pension

[george]

I am a permanent resident in Japan and have been paying into the pension system for about 6/7 years now. If I continue paying until I'm 65 (another 30 years or so) will I be able to draw a pension?

[Greji]

I am a permanent resident in Japan and have been paying into the pension system for about 6/7 years now. If I continue paying until I'm 65 (another 30 years or so) will I be able to draw a pension?

If you are speaking about the government pension plan if you pay into it for 25 years, you are elegible to receive monthly retirement pay at 65. Even if you were to come up short a year or two, you would be offered the option to pay up to the 25 year mark (usually out or severance, or retirement lump sum payments). It is about 14,000 a month.

National pension system (Kokuminnenkin) is a set figure per month on retirement, but if you also have Welfare retirement system(Koseinenkin) from your company, the monthly payment with be calculated from a formula of your salary while working.

The system of your company will depend on this some what, but you should also have a company retirement (kigyounenkin) if you are with the same company during this time. Another point is that the money you have payed into national retirement systems in your home country (Aus, Belgium, China, France, Korea, UK, US, etc.) can also be counted interms of input funds and years paid. If your country has a treaty with Japan on social security, it is affective in both countries.

Here is the Japanese web site for this, which of course is in Nihongo.....
Hope this helps.

[maraboutslim]

Another point is that the money you have payed into national retirement systems in your home country (Aus, Belgium, China, France, Korea, UK, US, etc.) can also be counted interms of input funds and years paid. If your country has a treaty with Japan on social security, it is affective in both countries.

Wow. I had no idea. Thanks for telling us about that!

[Greji]

Wow. I had no idea. Thanks for telling us about that!

Unfortunately, over the years, there has been much to do about FGs not wanting to pay to the J-National retirement and so forth because they would not be here to receive any benefits. Many old wifes' tales have come into common belief.

As a result, some of these stories about what we FGs are entitled to receive, or get refunded, or more importantly, not receive, etc., have been blown way out of shape.

Witness some of the stories flying around about FGs not being able to own property, get loans, draw retirement, cannot work for the government, blah, blah, blah. I know some long timers here that swear by some of these stories.

It also doesn't help when you go to the city/ward/immigrations/tax offices and find that the J-clerk who is supposed to help you, has even less idea.

As a result you have to either research these problems thoroughly (or have a trusted J-friend do it, or assist you), otherwise, some good things can slip right by you.

I'm glad the pension info was of some help, but obviously, everyone's individual case can be a bit different, so it doesn't hurt to look into this further.
Cheers,

[Taro Toporific]

Wow. I had no idea. Thanks for telling us about that!

To elaborate on what gboothe said, the US for the past 2 years has a new treaty with Japan on social security making your payments effective in both countries. For example, I've paid into Japanese social security system for 23+ years at the max level, and I just checked last week to find out I could be collecting US Social Security at about $1,700/month at retirement.

[Ol Dirty Gaijin]

Also to clarify from gb's post, the agreement with Australia and Canada has been signed but not finalised in the details as yet. Still good news compared to the situation of two years ago where you were looking at next to no payment or a full working life in Japan to get your payments back.

[Big Booger]

To elaborate on what gboothe said, the US for the past 2 years has a new treaty with Japan on social security making your payments effective in both countries. For example, I've paid into Japanese social security system for 23+ years at the max level, and I just checked last week to find out I could be collecting US Social Security at about $1,700/month at retirement.

Do you have to apply for this or is it automatic?

[Taro Toporific]

Do you have to apply for this or is it automatic?

Good question!
Well, at retirement you have to declare which country you plan to collect a pension. My Denver office was able to come up with an estimate when I gave them my paid-in Japanese Social Security total from my Japanese records. Damn, they didn't tell me anything about how to collect (since all I wanted was a ballpark estimate).

By the time Big Bogger escapes/retires from Japan, who knows what the procedure will be?

The fucktards at the US Embassy don't explicitly state what the procedure is, which is typical for those turds.

http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-fb-faq.html
http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-fb-eligibility.html


If/when/before a f'd gaijin returns to America, you should call your local Social Security office and request an official "future benefits review". Since you are "out of the US system" this take months and having your Japanese Social Security records speeds up the process.
Once you get back into the US system by paying in, the Social Security Administration will send you an annual review.


Wait, wait... Damn, I just missed the SS lecture..

[INDENT]On February 20, 2004, the governments of Japan and the United States entered into a Social Security "totalization" agreement. The Agreement started in 2005 and serves two primary purposes:

1. Eliminate dual Social Security taxation that occurs when a worker from one country works in another country and is required to pay Social Security taxes to both countries on the same earnings. As a result of exisiting totalization agreements (with other countries), US workers and employers currently are saving about $800 million annually in foreign taxes that they do not have to pay.

2. Help fill gaps in benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the US and another country, but who have not worked long enough in one or both countries to qualify for Social Security benefits. With totalization, workers are allowed to combine work credits from both countries to qualify for Social Security benefits. the benefit amount paid is proportional to the amount of credits earned in the paying country.

The presentation will provide a brief overview of Japanese Social Security. We hope this event will provide useful information to Americans who have been working in Japan and paying into the Japanese Social Security system. The speakers will provide details and some examples of how benefits would be applied for a variety of different types of Americans in Japan (short-term residents, medium-term residents and long-term residents) and the extent of coverage the Americans can expect.
[/INDENT]

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm in my early 30's so I don't expect either the US or Japan to be able to give me anything when I retire no matter how much I pay in. That's why I withdrew from the Japanese pension system.

[Big Booger]

Good question!
Well, at retirement you have to declare which country you plan to collect a pension. My Denver office was able to come up with an estimate when I gave them my paid-in Japanese Social Security total from my Japanese records. Damn, they didn't tell me anything about how to collect (since all I wanted was a ballpark estimate).

By the time Big Bogger escapes/retires from Japan, who knows what the procedure will be?

The fucktards at the US Embassy don't explicitly state what the procedure is, which is typical for those turds.

http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-fb-faq.html
http://tokyo.usembassy.gov/e/acs/tacs-fb-eligibility.html


If/when/before a f'd gaijin returns to America, you should call your local Social Security office and request an official "future benefits review". Since you are "out of the US system" this take months and having your Japanese Social Security records speeds up the process.
Once you get back into the US system by paying in, the Social Security Administration will send you an annual review.


Wait, wait... Damn, I just missed the SS lecture..
[INDENT]On February 20, 2004, the governments of Japan and the United States entered into a Social Security "totalization" agreement. The Agreement started in 2005 and serves two primary purposes:

1. Eliminate dual Social Security taxation that occurs when a worker from one country works in another country and is required to pay Social Security taxes to both countries on the same earnings. As a result of exisiting totalization agreements (with other countries), US workers and employers currently are saving about $800 million annually in foreign taxes that they do not have to pay.

2. Help fill gaps in benefit protection for workers who have divided their careers between the US and another country, but who have not worked long enough in one or both countries to qualify for Social Security benefits. With totalization, workers are allowed to combine work credits from both countries to qualify for Social Security benefits. the benefit amount paid is proportional to the amount of credits earned in the paying country.

The presentation will provide a brief overview of Japanese Social Security. We hope this event will provide useful information to Americans who have been working in Japan and paying into the Japanese Social Security system. The speakers will provide details and some examples of how benefits would be applied for a variety of different types of Americans in Japan (short-term residents, medium-term residents and long-term residents) and the extent of coverage the Americans can expect.
[/INDENT]

Excellento! I now have a bit more info about this. I was wondering how it worked... and like you say who the hell knows what will happen in 15-30 years... Maybe then you might have to give a sperm sample... before they allow you to retire.. to make sure your still able to help populate this place???

[maraboutslim]

My wife paid into the Japanese system for a few years and is now paying into the U.S. system. I only paid into the Japanese system for a year or so but have paid into the U.S. system for only about 12 years. The only problem is that now that I work for the State of California, I don't pay into u.s. social security anymore (since the state has its own pension system for employees).

But knowing that there is some sort of treaty that will allow us to pick a side and receive their benefits is awesome. Here's a follow up question: if one were to retire to japan, on a 'fixed income' that include pension either national from japan or the usa or my state one, can he just jump right back into the japanese national health care system and how much could this old geezer expect to pay for that? Right now if i work for california long enough i'll be vested with lifetime medical coverage, but i'd rather retire in japan anyway...but health care may be a worry at that age. (i'm 38 now so we're talking 20-25 years from now).

[Greji]

I only paid into the Japanese system for a year or so but have paid into the U.S. system for only about 12 years. The only problem is that now that I work for the State of California, I don't pay into u.s. social security anymore (since the state has its own pension system for employees).

Slim,

Here's a cite that might confuse you more. This is for the US, but for those interested, I'm sure other governments have similar cites for reference.
Hope it helps.

[maraboutslim]

Slim,

Here's a cite that might confuse you more.

No kidding. Several paragraphs left me with a 'what if...' questions!

Some good news for my japanese citizen wife:

Normally, persons who are not U.S. citizens may receive U.S. Social Security benefits while outside the United States only if they meet certain requirements. Under the agreement, however, if you are a U.S. or Japanese citizen, a refugee, a stateless person, or a person who is eligible for dependents or survivors benefits based on the Social Security record of one of these people, you may receive benefits as long as you reside in Japan.

I think this is bad news (apparently credits from japan don't count as much as credits from the u.s. for u.s. payouts):
[quote]When a U.S. benefit becomes payable as a result of counting both U.S. and Japanese Social Security credits, an initial benefit is determined based on your U.S. earnings as if your entire career had been completed under the U.S. system. This initial benefit is then reduced to reflect the fact that Japanese credits helped to make the benefit payable. The amount of the reduction will depend on the number of U.S. credits: the more U.S. credits, the smaller the reduction]

Thanks again for the info!