Dead Ball (JPN Baseball Thread)

[Greji]

White Sox beat Houston 7-5 in 14 innings to go up 3-0.

I forget where the White Sox are from Taro, could you refresh my memory?

[Blah Pete]

Chiba Lotte Marines win the Japan Series 10-1, 10-0, 10-1, 3-2 (OK, the last game was close).
This has to be the worst ass kicking in the history of the series.
Bobby Valentine should win manager of the year easily, maybe the decade.

The announcers were confused when they discussed Valentines' philosophy of fun baseball and to have a good time in the series. Yakyu is supposed to be kurosii, gambare, etc...

[FG Lurker]

Yeah, the Tigers got their asses kicked. How could a team do so well all year and fail so miserably at the end? 33-4 overall score... Fuck that is pathetic.

Meh, 'tis only a game, and one I follow loosely at most.

[Greji]

It never fails to amaze me how conveniently the J-press (actually most of the MSM) forgets selected events so easily. Do you recall when Bobby got sacked as the Lotte manager after bringing them out of the cellar and finishing second in the league. He got in a battle with management and was summarily dismissed with the usual "he doesn't understand Japanese Baseball"! Bobby went back and for Lotte it was "dive, dive, dive" as they raced back to the bilges. But, of course, Japanese baseball is unique!

You hear nothing of that now. I wonder why?
hehehe

[Greji]

White Sox 1-0. Win the series for the first time in 88 years. Move over Hanshin, Houston wants to join you!

(Taro, don't the white Sox come from that place that originates the Illinois river sewer system?)

[gaijinzilla]

Hanshin's bats were silent and the pitching was horrendous because of that lay-off waiting for the winner of the PL play-offs. More than any other sport, timing really is important in baseball, escpecially with regards to hitting.Doesn't matter how much you practice...nothing can come close to simulating a real game. Still, kudos to Bobby Valentine and Lotte. they came into the series as the hot team and played like it. Maybe the Central League should institute such a play-off system (I hope not---I wish they'd scrap the existing one in the Pacific League. Or both leagues can expand, to two divisions each, then have a play-off series between each divisional winner, then the Japan Series)

[canman]

How can you expect Hanshin to play well after a 20 day lay off. THe Central league needs a playoff just like the Pacific league does. But what bugs me was that I was watching NHK and they had some esteemed OB on giving his opinion, which was he thought it unfair that Lotte had won and that The Hawks weren't the team representing the Pacific league. Who the hell cares. Lotte won fair and square. They beat the Hawks, who only had a short lay off. If you look at MLB, other than this year and the Chisox, the past three winners have all been wild card teams. I say all the better. They already have a system to reward the top team in the Pacific league, home field advantage, and some strange rule if they have more than a ten game lead they only need to win two games in the league championship series. What more do they need. I like the Atlanta Braves, but every year they win the National League East and then bow out in the division series. So goes life. You don't hear people saying the system must be changed for Atlanta.
On to MLB, Phil Garner must be one of the luckiest or most incompetent managers of all time. How they got to the World series is beyond me, with his terrible managing. I know it was the pitchers like Roy Oswalt and Petite and Clemens, but this series was so badly managed they had to lose. Although I still don't like Ozzie Guillan, not sure why.

[gaijinzilla]

Even the Hawks (of Soft Bank) fell afoul of having to wait (not so much like Hanshin did) for the winner of the first round of play-offs. But that's the second year in a row that has happend to them. I'm not a big fan of the "wild card" in MLB, either, as I think that only the division winners should be in post-season play (old fashioned I guess), but if you're going to have such a system then have it for both leagues. To make it more equitable I say have 8 teams in each league, two divisions in each league, with only the division winners meeting each other. I know 16 teams aren't feasible in Japanese baseball...but they could be. (wishful thinking on my part)

About MLB....there's something about Ozzie Guillen which gets on my nerves too, but I can't pinpoint to what it is. However, it's nothing compared to the annoyance I get from the listening to the White Sox TV play-by-play men (during the regular season games shown on the tube here)---I have to turn the volume off.

[canman]

They do have to be one of the worst duos out there. I hate that call they have" put it on the board yeeeeeeesssss". I have to say I sometimes don't like Rick Sutcliffe, but boy oh boy he calls them as he sees them, and doesn't pull any punches. Once in a while he will be very kind in his interpretation, but about the umpires moving strike zone, and today Lance Berkman not even sliding, he nailed it on the head. Of course NHK again decided to use its own feed so a lot of the time we never did get to see the replay or what they were talking about, but I won't complain to loud as we did get to see the games, and I'm thankful for that.
So now when does the series between Lotte and the White Sox begin to find out who the real world champion is. I still believe this spring world cup of baseball is going to fail. November would be the best time to play.

[IkemenTommy]

The reason why they don't have small divisions is because there are not a lot of teams to split up the leagues.

[GuyJean]

I have to say I sometimes don't like Rick Sutcliffe, but boy oh boy he calls them as he sees them, and doesn't pull any punches. Once in a while he will be very kind in his interpretation, but about the umpires moving strike zone, and today Lance Berkman not even sliding, he nailed it on the head.

I used to hate his casting, but for some reason, I've liked him the past few years.. Sometimes he brings up shit I never considered..

GJ

[Captain Japan]

I have to say I sometimes don't like Rick Sutcliffe, but boy oh boy he calls them as he sees them, and doesn't pull any punches. Once in a while he will be very kind in his interpretation, but about the umpires moving strike zone, and today Lance Berkman not even sliding, he nailed it on the head.

I used to hate his casting, but for some reason, I've liked him the past few years.. Sometimes he brings up shit I never considered..

GJ

I think a lot of people start to think Sutcliffe is acceptable after listening to Tim McCarver for five minutes.

Sutcliffe has annoyed me for years. And the reason is simple - it's that nasal voice. It sounds like he's whining all the time. But I will admit that during the playoffs this year I never turned the sound off.

"Hawk" Harrelson is the announcer for the ChiSox. Of course he's not good. But sometimes I think he's hilarious. I still remember his cheering last year to get Timo Perez around to score the winning run from first in extra innings. "Go Timo, go!! Go Timo, go!!..." I wish I could find an Mp3 of that.

[Captain Japan]

Len Kasper and "Hawk" Harrelson...

[Blah Pete]

Did anyone else see the NHK special on Bobby Valentine last night? It was on at about 8:00.
One of the main points was that he researches the hitters and pitchers much more than is done in J-ball. They even mentioned he brought over one guy just to compile the data.

[Greji]

Did anyone else see the NHK special on Bobby Valentine last night? It was on at about 8:00.
One of the main points was that he researches the hitters and pitchers much more than is done in J-ball. They even mentioned he brought over one guy just to compile the data.

I saw that and it is completely untrue! My take was it was their way to explain how a FG manager could win! There was nothing about Bobby that was remotely exotic when they fired him. He had taken a team out of the cellar and finished second. But he made the mistake of telling Hiraoka (who the media had made into somewhat of an idol) and some of Lotte's execs they were doing it wrong if they wanted to win. It was around the bubble and if you recall, they had the big head, even more than today and the result was that Bobby was fired with Lotte returning to the cellar.

Organized baseball in Japan amasses huge amounts of data. Universities even. They have the shinjins and second year students as well as the student managers compiling this. The pros have complete sections to do this. The scouting section of each team, the "henshubu" not only collects info for potential players, it is also compiled to be used as a base for the same people if they later face them in game situations.

There are a lot of atheletes who besides being blessed with the God-given talent to play at the pro level, are also quite intelligent and need less coaching. But, on the other hand you have a lot that also have the ball ability, but the intelligence quota of a shrub, requiring frequent assistance in in such difficult activities as locating their arse.

You cannot have two systems for them during a game, therefore, the signals are, in almost all situations, given from the bench. Watch the catchers who are always given the credit for calling the game for the pitcher and setting the defense. Before each pitch and after each play, they will take their signals from the bench, before relaying them to the field and giving the pitch sign to the pitcher.

They have two and in some case three players, or coaches (even in the university level) assigned to provided data from "the book" for the signals and also to monitor the signals given by the other teams to see if they can steal them.

None of this is ever reported as it would take away from the alleged tokushu of Nippon Yakyu that they want to produce for the fans, but, nonetheless, it is still there and I just love it when someone like Bobby comes in and throws a monkey wrench into their make-believe world.

Just my threesen worth

[IkemenTommy]

You gotta give that guy, Valentine, some credit for turning a piss poor team like Lotte into a national champ. Of course.. if he was a jap, then he would get the right credit he truly deserves but all I can say to Valentine is TIJ

[canman]

Just watching NHK and they said that weird kick, or double kick and stop in the middle of the pitchers delivery was an illegal move. But what I can't understand is that Uehara of the Giants holding his glove in front of his face is also illegal. A lot of major league pitchers do that. But they are getting ready for the world cup of baseball and fear that the US umpires will keep calling balks everytime they lift there leg and then stop the motion. It must be more fluid, not so herky jerky.

[Kuang_Grade]

The Washington Post picks up on the Bobby Bandwagon...Not much new but some good quotes.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/27/AR2005112700784_pf.html

Softer Take on Hardball Pays Off in Japan
U.S. Manager's Style Yields Winning Team And Social Debate
By Anthony Faiola
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, November 28, 2005; A11

TOKYO -- You can see it in the $13 six-packs of Bobby Valentine Beer being snapped up at Japanese ballparks. In the scores of magazines with Valentine's winsome mug on the cover. In the ticker-tape parade held last week, when 240,000 fans poured into the streets to toast him and the long-losing baseball team he just coached to its first Japan Series title in more than 30 years.

It's as clear as a game-winning homer in the bottom of the ninth: Three years after being unceremoniously sacked by the New York Mets, Bobby is getting his valentine. Japan is showin' him the love.

"Oh, man, this is just a great feeling," he said with an aw-shucks grin. In his office after a tribute of Japanese dancing and drumming for Valentine and the Chiba Lotte Marines at their packed stadium in a blue-collar suburb of Tokyo, he quipped, "I'm just getting started."

In fact, Valentine's golden touch has already triggered something of a social earthquake in Japan -- mostly because his uncanny success with the Marines has been credited to his decidedly un-Japanese management style. The custom of bosses and teachers berating their charges in front of others for mistakes -- and sometimes doling out physical abuse -- is deeply ingrained in Japanese society. That is gradually changing, but excelling at work remains something that does not typically merit praise.

That is particularly true in Japanese baseball, where even pro coaches are known to strike rookies so hard their batting helmets break or to make them submit to often humiliating "mental training." This summer, a high school coach in western Japan repeatedly made his players run naked around the field during night practices to promote mental toughness.

But Valentine took the opposite approach, building players' self-esteem through gentler tactics and eventually turning a club with no noted sluggers into national champs. He changed lineups no less than 120 times -- far more than normal here -- in part to give all his players more chances at bat. He reprimanded them for errors only in private and lavished them with public praise after good games. He issued orders for all players to sign autographs at every game "to make them start believing in themselves, to help them discover the baseball star waiting to come out in each and every one of them," Valentine said. "And you know what? They did."

"He was such a different type of manager for us," said Marines pitcher Tomohiro Kuroki, 31. "He pulled out our hidden potential, made us confident in ourselves. And he taught me one word in English -- 'great!' "

The success of the "Bobby Way" is being hailed by many here as a home run for a growing movement to curb the Japanese tradition of harsh management. Hiroshi Miyata, president of Nippon Metal Industry Co., called on corporate Japan in a newspaper editorial last week to start "treating our employees in the same way that Bobby does." The current and former managers of three of Japan's top baseball teams offered rare praise for Valentine's methods, suggesting that the notion of severe training should be reexamined in the wake of the once-lowly Marines' victory.

This month, the Tokyo-based Macro Mill research company conducted a survey of Japanese job hunters, asking them to list their ideal boss. Valentine was the only foreigner in the top 10.

"Bobby is a role model for Japan," said Naoki Fujiya, a 36-year-old house painter who waited hours in line to catch a glimpse of Valentine and the Marines at last week's parade. Fujiya said his boss had hit him several times for making errors. "But I think we all see now that you can do your best even when you treat the people who work for you with respect," he said. "I wish Bobby was my boss."

Anger at harsh management tactics boiled into a national debate in April, following a West Japan Railway crash near Osaka in which 107 people died. The train's 23-year-old driver was believed to have been in a panic because he was running behind schedule, exceeding safe speed limits in an attempt to make up time.

Public outrage ensued after company employees began to speak out. A group of employees filed a lawsuit against the company this month in which one train driver said he was forced to undergo 71 days of "reeducation" -- including cleaning trains and writing essays reflecting on his mistake -- after overshooting a train platform by two yards. Another driver, who was subjected to reeducation after departing a station 50 seconds late, committed suicide during his ordeal.

Some have questioned whether the Japanese would perform successfully under alternative management methods. The 55-year-old Valentine, still muscular from daily workouts and with traces of gray in his dusty brown hair, put those arguments to rest this year.

Valentine, who played in the major leagues from 1969 to 1979 and later managed the Texas Rangers for nearly eight seasons, first coached the Chiba Lotte Marines in 1995, leaving after one season because of disputes with the general manager. He took over the New York Mets in 1996 and led them to the World Series in 2000, where they lost to the Yankees in five games. After struggling with the Mets in 2002, Valentine was fired -- then quickly recruited to come back to Japan for the Marines' 2004 season.

He turned around a team that hadn't won the Japan Series since 1974 by changing the club culture to emphasize confidence-building. Outfielder Saburo Omura, for example, was once expected to be Japan's next great baseball star. But he never reached those heights and was batting at the bottom of the lineup when Valentine showed up. Valentine left him there for the 2004 season, but on Aug. 13 he suddenly moved the 29-year-old up to fourth -- the cleanup spot reserved for only the best players.

"I tried to take the pressure off him," Valentine said. "I told him, 'You're batting fourth today, and even if you strike out, you'll be back in third or fourth tomorrow, and the next day, and the next day.' And you know what? He went out and hit a home run that first day."

After batting .256 in 2004, Omura had a stellar season this year, batting .313 and earning a Gold Glove award for his fielding.

Valentine also built confidence by connecting the team to its fans. He lowered the fence over the dugout then had a gate put in the fence so fans could mingle with players. He kept the windows of his office at the Chiba stadium open, often breaking away from paperwork to sign balls for young fans.

After Valentine took over, the Marines' attendance tripled -- to 1.3 million spectators this year. The team now enjoys the highest proportion of ticket sales among women and children in Japan's major leagues. "The tradition in Japanese baseball has been for coaches to stand aloof, arms folded, above the fray of the players and the fans," said Robert Whiting, author of "The Samurai Way of Baseball." "Bobby didn't do that. And he still took the team all the way."

Valentine still frets about how to keep Japanese players from following their successful peers into the American major leagues. He is leading by example. Courted in recent months by the Los Angeles Dodgers and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, he has chosen instead to sign a new three-year, $10.5 million contract with the Marines.

"We've got great baseball, great players and great fans," Valentine said. "What more could I want?"

[AssKissinger]

Ichiro to play for Japan in World Cup
By Bob Finnigan

Seattle Times staff reporter

Ichiro will play for Japan in the World Baseball Classic.

After declining to comment for months on his status for the tournament, commonly referred to as the World Cup, the Mariners right fielder accepted an invitation last week to play for his country.

In a visit home, during which Ichiro also spent weeks filming a dramatic role for January's three-part series of the popular Japanese detective show "Furuhata Ninzaburo," he met with Sadaharu Oh, who will manage Japan's team.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002657084_ichiro01.html

[AssKissinger]

I never thought I'd root for Japan over America but I'll root for a team with Ichiro over a team with Shrunken Balls Bonds any day.

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ap-wbc-bonds&prov=ap&type=lgns

I hope he tweeks his knee so bad it kills him.

[Mulboyne]

[503]

I wonder if Steinbrenner has anything to do with Matsui's decision. The players are probably on lockdown for not winning a Pennant. I heard Jeter hasn't talked to his momma in months.

[GuyJean]

What is Ichirto thinking? He's in one of those cheesy TV dramas on Fuji TV right now; Furuhata-Ninzaburo..
http://www.jdorama.com/drama.89.htm

Doesn't he have some clause in his contract with the M's forbidding him from participating in anything that may cause injury to his career?

Yuck..

GJ

[Mulboyne]

What is Ichirto thinking? He's in one of those cheesy TV dramas on Fuji TV right now]http://www.jdorama.com/drama.89.htm[/url]

The way they handled his "arrest" was very cute - they ran a "Breaking News Flash" on the screen as the scene played out.

[Mulboyne]

[Mulboyne]

[AssKissinger]

I just watched Japan vs USA in the World Baseball Classic and it
was a great game. America snuck by by the skin of their teeth
(and a bad call). Oh was managing the J-squad and did a great job.
Watching this game just futhers my suspicions that yakyu is right
on par with MLB. We had A-Rod and Chipper Jones and they had Ichiro
but not Matsui.

[GuyJean]

America snuck by by the skin of their teeth
(and a bad call).

It should be 'America snuck by with a bad call (and by the skin of their teeth)'.. ]http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?p=119869#post119869[/url]

GJ

[Captain Japan]

[Mulboyne]

Asahi: Whiting hits back at baseball critic

Best-selling author Robert Whiting took the opportunity last weekend to strike back at one of his critics at an international baseball conference put on by Michigan State University's Asian Studies Center. Whiting, the author of "The Chrysanthemum and the Bat," "You Gotta Have Wa" and "The Meaning of Ichiro," took exception to some of the views held by Yale anthropology professor William Kelly, who was also in attendance at the conference billed as "Baseball and Besuboru: Passion and Diplomacy Between the Baselines." "Finally, I would like to say something about the voluminous work of professor Kelly, the highly regarded Yale anthropologist, since he has said so much about mine," Whiting said toward the end of his presentation. "And I will say it in the same spirit of collegial esteem with which he has made his remarks about me." Whiting said that while he respected Kelly's work, "I think that some of his interpretations are highly questionable and undermine Americans' understanding of the game in Japan."

Whiting started out by saying he strongly disagreed with Kelly's assertion that former Yomiuri Giants manager Tetsuharu Kawakami stressed individualism in his management style, adding: "To claim that the Machiavellian Kawakami stressed individual achievement is to stand the term on its head. Kawakami was famous for saying that individualism would destroy a team, that lone wolves were a cancer in any organization, and demanded his players all train the same way with the same intensity." Whiting, who says Kelly has criticized his writing in several articles and papers published over the past few years, then proceeded to bring up an article Kelly authored in 2002 concerning the intentional walks given to Hanshin Tigers slugger Randy Bass as he closed in on Sadaharu Oh's Japanese single-season home-run record of 55 in the 1985 season. Kelly's article was in part a response to a New York Times headline he took exception to, "Japanese Protect Oh's Record."

Much was made of the fact that Bass was intentionally walked four times (it would have been five, but Bass lunged across the batter's box to hit a single in one at-bat) in the final game of the season against the Oh-managed Giants as he sat on 54 homers. Several Japanese baseball players and officials--including the league commissioner and some from Bass' own organization--said at the time that they simply did not want to see a foreign player break Oh's record. That Bass was a victim of racial discrimination and/or Japanese protectionism is a view widely held by Whiting and many other journalists.

In Kelly's paper published by the National Geographical Society, "Baseball in Japan: The National Game Beyond National Character," he contends that, contrary to popular belief, Bass was pitched around as a matter of strategy as the Giants attempted to salvage a little pride by beating their Central League rivals, who would go on to win the Japan Series that year, in the final game of the season. "With the Giants desperate for a victory, it was an obvious strategy for them to pitch around the Tigers' most potent hitter," wrote Kelly. According to Whiting, that view was preposterous, and he proceeded to lay out his case against Kelly's theory. Whiting pointed out the fact that the men hitting after Bass in the Hanshin lineup that season were both hitting .300 or better with 75 home runs and 209 RBIs between them.

"The 1985 Hanshin Tigers had perhaps the most potent batting lineup in the history of the Japanese game," Whiting proclaimed. "Bass hit in the third slot. Batting fourth was third baseman Masayuki Kakefu, who hit 40 home runs with 108 RBIs and had a batting average of .300. Hitting fifth was second baseman Akinobu Okada with 35 homers, 101 RBIs and a .342 average. Putting Bass on base with such dangerous hitters coming up was tantamount to throwing the game." Whiting went on to say that the intentional walks given to Bass went against traditionally accepted baseball strategy on many different fronts, such as the commonly held notion of not putting the potential tying run on base.

"In the first inning of the then-scoreless game, Bass came up with one out and a runner on first, only to be walked on four straight pitches, a violation of the baseball canon, which says never put the lead run in scoring position," observed Whiting. "Next, Bass led off the fourth inning, with the Tigers trailing 1-0, and was walked intentionally again, this time in violation of the baseball canon that says do not put the tying run on base. In the sixth inning, Bass came up to bat again with a runner on first, none out, and the Tigers still trailing 1-0. Incredibly, Giants starter Masaki Saito, a young phenom who was leading the team in wins, tried to walk him for a third consecutive time. Bass threw his bat at a pitch well out of the strike zone and hit a fluke single to left. Kakefu then singled and the Tigers went on to score seven runs. Bass came up for his second at-bat of the inning with another runner on first base and was walked yet again intentionally. In the eighth inning, he was given a fourth intentional pass--in this instance with runners on first and second and the Tigers leading 7-2. Kakefu singled and the Tigers extended the lead to 10-2."

Kelly, who is currently in the process of finishing a book on the Hanshin Tigers, chose not to address the issue when he later gave his presentation. Also attending the conference were Robert Fitts, who is working on his third book on Japanese baseball; Peter Bjarkman, who has written more than 30 books on sports history and is widely considered one of the world's foremost experts on Cuban baseball; Sayuri Guthrie Shimizu, an associate professor of American history at Michigan State University; and myself, Rob Smaal, who was on hand to show a documentary on Japanese-American baseball pioneer Wally Yonamine.