Dell Laptop of MacBook? Hrm...

[aquamarine]

Well it's coming up to the time again when I'm leaving Canuckville and touching down for good in Japanaland. With this, I'll be selling my laptop and my desktop as pakages and going to be in the market for a new system (rather, a new laptop). I'm interested in something 15 inches, not much bigger if I can find it as it will be traveling with me. Here is what I WANT it to do..

-Run CS4
-Run Adobe Lightroom
-Run Left4Dead

That's IT. The first two parts are working just fine on the laptop I currently have (Acer 4720 series) however I can do nearly no gaming on it short of World of Warcraft. I can't even run Day Of Defeat Source, let alone Left4Dead at anything higher than 2 frames per second.

A buddy who is a devout Mac fan has suggested that I look into buying a MacBook or MacBook Pro. Interesting ideas as I had never owned one myself, but I'm just not entirely sure and worried about the learning curve. I think it's nifty that I can still run Windows on it using BootCamp. My buddies in Japan are currently running Mac and although it looks appealing, I'm trying to justify the $2000 price tag over something else like that Dell XPS for $500 less. Apparently a buddy of mine can get a 15% discount from Mac which is certainly nice, but I'm still not convinced fully yet.

What would you folks do? What are your opinions? I was looking as well at the Dell 15" XPS and wondering if the basic MacBook (not Pro) would be equal in power for around the same price, and more importantly, if the MacBook can run Left4Dead on low to medium settings.

Help? Anybody? PLEASE????? I only have two months left in the country, so I need to figure this stuff our ASAP. Thanks folks.

-Aqua/Chris/Pozzy/Fozzy

[wuchan]

Well it's coming up to the time again when I'm leaving Canuckville and touching down for good in Japanaland. With this, I'll be selling my laptop and my desktop as pakages and going to be in the market for a new system (rather, a new laptop). I'm interested in something 15 inches, not much bigger if I can find it as it will be traveling with me. Here is what I WANT it to do..

-Run CS4
-Run Adobe Lightroom
-Run Left4Dead

That's IT. The first two parts are working just fine on the laptop I currently have (Acer 4720 series) however I can do nearly no gaming on it short of World of Warcraft. I can't even run Day Of Defeat Source, let alone Left4Dead at anything higher than 2 frames per second.

A buddy who is a devout Mac fan has suggested that I look into buying a MacBook or MacBook Pro. Interesting ideas as I had never owned one myself, but I'm just not entirely sure and worried about the learning curve. I think it's nifty that I can still run Windows on it using BootCamp. My buddies in Japan are currently running Mac and although it looks appealing, I'm trying to justify the $2000 price tag over something else like that Dell XPS for $500 less. Apparently a buddy of mine can get a 15% discount from Mac which is certainly nice, but I'm still not convinced fully yet.

What would you folks do? What are your opinions? I was looking as well at the Dell 15" XPS and wondering if the basic MacBook (not Pro) would be equal in power for around the same price, and more importantly, if the MacBook can run Left4Dead on low to medium settings.

Help? Anybody? PLEASE????? I only have two months left in the country, so I need to figure this stuff our ASAP. Thanks folks.

-Aqua/Chris/Pozzy/Fozzy

If you want to play left 4 dead on a macbook you have to set up a dual boot and install windows.

[aquamarine]

Ahh, I had thought that STEAM had already made a Mac-compatible version of Left4Dead. Bugger... well I know about the dual boot thing using BootCamp. I wouldn't mind that at all, at least I could still keep and use all of my software that I've already purchased.

[pheyton]

I love my Macbook pro and I love building my PCs, but when I want something to run right with no problems, I always use the Mac.

[FG Lurker]

I love my Macbook pro and I love building my PCs, but when I want something to run right with no problems, I always use the Mac.

If you bought high-quality PCs and didn't fill them full of crap then the PC would run fine too. Apple's biggest advantage is that they don't let unskilled people monkey with their hardware too much.

[FG Lurker]

Aqua,

I bought a Macbook Pro 15" in Nov 2007 and the switch from Windows was a nightmare. If you're a light user who basically works with the mouse and doesn't have much in the way of custom software then it will probably be okay. If you're someone who has been using computers for long, rely heavily on keyboard shortcuts, and have a lot of very useful custom utilities then switching to a Mac will drive you batshit-crazy. Switching with a definite reason in mind (and a plan) isn't a bad thing. Switching for the sake of switching (as I found out the hard way) is most definitely a waste of time, effort, and money.

Personally I would look at the Lenovo machines and see if one fits your needs. I find they are much better made than the plastic-fantastic Dell stuff, but perhaps Dell has improved.

My next upgrade will be next year. I'm currently debating a return to a desktop/notebook combo or if I should continue with a single machine. Definite advantages to both, it's a tough decision.

[American Oyaji]

Personally I would look at the Lenovo machines and see if one fits your needs. I find they are much better made than the plastic-fantastic Dell stuff, but perhaps Dell has improved.

Dell's quality is getting worse. I deal with Dell laptops every day and we get more broken Dells than we do Lenovos.

[YT]Z_x2Np_ZLJ4[/YT]

[FG Lurker]

Dell's quality is getting worse. I deal with Dell laptops every day and we get more broken Dells than we do Lenovos.

I'm not sure that Dell is getting worse. The problem is that a lot of companies buy Dell's bottom end stuff that is really plastic-fantastic crap. Some of their higher end products are not quite as bad, but I'd still go for Lenovo myself.

[YT]Z_x2Np_ZLJ4[/YT]

The lack of AV software installed on most Macs is not a good thing. It's important to remember that the Titanic was unsinkable.

[wuchan]

I'm not sure that Dell is getting worse. The problem is that a lot of companies buy Dell's bottom end stuff that is really plastic-fantastic crap. Some of their higher end products are not quite as bad, but I'd still go for Lenovo myself.


The lack of AV software installed on most Macs is not a good thing. It's important to remember that the Titanic was unsinkable.

You also have to remember that we are in J-land. The technologically advanced country that is forever stuck on old hard/software because they are Micro$ofts bitch.



OS X does have it's issues but the bigger problem here is that no one, and i mean NO ONE, writes J-software for mac.

[waruta]

You could always buy a case, decent MB and 4gb of corsair/ocz/whatever ever you prefer ram and overclock it with a decent Nvidia 8800/9800GT or ATI4770 graphics card and still get a very reasonable frame rate. The new ATI card are very overclockable and at a good price too.

I have been using Corsair RAM running @ 4-3-3-9 @ 800 MHz with no issue, plus my Core 2 Quad on air has been ticking away happily @ 3.2GHz (stock 2.4) with air cooling. If you only want to run PS and one single game, my advice would be either go with the Mac route or if you want to go IBM/PC, then an overclocked Pentium Dual Core (very overclockable) with a decent MB and decent amount of RAM and a mid-entry range graphics card will do you just fine.

That beingt said, I'm still trying to reach 60fps with Crysis on an SLI 8800GT overclocked setup. Let me know how it goes with your search/purchase.

[FG Lurker]

You also have to remember that we are in J-land. The technologically advanced country that is forever stuck on old hard/software because they are Micro$ofts bitch.

OS X does have it's issues but the bigger problem here is that no one, and i mean NO ONE, writes J-software for mac.

I don't have recent numbers but I know that in the past Apple had a higher percentage of Macs in the Japanese market than they had anywhere else, and it was the 2nd largest market by numbers after the US.

[FG Lurker]

[overclocked Frankenstein machine details removed]

Machines like this are a major reason that people say Windows is "unstable".

[wuchan]

I don't have recent numbers but I know that in the past Apple had a higher percentage of Macs in the Japanese market than they had anywhere else, and it was the 2nd largest market by numbers after the US.

We all know japan is #2 in the world. On ground level japan is way behind the west on IT support and software.

I am not saying that mac is the best, just that j-land is stuck in the past. About three years in the past.

[FG Lurker]

I am not saying that mac is the best, just that j-land is stuck in the past. About three years in the past.

Sure, there is a translation lag, like with movies only longer.

[waruta]

Machines like this are a major reason that people say Windows is "unstable".

You want stable? Run Linux or Unix. Overclocking doesn't necessarily mean a machine is unstable, only to what level you decide to take it to. Many machines that are overclocked are stable 24/7 as long as the OS doesn't decide to display the blue screen of death. If you do decide to run the chip over the stock speed I would recommend CoreTemp, SpeedFan and CPU-Z for monitoring temps and whatnot and running Prime95 or OCCT for at least 24-48 hours to make sure your settings are stable @ 100% load. Memtest for the RAM also helps, usually I run a 24 hour cycle.

People that are hesitant to take advantage of the underclocked CPU speed of Intel chips don't really own their hardware. Not to say that everyone should overclock everything and anything they own, but for a price/performance basis, you can't beat a 6,500 yen chip (Pentium Dual Core) that overclocks with minimal tweaking to the performance level of a Core 2 Duo that still runs stable on air cooling.

If you truly, truly want something that never ever crashes nor needs updates every month then run Linux, that is, if you can handle the setup and lack of support for windows programs.

As to FG Lurker, I resent the comment that all overclocked machines are unstable, its not like a bunch of cowboys are out to get the highest frequency they can, some people make do with what they can afford and try and make the best of it. We do however use these machines on a daily basis and test them 100% so that they may perform without fail, 100% of the time.

[aquamarine]

You could always buy a case

I didn't know I could just buy laptop cases and put parts together. In fact, I've never seen a home-built laptop myself.

Where would I go to do this, and how much more difficult would it be to install the screen, have a custom-made keyboard (I would assume I'd need to find on that fits perfectly), trackpad, and then hook all that shit up (and more) to some tiny little motherboard. Sounds like an awful lot of trouble considering I only half-know how to put together a tower, let alone figure out how to completely assemble a laptop.

[FG Lurker]

You want stable? Run Linux or Unix.

I run BSD on my firewalls and Linux on one of my file servers. Database server and the other file server run on Windows due to specific needs. Client machines run Windows due to specific needs.

Overclocking doesn't necessarily mean a machine is unstable, only to what level you decide to take it to.

Overclocking is a hobby. It's fine for hobbiests. It has no place in a serious environment.

Many machines that are overclocked are stable 24/7 as long as the OS doesn't decide to display the blue screen of death.

NT-based OSes (2K, XP, 2K3, 2K8, Vista, Win7) don't display BSODs for no reason. This isn't Win3.x or 9x. The vast majority of BSODs are caused by hardware problems or poorly written drivers. Overclocking by its nature pushes hardware to its limits which makes these sorts of problems more likely to happen. This is why Apple has an advantage over the PC world -- the core hardware and drivers are more tightly controlled and thus less likely to cause problems. Want to see a generally unstable Mac that crashes frequently? Load it full of cheap-ass 3rd party peripherals. Better yet, run a Hackintosh.

People that are hesitant to take advantage of the underclocked CPU speed of Intel chips don't really own their hardware. Not to say that everyone should overclock everything and anything they own, but for a price/performance basis, you can't beat a 6,500 yen chip (Pentium Dual Core) that overclocks with minimal tweaking to the performance level of a Core 2 Duo that still runs stable on air cooling.

Again, as a hobby (everyone needs one, mine is photography) this isn't a bad thing. I used to play the same game and have had many interestingly overclocked machines. The problem though is that time really does equal money and while spending hours custom building and tweaking a machine may be fun it is *not* free. The higher potential for mysterious problems also costs and in the end it just isn't worth it for anyone except maybe a starving student.

If you truly, truly want something that never ever crashes nor needs updates every month then run Linux, that is, if you can handle the setup and lack of support for windows programs.

*nix systems generally need about the same number of updates as Windows systems do, if you look at the overall system. Administrating *nix systems is generally more time consuming than Windows too, and certainly requires a higher level of skill. There are also advantages that make this worthwhile though, especially in server and firewall environments.

[waruta]

I didn't know I could just buy laptop cases and put parts together. In fact, I've never seen a home-built laptop myself.

Where would I go to do this, and how much more difficult would it be to install the screen, have a custom-made keyboard (I would assume I'd need to find on that fits perfectly), trackpad, and then hook all that shit up (and more) to some tiny little motherboard. Sounds like an awful lot of trouble considering I only half-know how to put together a tower, let alone figure out how to completely assemble a laptop.

Between a Dell and Mac, the Mac is better at graphics and design-related work but since both of them are now Intel based chips, I guess it would all come down to preference between a windows or mac. Dells run kind of hot though, especially with a semi-decent graphics card and core2duo on board. They also are kind of heavy with the long-life batteries. If you plan to be moving around a lot, get a laptop. If not, then a desktop is waay cheaper for the same kind of performance.

[waruta]

Overclocking is a hobby. It's fine for hobbiests. It has no place in a serious environment.

I concur. I agree with most if not all your statements but if the guy really wants a "stable" (as stable as a pc can be) then go and buy a Mac. I personally am running XP x64 but lack of support for games/printers etc made me bite the bullet and downgrade.

Macs seem kind of pricey to me but then again I guess their performance and ease of use is what you pay for. Sometime in the future I might get a Mac and see what all the fuss is about...

[alicia454]

OS X does have it's issues but the bigger problem here is that no one, and i mean NO ONE, writes J-software for mac.

As a cross platform developer, I've used and writen software for Windows, MacOSX, Linux, *BSD, Solaris, WinCE/PocketPC/WinMobile, µ]+[Space] keyboard shortcut to quickly switch between English and Japanese input methods while typing.

I have done clean MacOS 10.5.* Leopard installs in Japanese, and installed Japanese third party applications including Firefox, without any difficulties. All of the menus, messages, directories/folders, and even program filenames (under Finder) were in pure Japanese. Japanese WinXP & WinVista have less Japanese and more English, that a Japanese user needs to deal with.

[aquamarine]

If you plan to be moving around a lot, get a laptop.

OK, I must have been on drugs when I made my first post, I had sworn I said I wanted a laptop and was selling my tower and current laptop to buy one. Good god, that weed I smoked in grade 9 still hits hard these days, eh? I thought I put in a specific title here too...

But are you saying that I can actually go out, buy various parts such as a laptop case, laptop battery (have it fabricated, I'd guess by what you mentioned) and put together a completely 100% custom-made laptop? Wtf man, why don't more people do that?? Hrm... that's definitely an option for me then! Where abouts can I find the parts to put together a laptop? Please let me know as I think that is exactly what I'll do.

As for the rest of you, thanks for the input. I just found out my buddy works for Mac and is offering me a 15% discount. As soon as the car is sold, I think I'll do some soul-searching and see if I can possibly borrow someone's Mac for a weekend to see how I like it.

[Neo-Rio]

But are you saying that I can actually go out, buy various parts such as a laptop case, laptop battery (have it fabricated, I'd guess by what you mentioned) and put together a completely 100% custom-made laptop? Wtf man, why don't more people do that?? Hrm... that's definitely an option for me then! Where abouts can I find the parts to put together a laptop?

Well, this is an incredibly "hands on" approach, but it IS possible.
The shops in Akiba actually sell DIY base-kits for laptops. Sure, you have to settle for a particular screen size and look of it, but you can actually choose the processor you want and the amount of memory, buy the bits seperately, and put together a laptop THAT way. Really depends on whether you have the time and patience for it.... that AND whether the motherboard on these base kits actually has something with decent graphics support ....

Linux and Unix is great if you're a computer geek, because all the geek applications are covered on that platform. Thing is when you are, say a day trader, and suddenly you discover that your trading application only works on windows, there is no Mac or Linux version, and WINE support is spotty at best - then you realize that Linux isn't a solution for everyone.

[waruta]

OK, I must have been on drugs when I made my first post, I had sworn I said I wanted a laptop and was selling my tower and current laptop to buy one. Good god, that weed I smoked in grade 9 still hits hard these days, eh? I thought I put in a specific title here too...

My bad, yes I must have been having some flashbacks too...I swear they told me that shit would never come back and haunt me.

As for a major-brand laptop, Mac, Dell, Lenovo (formerly IBM) and Toshiba make quite a few good models with excellent after-care support. Dell has been pretty bad in the past with service but now they have wised up and provide some good turn-around times and after-care. I would drop by a local denki-ya (Bic Camera, Yodobashi etc) and try all the laptops there and see what you like. Everyone has their take on what constitutes a good mousepad/trackpad/nipple thingy (IBM) and see what you like, and whether it is within your price range. The easiest I think would be to set a price then see how the competitors fare against your model of choice within your set price range. Good luck and have fun searching.

[thumper]

I used Dell for many years at work and home and liked their PCs. So, two and half years ago when I wanted a new PC, I bought a Dimension 9150. Had nothing but trouble with it from day one. The Chinese-made PSU packed up (duff bearings) and the DVD drive gave trouble. It took two months of inane correspondence with Dell Japan to get it fixed.

I didn't use the Dimension much for the next 18 months because I was overseas. But now that I am using it regularly the damned Chinese-made case fan is giving trouble. I sent Dell Japan clear photos of the 92 x 92 x 38 mm case fan showing the Dell P/N and after three weeks they send me a crap-looking replacement CPU fan (120mm). Now they want to refund the money I paid and start all the paperwork over. Bunch of clowns!

I'll buy a Toshiba laptop the next time because Dell sucks.

[IkemenTommy]

I used Dell for many years at work and home and liked their PCs. So, two and half years ago when I wanted a new PC, I bought a Dimension 9150.

Sorry to hear about your nightmare with the Dell Dementia. The last Dell I owned was the XPS laptop. It was blazing fast at the time, but then it was one hot tamale hot enough to grill some ham and eggs on your lap.

(And along with IBM chinkpads, why do they always have to make them so frickin humongously heavy?)