Anime Freakiziods Unite!

[Taro Toporific]

The Anime Network: Anime Call to Arms
--
Anime Fans of America:
You' ve made Anime Network, the only dedicated anime channel in America, a breakout sensation ......but now, Anime Network's continued operation and expansion is in jeopardy. Despite the overwhelming success of Anime Network on Demand, certain cable executives think they can program any old anime, and that the fans of America won't know the difference...ad nauseum...

[Pencilslave]

The Anime Network: Anime Call to Arms
--
Anime Fans of America:
You' ve made Anime Network, the only dedicated anime channel in America, a breakout sensation ......but now, Anime Network's continued operation and expansion is in jeopardy. Despite the overwhelming success of Anime Network on Demand, certain cable executives think they can program any old anime, and that the fans of America won't know the difference...ad nauseum...

While I have to give credit to ADV credit for being one of the pioneering companies for bringing anime to the states in the early 90's, it seems their success has gone to their heads and their product quality is starting to take a nosedive. Bad dubs, putting English words over the Kanji and Kana signs in the DVD editions, and in some cases the picture quality is not so great.

I'm not too keen on the Video on Demand format they have.
If they went with a regular pay channel format and charged a set amount
per month, the Anime freaks like yours truly would make them obscenely rich in no time at all. And to make it really good they'd have to dispense with any bullshit editing and instead go with ratings for each program like Cinemax and HBO does.

[plaid_knight]

Also, I wish the channel would start broadcasting stuff in Japanese and allow us to switch between English and Japanese. I'd love to have something other than my (extensive) DVD collection to help me out.

[Charles]

Also, I wish the channel would start broadcasting stuff in Japanese and allow us to switch between English and Japanese.

Did it ever occur to you to try the SAP function on your TV?

SAP=Secondary Audio Program; usually used for a second language track.

You should be aware that anime isn't going to help your language skills, unless your goal is to talk like a total dork.

[Samurai_Jerk]

anime isn't going to help your language skills, unless your goal is to talk like a total dork.

[plaid_knight]

Bullshit. I've learned tons of vocabulary from anime. I'm not interested in "dramatic japanese", but some of the conversational stuff in the shows can be used.

[Charles]

Bullshit. I've learned tons of vocabulary from anime.

I don't doubt it for a minute. But vocabulary like "crystal tiara" won't help you much in normal conversation. Unless you want to sound like a dork.

[cenic]

Charles, you've missed the point completely. One of the prerequisites to being an otaku anime fan is being a dork. I guess you've never had the displeasure to attend a state side anime con.

[Charles]

Charles, you've missed the point completely. One of the prerequisites to being an otaku anime fan is being a dork. I guess you've never had the displeasure to attend a state side anime con.

I am quite familiar with all sorts of otaku dorks, and they are all quite convinced they are the epitome of cool. It is my role in life to make it quite clear that they are not. Not in the least.

In the past, in other forums, I have written lengthy treatises why anime is useless as a study aid for Japanese language, quite the contrary, it will rot your brain and make you completely unable to speak and comprehend normal Japanese. But I have long given up on trying to educate the incorrigibly stupid. In any case, I will just summarize my best point: Anime is an entertainment product, made with voice actors who speak in exaggerated tones and pace. The otaku believe this is normal speech, but it is not. If you learn Japanese from anime, you're dooming yourself to sound like the Japanese equivalent of someone who learned English from watching Elmer Fudd and Daffy Duck cartoons. Thufferin thucotash!

[Pencilslave]

. Thufferin thucotash![/quote]


You bad ol' puddytat!!

Seriously, the best way to learn spoken Japanese is probably from a teacher or by using an audio course that uses a native Japanese speaker.

[Andocrates]

[Charles]

Mozart said "Notes are notes."

He lied. Mozart was one of the greatest minds of history. You're not. You need to know the rules before you can break them. It also helps, if, like Mozart, you wrote the rules.

And words are words. Watch this 5 second video clip and tell me you can't learn anything from it.

I couldn't hear the audio track because you encoded it incorrectly. But I'll take your word for it, and accept your transcription as accurate.

I never said you can't learn anything from cartoons. I said you learn all the WRONG things from cartoons. Let me prove it. Pop Quiz, essay question: explain the use of donatory verb usage in this example. Why does the speaker use "yatte morau" instead of the verbs suru and kureru/kudasaru/itadaku etc. and why is the verb moratta in past tense? Why do the English subtitles use imperative forms and future tense when the Japanese phrase does not?

You go on ahead and try to convince yourself you're learning Japanese by watching cartoons. It's always amusing to watch the contortions otaku will go to, to justify their cartoon watching hobby.. amusing in the same sense it is amusing to watch a circus freak show or a train wreck.

[Mulboyne]

Why does the speaker use "yatte morau" instead of the verbs suru and kureru/kudasaru/itadaku etc. and why is the verb moratta in past tense? Why do the English subtitles use imperative forms and future tense when the Japanese phrase does not?

I think there are a lot of excellent Japanese speakers, including native speakers, who wouldn't be able to give you an answer to that question. In fact, that sounds like the kind of question that many Japanese think they need to have an answer to when they are studying English and so never get around to saying anything. There may be many "wrong ways" to learn a language but that surely depends on what the learner wants to do with it.

[Charles]

Why does the speaker use "yatte morau" instead of the verbs suru and kureru/kudasaru/itadaku etc. and why is the verb moratta in past tense? Why do the English subtitles use imperative forms and future tense when the Japanese phrase does not?

I think there are a lot of excellent Japanese speakers, including native speakers, who wouldn't be able to give you an answer to that question. In fact, that sounds like the kind of question that many Japanese think they need to have an answer to when they are studying English and so never get around to saying anything. There may be many "wrong ways" to learn a language but that surely depends on what the learner wants to do with it.

That's not the point. Yes, most native speakers are unable to explain grammar points, they've internalized the grammar and don't need to know the rules. But your average otaku dork that thinks they're learning Japanese when they're merely watching cartoons, they DO need to know the rules. First you learn the rules, then you internalize them so you don't need them anymore. A noob who doesn't know the basics of Japanese, let alone the trickier system of donatory verbs (morau/kudasaru/itadaku etc) and the encoding of keigo based on social positions, is going to be totally clueless about what is happening in this one simple phrase, and mistake verbs like yaite for yaru (like I did, but I have an excuse, I just looked at the romaji, I couldn't hear the audio). What's andocrates excuse?
But let's go back to the original question, what did I learn from this clip? Just one thing: stereotypical mexican banditos speak Japanese.

[Andocrates]

I never said you can't learn anything from cartoons. I said you learn all the WRONG things from cartoons. Let me prove it. Pop Quiz, essay question: explain the use of donatory verb usage in this example. Why does the speaker use "yatte morau" instead of the verbs suru and kureru/kudasaru/itadaku etc. and why is the verb moratta in past tense? Why do the English subtitles use imperative forms and future tense when the Japanese phrase does not?

You go on ahead and try to convince yourself you're learning Japanese by watching cartoons. It's always amusing to watch the contortions otaku will go to, to justify their cartoon watching hobby.. amusing in the same sense it is amusing to watch a circus freak show or a train wreck.

You probably don't have the proper audio codecs, but no bother. Not everyone who watches anime is an otaku. That line of reasoning results in statements like, "all gay men like show tunes." Watching anime does not make you weird, believing anime is real is what makes you weird.

I'm not sure the line of reasoning "Learn Japanese by Studying grammar," is any better then learning by watching Japanese TV. I studied Japanese "properly" but it did me little good in Japan. So to try and answer your pop quiz.

yaku is a group 1verb, not a suru verb. I would not have used yaku but tsukuru

I don't know the rule behind placing a hypothetical (future) statement in the past tense, I only know it sounds "right." I guess only concrete ongoing things are placed in te iru form.

morau in used because a third party the speaker has no knowledge of the person will do the action.

(I) bake a cake for you:
ke-ki wo yatte ageru
(please) bake me a cake:
ke-ki wo yattekurete kudasai
she baked (us) a cake
ke-ki wo yatte moraimashita

And one last thing, some American and German otaku are freaking monsters when it comes to learning Japanese. Paint everyone with the same brush and you'll miss half of what is going on around you.

[Charles]

You probably don't have the proper audio codecs, but no bother. Not everyone who watches anime is an otaku. That line of reasoning results in statements like, "all gay men like show tunes." Watching anime does not make you weird, believing anime is real is what makes you weird.

I have all known "proper" codecs, you're obviously using some windows-specific codec, which by definition is improper. Try using codecs that comply with open standards.

Not everyone who watches anime is an otaku. That line of reasoning results in statements like, "all gay men like show tunes." Watching anime does not make you weird, believing anime is real is what makes you weird.

Not really, there are plenty of otaku with a few shreds of sanity, who are able to tell the difference between reality and cartoons. What makes them weird is that they PREFER cartoons to reality.

I'm not sure the line of reasoning "Learn Japanese by Studying grammar," is any better then learning by watching Japanese TV. I studied Japanese "properly" but it did me little good in Japan.

You're not giving yourself enough credit, of course your formal classes did you a lot of good, you just don't realize it.
My teachers always said that formal studies were just the preparation for your REAL studies, when you get into a 100% Japanese language environment. They can trot out hundreds of well-documented studies about how much more rapidly and properly people learn Japanese with formal studies before immersion in Japan, and how much more poorly people do if they have some immersive experiences in Japan and pick up bad habits in speaking, before they get any formal training.

So to try and answer your pop quiz.

yaku is a group 1verb, not a suru verb. I would not have used yaku but tsukuru

My error, I just read your incorrectly transcribed romaji, which used yaru instead of yaku.
<snip>
None of your answers address my point, the language forms are used because it's the listener's mother who bakes a cake, it explicitly invokes the uchi/soto rules for donatory verbs, which is all tied into the keigo system, something that is not apparent to noobs, it's not usually taught until 3rd year in formal college studies.

And one last thing, some American and German otaku are freaking monsters when it comes to learning Japanese. Paint everyone with the same brush and you'll miss half of what is going on around you.

Yeah, like the uber-otaku I know who memorized all the jouyou kanji, but still can't answer a basic question like "ima nanji desu ka?" He is now a registered sex offender because he got caught showing hentai manga to 10 year old kids, in a FREAKING CLASSROOM where he was a teacher's aide.
I have never encountered an otaku who attained a serious level of fluency in Japanese. It's all about their goals. They only want enough skill to be able to understand comics, and to send emails to a few nihonjin contacts to beg them to buy stuff for them, and most of all, they only need enough Japanese to impress otaku noobs. None of that will enable them to interact with native speakers in any normal way. Isn't that the goal of learning Japanese, to be able to speak and interact with native Japanese speakers, through speech and writing?

[Andocrates]

I have never encountered an otaku who attained a serious level of fluency in Japanese.

How many fluent gaijin, otaku or otherwise, have you met? I only know 1 (Declan Murphy at Yamasa.) Japanese is hard for everyone if they have fun learning it more power to them. I don't see how that is any different then your enka thing.

BTW are you saying animation cannot be art? That animation is unable to convey meaning and emotion? Watch "Grave of the Fireflies" and I bet you change your mind.


Audio Format:
Code: 0x0055
Name: WAVE_FORMAT_MPEGLAYER3 (MP3)
Vendor: ISO/MPEG

The following codecs all claim to be capable of processing this format:

--> {Fraunhofer IIS MPEG Layer-3 Codec (professional)}
--> {LAME MP3 Codec v0.9.0 - 3.93 (stable)}
--> {MPEG Layer-3 Decoder}

DirectShow was also able to find a codec to render it - the sound for this media clip should work fine.

See the DirectShow Render details for more info.

[Charles]

How many fluent gaijin, otaku or otherwise, have you met? I only know 1 (Declan Murphy at Yamasa.) Japanese is hard for everyone if they have fun learning it more power to them. I don't see how that is any different then your enka thing.

I know lots of fluent gaijin, none of them are otaku. And FYI, I haven't heard any enka since I was over in Japan in April, and before that, probably not for a few years. It's not like I consider enka to be study material, it's just another amusing thing I encounter once in a while, I don't really go out of my way for it.

BTW are you saying animation cannot be art? That animation is unable to convey meaning and emotion? Watch "Grave of the Fireflies" and I bet you change your mind.

Sure, Oskar Fischinger's "concrete film" animations are art. But anime is crap. And you've touched on one of my pet peeves, "Fireflies." This is one of my second big arguments about how anime rots your brain, the point is entitled "The Japanese Are Not Like Us." You think it's an eloquent antiwar film. I say it's a propaganda film, it's a sneer at the young postwar generation by those who lived through the war, it says "you little brats never had it so good, look at what we suffered through for our glorious emperor, we died like a shattered jewel." It's pro-war propaganda. Go read Ibuse's book "Kuroame" if you want to understand Fireflies in the proper context.

Audio Format:
Code: 0x0055
Name: WAVE_FORMAT_MPEGLAYER3 (MP3)
Vendor: ISO/MPEG

oops, my mistake, I was cleaning my office and my speaker cable got unplugged, it does play now that I've discovered the problem. And like I expected, it's a voice actor using an exaggerated voice, definitely not something you'd want to emulate. I always say it takes 15 minutes of listening to proper Japanese to erase the damage from 1 minute of bad Japanese.

[Lethain]

Saw a lot of interesting comments in this thread so thought I'd jump on in. I am living in Yamaguchi and I suppose one of the sparce beenfits of living in the only prefectural capital without a Shinkansen station is most of the foreigners around are here for a reason... and a reason other than talking about anime.
I have only met two individuals here who are fluent and they are remarkably similar. Both have been here for more than 10 years, are married to Japanese spouses, (strangely enough they both teach English, but at a college which I guess is better), and neither of them have ever brought up the topic of anime, for which I am grateful.
Honestly I havent encountered a single 'otaku' here in Japan, but those I have seen in America basically ruined my Japanese class by being idiots, being lazy, being bad at Japanese, and basically spent their time clubbing me to death with their social and academic inadequacies.
I have to agree with Charles that anime has a negative impact on learning Japanese. People tend to latch onto useless vocabulary (why study a dialogue when you can memorize an anime theme song!) In a sense a strong grammatical background somewhat insulates you from the damage, but somethings that are really difficult for some westerners to be aware of (high, low pitch.. tone.. the right word escapes me.. moras) tend to sneak in and really produce problems that are undetectable to the speakers themselves but make them sound more than a bit strange.

[Andocrates]

I don't think anyone was advocating learning Japanese from scratch by watching anime, or for that matter even television. That would simply be impossible. The thread was about how you could not learn anything from watching anime which is a stupid comment when you think about it, it's in Japanese right? Name one show in English that you couldn't learn some English vocabulary from.

Nonetheless, if watching One Piece or Naruto is enjoyable to me what the fu*k does it matter to you?

It's not like Japan has a market on bad TV. Would you care if I watched Buffy?

[Charles]

I don't think anyone was advocating learning Japanese from scratch by watching anime, or for that matter even television. That would simply be impossible. The thread was about how you could not learn anything from watching anime which is a stupid comment when you think about it, it's in Japanese right? Name one show in English that you couldn't learn some English vocabulary from.

Nonetheless, if watching One Piece or Naruto is enjoyable to me what the fu*k does it matter to you?

You're not listening. I never said you couldn't learn something from anime. I said you can't learn anything USEFUL from anime. Rather, you learn how to mispronounce words, and how speak in affected accents, about stupid things like crystal tiaras and vampires.
The reason it matters to me is that anime dorks give people like ME a bad name. When people discover that I know Japanese, they immediately think I'm into anime. 15 years ago, they would have thought I was into buddhism or aikido or something relatively sane like that. Anime ruined Japanese studies. Even my old professors are sick of anime. One of my former professors was one of the world's most famous Japanese film analysts, but he was pressured to incorporate anime into his film classes to increase enrollment to get more money for the department. He quit in disgust, and moved to a prestigious Ivy League school where he doesn't have to put up with idiot otaku or departmental pressure to incorporate cartoons into scholarly film studies.

[djgizmoe]

Hey, the very first Japanese I learned was from AKIRA and Patlabor, and the slangy, plain form dialogue ended up ringing truer than the following 4 years of feminized-keigo-infested classroom study.
If it wasn't for my interest in anime, I wouldn't have become interested in Japan and eventually come to live here (where I did not end up being a total dweeb). Making generalizations about shallow anime ignores truly artistic films like AKIRA, Jin-Roh, Perfect Blue, Mononoke Hime, etc. For every Pokemon pervert, there's a Tokyo Godfathers fanatic, for every Yugi-Oh cosplayer, there's Wings of Honneamise-loving film critic.

As for focusing on the "Japanese were victims" subtext on Hotaru no Haka, just remember that the main characters, two kids, were in no way complicit with the adults who did not try harder to stop their country from going to war...Still, it's a downer I probably won't see again, but that's a personal preference.

Which brings us to "personal preference". Live and let anime otaku, dude. Even the worst of them (those who idolize/obsess on anime characters), are not half as bad in my book as soccer hooligans. Or baseball card collecting stats otaku. Or the religious right. Or flash-card-roll-on-belt carrying kanji-otaku...

Nothing I'm more intolerant of than people making intolerant generalizations...

[kotatsuneko]

watching jtv is the best teacher there is! screw tapes/computer courses/language "exchange"...

nothing beats jtv!

one thought, have you ever thought a lot of otaki start learning japanese in earnest, then get to the point where they can understand games/comics but dont wish to go further as when they read the weekly mags/newspapers what they find is so unpleasant they'd simply rather not read them / be in contact with the average japanese?

sure, its a great hobby, learning any language, personally, the only company i need in japan are my wife, her family and the local seicomart staff.. the rest can go hang imho.

[Charles]

Hey, the very first Japanese I learned was from AKIRA and Patlabor, and the slangy, plain form dialogue ended up ringing truer than the following 4 years of feminized-keigo-infested classroom study.

This is a common criticism, but I assure you that there are valid pedagogical reasons for using masu/desu forms before introducing plain forms.

If it wasn't for my interest in anime, I wouldn't have become interested in Japan and eventually come to live here (where I did not end up being a total dweeb).

And there's the difference between you and me. I saw Akira in a theater when it first came out in the US, must have been back in the early 80s, and was totally unimpressed. Some of my animator and comic artist friends dragged me to see it, the had heard it was some new revelation in animation, and they were all unimpressed too.
I guarantee you that I know a lot more animators and comic book authors and artists than you do, I used to work in the trade. And that is one of my other main points about anime: the authors are all scared to death of their fanatical otaku devotees, they often live in seclusion or guard their home addresses from public knowledge. They think the people who buy their products are idiots, they have nothing but contempt for their audience, and they're laughing at them all the way to the bank. Do you really want to buy a product made by people who think you're an idiot? The joke's on you.

Making generalizations about shallow anime ignores truly artistic films like AKIRA, Jin-Roh, Perfect Blue, Mononoke Hime, etc. For every Pokemon pervert, there's a Tokyo Godfathers fanatic, for every Yugi-Oh cosplayer, there's Wings of Honneamise-loving film critic.

Apparently you don't know what Film Criticism is. It's not Ebert and Roper writing a newspaper column. It's about Film Theory, stuff like poststructuralism, cognitivistic theory, inferentialism, etc. There isn't a real film critic who goes anywhere near anime.

As for focusing on the "Japanese were victims" subtext on Hotaru no Haka, just remember that the main characters, two kids, were in no way complicit with the adults who did not try harder to stop their country from going to war...Still, it's a downer I probably won't see again, but that's a personal preference.

I never said that the film portrays the Japanese as victims. Quite the contrary. Remember, The Japanese Are Not Like Us. In buddhism, there are no victims, we made choices that determined our karma that dictated our fate. The kids choose to struggle and die in the manner they did, they made a choice to leave the home of the strangers that housed them. Their choice to starve to death was a noble sacrifice, they preserved the most important thing, filial piety, even at the cost of their lives. Their death was a great victory, they died like a shattered jewel.

Which brings us to "personal preference". Live and let anime otaku, dude.

I never said otaku should not be allowed to live, but now that you mention it, you might be on to something.

Even the worst of them (those who idolize/obsess on anime characters), are not half as bad in my book as soccer hooligans. Or baseball card collecting stats otaku. Or the religious right. Or flash-card-roll-on-belt carrying kanji-otaku...

No, they're far worse. I've never seen soccer hooligans who insisted that the object of their idolation was art. I've never seen baseball stats fanatics chase scholars out of their university. Otaku do all those things, and worse..

Nothing I'm more intolerant of than people making intolerant generalizations...

I'm not making generalizations, I'm making observations. And I've observed hundreds of otaku, in my years of tutoring students at our university. Some of them should be immediately locked up in a mental institution as an imminent threat to society and themselves. Some of them HAVE been institutionalized. The rest of them need counseling and heavy doses of Paxil. I've never met a single otaku who could be considered anywhere close to sanity. And that's strictly an observation.

[Charles]

watching jtv is the best teacher there is! screw tapes/computer courses/language "exchange"...

nothing beats jtv!

I keep telling people, if you really want to learn Japanese, fuck anime, watch the news shows. The topics are based on real life, not fantasy, so you already have some basic knowledge of what is happening. News topics last for days, so you accumulate useful vocabulary and get repetition to hammer it in to your memory. The announcers are all picked for their ability to speak clearly and plainly, but you still get a lot of variety of real speech at all different levels from the people who get interviewed, they even put kanji subtitles on interviews in many cases. You can even watch them on the internet via streaming video, with printed scripts so you can use an online dictionary easily.

one thought, have you ever thought a lot of otaki start learning japanese in earnest, then get to the point where they can understand games/comics but dont wish to go further as when they read the weekly mags/newspapers what they find is so unpleasant they'd simply rather not read them / be in contact with the average japanese?

It's true, the otaku at my university drop out after 2nd year, when they finish their 2 year language requirement. Some of them don't even make it that far, once they discover it takes real effort that would cut into their anime-watching time. But none of them get to the point where they can read or listen to anime without serious time spent with a dictionary. They're not reading and listening, they're decoding. But they seem to think this is fluency.

[kotatsuneko]

good point about decoding.

i always found world business satellite a good challenge, and interesting to boot.

i know nhk has some great material but its so brown trousers i could never face watching it..

i'm just a shameless fuji terebi fan i suppose..

now if only that kyohansha dvd box set would come down in price..

[kotatsuneko]

oh, and round the corner from us, where a distant relation had a mansion lived a presenter from htb who was always very friendly and who could go from picture perfect keigo to gutter slang in a blink of the eye local news also rules..

[djgizmoe]

Hey, the very first Japanese I learned was from AKIRA and Patlabor, and the slangy, plain form dialogue ended up ringing truer than the following 4 years of feminized-keigo-infested classroom study.

Charles wrote: This is a common criticism, but I assure you that there are valid pedagogical reasons for using masu/desu forms before introducing plain forms.

Hmm, I thought that the whole idea behind authentic texts was to cut out the 'middle-man' of 'classroom-only' language and go straight to the stuff that is immediately appropriate to the environment the student will find themselves in, should they actually wish to visit Japan or at least carry on a conversation over the internet. For a very boring review on types/discussion of authenticity: http://www-writing.berkeley.edu/TESL-EJ/ej02/a.1.html

If it wasn't for my interest in anime, I wouldn't have become interested in Japan and eventually come to live here (where I did not end up being a total dweeb).

Charles wrote: And there's the difference between you and me. I saw Akira in a theater when it first came out in the US, must have been back in the early 80s, and was totally unimpressed. Some of my animator and comic artist friends dragged me to see it, the had heard it was some new revelation in animation, and they were all unimpressed too.

First, the theatrical release in the states was, as far as I can recall, the uncleaned up, dubbed version, which was painful to watch, especially for someone weened on the subbed version. Anyway, if you're not a fan of metaphysical sci-fi (2001, Blade Runner, Solaris, etc.), than you'd probably be turned off. But it's certainly a neat story, and very well directed.
Second, you missed my point, which was merely a personal one. I became interested in AKIRA and then I became interested in Japan through it. I don't care if you and your "comic artist friends" didn't like it]Even the worst of them (those who idolize/obsess on anime characters), are not half as bad in my book as soccer hooligans. Or baseball card collecting stats otaku. Or the religious right. Or flash-card-roll-on-belt carrying kanji-otaku...[/quote]

Charles said: No, they're far worse. I've never seen soccer hooligans who insisted that the object of their idolation was art.

Now THAT'S funny. No, if you started talking about the artistic invalidity of their favorite team they probably just look at each other funny before kicking the crap out of you. Get real man, have you ever met any?

Charles said: I've never seen baseball stats fanatics chase scholars out of their university.

That's because they're two busy trying to find a Reggie Jackson with that rare printing error on the back. You'd have to be a pretty fragile 95 year old man to be chased ANYWHERE by out-of-shape, pasty faced anime fans (ok, there's my jab, so sue me).

Charles said: Otaku do all those things, and worse..

Some links please? The worst thing I've ever seen an otaku do is wear funny costumes and be dorky. If you attack the object of their otaku-ness, maybe they might say "No way, Ranma rules!" but I don't think they would beat you to death with a hammer.


Charles wrote: I'm not making generalizations, I'm making observations.

Thank you Mr. Arrogance. Without giving any evidence.

Charles wrote: And I've observed hundreds of otaku, in my years of tutoring students at our university. Some of them should be immediately locked up in a mental institution as an imminent threat to society and themselves.

A nice flair for hyperbole, but only that.

Charles wrote: Some of them HAVE been institutionalized.

Again some juicy evidence would be much appreciated.

Charles wrote: The rest of them need counseling and heavy doses of Paxil.

So does everyone. I know a guy in Roppongi if you need a hook-up...

Charles wrote: I've never met a single otaku who could be considered anywhere close to sanity. And that's strictly an observation.

Um, sounds like YOU'RE the one who needs counseling and Paxil. You've obviously been traumatized by your encounters with dorks, which is tragic, TRAGIC, but you don't need to call for their extermination. Chill out. And then go rent Perfect Blue; it's the perfect anime for otaku-haters...

Ok, I can't believe I wasted nearly an hour defending otaku. But somebody had to be the devil's advocate for my two or three otaku-ish friends...End of rant.

[Kuang_Grade]

[Charles]

Oh boy, I just love a bunch of lengthy messages with mangled quotations, full of a bunch of hastily googled jargon from postmodernist theory websites. You'll have to do a lot better than dropping names like Deleuze and Guattari, considering I've actually READ their books and had to deal with them in upper-level college work, and you obviously haven't.
You really ought to bone up on your Film Theory. The current theory that's all the rage is one from my old professor (a nihonjin BTW), the one I told you about, that fled the university rather than put up with anime. He wrote an interesting book that asserts that all Film Theory started when Kurosawa's Rashomon was first seen in the west, starting a huge debate amongst scholars about whether western audiences could properly interpret a film so heavily based on an eastern culture. He described how Film Theory was born, as critical journals evaluated cultural issues in Rashomon and then other Japanese film, and the field developed into what it is today: totally deadlocked over post-marxian analysis, discredited Chomskyan cognitive theories, etc etc. and unable to resolve them until it goes back to the original source and answers those original crosscultural questions. And it all started with a Kurosawa film. It really is a most fascinating theory, or perhaps I should say, a meta-theory.

But as usual in these anime debates, I am casting pearls before swine. A person who loves anime is not intellectually equipped to evaluate film theories, they know nothing of film history, they are blind to the subtle issues of film, preferring to be dazzled by geeky SFX, and that oh so special feeling of orientalism. And there are far too many people who defend their obsession too vehemently.. oops, I mean, who defend their friend's obsession.. yeah, it's their friend who is an otaku, that's their story and they're sticking with it.

So excuse me if I refuse to make any further attempt to educate the incorrigibly ignorant. You're out of your league. You can go take your own classes in Critical Theory, I paid lots of good money for mine.