Easy J-VISA Debit, Point Cards and Credit Card Nonsense (1 of 2)

[madfuku]

Long post sorry:

Just finished setting up one of these accounts (http://www.ebank.co.jp/) for no particular reason other than to check it out, I do sh*t like that to test the water for gaijinphobia from time to time, its become sort of a hobby to see if I get declined.

I don't know if this is a problem for many in Japan anymore as I got a bunch of J-credit cards already and I've been here under a year.

After I finished my account setup (half online / half paper) they sent me a J-VISA debit card (pink naturally) that doubled as their ATM card as well. I was thinking this might be a good bank for recent arrivals that need a J-VISA debit card for whatever reason. I also think these cards open an official credit profile for you as wel because they are processed by the same companies that do normal credit cards, I asked.

I only bring any of this up because none of my other bank cards where available with a VISA type debit option when I first got here so I felt I had to start applying for credit cards the moment I arrived, my US ones where hit or miss and I was told it was an uphill battle to get one.

In fact a lot of my seasoned friends in Japan even lifers which I have since met didn't even have a single J-credit card, IMHO having a J-credit profile is important for a whole lot of reasons.

There is a lot of reasons you should want a J-credit card and profile. Like, to save money for example. I also noticed early on that a lot of places I shop at use point cards (like this http://www.yodobashi.com/enjoy/more/gpc2/index.html) connected to credit cards. Using these I have saved me around 180,000円 in the last year alone. You must however apply and use the store sponsored cards, back to that credit profile thing again...

You might be thinking, that you can just use a paper pointcard connected to nothing and use cash, and I'd tell you that sure is better than nothing but the points are in many cases doubled when you use a store linked credit card and half of what you get with cash if you use a non-linked credit card . Not to mention that if you used a J-credit card to pay you would be building your credit profile making every purchase that you make anyway do something useful aside from loosing hard earned cash which happens regardless of who you give that cash to, the store directly or the credit card company. The only difference is one can actually remember what a good customer you are and update your credit profile for all to see.

I did things a little backwards but, I did get the SAISON INTERNATIONAL VISA with ETC pretty easily from an application at the Japan Post. They won't offer it to you gaijin folk, you gotta ask for the application. You will undoubtedly see ads in the post office for various mystery credit cards that you apply for onsite, the caveat usually being that payments can only be made through your postal account balance. I also did get a card from Shinsei bank where I hold my primary bank account. Both of these came the first two months I arrived in Japan.

Other interesting to note, none actually verified anything other than my name and address. My company and income was never investigated even once and hasn't ever yet which is astonishing to me.

Also, there is a lag between when you pay a J-credit card bill and to when your account is updated to reflect that payment. So if you have a 500000円 line of credit, and use 120000円 your payment could take a few weeks to post. In my case, as long as 8 weeks.

I was so concerned they may have not been receiving my payments that I called my credit card companies and they all told me not to worry this is normal and everything is ok. So then I took the opportunity to asked if they could increase my credit line since the payment delay actually affects my available purchasing power and to my surprise they actually doubled my credit on what was essentially new cards not more than 4 months old at that point.

I also want to point out that I used my J-Drivers license and national insurance card as ID, I never offered my gaijincard on my successful credit card applcations. They don't actually ask for it specifically, but list it as a usable ID, you simply need to provide enough IDs in there list to prove who you are. I have never been asked to prove my residential status incidentally using that method nor my passport.

I suspect that is because in order to obtain a J-drivers license you have to be a japanese national or a legal resident properly registered with your ward. I had to show a valid Visa, gaijincard and certificate of alien registration (a print out from the ward) to apply for a drivers license.

Moving on, and ironically enough, after receiving a few credit cards already and pretty happy about my credit card experience so far and having nothing to loose I decided to include my gaijincard with some recent applications as a form of ID in place of my drivers license and I promptly received letters declining my application, not even a phone call to qualify me, the common line was I had no credit profile... despite actually having a established credit profile from numerous places and even having two with a credit line of over 1 million yen each, along with a stellar payment history, hmm.

Now I suspect they never knew I already had a credit profile, or its status because they never actually looked. These applications are very hands on I have discovered, very little automation. They go to a pencil pusher at a desk and the first pencil pusher reviews that the applications are actually completed BEFORE stamping it and sending it along to reaching the folks that actually perform an evaluation of you credit worthiness. They really aren't looking for gaijin they just happens to have a way of dealing with them.

Thus those letters declining you never actually decline you based on anything other than the fact that you included your gaijincard that is perhaps too new. Reminding me of stories of gaijin who said they applied for years and then got one after residing in Japan for 4 or 5 or getting married. Yet, I had none of those things and qualified...

Here's my take on it. No one gets a credit card without first going through some sort of back and forth (mail) with the credit card issuer.

In every instance I successfully received a credit card I first received a phone call from the credit card company. In every call, they asked me exactly the same series of questions, in Japanese.

1) Who am I speaking with?
2) Did you apply for a this credit card?
3) I want to confirm your application information do you have time?
4) Spell out your name (Katakana and then your Romaji name in Japanese pronunciation of the alphabet)
5) What is your date of birth (using Japanese calendar)?
6) What is your address (in proper Japanese)?
- they source the questions from your application answers you provided and nowhere else.

Then they thank you tell you they will be sending you another letter to record your bank account information so they can automatically withdraw money from your bank account for your credit card bills and that you will recieve your card after that. From that point forward everything happens very quickly and your card shows up in a week or two.

Why is this important? and how is the pencil pusher and this person that called me connected? Well, these two people are the main things standing between you and a credit card in my experience. If you include your gaijincard as an ID it results in an unofficial negative mark on your application that often is fatal because depending on perhaps how old that card is and your visa type the default assumption is your Japanese is not good enough and will cause a problem for the call center when they call you to verify information due to a perceived language problem.

The pencil pusher, rather than actually forwarding this application for verification to the call center simply kills it right then and there in order to avoid taxing the call center staff with a stupid gaijin that doesn't speak Japanese.

So if you have a J-License, use it, and leave your gaijincard and passport hidden in your wallet. They don't need to know your details such as how long you have been in Japan or your status so why volunteer it. This makes it more difficult to shove your application to the side and reject it without investigating it because you might not be a stupid gaijin.

Now to the person that calls you. The very first time I got a call I admit I messed up and got declined. They started asking me questions and I panicked and started mixing japanese and english and was clearly uncomfortable speaking Japanese. The operator said that she was sorry but I needed to understand Japanese in order for "HER" to consider approving the application and the call ended with my apologizing for my crummy Japanese.

Later, I realized that if your getting the call, you are getting the card because you have basically been pre-qualified by not being killed before it gets to the callers desk by the pencil pusher. They also would have performed any credit check PRIOR to that call and you passed muster there too. The FINAL task is in the call you receive in itself to make sure you are you and in the rare case of a gaijin, that you understand enough Japanese in the opinion of the call center operator. Its all scripted, answer the questions nicely and briskly makes for a happy call center person. Don't ask them to repeat things, its pretty much over if you do.

So if you can, get a drivers license, any vehicle and use it in place of your gaijincard it will open doors faster for you. This has also worked for other things like cell phone contracts and insurance. I never got asked for my gaijincard at DoCoMo/AU/Softbank, I simply gave them my drivers license no problem, even at the airport and finally to police at J-government buildings that I sometimes need to visit.

continue to next post...

[madfuku]

One other thing, don't let people discourage you from getting an official hanko and registering it, always saying you won't need it and it is unnecessary because your a gaijin. This is total nonsense and just lazy, if you have any intention on living in Japan like a normal person you should have one.

For the most part you won't need it in everyday life if your a typical uninteresting gaijin who is passing through. But if you intend to have a life here your foolish to not just get it over with the day you pickup your gainjin card as you can't buy a white plate car or do certain types of financial transactions without one or look like a well adjusted person to a Japanese credit card company or mobile carrier. It helps reduce obstacles.

Now, yes, you can register one before you receive your gaijincard but then you would have to reregister again and pay again when you get your gaijincard because your records are different in the ward computer. You actually are two different people as far as the hanko registration system is concerned.

I felt that using a hanko would make things easier for me in the long run so I registered my hanko the moment I arrived and when the banks told me I didn't need it I said that's OK, I wanna use my hanko. I recommend you do the same. People are quite happy when I pull out my hanko as it keeps things familiar for them and doesn't make for some special gaijin accommodation process which is understandably irritating even in the ward office. Or do you like signing your name to a tiny circle.

When I have the option, I also use my Katakana name instead of romaji, and this turned out to be a good idea because I later found out credit searches are performed in katakana for both Japanese names and foreign names. So all my bills and bank accounts have the primary name as katakana with romaji in the same section as the Japanese romaji reading.

Sometimes a bank will just use your romaji reading in their database and not ask you for katakana. This basically makes you harder to find on a credit check because again, its a very hands on process and the search will be done in katakana not romaji. It is unlikely they will want to spend to much time on your application and do an additional check using romaji, even though they probably could. Its all about not wasting time and energy on you.

Remember the nail that sticks out gets hammered down, especially true in Japan.

[FG Lurker]

Good post, thanks for taking the time to write it out.

One thing about the store points: Quite often you can get the same item for less at smaller non-point stores. If you buy something for 100,000yen at Yodobashi and get 10% points, you can probably find it for 85,000yen elsewhere. There are exceptions to this rule of course, especially for discounted items or items that are being promoted.

I've had many odd experiences with getting (or not getting) credit here. AMEX was more than happy to give me a card. Citibank gave me the big F.U., even though I already had the AMEX and was making much more $$$ when I applied at Citibank. Go figure. I use the AMEX for ETC but tend to pay cash (or with debit) for most everything else.

UFJ gave me a 40+ million yen house loan with a specially reduced interest rate and no hoshounin. Yet the car company wants a Japanese person (anyone will do it seems) to sign off on the car loan...? I've given up wondering why these things happen.

[madfuku]

Quite often you can get the same item for less at smaller non-point stores.

You're absolutely right and I rarely shop at Yodobashi as the parking is terrible and they are overpriced IMHO. I prefer Yamada Denki personally. But sometimes you need that one odd item and they seem to have it especially for Mac.

I am no longer a fan of Citibank and I had the same experience on the credit card. Not only that they wanted my Social Security Number and wanted me to fill out a slew of tax forms, some where actually for the IRS in the US. They wanted to know my employer, my position, how much I make and had a waiver on there application saying they may report this information to the US government and this was just for a bank account.

I've tried hard to keep track of exactly what I write on official forms and applications mainly to see what works and what doesn't.

The car financing thing is an odd one in Japan and I've seen that happen a few times as well. The process of buying a new car in Japan is baffling to me, pay now pick up the car three weeks later. One dealer actually wanted me to wait two months to take delivery, I said, wah, forget it.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

nice work there fuku...

In regards to the Hanko etc. If you're going to spend half a day at the city office you may as well register your name in Katakana and make sure it linked up with your Gaijin card etc. I went through the process of a home loan with a Japanese bank and my name had to be in katakana for all the forms and my katakana name had to be registered.

Could be the same in other credit areas?

[Mr Doricar]

How do you go about registering your name in katakana? That's a damn good read and I shall be visiting said bank very soon!

[madfuku]

How do you go about registering your name in katakana? That's a damn good read and I shall be visiting said bank very soon!

This is a good question. I can't recall at what point it moved from romaji to katakana maybe someone can shed some light on that, for me it was an unintended consequence to something I did. Probably some form I filled out in the process of doing something at the ward office, maybe my hanko registration or health insurance.

I did everything pretty much at the same time so I filled out many forms.

All correspondence I receive from my ward office uses my katakana name including my health insurance card, my dogs rabies vaccination registration and permit as well as things related to my car and house.

I also use my hanko for all ward forms never my signature, and the ward personnel also told me I have to use my hanko for all official government forms as do Japanese nationals.

[GomiGirl]

I get letters addressed to me in my hanko name which is in Hiragana as I liked it better. It is just my first name as well which is kinda interesting. So that is how the ward office must know me. But my gaijin card has my name in English and in the katakana I use. But I get all sorts of combinations and permutations. They all seem to work - especially when somebody is trying to bill me for something.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

How do you go about registering your name in katakana? That's a damn good read and I shall be visiting said bank very soon!

It's one of those chicken/egg situations. You can't do something without something else....

I think it's something like.
1.) register an alias (katakana) name.
2.) get the name put on your gaijin card.
3.) register your inkan under your registered katakana name.

Also note that this is a [size=-1]jitsuin inkan for property, not a [/size][size=-1]mitomein which is used for everyday things like opening bank accounts. I don't remember if the katakana name was on the inkan certificate but I do remember that I had an official copy of the inkan certifcate and a copy of the alias registration when I went in for the signing marathon at the bank. So having both certificates certifies either is legal.

I don't recall how I proved the katakana though. Could have been from the entry on the Family Register, health insurance card or even just my buisness card.
[/size]

[6810]

Actually, the Katakana name situation is debatable.

I have a J-CC in my name - in English.

The name I use in Japan is my name written in English.

All correspondence addressed to me is in English.

Then name on my home loan is in English.

My Inkan is in English and is registered at city hall.

Why? Long story cut short. All of my J-ID didn't match my inkan at the time (name in Katakana) which I needed to put on my home loan app. Quickly went and got a new inkan made up in English and, viola! All of my official ID in Japan is now in English.

[omae mona]

Madfuku - great post. Thanks for the useful writeup. On a side note, I think your analysis below hits the nail on the head:

The pencil pusher, rather than actually forwarding this application for verification to the call center simply kills it right then and there in order to avoid taxing the call center staff with a stupid gaijin that doesn't speak Japanese.

I agree with your guess. I think the more a foreigner can communicate in Japanese, the more one gets treated the same as Japanese customers do. The vast majority of situations where foreigners get treated differently, like the example you gave above, stem from language problems and practical issues (whether perceived or real).

That's the reason whenever I enter a store, bank, police station, or when my deriherusu service stops by, I try to make sure they hear me communicating in Japanese as soon as possible. Not that my language skills are stellar by any stretch of the imagination, but it visibly lowers their stress level and normalizes relations very quickly.

[American Oyaji]

I had a J-credit card that I applied for at an electronics store by myself without my wife. I think everything I did in Japan with my name was in katakana.

When I left the service, I got my military drivers license translated and stamped by the Japanese police liason at the base's security police office. I then took that to get my driver's license. (I had already gotten my gaijin card in katakana by that time too. The katakana based on my marriage certificate at the Misawa ward office) I never wrote my name in English except when the specifically asked for romaji.

It also helps to know your address in Kanji perfectly. If you can't write it legibly, out the door you go.

[madfuku]

Actually, the Katakana name situation is debatable.

I have a J-CC in my name - in English.

I am not referring to the name that is used on your credit cards. My name on my credit cards are also in romaji as are ALL Japanese who hold an internationally recognized credit card. Some of my domestic bank cards are in katakana because some local banks can't print anything but katakana even for Japanese names (further illustrating my point).

I am referring to the records within larger databases in Japan, particularly federalized systems which I have great direct experience with through my former profession. These systems are proprietary and took in some cases decades to evolve and are truly antiquated. In fact most government agencies in Japan today including the yubin use mainframes which are notoriously finicky and best left alone if they are running well enough. They weren't designed with you in mind.

The records kept by most Japanese companies are designed to accommodate the particulars of the Japanese language. Many systems do not take foreign languages into account. In fact, most romaji names are stored in memorandum fields in government databases.

This is why, if you are involved in transactions that the average gaijin generally doesn't need to deal with such as buying cars, getting financing or a loan, buying land, investing in capital instruments or something as seemingly simple as being entered into one of the oldest databases in Japan, Koseki Tohon 戸籍謄本 (for those that are married) where even this absolutely critical national database cannot even add a non-Japanese name until recently and still only as a memo in a notation field, you wouldn't need to be bothered.

Thus, backing directly into my point and making the katakana name not as debatable as you imagine it to be. Now you happen to have no problems in english thats great for you, but as a person who has been in Japan for about 10 months I think I've made progress that most n00bs find challenging to achieve and I am just laying out what I did and do in the hopes that it could be useful in someone else's situation. Collectively, we can illuminate these challenges by sharing our experiences in the hope of identifying practices that work best for most people.

In the limited time I have been here I bought land, built a house, bought cars, imported my dog (a Doberman no less) over from the US and navigated reams of paperwork, rules and cultural challenges. Many of these things are still daunting to many people and even to me. Even to Japanese themselves; my Japanese friends ask me how on earth I got my dog into Japan and routed through Narita to Fukuoka airport without so much as a 5 minute delay at the quarenteen station. My Japanese friend even managed to mess up his paperwork when returning from the US only to have his dog quarentened for 180 days and at a cost of almost a million yen.

So this is just my perspective of living in Japan and working through a complex system with lots of secrets yet to be uncovered. If foreigners in Japan want to accomplish things faster and lower hurdles they should look at things from a more rounded perspective as Japan is just layers of gray where nothing is really ever absolute here.

I should tell you the story of how I got my drivers license so fast even though I had to take a driving test a few weeks after arriving to Japan while people in my testing group where on their 5th and even 9th visit.

I'll save the full story for another day and another thread, but it had nothing to do with my driving skills, in fact I failed initially, but mysteriously I still got my license after the proctor who already submitted his paperwork and told me to come back again another day... But then after a short conversation with him, he went back in and changed it to passing and I got my license just like that. Failed and passed, all in the same day. There where even two proctors in my car, one slipped in right before I drove off and sat behind me, basically hitching a ride around the course, odd.

[madfuku]

I had a J-credit card that I applied for at an electronics store by myself without my wife.

Props on that. Don't you just love the fact you have to fill out the application in front of them while they watch you only for them to give you back the application with a stamp or sticker on it saying where it was filled out so you can mail it in Every single in store application I did involved this process.

It also helps to know your address in Kanji perfectly.

This is very true.

I travel in and out of Japan a lot on use my multi-entry permit about 18 reentries so far this year. I make sure to complete the reentry form in Japanese mainly to try to help things along and hopefully reduce any questions or BS. I have never been stopped or slowed down in anyway, nor have I been searched by customs and I have never been asked a single question on reentering Japan. Just a smile and off you go.