Home solar panel system....worth it?

[Yokohammer]

check the wiki...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_platform

Types_of_offshore_oil_and_gas_structures.jpg

type 4 to 8 are floaty.

anchored to the sea floor do not mean resting on the sea floor.

OK, so which type were they talking about in the quote you posted above?

[matsuki]

From the pic, it could be 4, 7, or 8??

[Wage Slave]

From the pic, it could be 4, 7, or 8??

Yep, it looks to be a semi submersible and quite a piece of kit it is. And yes, it floats so earthquakes aren't going to affect it very much.

The issue with an earthquake would (I suppose) be damage to the wellhead(s) on the sea floor and the risers up to the platform. Either they have built in sufficient flexibility to withstand extreme movement or they have designed it so the risers will just disconnect at a moment's notice. There will always (except in the case of BP) be a working BOP stack on the sea floor which will actuate to shut the well in.

Likely they have designed in both, hence the earthquake proof claim.

[matsuki]

...back to the solar panels, I thought there were already 2 or 3 Japanese companies that offered systems to take you off grid? (their own power storage) I've seen a bunch of kits in the US, using car batteries and such.

Getting off that fucked tap and being able to run whatever amp breakers you want would be awesome...especially during disasters. (just don't let the neighbors know or suddenly your place may be commandeered for community cooking and bathing)

[Salty]

...back to the solar panels, I thought there were already 2 or 3 Japanese companies that offered systems to take you off grid? (their own power storage) I've seen a bunch of kits in the US, using car batteries and such.

Getting off that fucked tap and being able to run whatever amp breakers you want would be awesome...especially during disasters. (just don't let the neighbors know or suddenly your place may be commandeered for community cooking and bathing)

There may be, I don`t know - but it would be very expensive IMO, requiring a massive investment. A very rich person could afford to go off-grid, but then why?

Now if you lived in the middle of the mountains, where no power lines were extended, and never ate out (`cause restaurants were hours away), etc., etc. - then to power your one light bulb and of course a wine chiller - then yes, by all means, go for it.

[matsuki]

The ones I saw in the US were pretty basic, just required enough space for all the batteries.

[Wage Slave]

The ones I saw in the US were pretty basic, just required enough space for all the batteries.

What sort of capacity did they have? If you are going to run aircon, fridge, IT equipment and lighting you need at least 3Kw.

[Coligny]

Hmmm... Guys...

In the 3-4 milliuns yens range there are already 2 turnkey options for houses with the proper loadswitch at the panel...

image.jpg

Battery backup. Chargeable by the house solar installation.

image.jpg

Battery backup, and 1 week of power for the house on a gas tank.

Plus, they also do car the rest of the time.

I'd be curious how much the overcharge here for propane (or is it butane, I suck at chemistry worse than at math.) power generators...

[matsuki]

The ones I saw in the US were pretty basic, just required enough space for all the batteries.

What sort of capacity did they have? If you are going to run aircon, fridge, IT equipment and lighting you need at least 3Kw.

I'll see if I can find the video but it was a pretty big ass home so it was definitely running more than a fridge and such. I think they had some sort of natural AC tower misting system though.

Coligny, the leaf is an abomination but that Mitsu is aiight.

[Russell]

Price loopholes mar renewable energy sales

Flaws have been found in the renewable energy purchase system as an increasing number of start-up power utilities are boosting their income by reselling electricity bought from solar power producers to other electric power companies, it has been learned.

Since electric power retailing was liberalized in 2000, new power generating companies have been allowed to enter the market to sell electricity to major corporate clients. Sources said that such firms can achieve more profit by selling electricity to other power companies through the Japan Electric Power Exchange (JEPX), a wholesale electric power market, than by selling it retail.

The Economy, Trade and Industry Ministry will likely study measures to bring about a proper electricity transaction system, sources said.

Major power utilities such as Tokyo Electric Power Co. and new power generation firms buy electricity generated by solar power for ¥32 to ¥40 per kilowatt-hour from solar power generators, and then sell it for about ¥10 to their corporate clients, among others. The purchase price is set by the government.

The government provides subsidies to the firms to make up for losses from the gap between the purchase and selling prices. Payments to cover the losses are added to the electricity rates of households and corporate clients in the form of a cooperation fund to promote renewable energy.

The overall amount of the cooperation fund was about ¥300 billion in fiscal 2013 and about ¥650 billion in fiscal 2014, according to the sources.

Meanwhile, some start-up utilities resell solar electricity at about ¥15 to ¥20 to major electric companies through the JEPX.

As major power utilities are rather short of electricity due to the suspension of nuclear power plants, they purchase electricity through the market despite the high electricity prices in many cases.

If a new power generating firm purchases solar electricity at ¥40 per kilowatt-hour and sells it for about ¥15 to ¥20 to a major electric company through the JEPX, the firm is supposed to receive about ¥20 to ¥25 per kilowatt-hour in subsidies from the government.

However, under the current system, the selling price is believed to be about ¥10, and such firms can therefore receive about ¥30 per kilowatt-hour in subsidies.

According to sources close to the power industry, about 10 electric companies are believed to receive substantial subsidies by reselling the electricity.

If a power utility resells about 1,000 kilowatts of electricity at ¥15 per kilowatt-hour through the JEPX, it can increase its income by about ¥10 million on an annual basis, observers said.

A source close to the power industry said there must be companies that have boosted their income by hundreds of millions of yen through this reselling method.

“We’re just selling spare electricity at the market,” an official of a new power generating company said.

The government sets the selling price of electricity at about ¥10 across the board, as it is difficult to grasp the exact price of each reselling transaction because the price fluctuates continuously.

If the trading price on the wholesale market is lowered, this situation would not readily occur. In Europe, for instance, many electric companies sell spare electricity at wholesale markets, which prevents market prices from staying at a high level, according to observers. In Japan, about 1 percent of electricity used in the nation is sold on the wholesale market.

The ministry will likely start discussing measures to deal with the situation at an experts’ meeting before the end of this fiscal year.

More

[matsuki]

Payments to cover the losses are added to the electricity rates of households and corporate clients in the form of a cooperation fund to promote renewable energy.

Japanese "cooperation"

[Russell]

Harnessing the power of community to drive an energy revolution

Watch Kazuaki Hashimoto chopping firewood for the following winter on a baking day at the end of April, and you may be forgiven for thinking he leads a rather old-fashioned lifestyle.

But Hashimoto, who recently moved from a house with an air conditioner and electric heater in each room to an energy-efficient house with a single wood stove, is at the forefront of a distinctly cutting-edge movement: living off-grid.

Hashimoto and his wife Haruko are the latest household in this lush valley in the Fujino district of Sagamihara to install an off-grid system devised by Fujino Power, a local group seeking to educate citizens about energy and empower them to generate their own electricity.

The system allows households to live partially off-grid by dividing lights and appliances between two circuit boards, one hooked up to solar panels and the other to the grid of Tokyo Electric Power Co. Surplus solar energy is stored in car batteries that the Hashimotos have housed outside in a wooden box fashioned to look like a dog kennel.

“This is so much more interesting than just installing solar panels to sell energy back to the grid,” says Hashimoto. “We’ve had nothing but a positive experience since we started using the system . . . our only regret is that we didn’t put in more Fujino Power sockets. I guess we were initially a little doubtful about whether it would be enough to serve our energy needs, but now we see that we didn’t need to be.”

While Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s devotion to nuclear power and lackluster reforms on renewables have dashed hopes of an energy revolution four years on from the Fukushima nuclear disaster, small-scale, grass-roots efforts such as Fujino Power are flourishing.

The government’s Basic Energy Plan, released in April, predicted renewable sources would contribute 22 to 24 percent of Japan’s energy needs by 2030, barely more than 2010′s estimate of 21 percent. The shortfall from nuclear power — now expected to make up 20 to 22 percent of energy in 2030 instead of the 53 percent foreseen in 2010 — is expected to be mostly covered by imported oil and gas.

By contrast, Germany’s response to Fukushima was to target renewable sources to supply 45 percent of its energy by 2030 and commit to closing all its nuclear power plants by 2022.

Despite hefty private investment into mega-solar farms and storage batteries, growth in the domestic solar market is now waning after the government withdrew subsidies last year. Several of Japan’s regional utilities are now refusing new contracts with mid- to large-size solar suppliers, saying their grids are unable to handle the surges in power. A consumer boom for energy-efficient devices and houses, meanwhile, has done little to crack open the “black box” of Japan’s monopolistic energy companies.

Regardless of the disheartening lack of action at a national level, there is hope in the quiet energy revolution bubbling up in town and villages across Japan, with dozens of bottom-up community initiatives generating local solar, wind or hydropower energy.

Freelance journalist Masaki Takahashi, who wrote a book about the movement called “Gotochi Denryoku Hajimemashita!” (“Local Energy Projects Have Started”) says the rhetoric is moving beyond schisms between the pro- and anti-nuclear camps as groups make a long-term commitment to generating energy that transcend the quick-fix steps to conserve electricity taken in 2011.

“There are a number of people who want to force an energy shift. It will take time and it is hard to make an impact, but the movement is taking a new shape as energy generation is being linked to community-building,” says Takahashi, who says there are as many as 100 local energy projects around the country.

Unsurprisingly, Fukushima is at the locus of the local energy movement, with six initiatives by Takahashi’s count that aim to support the prefectural government’s commitment to sourcing 100 percent of its energy from renewable sources by 2040.

But remarkably, local energy initiatives are spread evenly all over the country, even in Kyushu, Japan’s southernmost island, where citizens are furthest from the consequences of the Fukushima disaster.

Many of the projects leverage existing community networks, such as a 30-strong group of friends in Odawara, Kanagawa Prefecture, who dug up the stone remains of a small hydroelectric generation waterway owned by one of the member’s grandfathers. Other projects have brought together disparate groups that had previously had little contact with each other, forging relationships between ordinary citizens, local government officials and staff at local banks.

That model was pioneered by the town of Iida in Nagano Prefecture in 2004, where a progressive mayor helped push through the Ohisama project, a citizen-funded scheme to install solar panels on the roofs of public facilities, schools and private residences. Profits from selling back to the grid are recirculated among citizens. The same model has been replicated in several other community solar projects around the country.

In all the projects, the initiatives rely on the strong leadership of a few core individuals, who overcome local opposition and skepticism by gaining people’s trust.

At Fujino Power, that role fell to Shuntaro Suzuki, who spearheaded a series of workshops to teach people to make their own solar-power battery packs, which have now been attended by over 1,100 people. Suzuki later qualified as an electrician and started to install off-grid systems across town. He has now fitted the system in 29 households, including the Hashimotos’.

Suzuki, a physical therapist by trade, began experimenting with generating his own electricity in 2006, when he hooked up a 7-watt solar-powered yacht battery to replace his aging car’s temperamental battery. When his house was affected by Tepco’s scheduled blackouts in 2011, he brought the battery inside to power his lights. He then joined a local study group discussing how they could change Fujino’s energy landscape.

“Japan needs a big change but it’s difficult because that takes government intervention. It’s better to do it person by person. If the government said ‘Let’s put solar panels on every house,’ then people would do it. But they wouldn’t become any more conscious or have any more awareness or knowledge of electricity,” Suzuki says. “We think changing people’s consciousness one by one is more effective.”

The Hashimotos are effusive about their new lifestyle and say they are encouraging their friends to try it too. They have already cut their monthly electricity bill by a fifth, down to ¥3,800. The large windows, good ventilation and better insulation in their new home have also contributed to the reduction in energy usage.

“Before there was only a short part of the year where we didn’t use air conditioning for either heating or cooling, and I’m looking forward to that season lasting much longer this year,” Haruko says. “The other day it was about 3 degrees outside but in here even without the air con on it was 27 degrees.”

The startup costs of Fujino Power’s system are also a fraction of the price of conventional household solar power systems, and even other community-led solar projects. That’s because selling back to the grid requires consumers to buy specific panels, invariably Japanese brands, for around ¥100,000 each and lithium storage batteries for about ¥150,000. But Fujino Power uses Chinese-brand panels and car batteries for a tenth of the price.

The success of Fujino Power, though small-scale, has made Suzuki optimistic that the off-grid movement in Japan will continue to grow.

“We are just trying to tell people: ‘You too can make your own energy and have a comfortable life,”‘ he says.

Link

Here is another article about Fujino town's solar activities.

[matsuki]

le awesome

[pheyton]

Elon solves your problems again.

http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall

Powerwall is a home battery that charges using electricity generated from solar panels, or when utility rates are low, and powers your home in the evening. It also fortifies your home against power outages by providing a backup electricity supply. Automated, compact and simple to install, Powerwall offers independence from the utility grid and the security of an emergency backup.

They are chainable too so you can scale up.

[matsuki]

Nice....and Fuck TEPCO!!!

[edit] Do they even adjust elec rates here based on the time of day? I know my parents have adjusted when they wash clothes, dishes, etc. based on the time of the day the rates are the cheapest. Their solar setup is paying for about 70% of their elec bill now. (they want to add more but no more room for panels on the roof)

[wagyl]

Nice....and Fuck TEPCO!!!

You seem to not realise that TEPCO does not supply to the whole country, and by locating in Niigata you are indeed fucking TEPCO.

[edit] Do they even adjust elec rates here based on the time of day? I know my parents have adjusted when they wash clothes, dishes, etc. based on the time of the day the rates are the cheapest. Their solar setup is paying for about 70% of their elec bill now. (they want to add more but no more room for panels on the roof)

Yes, and these tariffs are commonly offered when you go to an all electric house, but I don't think going all electric is an essential precondition for choosing that contract. You may need to check that, and if it is best for you. https://www.tohoku-epco.co.jp/dprivate/unit/index.html

And then, there is the view of those who don't go "awesome" at every announcement and get their slide rules out http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopher ... en-people/

[matsuki]

Nice....and Fuck TEPCO!!!

You seem to not realise that TEPCO does not supply to the whole country, and by locating in Niigata you are indeed fucking TEPCO.

If anything like this becomes viable, TEPCO will be fucked. (as will many other first world power generating companies to various extents) I will say I have plenty of hate for Tohokudenryoku....getting connected this weekend after a month long exercise in phone tag by the various contractors they use to do installs...since it's the whole territory cartel style of bidnness where jiji after jiji teeth suck and nobody is sure who is supposed to handle your area. I was really close to just asking them to send me a meter and try to find someone who knows what they're doing tap the line for me.

[edit] Do they even adjust elec rates here based on the time of day? I know my parents have adjusted when they wash clothes, dishes, etc. based on the time of the day the rates are the cheapest. Their solar setup is paying for about 70% of their elec bill now. (they want to add more but no more room for panels on the roof)

Yes, and these tariffs are commonly offered when you go to an all electric house, but I don't think going all electric is an essential precondition for choosing that contract. You may need to check that, and if it is best for you. https://www.tohoku-epco.co.jp/dprivate/unit/index.html

And then, there is the view of those who don't go "awesome" at every announcement and get their slide rules out http://www.forbes.com/sites/christopher ... en-people/

All electric I plan to go, definitely something to look into.

That dude states, that "unless your solar-powered home is entirely disconnected from the grid, or your solar system is big enough to provide for all your electricity needs, an expensive battery backup system like Powerwall does not make economic sense." Pretty narrow tejas view of things...

In his Texas, 10cents per kwh may be the norm, but in SoCal, it is anywhere from 11cents to 46cents, in Tokyo, it's anywhere from 19-55yen per kwh

I don't like his slide-rule either...assuming you cycle a 12.5kwh battery array once a day, you're charging the bitch up to capacity, you get 5,000 cycles and 80% efficiency....that's 10kwh per day - reasonable if you're already using LEDs and some decently efficient appliances. That gives you 50,000kwh that are usable...$5,000 initial installation cost....10cents per kwh.

Now there is also the cost of whatever you're using to generate the power to begin with, solar, hydro, hell...even charging from the grid at the cheapest times for use at peak hours....but let's assume you're using solar or hydro power to generate power for charging....particularly with hydro, you are going to run into a situation where your battery array is fully charged and you should be selling the excess power generation back to the grid. Over the 5,000 cycles of battery array, I'm pretty sure the cost of the unit can be offset and then some.

The only concepts of value the guy really hints at is that you need to have $$ to beef up your power generation capability before buying this battery array (be a green rich person?) and Texas has some real cheap grid energy, thanks to: