question regarding birth certificate

[kotan]

i'm an american who will be living and working in japan until sometime next year.

my japanese wife and i are expecting our first child this november. we were married in the U.S. and i didn't have her change her surname because it wasn't that big of a deal to me.

it is a different story for my child however. i am adamant about having my surname only on the birth certificate, but from what i understand the japanese try to force the parents to put the japanese woman's surname on the birth certificate... i am not comfortable with being forced to do this against my will. in fact, i will do whatever is necessary to have the name processed as i believe it should be.

after the baby is born, can anyone give me an idea of how/when the birth certificate is created and when the spelling of the name and actual surname are registered?

what must i do in order to guarantee that my baby's first name and my surname *only* appear on the birth certificate? if necessary i will demand that the baby is processed as a gaijin (i.e. as if both of the parents were foreigners), and get the baby a temporary visa until we move back to the states next year. it is kind of unfortunate if i have to go this route, but i guess the sooner the baby learns about the real japan the better. on the other hand, if there is a more amicable way to handle this situation, such as having the name processed in katakana i will choose that way. another route i can imagine is having my wife change her family name to mine... and then i imagine the baby would necessarily have my surname.

also, birth certificates are often used as a form of identification in the U.S. does the U.S provide another birth certificate in english or will we have to always use the japanese one?

finally, how and when does the baby get assigned a social security number? social security will be long gone by the time my baby is old enough to benefit from it, but it is still an essential form of identification.

thanks for your help!

[GuyJean]

As far as I'm aware; Japanese wife with maiden name + her baby was born in Japan = Japanese birth certificate with her last name; you don't exist to Japan if she still has her maiden name.

You can get an English birth certificate, with your last name, when you register your child/apply for a US Social Security Number at the US embassy..

I'd recommend also getting a US Passport for your child with your last name. After you get the US Passport, apply for the Japanese Passport using the US Passport as one of your child's documents; Your child will have your last name in parentheses on the Japanese Passport. For example:

US Passport - Bill Bixby
Japanese Passport - Bill Yomogida (Bixby)

The Japanese Passport will probably be the only Japanese record of you being connected to the child within Japan..

More info can be found here:
http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-7115.html

Good Ruck!

GJ

[kusai Jijii]

Hi Kotan.
This info is going back to 2003, but I think it is still relevant.
As you might well be aware, as a gaijin, even though I am a permanant resident, I dont have a koseki. I'm on my wifes koseki, as are my kids. Thats just the way it is.
However, we went to the family court in Osaka several years ago to have my wife's surname changed to mine. It sounds dramatic, but it really only took about 10 mins and next to nothing financially. The result of this was that my surname was recorded in her koseki in brakets after her original maiden name.
Some people might say "So, who gives a fuck?" However, this means that my surname appears in my children's Japanese passports (allbeit in brackets after their mother's maiden name). My children's birth certificates and Australian passports are in my surname (with no brackets etc).
The long and the short of it, I think, is this. No big deal. They legally have my surname outside of Japan, and in Japan they legally have my surname registered in brackets on the koseki.
Of course, at the public schools that they attend, they are registered under my surname (and we have never used my wife's maiden name in any paperwork etc), so as far as we, and everyone else is concerned, they have my surname.
Hope this helps...

[maraboutslim]

I like how the guy who is worried about his kids knowing the "real japan" is talking about japanese birth certificates. Dude, there is no such thing as birth certificates if your kids are born in japan. Your children's names will be registered on your wife's family register, which is probably many generations old at this point. You can use your family name when you register the kids with the embassy to get their "consular report of birth abroad" (not a birth certificate per se, but functions much the same way back in the usa).

A rose by any other name...

[DrP]

Another twist to this -- since i have (11mo ago) gne through the process...

1) Make sure you get English birth certficate as well as Japanese when your child is born. This way you can register to both Japanese and US government easily.

2) Your wife's registration is <hers> -- but she should change to match your registered surname.

3) Your wife should join to your registration - essentially you become the head of household and all koseki registrations fall under your name. This includes your wife and children.

4) At this point, YOU are the head of house and thusly responsible for basically everything (tax, health insurance, etc) Your family is under your name on all their health cards, for example.

5) Now , going to the US (for example). Since your child has English birth cert. the going is much easier. Everything matches up - your marriage certs, child's birth cert, etc -- then you can easily apply for citizenship for your child.

Our baby has 2 passports -- US and Japanese. No issues. They dropped the dual citizenship issues several years ago. AND she is fully under MY healthcare (koseki) rather than her mother's. In fact I pay dearly for Japanese 'head of house' (as anyone in Japan would know). My daughter is registered under MY family registry and my wife's registration is updated to show she is ALSO under mine. So there you go.

Basically the hospital will actually charge you about 10,000yen more to issue the English birth cert - but its worth it. There were no hassles whatsoever in getting all the registrations and certs managed - just the regular 16hrs waiting around for the bureaucrats to do their thing.


DrP

[kusai Jijii]

Dr P.
I will happily stand corrected if I'm wrong, but (assuming you yourself aint a Japanese national) how can you have your own koseki?
With respect,
Kusai Jijii.

[Greji]

Another twist to this -- since i have (11mo ago) gne through the process...

1) Make sure you get English birth certficate as well as Japanese when your child is born. This way you can register to both Japanese and US government easily......

Docs on top of this for you. I might add that you can go to the US Embassy web site for everything you need to know about registering the baby. If you live a ways from the Embassy, or a consulate, I would read it religiously because you are going to need certain documents depending on how long you've been married and other things. So you need to make sure you've got everything lined up before you go to preclude having to go back and forth again to obtain other documents..

I might recommend something that I have done on all six, say again, six kids (wonder what causes that). I made sure they were registered at the embassy and city office as follows:
Japan for the koseki: Japanese family name, first name, middle name, US Family name in that order.

Embassy for birth registry: First name, middle name, Japanese family name, US family name in that order.

Does wonders for easing future passport explanations and paperwork by having all names present and accounted for.

It's no biggie if you don't, but it's still quite handy for later on, rather than having two passports in entirely different names.

[kotan]

thanks to everyone for sharing their knowledge and experiences! it will be very helpful to me.

it may seem archaic to some, but passing on my family name is important to me, and i was anxious about the japanese government denying me that right.

from what you guys are saying it seems that it will be fine (especially since i am returning to my home country)...

[omae mona]

kotan - the only absolute fact that you should believe 100% is the golden rule:

Never get legal advice from us idiots here on FG.

I think the above responses have as many errors as correct statements. And here is my very own opinion, which is also undoubtedly 50% wrong

* There is no such thing as a Japanese birth certificate.

* Your child will end up on your wife's koseki with her last name. I don't think there's a way to avoid this if she doesn't change her last name. You're supposed to be on there too (in brackets) so you have an official statement that it's your kid.

* The document you have to get for the U.S. is called a "Certificate of Birth Abroad". You are allowed to register any name you want on it, but it's what will basically be used for your kid's U.S. passport. The name does not have to be the same as on the Japanese family register. Even the first name can be different. You have to apply at the U.S. Embassy within a few weeks of the baby's birth. It acts as a proxy for an actual birth certificate, it lists both parents, and it grants your child U.S. citizenship and a social security number.

* Try to avoid letting the Japanese authorities know your child has dual citizenship. It's allowed until age 20, and then the Japanese government forces them to give up one or the other. If you don't bring the U.S. citizenship to the Japanese government's attention, there is a good chance they won't notice it and won't force the switch in 20 years. I know dual U.S. / Japan citizens that have managed to get away with this for a long time. With any luck, the law will be changed within 20 years, so your kid will be able to keep dual citizenship without having to keep one secret.

[Doctor Stop]

I know dual U.S. / Japan citizens that have managed to get away with this for a long time.

I know at least one dual Peruvian / Japan citizen that had managed to get away with this for a long time.

[GuyJean]

.. * There is no such thing as a Japanese birth certificate..

According to the US Embassy, technically there is.. It's just not worth anything.. ].. In all cases, including U.S. military births born off-base, the preferred birth document is the Japanese Shusshou Todoke Kisai Jiko Shomeisho.

There are similar documents also issued by the local Japanese ward or city office, but unfortunately none are acceptable (such as the Shusshou Todoke Juri Shomeisho or Koseki Tohon) UNLESS they include the child's and parents' full names, the date and place of birth and seal of the ward or city official who certified the document.

In instances where both parents are not Japanese, the only document the ward or city office will issue is the Shusshou Todoke Kisai Jiko Shomeisho.

The birth certificate issued by the Japanese hospital is not acceptable... - - http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-7115.html#birthproof[/QUOTE] GJ

[FG Lurker]

3) Your wife should join to your registration - essentially you become the head of household and all koseki registrations fall under your name. This includes your wife and children.

4) At this point, YOU are the head of house and thusly responsible for basically everything (tax, health insurance, etc) Your family is under your name on all their health cards, for example.

5) [...]

Our baby has 2 passports -- US and Japanese. No issues. They dropped the dual citizenship issues several years ago. AND she is fully under MY healthcare (koseki) rather than her mother's. In fact I pay dearly for Japanese 'head of house' (as anyone in Japan would know). My daughter is registered under MY family registry and my wife's registration is updated to show she is ALSO under mine. So there you go.

I think you are confusing your terms, or maybe just confused.

1) If you are not Japanese you can not have a koseki. As a gaijin married to a Japanese you will be a footnote on your wife's koseki.

2) Being the head of the household is not related to being the main person on the koseki. I'm the head of household but obviously do not have a koseki.

3) National Health is another matter again, and the main family member of Nat Health is also not related to being the holder of the koseki. I'm not even sure it is related to being the head of the household.

[FG Lurker]

it may seem archaic to some, but passing on my family name is important to me, and i was anxious about the japanese government denying me that right.

from what you guys are saying it seems that it will be fine (especially since i am returning to my home country)...

If you want to be sure that your kids have your family name then you should get your wife's name changed to match yours. Your kids may choose to live in Japan in the future, even if you choose to live in the US (or elsewhere). If this is the case they will revert to using their mother's name (at least officially) as that is the name they will be registered under here. Their kids (your grandkids) will also be registered with the Japanese name.

Regardless of koseki footnotes and names in brackets, if you want to be sure, having your wife's name and your name the same is the only way.

[Greji]

* Try to avoid letting the Japanese authorities know your child has dual citizenship. It's allowed until age 20, and then the Japanese government forces them to give up one or the other. If you don't bring the U.S. citizenship to the Japanese government's attention, there is a good chance they won't notice it and won't force the switch in 20 years. I know dual U.S. / Japan citizens that have managed to get away with this for a long time. With any luck, the law will be changed within 20 years, so your kid will be able to keep dual citizenship without having to keep one secret.

Omae mona has some good advice and accurate up to the last point which I have found a bit different in our case. First, as I mentioned, everything you need is set forth nicely on the US Embassy Web page here.

The last part about duo nationality, whereas technically true, it is not enforced to any degree by either Japan or the US. No country wants to put their citizens in a position where they must immediately must choose nationality, because they may not choose the right one, and governments hate to loose citizens, believe it or not.

If the individual gets envolved in an incident where nationality becomes important, such as government employment, running for office, major level international business (registration of company or employment), one or both countries may take this as a declaration of nationality to the country in question. Otherwise they tend to look the otherway with cause.

My most recent experience with this was my 21 year old son went to Europe representing Japan in an international sporting event, since they were considered a "National Team (Nihon Daihyou)" they were given the bums rush at the gaimusho. My son actually received a call from an official asking if his US passport was up todate and if he intended to use it. Instead of simply saying "NO", the idiot (he takes after his mother) told them he had just gotten it renewed, but would not use it unless the team transited the US and if they did, he would enter and exit the US on his US passport. The official told that this was alright, but to insure that he exited Japan and re-entered on his Japanese passport because to do otherwise, might endanger his status in Japan making him an FG requiring a visa. As I said he is 21.

As I said, neither country wants to loose their citizens and not press the issue. The only people I know who have had to declare were ones that had ran into difficulty with the law, or ran afoul of certain individuals in the government.

FWIW

[omae mona]

Omae mona has some good advice and accurate up to the last point which I have found a bit different in our case.

See? I promised what I posted would be 50% inaccurate

[halfnip]

I just went through all of this a while back...... Am still a "dual" citizen and although it is considered illegal in Japan, the rule basically just states that while in Japan, you cannot use BOTH identities at the same time. So while in Japan, use one or the other and while in the US, use one or the other. As long as you're not constantly pulling out both passports and throwing them on the table--you should be fine. My problem was that my name on my Japanese passport is COMPLETELY different (my mom's name, etc.), so things start getting a bit messy as boothe mentioned. With our first child on the way, I had to go through a long process of leaving, re-entering on my US passport, being re-hired as a US national, registering our marriage under my American name, and then finally changing my wifes koseki to reflect my surname. Not to mention going through the process of having her support my visa, etc.

Now that that's all taken care of when the baby comes, things should be pretty straightforward as outlined in this thread...

Re-reading through this post, I have the craving for some beer.....

[Greji]

I just went through all of this a while back...... Am still a "dual" citizen and although it is considered illegal in Japan, the rule basically just states that while in Japan, you cannot use BOTH identities at the same time. So while in Japan, use one or the other and while in the US, use one or the other. As long as you're not constantly pulling out both passports and throwing them on the table--you should be fine. My problem was that my name on my Japanese passport is COMPLETELY different (my mom's name, etc.), so things start getting a bit messy as boothe mentioned. With our first child on the way, I had to go through a long process of leaving, re-entering on my US passport, being re-hired as a US national, registering our marriage under my American name, and then finally changing my wifes koseki to reflect my surname. Not to mention going through the process of having her support my visa, etc.

Now that that's all taken care of when the baby comes, things should be pretty straightforward as outlined in this thread...

Re-reading through this post, I have the craving for some beer.....

Not wanting to high-jack the thread, but a a quick question for you Half! Do you have five years total residence in US?

One of my other sons (I forget which one) and his wife are in the process of registering their first born and ran into that snag. Although a US Citizen, he has not lived in the states for a total of five years, having been born, raised and educated in Japan. As a result it is a pain in the arse for paperwork.

If you do not have that residence reaquirement and they actually want two years after age sixteen (this might be waiverable, if you have the five years total), they will reject your application out of form. What you then do is using the Rejection for registration of Birth as a reference document, obtain a JN passport for the baby, then submit a request for an immigrant visa to the US, which will be automatically approved (assuming the baby has no felony convictions) because of the one parent being a US Citizen, but it takes four to six months. Then the baby must physically travel with either parent to the US, or a possession, Guam is handy, and the minute, that immigrations stamp "entered" on the visa for the JN passport, the baby automatically becomes a US citizen. You then repeat the proper application registration of birth at the embassy again for the finalized paperwork and US passport. As I said, pain in the butt, but that's how it works.

[halfnip]

gboothe--

Yes, I was born in the US and moved here when I was 9. Then moved back to go to college and then just moved back here about 6 years ago. So, I believe that I have that part covered. Do I need to show some sort of proof of this? This is the first I have heard of this... I mean, I've heard about the stuff related to supporting my wife's greencard should be go back (back-dating taxes, etc.).

Thanks for the heads up!

[Greji]

gboothe--

Yes, I was born in the US and moved here when I was 9. Then moved back to go to college and then just moved back here about 6 years ago. So, I believe that I have that part covered. Do I need to show some sort of proof of this? This is the first I have heard of this... I mean, I've heard about the stuff related to supporting my wife's greencard should be go back (back-dating taxes, etc.).

Thanks for the heads up!

It sounds like you're okay. You may want to brouse the Embassy site for what you will need for paper work. Look under US Citizen Services>New baby. The physical presence side is talked about here....

I just went through this with the son and am pretty up to date, so if you have any further questions, send me a PM.

Cheers,