ADVICE on ward tax

[fatslug]

ok so my current ward office is sending me many notices about paying up....they even contacted my company......

Today i recieved a fax but this time from the old ward that i use to live in....the new ward mustve informed the old ward or the old ward mustve got hold of the info that i was still in japan somehow.....

So i supposedly need to pay 2 ward offices.......
i dont really care but the fact they are contacting my company is pissing me off !

what should i do.......

dont wanna pay no ward tax !

any advice greatly appreciatedf !

[Mulboyne]

The penalties on late payment are high so I suggest you work out what you want to do quickly. If you are planning on staying in Japan then you can't avoid ward tax. This is not the NHK guy; ward tax is a standard tax and you are obliged to pay.

[Taro Toporific]

MOVE.

If you move enough among wards, you never have to pay. Unfortunately now you have become "high profile" so they're going to hound you.

This is the Buddha's way of telling you to LEAVE FUCKING JAPAN ---- Buddha is wise if the tax and penality is higher than 5 million.

Taro, who-never-paid-ward-tax-for-9-years-until-my-company-ratted-me-out-and-started-deducting-the-tax-automatically

[FG Lurker]

Basically, you're fucked. You have three choices:

1. Pay.

2. Change companies and move out of the CITY (not just ward) that you are in now.

3. Leave Japan.

However, with the increase of computers in city/ward offices there is a good chance they will find you again even if you change cities. It's gotten much harder to avoid this kind of thing.

I suggest going down and negotiating with them. Plead ignorance (I didn't know about this, etc etc) but DO NOT get angry. You may be able to get them to reduce the amount you have to pay.

Pay it off. Then get your company to automatically deduct the amount from your salary. Then you don't have to worry about it anymore.

The tax office in Japan will not give up, so don't think that you can ignore it and they will go away. Trust me...

[Taro Toporific]

Basically, you're fucked.
...
DO NOT get angry. You may be able to get them to reduce the amount you have to pay...

Gr-r-r-reat advice Lurker. I still think the Shinto gods are hinting for fatslug's leaving Japan.

However, I have many Japanese translator-editor friends who have RECENTLY been caught by the new Big-Brother computer system. One of first to get caught was my freelance Japanese editor who was 5 years behind in Machida. All she had to cry a lot and they reduced the amount she had to pay by 50% spred over 3-year period which has already past and the payments have been extended again for 2 years.

Bottom Line: How cute is your bottom in micro-miniskirt fatslug?

[FG Lurker]

Bottom Line: How cute is your bottom in micro-miniskirt fatslug?

Maybe bring along a "helper" who looks good in micro-miniskirt.

The ward office chased me about taxes on 2 million in extra income. They really don't give up... It's not like it was 100million yen or something!!

The other thing is that once they catch you once they watch you closely after that...

[dimwit]

[sillygirl]

A J friend of mine moved areas, so the last ward took her unpaid taxes out of her bank account.

I read somewhere (sorry, will find the link later) that they will write to all the banks to see if you have an account there.

Need to be closing your bank account, mate.

Let me go and find that link......

.....ok, found it http://202.221.217.59/print/features/life2004/fl20041228zg.htm

Ms. Sakuma of Minato City Office's Residents Tax Payment Section explained that first they will research someone's bank account by sending letters to all the banks, to find out if that person has any money.

According to the law, the City Office is entitled to any information that may assist in the collection of this debt. They then seize the money before notifying the resident by letter afterward.

Oooh, dat nasty

[sludge]

what should i do.......

dont wanna pay no ward tax !

any advice greatly appreciatedf !

I got to agree with "Dimwit"

I am all in favor of lower taxes
But, Services do cost money.

And the ward tax is pretty reasonable.

My Advice is....

Pay Your Taxes!!!

By not paying them, you are just adding to the stigma about how foreigners don't pay their taxes and how they are always trying to rip off the system.

[Ketou]

By not paying them, you are just adding to the stigma about how foreigners don't pay their taxes and how they are always trying to rip off the system.

What do you mean stigma? That's exactly what I'm trying to do!

[kamome]

I flew the coop without paying my ward taxes and they somehow found my address in the US and STILL hound me about paying off the arrears. I will do that, but can't pay it off all at once.

[Reddeville]

Why should you care about the ward tax when you go home if its for good? All this talk about `owing` Japan when they refuse to give us rights and steal a citizen`s tax from us when we are denied the right to be one, makes me unsympathetic to their money-grabbing schemes.

Remember - they are robbing you with the pension payments you will never get back in full or even half. Morally and ethically you have the right not to pay your ward tax because of the dishonesty of the authorities. Don`t pay it if you don`t want to go back. If you get a letter at your home address send it back - Not at this address.

[Maths Dude]

At what income does ward tax kick in? My scam was that my 'employer' got me a work visa saying he was paying 250,000 yen/month, but in reality I was getting 150,000, and I paid only tax on that, which was really low. The extra yen I got was cash in hand (with other employers) which brought me a little over 300k/month. I never got hassled for anythin, even my national heal insurance bill was 6,000 a month.

[hakuman]

Why should you care about the ward tax when you go home if its for good? All this talk about `owing` Japan when they refuse to give us rights and steal a citizen`s tax from us when we are denied the right to be one, makes me unsympathetic to their money-grabbing schemes.

What are you talking about? You can become a citizen if you want. You just sound like a crying little boy who wants to have his cake and eat it to (i.e. live in the country, but not pay to support it)

Remember - they are robbing you with the pension payments you will never get back in full or even half. Morally and ethically you have the right not to pay your ward tax because of the dishonesty of the authorities.

How exactly are the authorities dishonest? They tell you exactly how much you will get back, and that you wont get it all back. Its their country, they can set the rules they want. If you dont like it, stay a few years, apply for citizenship, run for office, and try to change the rules. Until then, quit whining like a little bitch, and/or go home and leave the country to the people who dont make us all look like the fuckin bum that you are.

[Maths Dude]

All forms of personal income Tax are wrong. They just rob you and you get nothing in return. Probably most of the tax goes to pay for the governments fuck ups, why should we pay for that? They fucked up, not us!

[Reddeville]

Maths Dude - don`t agree with all of your post (I reckon there IS obligation to pay a country`s charges but not in all situations) but I like your style!

Haku or the vomit man or whatever you call yourself, go and spew on somebody else. Like those sneaking city hall officials who will give you less than 300,000 back city pension refund when you leave although you paid double, triple or more to them.

The law is the law but it`s not always ethical and can be unjust. The many ways Japanese officialdom discriminate against foreigners but are always there counting us as `Japanese` when they want us to pay to support their dying system (dying cause of xenophobia) is for me an example of unjust laws.

Foreigners support their system and don`t get their benefits. So again - if you leave Japan without paying ward tax or NHK or that pension system, power to you.

[hakuman]

Excuses excuses. Anyone can justify reasons not to pay stuff if they want. Doenst make them any less of a bitch to those of us who see you for what you are though.

Like I say, go back home. Get the fuck out of the country if you dont like it. No one is making you stay, and on the contrary, there are many of us who wish you werent here.

[Maths Dude]

What country is irrelevant. Income Tax is wrong full stop. Its people like hakuman who follow the other lemmings over the cliff. When somethings wrong you gotta fix it, not take it up the ass. Unless you like that kind of thing

[FG Lurker]

All forms of personal income Tax are wrong. They just rob you and you get nothing in return. Probably most of the tax goes to pay for the governments fuck ups, why should we pay for that? They fucked up, not us!

On many levels I agree with you. I pay quite a lot of tax and it drives me nuts.

However, how do you propose to pay for all the gov't actions that are needed for daily life? I mean things like transportation infrastructure (airports, sea ports, roads, mass transit) as well as things like the military, police, fire service, etc.

[Maths Dude]

I am against income tax, not taxes for roads etc. Pay for what you use I say. More than 1/2 of the money you pay on gasoline is tax. Where does that go ? I dont think much income tax goes to roads. JR is a private company right? Even if its not you pay for the service. Hospitals arent free, you pay tax on anything you buy, and they STILL want a slice of your hard earned cash.

Here in Oz we pay about 30% income tax, and a 10% GST. But hospital is free, even if you need a transplant etc. Also, if you have a kid they give you 4,000 bucks no questions asked. You get to keep it too, coz hospital is free remember. In japan you get 500,000 yen but it goes the damn hospital!

Where does your income tax go? Please tell me. I have no idea!

[FG Lurker]

I think governments should be much much more accountable for where money goes. Basically after every fiscal year they should have to produce financial reports and account for all the money they spend, just as any private company does. These reports should be presented and explained to the general public.

As to where your income tax is going, well, the list is clearly too long for any one person to put in a post on FG. Some examples I would give are:

transportation infrastructure (as mentioned above)
policing services
fire services
military
coast guard
customs and immigration services
hospital and other medical care (in some countries anyway)
rescue services

There is certainly a ton of waste packed in there too...And that of course is the problem. Transparency and accountability are needed.

[Maths Dude]

The tax rate to pay only for those services you just mentioned would be about 2-3% max. The fact is alot of the income tax goes to paying off the massive debt the government booked up. Therefore as the debt increases, schools, hospitals, law enforcement simply start crumbling - look at the UK for example. Unfortunately I have to agree, every cent should be accounted for.

[FG Lurker]

The tax rate to pay only for those services you just mentioned would be about 2-3% max. The fact is alot of the income tax goes to paying off the massive debt the government booked up. Therefore as the debt increases, schools, hospitals, law enforcement simply start crumbling - look at the UK for example. Unfortunately I have to agree, every cent should be accounted for.

If you were able to tax the gross sales of companies and tax gross salary of every individual then 2 to 3% would be workable. Otherwise things climb.

Gov'ts borrow for many reasons, some good, some not. Borrowing to pay for a necessary road or airport is pretty much unavoidable. Borrowing money to give it away to other countries should be forbidden. Basically the gov't should have to justify why it needs to borrow money and what that money is to be used for.

I really think we could solve quite a few problems if government was truly accountable for the money spent (and received!). If a private company tried to work like the government does they'd be in a massive shitpile of trouble -- both from the tax collectors and from their own investors.

[Maths Dude]

Lincoln paid for the civil war simply by creating money at 0% interest. There is a conspiracy that he was killed because the big bankers feared that he would shut them down and have the goverment print money at 0.1% interest (to pay for admin). Kennedy was also thinking about this system too. So he was also killed off. In Australia, one of our former prime ministers simply vanished (Harold Holt) after also mentioning such a system.

So what we have is a bunch of privetly owned banks creating money at the stroke of a key. Meanwhile those who take out the loan must pay back more than what was lent. They do no work what so ever, just type a few keys on the keyboard, yet we must slave for 20 - 30 years.

And if you do the simple maths on a piece of paper, you will see that there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt. Therefore, more money must be lent to keep the system from collapsing. There is actually a mathematical limit to how long such a system can last (the snowball just gets too big).

[Maths Dude]

Dont you think its odd that something that takes 4 months to build, maybe 5 staff @ 35 hrs/week, so thats 3,000 odd hours? Takes 30 years to pay off?

[FG Lurker]

There are three types of people when it comes to money:

Those who don't "get it" at all.
Those who "get it" yet do nothing (and/or complain about it).
and
Those who "get it" and make use of the system to their own benefit.

[Maths Dude]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step! Go ask your local homeless if he 'gets it'. The current system is not fair and never has been and is not set up to be fair. The system is set up in such a way is that there must be losers, no matter how much people try. Some will win and be very comfortable, and will fight to keep what they have. Others will just survive, and there are others who will lose through no fault of their own.

Remember there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt, therefore someones gotta lose.

[FG Lurker]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step! Go ask your local homeless if he 'gets it'. The current system is not fair and never has been and is not set up to be fair. The system is set up in such a way is that there must be losers, no matter how much people try. Some will win and be very comfortable, and will fight to keep what they have. Others will just survive, and there are others who will lose through no fault of their own.

What system would you suggest in its place? It's been shown clearly that a system that makes everyone "equal" just turns almost all people into something very near the lowest-common-denominator. And any system that does not make everyone exactly equal will eventually end up being similar to what we have today.

Remember there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt, therefore someones gotta lose.

Yep, someone's gotta lose. The trick is to make sure it's not yourself.

[hakuman]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step!

Complaining is a waste of time. Complaining is in fact counter productive, because it just annoys people. Dont complain, do something. Complaint without action just makes people look like whiney bitches.

[Midwinter]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step!

Complaining is a waste of time. Complaining is in fact counter productive, because it just annoys people. Dont complain, do something. Complaint without action just makes people look like whiney bitches.

And in the process, you're complaining about his complaining without doing anything else about it. Neat!

Back on the subject at hand, I stopped paying my "citizen's" tax 2 years ago. Furthermore, I quizzed the local ward office about the differences in the Pension system between locals and gaijin, and much to my amusement they admitted the situation was obviously discrimatory, but were at a loss to do anything about it. Which I thought was just wonderful