The Concrete Bunker Thread

[Mike Oxlong]

Please share you knowledge and experience.

How long do they typically last?
Once they start cracking are they done?
Repair and renovation - what's possible without a private Tokushukai loan?

Etc.

[Coligny]

Stronger if shaped like cubes or assembly of cube.
Even for small house (2-3 storey) pillards should be thick (50 cm side)
Walls are not structurals and should not be.
Avoid running wiring inside the walls, everything should be between the concrete and the drywall.
All room should have suspended ceiling access doors.
Insulation should be outside of the concrete, so it can act as a thermal damper keeping the cold in summer and trapping some heat ib winter.
If you like wireless internet at home, you are going to buy a lot of access points...
Be generous with wiring holes between floors.
Your concrete flat roof is going to leak, so finish the top of the house either with a greenhouse or enough solar panels to carry the rain away...
Think from the start aboot grey water tanks and piping.
Think from the start aboot aircon units holes and outside retainers. Make provision for every rooms even closets, even if you don't put the device at first.
Ask for a 50 cm overhang over every south facing windows. Lower the sun glare in summer (but not the lower angle winter sun) allow to install sun shades away from the windows allowing more wind. (Or net for climbing greenery)
Some rooms are better fully enclosed between concrete walls:
Bathroom/loo for humidity, workshop/kitchen for blast/fireproofing.
0ther rooms can be standard 2x4 drywall, easier to reshape/remodel...
Be carefull of the stairs angle, always too steep...
Try to have the first floor 50cm above ground, better for humidity...
Have anti liqufaction pillards planted under, heavy concrete on weak soil is bad.
Think about attic fans and chimney effect vents from the start.

[Mike Oxlong]

Thank you very much for that!

I would also be greatly interested in what you learned/liked/disliked during your time repairing and modifying the Big T bunker; as in the lowdown on used concrete pillboxes. Please and thank you, if and when you have the time and inclination.

m(_!_)m

[Coligny]

8 years later, still searching for the source of the roof leak.
Concrete health: the iron rebars should not show near rhe concrete surface or 'rust bulge' (rusting rebars breaking chips of concrete) for walls it's a -minor- weathering issue. For beams and colums, that's a structural issue.
Beam should not have apparent pouring seams. Meaning part of the beam was poured one day while the other part was poured the day after while the first part had already partially set. The concrete should look smooth without freaky bublyholes (looking like cotton clouds) especially on the bottom, that's a sign og insufficient vibrating while pouring.
External walls with basilion hairline cracks are a good warning of how worthless the whole structure is.
Cube units seems to have no flex allowed in them or on the horizontal plan. Meanwhile, seems that minor deviation is allowed vertically for some buildings. you often see silicon joints between floors on outside concrete walls in these case.

Instalators (phone/internet/aircon) systematically refuse to do any drilling work. So either you already have the good holes, you pay another contractor, or you do them yourself.

Having direct concrete floor (epoxy coating or tiled) is a pita for private home. Everything you drop is as good as dead. Better have a floaty wood flooring on top. Also, It gives space for piping/wiring.

Some Windows tends to crack supereasily... Mounting them directly encased in concrete seems bad... Using a urethane subframe might help.

[Wage Slave]

Interesting. What's a "basilion"? I have vaguely heard it but can't find a reference.

bastion?

[Coligny]

Interesting. What's a "basilion"? I have vaguely heard it but can't find a reference.

bastion?

Sorry, spellcheck screwup, meant brazillion

[Wage Slave]

Interesting. What's a "basilion"? I have vaguely heard it but can't find a reference.

bastion?

Sorry, spellcheck screwup, meant brazillion

Yep, thanks - I wondered about that but I would have said bazillion. There might be a difference in that bazillion is more context sensitive whereas brazillion is more absolute.

[wagyl]

I agree. For example, you can say that the Metropolitan Police in London shoot a brazillion every year or so, but you don't say that they shoot a bazillion.

(and for that, I deserve a brazillion whacks)

[matsuki]

Instalators (phone/internet/aircon) systematically refuse to do any drilling work. So either you already have the good holes, you pay another contractor, or you do them yourself.

Having direct concrete floor (epoxy coating or tiled) is a pita for private home. Everything you drop is as good as dead. Better have a floaty wood flooring on top. Also, It gives space for piping/wiring

Seen many stained/polished concrete floors that I like though....and radiant heating is probably more effective like that.

[Coligny]

I've seen radiant heating incorporated into wood flooring, but it's sure that the thermal inertia of the concrete is a huge bonus in these case. just avoid butter fingers...

Me Julie tend to drop everything... (her Airbook is 2 years old used only in bed and look like it was used as IED shield on an MRAP in Iraq)... including living things... In Nagoya she once dropped a somewhat heavy glass, who thanks to a springy shitty wood flooring rebounded right back in her hand... The same happened in the bunker, and weeks after we were still finding glass shards embedded in the drywall...

[Taro Toporific]

Seen many stained/polished concrete floors that I like though....and radiant heating is probably more effective like that.

Solar cells generating the electricity for radiant heating of fancy colored terrazzo floors (heating the thermal mass of concrete floors is a zillion times more efficient than storage batteries) would be the way to go for me.

If you go with radiant heating beneath wood floors, NEVER NEVER NEVER use worst-in-the-world-quality Japanese flooring.
Only accept real solid-not-veneer* hardwood floors (oak, maple, etc.) and never vile Japanese softwood flooring that you can score with your fingernails, which are veneers that that cannot be sanded, grrr.

*If you are insanely cheapskate/bimbo, use a multi-layer parquet hardwood
veneer floor that cannot be sanded, but won't show wear for its first 50 years.

[Coligny]

Solar cells generating the electricity for radiant heating of fancy colored terrazzo floors (heating the thermal mass of concrete floors is a zillion times more efficient than storage batteries) would be the way to go for me.

Concrete thermal inertia is such a clusterfuck without isolation...

In summer it store day heat to better radiate it at night. In winter it act as a continuous heatsink...
Isolate concrete, from the outside...

[matsuki]

Solar cells generating the electricity for radiant heating of fancy colored terrazzo floors (heating the thermal mass of concrete floors is a zillion times more efficient than storage batteries) would be the way to go for me.

Concrete thermal inertia is such a clusterfuck without isolation...

In summer it store day heat to better radiate it at night. In winter it act as a continuous heatsink...
Isolate concrete, from the outside...

If you isolate it, how does it heat/cool?

[Russell]

It seems that concrete structures at the end of their lifetime are much more expensive to clear up than anything else. It is one way to devalue your land...

[Wage Slave]

Solar cells generating the electricity for radiant heating of fancy colored terrazzo floors (heating the thermal mass of concrete floors is a zillion times more efficient than storage batteries) would be the way to go for me.

Concrete thermal inertia is such a clusterfuck without isolation...

In summer it store day heat to better radiate it at night. In winter it act as a continuous heatsink...
Isolate concrete, from the outside...

If you isolate it, how does it heat/cool?

He means isolate it from the environment I think. Anyway, the PiL have a concrete cube house and it seems intrinsically boiling in summer and freezing in winter. And yes, knocking it down would cost a fortune - quite likely more than the land is worth these days. Good in a typhoon though.

[Taro Toporific]

Solar cells generating the electricity for radiant heating of fancy colored terrazzo floors (heating the thermal mass of concrete floors is a zillion times more efficient than storage batteries) would be the way to go for me.

Concrete thermal inertia is such a clusterfuck without isolation...
In summer it store day heat to better radiate it at night. In winter it act as a continuous heatsink...
Isolate concrete, from the outside...

Fucking good luck finding a Japanese concrete company who will build with (styro)foam forms.
Even worse is trying to find a Japanese contractor who will properly:
1) Pour a concrete wall 2) Hydro-seal the wall 3) Correctly lay 20~30cm foam sheets over that sealed wall with a proper " Liquid Nail" glue 4) Correctly tape all the seams of the foam sheets 5) Find a stucco expert willing to lay and screw down fiberglass lath/mesh over the foam sheets and try to skip trowel stucco over mesh-covered foam which stucco doesn't stick to very well. 6) Re-paint the stucco with epoxy because color-tinted stucco never comes out in the expected color.
NOT. FUCKING. GONNA. HAPPEN. EVER.


Source:
I personally have built 20 passive-solar town homes using concrete and foam forms.

[matsuki]

ICFs are awesome but do they even sell them here? (importing won't be cheap)

Who would you use to build with concrete in Japan Taro?

[Coligny]

If you isolate it, how does it heat/cool?

You have the concrete exposed to the inside of the house, isolated from the outside.

In summer, the concrete help storing the cold from the aircon.
In winter it trap the heat from any heater.

The thermal inertia on concrete in houses is minimum one week. Even without isolation, Temperature changes outside the building only reflect inside after severals days. Example here, despite being a warmer weather since few weeks, the north stairs are still stone cold.

[Coligny]

It seems that concrete structures at the end of their lifetime are much more expensive to clear up than anything else. It is one way to devalue your land...

One of my big fear with the clinic...

[Coligny]

Solar cells generating the electricity for radiant heating of fancy colored terrazzo floors (heating the thermal mass of concrete floors is a zillion times more efficient than storage batteries) would be the way to go for me.

Concrete thermal inertia is such a clusterfuck without isolation...
In summer it store day heat to better radiate it at night. In winter it act as a continuous heatsink...
Isolate concrete, from the outside...

Fucking good luck finding a Japanese concrete company who will build with (styro)foam forms.
Even worse is trying to find a Japanese contractor who will properly:
1) Pour a concrete wall 2) Hydro-seal the wall 3) Correctly lay 20~30cm foam sheets over that sealed wall with a proper " Liquid Nail" glue 4) Correctly tape all the seams of the foam sheets 5) Find a stucco expert willing to lay and screw down fiberglass lath/mesh over the foam sheets and try to skip trowel stucco over mesh-covered foam which stucco doesn't stick to very well. 6) Re-paint the stucco with epoxy because color-tinted stucco never comes out in the expected color.
NOT. FUCKING. GONNA. HAPPEN. EVER.


Source:
I personally have built 20 passive-solar town homes using concrete and foam forms.

Forward my excuse to miss Taro for working you up on a sunday evening... Hope she got the waterboarding setup ready to roll or them elephant hunting tranquilizer dart gun...

I only experienced the joy of choosing where to put a wall mount water heater, that included me sending the 2 plumbers back to fuck of and not come back until they were ready to do as asked:
They wanted to run a new gas line from the counter instead of putting a 2 exit gas tap instead of the single exit one running the cooking table, with my wife siding with the gas company of course... Because... Superior japanese and stuff...
I won... Btw... And got me bitch to stfu once she saw the price difference between my request and what they wanted to do...

[matsuki]

If you isolate it, how does it heat/cool?

Ahh that makes sense! I thought you meant insulated in and outside. Yeah, all that thermal mass is awesome. (especially when compared to the average J-home which bleeds off any cooling/heating as it's being run)

I only experienced the joy of choosing where to put a wall mount water heater, that included me sending the 2 plumbers back to fuck of and not come back until they were ready to do as asked:
They wanted to run a new gas line from the counter instead of putting a 2 exit gas tap instead of the single exit one running the cooking table, with my wife siding with the gas company of course... Because... Superior japanese and stuff...
I won... Btw... And got me bitch to stfu once she saw the price difference between my request and what they wanted to do...

I mentioned this when doing my kitchen but the dyke-san was insisting on the need to add another outlet specifically behind the range hood....when all that was needed was a 100Yen extension cord to extend the cable to the original outlet. I think they're just used to being able to make up BS work and jack up the price without any protest.