Japanese Through Manga

[Mulboyne]

[jim katta]

has anybody here used this book? I'm curious to hear a brief review as to whether it's any good or not.

[jim katta]

nevermind, found some reviews on amazon. both were positive...

Fun and easy and useful, April 10, 2005
Reviewer: R. Brown "JapanVisitor.com" (Kyoto)

At last, the melding of two of Japan's greatest exports: manga and the study of the Japanese language. Not exactly at last-others have trod this path before, notably the magazine Mangajin-but in book form Japanese the Manga Way is setting a precedent.

Author Wayne Lammers grew up in Japan and has written a "real manga, real Japanese" text and study aid that will benefit the many students struggling with nihongo. The text begins with basic pronunciation and works its way onwards and upwards, throughout supplemented with topical and humorous selections from Japanese graphic novels and comics.
Even for someone who has spent the better part of ten years studying Japanese, the format in which the material is presented in Japanese the Manga Way is refreshing and easy to understand. Lammers does an excellent job in explaining the use of Japanese particles, the bane of many a student. Another section that merits mention is that on giving and receiving-so crucial to life in Japan-that suddenly set off a lightbulb in this reviewer's often dim brain.
Highly recommended for both beginners and even those with a lot of classroom time under their belts.

A Fun and Easy Way to Learn Japanese in No Time,
February 7, 2005
Reviewer: Chao-Chen (Jack) Lin (Surrey, BC, Canada.)

This book really helps you get used to Japanese through easy Manga stories and words. It's as good as it gets! From now on, you don't have to worry about making mistakes along the way, beacause it's quite entertaining and educational about Japanese langauge and culture.

Sayonara!

[jim katta]

another good, more detailed, review...

http://www.animefringe.com/magazine/2005/04/review/10.php

and here is the author's site. good info to document his cred for creating such a book.

http://homepage.mac.com/wlammers/Main/index.html


hmmm, I looked at a couple of sample pages from the book. I'm not really feeling it. nice for manga heads and visually oriented people though, I guess.

[GargoyleTS]

Hmmm, but its say it's and illustrated guide to grammar and structure. Does it teach Kana/Kanji? Is it even written in Kana/Kanji? If it's all romaji, it may be less than ideal for your purposes (or mine for that matter).

I for one am having difficulty learning all the Kana (okay, ANY Kana), let alone Kanji. Trying to pick it up through self-teaching, but maybe its just my bad study habits. If this (or another entertaining project like it) teachs Kana/Kanji, I would love to find it. Outdated scenarios, or utility scenarios like airport and hotel conversations don't seem to motivate my learning centers.

And dry learning in dictionary/stereo instruction format puts me to sleep with my eyes open. Reading along, everything going in one eye and out the other as it were.

But I like the karaoke at the beginning and end of a lot of import anime. Not for learning what words mean, but for learning pronunciation nuance and getting used to actually using the language like a child tryin to form words.

So any suggestions of books or vids for someone who learns like a fish drinks from entertaining and engaging materials?

That said, I will probably pick this up to learn anyways. But other material would be appreciated too.

[tetsujin gaijin]

I have the book and it's great. It is written in in kana, kanji, furigana and romaji so all the bases are covered. It does not teach you how to read or write Japanese. The main thrust of the book is to teach you grammarr, both polite and and casual speaking.

The book is a wealth of knowledge and is extremely dense in the amount of information. That being said, if you want to learn Japanese with just this book you'll find it overwhelming. It is best used as a reference text while you study Japanese through an actual course.

[cenic]

I've used mangajin (http://www.mangajin.com) before and felt it was well balanced (and is the only reason I would be caught dead reading manga). It provided literal and logical explanations of the dialog. However, I agree, it is merely a supplement to actual academic studies and really should be only used once you have a solid foundation. Least you want to be that 45 year old gaijin that sounds like a 12 year old school girl.

[Charles]

...And dry learning in dictionary/stereo instruction format puts me to sleep with my eyes open. Reading along, everything going in one eye and out the other as it were...

That's how it's supposed to work. My teacher told me that on average, you have to learn and forget something via short-term memory 7 times before it gets stored in long-term memory. So get out there and start forgetting Japanese ASAP!

[GargoyleTS]

No, I don;t want to sound like a 12yo girl. heheh.

I just have hard time learning language in a classroom situation. Immersion would be great, but isn't really an option right now or for three more years at least. I want to get a jump on the classroom because I know I am not gonna do well if I don't.

I failed Latin. Pure study and classroom.

I learned more Spanish hanging out after school than in the classroom.

I honestly was hoping that the Kana and kanji teaching in this would be entertaining enough to engage my imagination. I learn very well when my mind is fully engaged. Teacher's droning shuts me out fast and my mind wanders and I don't learn. It sucks if I get boring teacher's cause I know I am gonna have to find a way to basically educate myself on the subject they teach or I will fail.

So that is what I was looking for here. Sounds like a good book and I will definitely give it and mangajin a shot.

[Charles]

I honestly was hoping that the Kana and kanji teaching in this would be entertaining enough to engage my imagination. I learn very well when my mind is fully engaged. Teacher's droning shuts me out fast and my mind wanders and I don't learn. It sucks if I get boring teacher's cause I know I am gonna have to find a way to basically educate myself on the subject they teach or I will fail.

Let me be brutally honest with you: studying Japanese is dreadfully boring, and you can study for years with little to show for it, so it is terribly discouraging. It requires the ability to spend long years of persistent effort at stuff that will never ever engage your imagination. Trying to spice up the studies with manga and anime will not help one bit, in fact, it will divert you from expending your effort in things that will pay off in the long term. Learning Japanese will require you to develop skills that are alien to your very being, you will need visual memory to remember kanji and kana, you will have to develop grammar skills that are usually poorly developed in native English speakers (since grammar is poorly taught in most schools) and you will have to learn to "think in Japanese" (which is the hardest trick of all). And most of all, you will have to learn strategies to deal with the sheer boredom of the weeks, months, and years spent memorizing hundreds of kanji and thousands of vocabulary words.
If you are incapable of doing things like this, you really should give up on the whole idea of learning Japanese, it will only frustrate you. Sorry. Most people can develop the skills they need to acquire a second language, but some people can't do it. Think hard and realize that in order to become fluent in Japanese, you will spend enough time and effort that you could have spent doing something else significant with your life. Do you really want to do this?

[FG Lurker]

Let me be brutally honest with you: studying Japanese is dreadfully boring, and you can study for years with little to show for it, so it is terribly discouraging. It requires the ability to spend long years of persistent effort at stuff that will never ever engage your imagination. Trying to spice up the studies with manga and anime will not help one bit, in fact, it will divert you from expending your effort in things that will pay off in the long term. Learning Japanese will require you to develop skills that are alien to your very being, you will need visual memory to remember kanji and kana, you will have to develop grammar skills that are usually poorly developed in native English speakers (since grammar is poorly taught in most schools) and you will have to learn to "think in Japanese" (which is the hardest trick of all). And most of all, you will have to learn strategies to deal with the sheer boredom of the weeks, months, and years spent memorizing hundreds of kanji and thousands of vocabulary words.
If you are incapable of doing things like this, you really should give up on the whole idea of learning Japanese, it will only frustrate you. Sorry. Most people can develop the skills they need to acquire a second language, but some people can't do it. Think hard and realize that in order to become fluent in Japanese, you will spend enough time and effort that you could have spent doing something else significant with your life. Do you really want to do this?

We have often not seen things the same way in the past, but in this case I basically agree.

I spent 1.5 years full time in Japanese language school (20 hours/week + a considerable amount of additional study time) and it was one of the toughest periods of education I have been through. Memorizing kanji and the multitude of readings is incredibly, mind-numbingly boring.

Now I work for the Japanese subsidiary of a European company. I am the only non-Japanese in the office and therefore spend my days working mostly in Japanese.

After 1.5 years of intensive studying and many subsequent years working and living in the language, I do not consider myself fluent. I can manage without (much!) trouble in most situations I am faced with, but claiming fluency is something I have difficulty doing.

Further, I think trying to learn Japanese outside Japan would be 10x harder than trying to do it in country.

I don't necessarily want to say that you (GargoyleTS) should give up, but learning Japanese is a long-term endeavor.

[boca_torcido]

heh, I have my final exam for japanese 102 in less than twelve hours, and what am i doing? reading a forum topic about the difficulty of learning japanese. >_<

god I just hope I get a "C" so that I can go on to japanese 201 next semester. If I can pass that, I can graduate. Otherwise I get to take three more semesters of some other language.

There's just so_much_to_memorize!

[FG Lurker]

heh, I have my final exam for japanese 102 in less than twelve hours, and what am i doing? reading a forum topic about the difficulty of learning japanese. >_<

god I just hope I get a "C" so that I can go on to japanese 201 next semester. If I can pass that, I can graduate. Otherwise I get to take three more semesters of some other language.

There's just so_much_to_memorize!

I don't think Japanese is absurdly difficult for a person with a good memory and a strong basis in logic. There are many rules that can be followed -- as long as you can remember them!

Studying kanji is again not overly difficult, as long as you have a good memory or develop a system that works for you. But it is boring! An hour of studying kanji will put even the very caffeine-wired to sleep.

[kamome]

I wholeheartedly recommend the Mangajin series (now out of print) and this new book if it is at all like Mangajin was.

By the way, I agree that hardcore J-study can be boring. But I was always fascinated by how the Japanese describe complicated concepts in their own language. When you get to that level of study, it can be pretty engaging because you start to understand how rich the language is. It really is every bit as complex, expressive and nuanced as English is.

[FG Lurker]

By the way, I agree that hardcore J-study can be boring. But I was always fascinated by how the Japanese describe complicated concepts in their own language. When you get to that level of study, it can be pretty engaging because you start to understand how rich the language is. It really is every bit as complex, expressive and nuanced as English is.

Definitely once you get to a certain point it becomes a rewarding experience -- you can learn new things and apply them right away. Understanding Japanese also drastically changes your life in Japan and opens huge opportunities that would never appear to a non-speaker.

It's just getting to that point that sucks.

[jim katta]

I once heard a gaijin who was fluent in japanese say to a guy, "if you can't get the basic kana (not kanji, just kana) inside your head within 2-3 weeks, you should give up trying to learn japanese."

I'm not necessarily going to second that, but I will say it sounded true. I'm extremely busy, and I was able to pick up and commit the kana to memory with not a lot of difficulty. I think attitude has a lot to do with it. are you 'committed' to learning what you need to learn, or are you just trying the language out. I didn't make any progress until I stopped playing around and got serious with it.

"why learn it" is a good question too. I think if you can make peace the fact that you may never directly benefit from learning japanese (I mean professionally/financially), and you STILL have a strong desire to learn, then you can move forward. I think the language definitely does a good job of weeding out casual students and only gets cracked by those who commit to it. keep in mind I'm saying this for students who do NOT live in japan, because as someone said, that is a hard thing to do. on the other hand, I think learning japanese (at least basic japanese) while living in japan is a simple matter of wanting to. immersion is really the best scenario of all. barring that, with japanese, I think you have to be obsessed (read: a little crazy).

[tetsujin gaijin]

I've been seriously studying Japanese for about four months now and I'm enjoying it. I am taking classes in the states, so unfortunately I don't have the advantage of total immersion.

I found Kana very easy to learn and fun too. Suddenly being able to look at characters that before you had no clue what they meant and read them was incredibly rewarding. Of course I still read them like a kindergartner, but I can read them! I haven't started learning kanji yet so will see if I find that as enjoyable.

It does take dedication. In my class last semester we started out with 12 people. Now we are down to four. That should tell you something.

[GargoyleTS]

I know it won't be easy. And in fact I would rather be able to study with more advanced language such as that used in law and science, especially technology, but I can't jump that far yet. So I start with a smaller world, stuff aimed at young minds. Simpler stuff. I am trying to get a jump on colege classes and I do need to apply myself more to it, but trying rote -memorization doesn't seem to work. Flash-cards don't do it.

Porn Dick and Jane might, but we won't go that far

Especially with the high likelyhood of either demons, underage girls or girls with male genatalia being involved in the story

So, I was hopin for something to keep me engaged imaginitively as well as logically. I do want to learn this language and not solely because of Anime, Manga, Video Games or Yellow Fever.

Heck, here is my incomplete list...Why I want to go to Japan:

I have been interested in Japan since I was 8.
The birthplace of Samurai and many of the Martial Arts.
The Birthplace of Anime and Manga.
3000+ years of civilised history and culture.
Incredibly diverse land. Mountains, Beaches, forests...
Most technologically advanced place on earth
Its not America
All the best video game's and equipment (IMO)
The women
The men
Goth's
Bosozoku
Architecture
The place moves with frightening speed. Change is the norm yet it is oddly stable. So much is going on, yet the people handle it with a calm acceptance.Pop-culture has gone through so many shifts in last two decades, yet the young people seem to not only accept it, but embrace it and retain a definitive sense of self-identity. The overall culture is going through a new change as the world around them becomes a more diverse place. Information access and exposure to new things has led to a new, as-yet untapped resource for growth in Japan. And I want to see what Japan does with it.

All that said, I know some of it is wrong, I know some of it seems laughable and some of it goes in the face of what each of you has observed about Japan in your time there. I wrote this quite a while ago when I first started college and have been studying and learning more about it from people who have been there ever since. And the more I learn, the more I still want to go. I am still 3 years from finishing college *throttles everyone in the admissions office* heheh, long story that. After next year I will move to University where courses are offered. Maybe that will help me learn the language, maybe it won't. I am not confident of my ability to learn it in a classroom environment, so I want to find so good, engaging, entertaining learning aids for the basics of the language.

[kamome]

I've been seriously studying Japanese for about four months now and I'm enjoying it. I am taking classes in the states, so unfortunately I don't have the advantage of total immersion.

I found Kana very easy to learn and fun too. Suddenly being able to look at characters that before you had no clue what they meant and read them was incredibly rewarding. Of course I still read them like a kindergartner, but I can read them! I haven't started learning kanji yet so will see if I find that as enjoyable.

It does take dedication. In my class last semester we started out with 12 people. Now we are down to four. That should tell you something.

The first 2 years are a bitch because you have to retrain your mind to absorb a completely alien script. It starts off looking like a bunch of squiggles. The first 2 - 3 weeks were hard, but I also managed to memorize the kana in that span of time. Then, you kind of coast along until the grammar rules multiply exponentially sometime in the second or third semester of study. At that point, it will dawn on you that you have embarked on a very difficult path. By the time your fourth year rolls around, it will start to get easier and you can get by on self-study. Good luck, dude.

[ichigo partygirl]

The best and easiest way to learn japanese is to live in japan and have japanese lessons in japan. I struggled at high school for 3 years then i went to japan for a while. The time in japan was the most valuable time for me. In the class i was interested but not excited. But learning the langauge while lving in japan was truly exciting, scary, and a hell of a lot faster than learning in school. There are times when u'll want to give up - but dont. Just nut it out, theres a point of no return with japanese. Its a point you get to when you relise you have gone so far and you cant wait to go further!. I am in my 3rd year of a 4th year honours degree in japanese language and culture. Looking back to my first couple of years learning i never thought i would have got this far.
So goodluck with your study!!!!!! And sorry but apart from living in Japan the only other interesting and quick way to learn japanese is to have a japanese girl/boy friend that speaks shit all english. Could be an option aye

[appleday]

I have the book and it's great. It is written in in kana, kanji, furigana and romaji so all the bases are covered. It does not teach you how to read or write Japanese. The main thrust of the book is to teach you grammarr, both polite and and casual speaking.

The book is a wealth of knowledge and is extremely dense in the amount of information. That being said, if you want to learn Japanese with just this book you'll find it overwhelming. It is best used as a reference text while you study Japanese through an actual course.

At least it teaches you the grammar, cos the main thing that changes is the verb form! If you know all of this, it will be easier to get the rest done in a flash.

[Pencilslave]

I for one am having difficulty learning all the Kana (okay, ANY Kana), let alone Kanji. Trying to pick it up through self-teaching, but maybe its just my bad study habits. If this (or another entertaining project like it) teachs Kana/Kanji, I would love to find it. Outdated scenarios, or utility scenarios like airport and hotel conversations don't seem to motivate my learning centers.

I used to have all the basic hiragana memorized. I've had to start studying it again though and still need to learn the sound changes and the katakana tables. What worked for me the first time is to write the symbols down repeatedly, reminding yourself of how they sound. Writing kanji down repeatedly works to some extent also in regard to remembering meanings and pronounciation.

I'm still at nursery school level in my Japanese, so I know it's a long hard road. But if you want to learn Japanese bad enough, if you're prepared to study your ass off and not give up, you can learn it.