam Hussein's biological weapons program, CDC and congressional records from the early 1990s show. Iraq had ordered the samples, claiming it needed them for legitimate medical research. (Related story: A look at U.S. shipments of pathogens to Iraq)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002-09-30-iraq-ushelp-list_x.htm

[Socratesabroad]

As for the weapons used against the kurds and such, yes the US supplied some of the weapons (to fight Iran in the 80's) but we didn't supply the chemical weapons that he used on them, nor the torture devices (well maybe the equipment to dig the mass graves).

Well, eh......................Just what could all this be about then?

That could be a wonderful example of an Iraqi government hell-bent on developing chemical weapons to the extent they would even use medical institutions and research as a cover.

First, the implication that you make - that the US in the form of the US gov't provided chemical weapons to the Iraqi gov't - based on the article you mentioned is, well to be polite, complete and utter poppycock.

There are two organizations in the article, the American Type Culture Collection and the Centers for Disease Control. The former is a non-profit while the latter is a branch of the U.S. Public Health Services. Yes, they 'supplied' Iraq with virological samples - as is their mission - what the Iraqi government then did with them is scandalous (even a causus belli, if you will).

The American Type Culture Collection (ATCC) is a key resource for medical research and is the world's foremost biological culture repository.
http://www.atcc.org/

As stated, the mission of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is "To promote health and quality of life by preventing and controlling disease, injury, and disability."
http://www.cdc.gov/

Not exactly a smoking gun...

[Edited to put 'poppycock' in bold ]

[vvx]

In his film, Moore claims that the Bush administration helped a number of Saudi princes and members of the bin Laden family to flee the United States at a time when American airspace had been closed to all commercial traffic.

But America's 9/11 commission has said it found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals took place before the reopening of national airspace on Sept. 13.

Saudi Ambassador Responds to Moore Film

I see what you're saying, though there's a source you can cite that works much better for this argument.

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911facts/index.php?id=4

Unfortunately, some news organizations have misinterpreted what the film says. Some have said Fahrenheit 9/11 alleges that these flights out of the country took place when commercial airplanes were still grounded. The film does not say this. The film states clearly that these flights left after September 13 (the day the FAA began to slowly lift the ban on air traffic).

And, it's right.. the movie does say after September 13th. To be honest, I couldn't find a lie in the movie. Now, what is _implied_ is far different.. Watching the movie the impression I also had was Moore was claiming that the saudis were given special treatment and flew all over while nobody else was flying.. But, he didn't say that. So, there you go, ignore anything not stated as fact and make sure you understand anything that is stated as fact.

[Faded]

Where's Abu-Graib torture when you really need it?

Unfortunately, In Sept, those techniques were still being improved upon in the local college Fraternities (i.e. Tea-bagging, elephant walks, and other "too many drunk men locked up alone late at night" pranks)

To be honest, I couldn't find a lie in the movie. Now, what is _implied_ is far different.

Quite quite true. But unfortunately, the majority of the "documentary" is "implications", and very few STATED facts. And it only takes the subtle suggestion of something to get the typical American fired up about something, and taking it as truth.

oh yeah and thanks for the links, vvx and Socratesabroad.

[kotatsuneko]

moore's trailerpark web wannabe?

http://pages.infinit.net/noc/pentagon.swf

[Big Booger]

[Bongo]

Where's Abu-Graib torture when you really need it?

Unfortunately, In Sept, those techniques were still being improved upon in the local college Fraternities (i.e. Tea-bagging, elephant walks, and other "too many drunk men locked up alone late at night" pranks)

To be honest, I couldn't find a lie in the movie. Now, what is _implied_ is far different.

Quite quite true. But unfortunately, the majority of the "documentary" is "implications", and very few STATED facts. And it only takes the subtle suggestion of something to get the typical American fired up about something, and taking it as truth.


oh yeah and thanks for the links, vvx and Socratesabroad.

You mean subtle suggestion like, non existent WMDs combined with non existent uranium purchases & 45 minute attack capability?
Those "subtle suggestions" sure got the US public fired up enough to kill 20,000 people in Iraq, many of which were innocent women and children.

[Faded]

Same thing is basically happening today. I do recall the US giving quite a bit to the Kurds in the North... weapons, tanks, ammo, night vision goggles, and so on...

Ahhh but as I recall,, the Kurds were getting "culled" by Saddam's forces and we were supplying them so they could "defend themselves" (and fuck up Saddam in the process)

You mean subtle suggestion like, non existent WMDs combined with non existent uranium purchases & 45 minute attack capability?

Actually I don't believe they were subtle suggestions, as they were stated as fact (incorrect facts, but not suggestions).

Those "subtle suggestions" sure got the US public fired up enough to kill 20,000 people in Iraq, many of which were innocent women and children.

Yup they did, even the "heaven sent" John Kerry
And again I ask you, how many of those innocent women and children were killed in the past 13 years? How many mass graves were filled in that time. And how many of those Women and children have been killed by terrorists during the "occupation" and not the US, but by fellow Iragi's and other Arab "freedom fighters"????

I'm in no way saying that I buy into the reasons the US went in there, I'm just saying it's about time SOMEBODY did something. Discussions and sanctions were only hurting those same innocent civilians, while doing nothing to those in power. Just look at N. Korea, you saying all the economic sanctions and discussions are in anyway affecting the leadership while the people starve to death?????
(*BTW this is in no way a call to invade N.Korea, THAT would be a major mistake. Now assasignation, that has some possiblities, though too many to take out to be effective)

[Buraku]

still haven't seen it,
but liked his other movie B-F-C nice commentary on gun-crime and senseless juvenille deaths due to firearms

[GuyJean]