Buying/Building a house/Imported Houses

[ttjereth]

First a list of all the other threads related to buying/building houses for any future research by myself or anyone else (if I missed any let me know and I'll edit them into the list):

is buying a house such a bad thing?
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18018

home buying
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15934

ikea kitchen
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17127

House building consultants
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13381

Wanna buy a house in Japan for less than 1 million yen?
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8264

buying property in Japan
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11391

Bidding On Court Auctioned Real Estate
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12654

Buying a rental property in japan
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14695

Tax credit for building loan
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18018

Building a house. How about Canadian import houses?
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6152&highlight=import

Then on to my actual post:

The wife and I are tired of living in the tiny crowded Tokyo apartment and looking to buy a house.

I am not rich, so price is a major factor and all the purchasing will be carried out using bank loans (putting the shiny new PR to work right away).

All of my work in conducted through the internet and/or telephone so in order to be able to purchase land cheaper we are probably going to move from Tokyo back out to the boondocks of Tochigi where I lived before we got married (unless anyone has some incredible tips on getting land in Tokyo at Tochigi prices ).

We are leaning towards buying land and having an imported home built (Japanese: 輸入住宅).

Still in the very early stages of everything and thought I would look for some prelimnary information here, just to get a feel for things, so, on to the questions.

1. My thus far meager research seems to indicate that building an imported home will be cheaper than having a Japanese home built (we'd prefer the imported home for other reasons as well, but would definately consider a Japanese home if there was a significant enough price difference for similarly sized homes). Does this sound correct?

2. Has anyone here got any experience with these import homes or have any companies they would recommend for building a decent home on the cheap (decent home = not a horribly shoddy piece of work for cheap but a well-built house, cheap AND shoddy I could do myself )?

3. Specifically interested in if anyone has any experience with Tokyu Homes and their Millcreek houses, since it seems we can have one built for somewhere around 30,000,000 yen. Any information on this specific company or other similar imported home companies would be greatly appreciated.

[Taro Toporific]

If you really moving fumbuck Tochigi and your budget is tight, there is no sane reason to build a house when buy an existing farm house with land for less than 10 million. Hell, I have young artist friends in Gumma prefecture who bought a world-heritage-quality minka farmhouse for 1.5 million yen and their neighbors helped them restore it for less than one million yen.
In the countryside remodeling labor costs are low. My family just gutted our 80+ year old rice ranch to the expose the joinery timbers. Then we rewired/replumbed/insulated/drywalled/refloored/double-glazed/upgraded kitchen for less than three million yen. We saved a bunch of money (300-500% savings) by importing a shipping container from the US with a kitchen package, oak flooring, double pane windows and all packed/separated with styrofoam building insulation that we used in the remodeling.

As for the 23 wards of Tokyo, believe it or not there are single-family houses (over 20 years old) on the market for less the 30 million yen. My friends just tore down their recently-deceased mother's perfectly-good, 25 year old house that was a 20 minute walk Machida station because nobody was willing to pay the 22 million asking price (the land is worth 15-25% more than 22 million yen).

[ttjereth]

If you really moving fumbuck Tochigi and your budget is tight, there is no sane reason to build a house when buy an existing farm house with land for less than 10 million. Hell, I have young artist friends in Gumma prefecture who bought a world-heritage-quality minka farmhouse for 1.5 million yen and their neighbors helped them restore it for less than one million yen.
In the countryside remodeling labor costs are low. My family just gutted our 80+ year old rice ranch to the expose the joinery timbers. Then we rewired/replumbed/insulated/drywalled/refloored/double-glazed/upgraded kitchen for less than three million yen. We saved a bunch of money (300-500% savings) by importing a shipping container from the US with a kitchen package, oak flooring, double pane windows and all packed/separated with styrofoam building insulation that we used in the remodeling.

There are specific reasons (although I doubt they could be called sane) we are probably going to build new, including but not limited to:

1. We want to live in a very specific area and there is nothing available there (I mean REALLY specific, an area within the equivalent of 10 or so city blocks).

2. Our lovely 40 year old Tokyo apartment has had pest problems (roaches and even rats at one point thanks to a contractor) which have both traumatized my wife and she will not live in an older building because they are more likely to have pests (her reasoning, not mine).

3. Ghosts. I wish this were a joke, but my wife's family are all "霊]
As for the 23 wards of Tokyo, believe it or not there are single-family houses (over 20 years old) on the market for less the 30 million yen. My friends just tore down their recently-deceased mother's perfectly-good, 25 year old house that was a 20 minute walk Machida station because nobody was willing to pay the 22 million asking price (the land is worth 15-25% more than 22 million yen).[/quote]
Again, can't be used, and we want a decent sized house (admittedly more a concession for me this time, but taking into account the above "reasons" I think I am allowed one point of pickiness), much larger than what the average Japanese family of 2 would be looking for, both for our own use and also because it is quite likely that my parents in law would eventually move in with us, and I'll be damned if I don't have at least one room that I can have all to myself.

Also some space between us and our neighbors (say more than a meter long strip between the houses) and an actual yard and such would be nice.

I don't actually mind moving out to the country again. There are some things that we'd be giving up in Tokyo, and the trip to Narita and back becomes a huge pain in the ass and all, but overall it's less expensive, less stressful, and just generally nicer than I've ever found Tokyo.

The whole idea of even looking for stuff in Tokyo is just a concession to the wife, but unless it was a really good deal for a decent sized plot of land, it's not a really huge consideration

[james]

my wife and i have still not built our house, nor at this point can i be sure that we ever will. we currently live with her parents. this has obvious benefits and drawbacks, that i doubt i need to detail here but to summarize:

free rent in a house that's much too big for two people anyway (70 tsubo). we pay our share of utilities, food etc and basically use the upstairs. my inaka one room english school w/ loft has been paid off for a couple of years now so i'm just banking and investing as much as i can.

the main drawback is my mother-in-law, who, though being a nice person, drives me batshit fucking insane with her junk, plants and certain habits.

we have looked at several builders. quickly ditched aifuru and tama home. don't even waste your time on aifuru. looked at selco, sekisui and ichijou. we initially started w/ sekisui but ended up dropping them. it just was not what we wanted and i really felt a lot of it was overpriced. i still hate japanese "system" kitchens. biggest fucking scam going. vinyl coated overcompartmentalized crap.

we are currently working with a local branch of maple homes - import house. this seems to be more in line with what we like and we're at a price point i can manage. they've been flexible and stuff overall seems more reasonable. central heating (electric), canadian / american windows doors and fixtures, a real kitchen, attached garage w/ auto-door and w/ walk-in to the main entrance, open floor kitchen/living/dining. bathroom, master bedroom and 2 bedrooms for the boys upstairs *plus* there will be about 300 sq ft of usable loft space where, if arranged right, i hope to put in a small bathroom, guest room, storage space and rec room for the kids (and me!).

the unfinished loft is not in the "official" plans, nor will it exist until certain inspections are complete after that, an access opening will be installed with retractable stairs or something along those lines and i hope to finish it off myself. that should prove interesting since i have zero experience.

since we've delayed so much, there may be an ikea near enough, if we decide we like their kitchen stuff better than what the builder is offering.

so *if* we build, we are definitely going with them and the current plan. if you'd like to see it, pm me and i'll email you a link to the pdf. we've literally put a couple years worth of planning into it and we're quite happy with the layout. maple has been flexible, listening to our ideas, my countless tweaks and revisions etc. they were even accomodating when i had no reserve in expressing my distaste for wallpaper. i'd rather prime and paint and let the wife pick out borders for the kitchens, bathrooms and bedrooms etc. maybe even bring some of that stuff over from canuckistan.

my main hesitation to build stems from a few factors:

- am i really going to be here long term? it's been almost 9 years, (got pr a couple years ago) i'm not sure how much longer i want to do what i'm doing now. i've stagnated intellectually (not saying much, mind you) and i'm having a bitch of a time deciding if i want to go back to canada.

- building here may preclude my going back to canada, mostly because of the whole negative equity thing. i'd be saddled with a mortgage on a house i can't sell. i'd settle for zero equity appreciation but that's not going to happen here. if i knew that i could sell down the line i'd have built awhile ago.

- perhaps i could find a renter should we decide we wanted to leave for awhile, i don't know. shimane is the second least populous prefecture in japan, second only to those hicks in tottori and it is surely one of the more aged ones. there were over 9000 people in this town when i first came. now there are about 7900. this is in the span of about 11 years.

- what do i do when the outlaws pass on? my wife is an only child. we'd then have two unsellable houses and possibly need neither.

- the current house is cold as fark in winter, but it's big, spacious and solidly built (pre-war). no aluminium siding or roofing to give it a nice 3rd world feel. it would be quite usable if we could clear out the mother-in-law's junk and maybe renovate the kitchen, bathroom and clean stuff up a bit, add insulation etc.

[ttjereth]

[quote="james"]my wife and i have still not built our house, nor at this point can i be sure that we ever will. we currently live with her parents. this has obvious benefits and drawbacks, that i doubt i need to detail here but to summarize:

free rent in a house that's much too big for two people anyway (70 tsubo). we pay our share of utilities, food etc and basically use the upstairs. my inaka one room english school w/ loft has been paid off for a couple of years now so i'm just banking and investing as much as i can.

the main drawback is my mother-in-law, who, though being a nice person, drives me batshit fucking insane with her junk, plants and certain habits.

we have looked at several builders. quickly ditched aifuru and tama home. don't even waste your time on aifuru. looked at selco, sekisui and ichijou. we initially started w/ sekisui but ended up dropping them. it just was not what we wanted and i really felt a lot of it was overpriced. i still hate japanese "system" kitchens. biggest fucking scam going. vinyl coated overcompartmentalized crap.

we are currently working with a local branch of maple homes - import house. this seems to be more in line with what we like and we're at a price point i can manage. they've been flexible and stuff overall seems more reasonable. central heating (electric), canadian / american windows doors and fixtures, a real kitchen, attached garage w/ auto-door and w/ walk-in to the main entrance, open floor kitchen/living/dining. bathroom, master bedroom and 2 bedrooms for the boys upstairs *plus* there will be about 300 sq ft of usable loft space where, if arranged right, i hope to put in a small bathroom, guest room, storage space and rec room for the kids (and me!).

the unfinished loft is not in the "official" plans, nor will it exist until certain inspections are complete ]


The idea of eventually living with the inlaws (them living with me actually) is fairly intimidating to me as well. A recent development where the mother in law all of the sudden broadsided me with " if you guys get this big house, can we come live with you when we get older?" at a family gathering, at which point I could hardly reply "give me some time to think about that" or "good god no!".

For the most part I like my parent's in law, but i could easily see them driving me absolutely insane.

Our current situation is actually somewhat similar to yours. We currently live rent free in an apartment in Tokyo owned by the father in law's company (by virtue of being on top of the company's warehouse), but the father in law will retire in a few years and we need to get out before then. Also undecided about the whole "remain in Japan forever thing", but also unsure of how keen I am on moving back to the states (the wife is all for it, realities of finding a job etc. aside).

But I figure since we are going to be here long enough that we will need to find someplace else to live than this apartment, I'd rather pay into a mortage than rent, and I REALLY want to live in a nice, big house again. There is probably not a day that goes by that I don't find myself really wishing I could just have a nice big old house to flop down in and peacefully spend a few years after having spent the past 14 or so moving between various other people's homes, dormitories, apartments, etc.

I can see how the possibility of inheriting a big old house would make you think twice about buying another however. I'd still want to buy another place even if we were set to inherit the parent in laws house, but odds are the best we could hope for with that would be to sell the house and split the money with my sister in law anyway. So farts to that.

We're looking most seriously at Tokyu Homes Millcreek houses right now, but are by no means decided on going with them. Were also looking at Sekisui but your posts in the other thread and a little independent research on Japanese sites seems to indicate they are going to be too overpriced for us, also considering Maple Homes (they have a few designs we really like as well), Selco, and Florence Garden (although neither of us is too crazy about most of the Selco and Florence Garden pre-designed and therefore cheaper houses).

Haven't really even gotten down to the real nitty gritty details of the interior yet, but there's a lot of stuff we definately want and things we need space/rooms for, like:

• The kitchen is really important to us, since we both like to cook and I fucking hate the average, tiny no cubpoard/counter space Japanese kitchens and the goddamn low countertops/sinks (at 175 cm I'm not even remotely tall and they still seem too short to me...), so we'd like to have a nice big kitchen with an island, plenty of counter space and a real oven.

• A sort of exercise room of sorts, mainly needs to be a room dedicated to this for my sandbag which isn't something that just sits in a corner of any old room very well (currently in the warehouse downstairs).

• A room for the eventual invasion of the parents in law.

• Space for people to stay, since being close to a few tourist spots we expect guests staying with us to be fairly common.

• An office for me so that I can work in peace (read: lock the damn door because I can't get the concept that even though I work at home, when I am working my wife should pretend I am not even home and not ask me to help with housework or stop in for idle chitchat). I imagine this will be even more important once the in-laws move in.

And then there are the little dreams like "wow wouldn't it be great to actually have a space where I could use my dartboard, and maybe someday own a pool table, or a yard big enough and far enough away from the neighbors that we could actually bbq in the summers".

Other than that it's basically a matter of getting as big a house as we can for as little money as possible. I can't imagine being too bother by having too much space, but can easily see us running out of space

We actually live fairly close to ikea right now (we're in Edogawa-ku in Tokyo, 3 trains stops and we're in Chiba), but I haven't been yet. I'm not terribly picky about the fixtures and stuff, but anything that ends up making the whole process less expensive is worth looking into.

A friend of mine was friends with someone at a housing/real estate firm and what he ended up doing is getting all of the fixtures and stuff from one of that companies model rooms for free when the company changed the model room. Essentially didn't pay anything for the majority of his bathroom and kitchen, the lucky bastard.

I like the secret attic. I wonder if I could get them to build me a secret room without telling my wife about it

I'll PM you for the PDF, thanks for the offer. Most of these places seem to keep so much from you until later on in the negotiations/process it's nice to get as much information as possible from other sources.

I've been reading a few Japanese sites as well, and it seems the Tokyu Homes places end up running about 30,000,000 yen once all is said and done, but considering the tiny little house next to us sold for that much here in Tokyo, even that seems like a bargain...

[TennoChinko]

If building outside of Tokyo, two additional imported home companies to take a look at:

SWEDEN HOUSE:
http://www.swedenhouse.co.jp/

LINDAL CEDAR HOMES:
http://www.lindaljapan.com/
http://www.lindal.com (US site)

[Taro Toporific]

... the current house is cold as fark in winter, but it's big, spacious and solidly built (pre-war). no aluminium siding or roofing to give it a nice 3rd world feel. it would be quite usable if we could clear out the [U]mother-in-law's junk [/U]and maybe renovate the kitchen, bathroom and clean stuff up a bit, add insulation etc.

Oh, I feel your pain. Japanese are worse than worse Appalachian hillbillies in terms of junking out a place. Less than a year since my down-to-raw-timbers remodel of the farmhouse and the family has turned it into a trashpit. My new-remodeled condo in Tokyo has piles a fetid junk in the living room with any hope of pitching it out.

AND, that pre-war house of yours will be a palace once you inherit it provided you can control your wife's primeval Japanese junk urges (I sure can't).

[ttjereth]

If building outside of Tokyo, two additional imported home companies to take a look at:

SWEDEN HOUSE:
http://www.swedenhouse.co.jp/

LINDAL CEDAR HOMES:
http://www.lindaljapan.com/
http://www.lindal.com (US site)

Yeah, actually ran across both of these companies, but neither the wife nor I was much impressed with Sweden House. Most of the homes look like the weird Japanese-styled homes that seem to be the fashion of late.

Lindal is really nice. Absolutely beautiful homes, that I will never, ever, be able to afford. Just getting their catalog costs 4000 yen

[ttjereth]

[Taro Toporific]

If building outside of Tokyo, two additional imported home companies to take a look at:

SWEDEN HOUSE:
http://www.swedenhouse.co.jp/

LINDAL CEDAR HOMES:
http://www.lindaljapan.com/
http://www.lindal.com (US site)

Both these companies put out a wonderful product (wildly expensive for kit housing), and both companies can provide Japanese engineering documentation that will make Japanese building inspectors happy. All these major foreign kit housing brands including Millcreek houses are good for dealing with insane-xenophobic Japanese building inspectors in more urban areas---in the countryside anything goes and cheaper kit houses are ok.

Please be aware that outside the major brands, quality "vacation house" kits can be bought on the West Coast of Canada and the USA for less than $40,000 USD. Last October, I found a 900sq/ft (83sq/m) gingerbread cottage fully built for $38,000 USD. It was designed for installation in cold and remote mountain environments and was split in two sections that ought to fit in two larger-size shipping containers. Saaaa, the key phrase was "ought to"---I would have had to special order a kit with a lower roof pitch to that 'guaranteed to fit.'

[james]

The idea of eventually living with the inlaws (them living with me actually) is fairly intimidating to me as well.

all i can say, and i can't say it emphatically enough is don't. prevention is the best cure, cause once they're in, there's only one way they'll be going out ]Our current situation is actually somewhat similar to yours. We currently live rent free in an apartment in Tokyo owned by the father in law's company (by virtue of being on top of the company's warehouse), but the father in law will retire in a few years and we need to get out before then. Also undecided about the whole "remain in Japan forever thing", but also unsure of how keen I am on moving back to the states (the wife is all for it, realities of finding a job etc. aside).[/quote]

very similar it would seem, since in my case, it's also the wife who is more gung-ho about moving back to canuckistan. i, on the other hand, am well aware of my current lack of qualifications and i know it would be a financial ass-reaming.

but odds are the best we could hope for with that would be to sell the house and split the money with my sister in law anyway. So farts to that.

well, not to discourage you but zero divided by two is still zero. the land may have some value, the house is very likely a negative, unless it would make a suitable rental property with your wife and her sister splitting income.

[*]The kitchen is really important to us, since we both like to cook and I fucking hate the average, tiny no cubpoard/counter space Japanese kitchens and the goddamn low countertops/sinks (at 175 cm I'm not even remotely tall and they still seem too short to me...), so we'd like to have a nice big kitchen with an island, plenty of counter space and a real oven.[/LIST]

flying spaghetti monster yes, our kitchen is a disaster. strike that, it's in need of a disaster. i'm a towering 172 cm myself and the low sinks kill me. there is no counter space and it's full to the brim with shit.

A room for the eventual invasion of the parents in law.

[LIST]

see above ][*]An office for me so that I can work in peace (read: lock the damn door because I can't get the concept that even though I work at home,[/quote]

my plan has that too.

I'll PM you for the PDF, thanks for the offer. Most of these places seem to keep so much from you until later on in the

no problem, i'll be watching for it.

I've been reading a few Japanese sites as well, and it seems the Tokyu Homes places end up running about 30,000,000 yen once all is said and done

that's about what we're looking at.

[ttjereth]

Both these companies put out a wonderful product (wildly expensive for kit housing), and both companies can provide Japanese engineering documentation that will make Japanese building inspectors happy. All these major foreign kit housing brands including Millcreek houses are good for dealing with insane-xenophobic Japanese building inspectors in more urban areas---in the countryside anything goes and cheaper kit houses are ok.

Please be aware that outside the major brands, quality "vacation house" kits can be bought on the West Coast of Canada and the USA for less than $40,000 USD. Last October, I found a 900sq/ft (83sq/m) gingerbread cottage fully built for $38,000 USD. It was designed for installation in cold and remote mountain environments and was split in two sections that ought to fit in two larger-size shipping containers. Saaaa, the key phrase was "ought to"---I would have had to special order a kit with a lower roof pitch to that 'guaranteed to fit.'

Can't find the links at the moment, but I've read some horror stories about trying to 1. get someone here who would be willing to do the work on the imported kits and 2. get all the inspections done without ending up paying out the ass for all kinds of modifications the inspector finds to be necessary, or even having it failed.

You know of anyone who has succesfully gone the route of importing something themselves?

[ttjereth]

all i can say, and i can't say it emphatically enough is don't. prevention is the best cure, cause once they're in, there's only one way they'll be going out ]

We live about 10 minutes from them now and they still manage to intrude into our lives enough to irritate me once in awhile.

My wife has these irritating habits of not believing a word I say but instantly believing the exact same thing when said by my mother law, which the mother in law loves of course, and consulting the M.i.L. on EVERYTHING. I shit you not, she called her to ask what I should wear to a wedding reception a few weeks ago, apparently completly forgetting that I've been able to competently dress myself for at least 25 years or so now

But they are talking about moving in when it comes down to "move in with us or head to the old folks home" type of thing, so hopefully it won't be too bad by then. If it is I'll just end up spending a lot more time in that office mentioned below, because there's practically no way to tell them no

very similar it would seem, since in my case, it's also the wife who is more gung-ho about moving back to canuckistan. i, on the other hand, am well aware of my current lack of qualifications and i know it would be a financial ass-reaming.

I also don't fancy doing the whole day job/office commute thing ever again. I like being self employed, but it's kind of hard to maintain relationships with some clients when I am on the other side of the planet, and even harder to find new ones

well, not to discourage you but zero divided by two is still zero. the land may have some value, the house is very likely a negative, unless it would make a suitable rental property with your wife and her sister splitting income.

Yeah, consider that a typo. I meant "destroy the house and sell the land". At the moment the land is worth a pretty penny, being quite close to the station, but I figure the way my luck runs by the time it was actually sold it probably won't even cover funeral costs and such (am I bastard for thinking about that? ).

flying spaghetti monster yes, our kitchen is a disaster. strike that, it's in need of a disaster. i'm a towering 172 cm myself and the low sinks kill me. there is no counter space and it's full to the brim with shit.

My wife is the same height as me an has a bad back so she hates them too. Seriously, washing the dishes shouldn't be a physically painful ordeal.

see above ]
Lumpy matresses and funny smelling pillows...

that's about what we're looking at.

It honestly makes me sad when looking at nearly a 1/3 of million dollars can be considered cheap...

[TennoChinko]

Can't find the links at the moment, but I've read some horror stories about trying to 1. get someone here who would be willing to do the work on the imported kits and 2. get all the inspections done without ending up paying out the ass for all kinds of modifications the inspector finds to be necessary, or even having it failed.

You know of anyone who has successfully gone the route of importing something themselves?

I know this link has been posted before, but worth a look:

http://www.debito.org/residentspage.html#HOUSEBUILDING

If you're building outside of Tokyo, less regs generally mean an easier ride getting an import house built and approved. I know one friend who did just that out in the hinterlands of Chiba. Mistakes and erroneous shortcuts that would have proved 100% disasterous if in Tokyo managed to be overcome (at both cost and time) by bringing in outside contractors to help. It was quite an ugly scene but the result was stunning.

I also had a friend who razed down their lot and rebuilt on top of it (in a major provincial city). From the outside, it looks like a utilitarian grey monster block house. However, the inside is all custom - with imported furnishings, custom kitchen etc. They used a local architect who came highly recommended. The plus-side is that by being in the city, and having a Western interior - they have been able to lease the house out to foreign expats through an asset management company during the time they are out of country. .... that's one thing you might want to consider when considering both location and also design.

[james]

My wife has these irritating habits of not believing a word I say but instantly believing the exact same thing when said by my mother law

same here, only it's her friends, or the news or whatever. that or she'll come around to something i've said months ago.

by then. If it is I'll just end up spending a lot more time in that office mentioned below, because there's practically no way to tell them no

well perhaps "financial constraints" may make it "difficult" for you to build beyond a certain size. actually, you may very well find this to be the case. 3000 man is pretty much my upper limit and that gets us 42 tsubo plus loft.

but I figure the way my luck runs by the time it was actually sold it probably won't even cover funeral costs and such (am I bastard for thinking about that? ).

nah, i think that's normal. funerals here are quite the industry.

My wife is the same height as me an has a bad back so she hates them too. Seriously, washing the dishes shouldn't be a physically painful ordeal.

i don't think it should be either. i sincerely hope we can get a decent dishwasher at some point. don't remember if our plans include one or not. i think they may though.

It honestly makes me sad when looking at nearly a 1/3 of million dollars can be considered cheap...

for me, it's more the fact that the money goes into something with damn near zero equity.

[james]

Oh, I feel your pain. Japanese are worse than Appalachian hillbillies in terms of junking out a place. Less than a year since my down-to-raw-timbers remodel of the farmhouse and the family has turned it into a trashpit. My new-remodeled condo in Tokyo has piles a fetid junk in the living room without any hope of pitching it out.

i don't doubt it. doesn't it drive you insane? i'd really like to know where this all-pervasive penchant for collecting so much crap comes from. people here (that are not fg) that don't have heaps and heaps of crap in their houses are few and far between.

we had a garage built beside our school and in no time flat it was filled with my mother-in-law's shit. some of the stuff in there is ours, but i'm making it my mission this year to purge as much as possible. some of her "stuff" may also disappear when she's not looking.

AND, that pre-war house of yours will be a palace once you inherit it provided you can control your wife's primeval Japanese junk urges (I sure can't).

it's definitely a nice house, though in need of some work. my wife won't have any say in the matter. we've already had it out on this and she knows my position and to not even try me on it. it's gonna be one bitch of a cleaning job though.

[dimwit]

Never ever ever allow your in-laws to move in with you. It is not just a foreigner nihonjin friction problem, morning shows spend hour after hours describing the japanese couples that have had to live with the parents.

Our house is being built by a Japanese company but the architect/designer was a foreigner so that the house will look very western styled. Generally the old style fragile wooden houses and crappy post war concrete monster are giving way to modern building techniques so I am not sure that the advantages of an imported house are what they used to be.

[ttjereth]

I know this link has been posted before, but worth a look:

http://www.debito.org/residentspage.html#HOUSEBUILDING

If you're building outside of Tokyo, less regs generally mean an easier ride getting an import house built and approved. I know one friend who did just that out in the hinterlands of Chiba. Mistakes and erroneous shortcuts that would have proved 100% disasterous if in Tokyo managed to be overcome (at both cost and time) by bringing in outside contractors to help. It was quite an ugly scene but the result was stunning.

I also had a friend who razed down their lot and rebuilt on top of it (in a major provincial city). From the outside, it looks like a utilitarian grey monster block house. However, the inside is all custom - with imported furnishings, custom kitchen etc. They used a local architect who came highly recommended. The plus-side is that by being in the city, and having a Western interior - they have been able to lease the house out to foreign expats through an asset management company during the time they are out of country. .... that's one thing you might want to consider when considering both location and also design.

Yeah I've read Debito's essay. There's some useful information, but he also went with a local builder, so there isn't much on having a full kit built locally by someone who isn't making money on the import etc.

I'll have to check into the regulations and stuff up in Tochigi. I used to work in the local city hall and still have plenty of friends, so hopefully that will provide some leeway. If I could buy and import a kit myself, like Taro suggested, but have a local company do the actual work (I really don't want to build my own house) then that would easily save me at least 10 million yen, I'm sure.

Unfortunately, I remember reading someone who had posted about trying to do just such and it being a disaster. I think it might have been on the Gaijin DIY list in one of the other threads, but I haven't found it again yet.

Location, as I mentioned, is sort of locked in, unless we could get something of comparable size at a comparable price in Tokyo (which is doubtful at best).

[ttjereth]

same here, only it's her friends, or the news or whatever. that or she'll come around to something i've said months ago.

Does she then seem to "forget" that it was you who originally said it in the first place? ]
well perhaps "financial constraints" may make it "difficult" for you to build beyond a certain size. actually, you may very well find this to be the case. 3000 man is pretty much my upper limit and that gets us 42 tsubo plus loft.
[/quote]

Part of the agreement of the in-laws moving in when they are ready to be put to pasture is them kicking in money in lieu of reforming their own home for the umpteenth time, so even that won't fly since I know I'd get the "the amount we paid should be enough to have a single extra bedroom" arguement

nah, i think that's normal. funerals here are quite the industry.

My wife's father's family is quite loaded. All the siblings except my wife's father have heaps of money and they are all avaricious bastards. The oldest brother has the most money by far, and has diabetes and a host of other problems which keep him bed-bound. All of the vultures are constantly hovering over him whenever he has a bad turn, hoping to get at his money and house when he kicks it. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into some sort of litigious free-for-all once he dies with that bunch. Even the father in law hopes to get the house since he is the one who actually does all the caretaking for the old bastard (did I mention oldest brother is just about one of the most horrible people I've ever met?).

i don't think it should be either. i sincerely hope we can get a decent dishwasher at some point. don't remember if our plans include one or not. i think they may though.

Yeah, the wife wants a dishwasher as well. I keep trying to explain that having one doesn't mean she'll never have to wash a dish again...

for me, it's more the fact that the money goes into something with damn near zero equity.

Pretty much anything that causes me to pay out money causes me physical pain which increases exponentially for each 0 added to the amount I have to pay out. Where we'll probably be buying the land and house would be near worthless if we ever decided to get rid of it as well, but I'd still rather pay the mortage and own something, rather than fart my money away on rent to live in something I like less.

[james]

Does she then seem to "forget" that it was you who originally said it in the first place? ]

of course. wouldn't have it any other way. i used to get fired up (still do) about morons who'd drive around with their kids unsecured in the car, sitting on grandma's lap behind the wheel (i shit you not) etc. shimane has by far the worst compliance rate for properly securing children. she'd give me shit for calling them idiots but now gets upset herself when she sees this and does the same thing.

sucks about not having a way to keep the inlaws out. not sure what to suggest but not a happy proposition. how old are they? are they "accident" prone? personally, i can't wait to gut this place of all the junk but i think it'll be a long while yet before that. i have this nightmare scenario of my mother-in-law living until she's 90 and the amount of crap in here increasing by yet another order of magnitude. i won't exactly be young myself by then.

and house when he kicks it. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into some sort of litigious free-for-all once he dies with that bunch.

at least i won't have to deal with that with my wife being an only child. family infighting sucks and it's probably best to extricate yourself as much as possible.

Yeah, the wife wants a dishwasher as well.

well the way things are here now, i have a dishwasher but the wife doesn't

[ttjereth]

of course. wouldn't have it any other way. i used to get fired up (still do) about morons who'd drive around with their kids unsecured in the car, sitting on grandma's lap behind the wheel (i shit you not) etc. shimane has by far the worst compliance rate for properly securing children. she'd give me shit for calling them idiots but now gets upset herself when she sees this and does the same thing.

My wife and I both say nasty things about people on television a lot, but for some reason when I say it, it's bad and I shouldn't talk about people that way, but it's okay when she does it. Or she conviniently forgets that she ever said anything at all

sucks about not having a way to keep the inlaws out. not sure what to suggest but not a happy proposition. how old are they? are they "accident" prone? personally, i can't wait to gut this place of all the junk but i think it'll be a long while yet before that. i have this nightmare scenario of my mother-in-law living until she's 90 and the amount of crap in here increasing by yet another order of magnitude. i won't exactly be young myself by then.

They're 50 and 60 something, and both of them still having living parents in their 80's and 90's, so little hope that route. I'm sure it will come back to haunt me, but I don't mind the idea too much now. If anything, my mother in law living there would mean the house would be cleaner, since my wife doesn't clean very often

at least i won't have to deal with that with my wife being an only child. family infighting sucks and it's probably best to extricate yourself as much as possible.

I don't think we'd get involved. My wife and her sister are on okay terms of late, but I doubt either of them would graciously let the other have the parent's house without some recompense. The uncle stuff, that's my father in law's problem. That uncle dislikes me and I dislike him, so we were never in any danger of inheriting anything anyway

[quote="james"]
well the way things are here now, i have a dishwasher but the wife doesn't ]

I married a Tokyo girl who's father owns his own company... needless to say, housework is not her forte

[dimwit]

The oldest brother has the most money by far, and has diabetes and a host of other problems which keep him bed-bound. All of the vultures are constantly hovering over him whenever he has a bad turn, hoping to get at his money and house when he kicks it. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns into some sort of litigious free-for-all once he dies with that bunch. Even the father in law hopes to get the house since he is the one who actually does all the caretaking for the old bastard (did I mention oldest brother is just about one of the most horrible people I've ever met?).

Did I mention New Year's mochi?:)

[Mulboyne]

Not related to the immediate problem but since this is the most current thread:

Economist: Homes in Japan last for only 30 years. The government wants to change that

[floatl][/floatl]HOUSES in Japan are supposed to be built to withstand earthquakes. Even so, few of them defy demolition for more than a few decades. The housing stock is amazingly young: more than 60% of all Japanese homes were built after 1980 (see chart). That is because there is almost no market for old homes in Japan. New legislation to be put forward this month will try to remedy that.

The roots of Japan's unusual housing market go back centuries. Buildings were often razed by earthquakes or fire, so durable houses were rare. Earthquake insurance largely did not exist until the 1990s (and even today is little used).

In post-war Japan land has value but buildings do not. The law separates the ownership of the land and the structure, so the two are distinct in Japanese minds. After the war, the government sought to foster private home-ownership by offering tax incentives for new buildings. The policy was a great success. Arguably too great: by 1968 there were more homes than households to occupy them.

At the same time, tax burdens abound for selling land with old buildings. After around 30 years homes are demolished for new ones to spring up. Because the lifetime of houses is short, cheap construction materials are used and the buildings are not maintained. There is no tradition of do-it-yourself home upkeep. Just as there is little interest in secondhand furniture or clothes among the sanitation-obsessed Japanese, so too home-owners prefer to build anew rather than refurbish the old.

There is also a dearth of institutions and expertise that might oil the gears of a market in old houses, from surveyors to judge the quality of a property to banks that assess its value and provide a mortgage. As a result, where 89% of British homes have had more than one owner, and 78% of homes in America and 66% in France, only 13% of Japanese homes have ever been resold.

But attitudes today are changing. The constant rebuilding places an unnecessary drain on people's financial resources, says Koichi Teramoto of the Ministry of Land. A couple easing into retirement may demolish their house to sell the land in order to move into a smaller abode that they must then build from scratch. Although better-built homes cost more up front, they cost far less over time―as much as one-third less after a few generations, according to Mr Teramoto. The ministry also worries that the constant demolition is terrible for the environment.

The costs to the wider economy are also great. A home is more than a man's castle: it is typically his most important financial asset. Not in Japan. For most of the post-war period land prices soared, so the lack of a housing resale market was not a problem. But since the bursting of the property bubble in the early 1990s, most land prices have fallen: some are as much as 80% off their peak. That houses also depreciate in value constrains consumption and adds to deflationary pressures; which in turn pushes people to be particularly cautious savers (more than 50% of Japan's household wealth is kept as cash in bank accounts) and helps to keep interest rates barely above zero.

To remedy the problem, the prime minister, Yasuo Fukuda, this month plans to introduce new tax rules to encourage the construction of more durable buildings. Under a draft of the “200-year homes” policy, national, regional and municipal property taxes may be reduced by between 25% and 75% for up to seven years for houses that adhere to robust building standards. Mortgages for such homes can be longer (50 years as opposed to the traditional maximum of 35 years) and building approvals will be simpler.

Property experts think these measures are too timid, however. They argue that a true market for used homes needs standardised methods of construction, as well as more transparency about the quality and value of houses. Far more generous tax incentives are vital too. Until then, homes in Japan will continue to fare like the country's ubiquitous electronic gadgets: be treated as disposable.

[dimwit]

It was been changing Mulboyne. DIY is arguablely one of the fastest growing industries here. I have notice that in Matsuyama the traditional hardware store are being replaced by home renoviation centers.

Houses in general, are being better built and people are becoming more aware of better looking exterior design.

In general, what I see being torn down around Matsuyama are early post-war slap dab construction and poor quality concrete dormatories of the 1960-70 era. I can't think of anything I have seen torn down around here that is of any value.

[james]

as usual..

very interesting read. i've recently become quite interested in diy, but my current experience is very limited. i've done the maintenance on my school such as sanding the whole thing down and repainting with proper weather guard. the exterior is rounded wood panelling to give it the look of a log cabin and the original exterior paint was cheap crap. other things like fixing the deck and other minor stuff, but installing wall trusses, drywalling and doing real renos and things like building cabinets and bathrooms is quite beyond me at the moment. it's definitely something i could get into i think.

would be interested in recommended reading for reno n00bs. i'm 1/4 italian so i'm sure it's in my blood

recently subscribed to the gaijin diy mailing list on yahoo, but i really wish they'd move to a forum based format, i just find it much more practical and accessible.

[Grumblebum]

Since we moved into our house I've done a fair bit of DIY - its surprising what you can do once you put your mind to it and invest in some decent tools. I've probably spent about 100,000yen on a variety of good power and hand tools, and they've already more than paid for themselves.

I'm in the last stages of building out a room in our attic - I paid a guy to put in a trapdoor/ladder thing, but in hindsight I probably could have done that
myself too.

What's the gaijin diy mailing list? Is it this one:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gdiy/

Regarding dishwashers, we got a proper one when we moved - a Miele which cost about 180,000yen at the time, and has been worth every yen.

[GomiGirl]

Regarding dishwashers, we got a proper one when we moved - a Miele which cost about 180,000yen at the time, and has been worth every yen.

Am jealous!!

As I live with a fabulous chef who uses heaps of pots and pans, I am left with the dishes..

[Greji]

Am jealous!!

As I live with a fabulous chef who uses heaps of pots and pans, I am left with the dishes..

My dish washer was made in Hokkaido and she is pretty slow, but very cheap!

[james]

Since we moved into our house I've done a fair bit of DIY - its surprising what you can do once you put your mind to it and invest in some decent tools. I've probably spent about 100,000yen on a variety of good power and hand tools, and they've already more than paid for themselves.

i feel a dumb question coming on so i'll ask - how did you learn? were there certain books you bought that you just followed or was this some latent natural talent / previous experience that you have?

What's the gaijin diy mailing list? Is it this one:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gdiy/

that's the one!

[emperor]