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Under Tatami Insulation

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Under Tatami Insulation

Postby Big Booger » Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:52 pm

Here's just a quick question:

What sort of shit can you put down underneath the tatami flooring in an ancient fucking house to improve insulation needs?

I am living in an old showa or late taisho era house and it's freezing my ass off. I found walls without insulation in them, and ripped out some of the wall boards and stuffed old clothing down in between the timbers of the house with a corrugated cardboard sheath on the outside and inside of the spaces where I stuffed the clothing down in. I know this is a fire hazard but I don't give a shit. I am cold. After doing this I noticed a great improvement in the warmth of that room.

So now I am on to improving the heat retention/insulation of the flooring. I took up all the tatami in one room and found loose boards underneath. So I went and bought a whole shit load of nails and some silicone caulking to seal off holes and shit. Then I bought sheets of polystyrene double-sided with aluminium foil. I started putting that down and stapled them to the boards that I had recently nailed.

I am wondering if there is a better material for this job or have I hit upon a pretty solid way to do this?

Basically the material I am using now looks like those solar reflecting panels people put in their cars during summer. Is there any other better material that is made for this particular job or is more efficient/cheaper? This shit I bought is like 1200 per 1mX5m roll.... I have purchased 12 of these already and have 4 more rooms to go through.

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Postby james » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:24 pm

Big Booger wrote:I am living in an old showa or late taisho era house and it's freezing my ass off. I found walls without insulation in them,


gtfo of my house! damn squatters.
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Postby Ketou » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:45 pm

Big Booger wrote:Here's just a quick question:


I am living in an old showa or late taisho era house and it's freezing my ass off. I found walls without insulation in them, and ripped out some of the wall boards and stuffed old clothing down in between the timbers of the house with a corrugated cardboard sheath on the outside and inside of the spaces where I stuffed the clothing down in. I know this is a fire hazard but I don't give a shit. I am cold. After doing this I noticed a great improvement in the warmth of that room.


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Our house is about 30 years old and has sweet FA for insulation too.
The local Iyahadio sells insulation to drop down the walls as well as foam mats for floors and ceilings.
You could also get stuff online.
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Postby FG Lurker » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:10 pm

Big Booger wrote:I am living in an old showa or late taisho era house and it's freezing my ass off. I found walls without insulation in them, and ripped out some of the wall boards and stuffed old clothing down in between the timbers of the house with a corrugated cardboard sheath on the outside and inside of the spaces where I stuffed the clothing down in. I know this is a fire hazard but I don't give a shit. I am cold. After doing this I noticed a great improvement in the warmth of that room.

You'll rot the walls doing this because the clothes will absorb and hold moisture. Best to get some sort of insulating material to use instead.
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Postby Big Booger » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:15 pm

FG Lurker wrote:You'll rot the walls doing this because the clothes will absorb and hold moisture. Best to get some sort of insulating material to use instead.


I thought about that as well but I am just cold as shit, and now without a vehicle I cannot go down and get the insulating material.. But that link Ketou pointed out has it available online.. I might get some of that fiberglass shit.
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Postby Mike Oxlong » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:25 pm

Don't know how easy this stuff is to come by locally...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_insulation
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Postby Big Booger » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:20 am

Mike Oxlong wrote:Don't know how easy this stuff is to come by locally...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulose_insulation


That'd be perfect if I could get some in kansai.
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Postby tidbits » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:38 am

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Postby Ketou » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:47 pm

tinateoh wrote:May be too late if you have cracked your wall. Anyway found this method of using Air bubble wrap to insulate. (but mostly on balcony doors and windows). http://www.re-nest.com/re-nest/how-to-insulate-with-bubble-wrap-099849 (English)

According to the below Japanese site, there are two types of air bubble wrap- 2 layered and 3 layered. 3 layered type of a roll of 90cm X 42m(1m=120) cost about Yen 2980. In Tokyu Hands a roll of 120cm X 42m cost Yen 4280 (but 2 layered type) And seemed like how you tape it is quite important.
http://www.dankou.co.jp/mate01.html
http://www.dankou.co.jp/craft03.html

I remembered my school mate used to use a lot of this "mofu" blanket on walls and cover over curtains and even floors, and it was really warm. I found similar method mentioned in the last part of this Yahoo question and answer. (sorry, I can't translate the whole thing) Another things is , if you haven't, you should put a layer of mofu on top of your matress or futon and again use another one as blanket below your comforter. A bit heavy but really makes a lot of diffrent. http://detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1333106808

Hope it helps.


The Puchi Puchi stuff is actually not a bad alternative too....good for you windows as Tina mentioned...place it a couple of cm away from the glass to create an insulated barrier.
You can get it at Yahoo Auctions much cheaper too.
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Postby canman » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:18 pm

I have a ten year old house that has shit for insulation, about 2-3 cm thick Styrofoam. What the hell good is that. I would like to put in better insulation, but that would mean redoing all the walls, which would cost a small fortune. I was hoping for an easier way, but the loose blow in type insulation is even more expensive. So I guess I will have to gaman. But it really sucks when you wake up in the morning and the temp in your bedroom is -1C:shakeh:
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Postby james » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:28 pm

"Cause I'm stranded all alone, in the gas station of love, and I have to use the self-service pumps.."

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Postby Greji » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:13 pm

james wrote:wish we had a diy forum.


I think someone started one once and some bitchers (we don't need this shit....) shut it down....
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Postby IkemenTommy » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:03 pm

james wrote:wish we had a diy forum.

Not the first time we heard this one
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Postby Doctor Stop » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:19 pm

tinateoh wrote:Anyway found this method of using Air bubble wrap to insulate. (but mostly on balcony doors and windows).
My inlaws are using that system, in their new, custom built house. :confused:
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Postby wuchan » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:11 am

Doctor Stop wrote:My inlaws are using that system, in their new, custom built house. :confused:

New houses must, by law, have "circulation systems". Basically every room has a hole to the outside and the house has a reverse heat pump in the attic. This requirement makes any insulation installed totally useless. It took me an entire month to undo the "death mold protection system". IT IS NOT MY FUCKING FAULT THAT JAPANESE PEOPLE DON'T CLEAN THEIR HOUSES!!!!! I am not sure weather this is really a safety inspired law or an agreement with the electronic producers and the power company. Bottom line here is; before I plugged the holes and removed the pump my electric bill was 3x what it is now AND the house is now warmer than it has ever been.
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Postby Doctor Stop » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:19 am

That might be to prevent carbon monoxide poisoning.
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Postby wuchan » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:35 am

Doctor Stop wrote:That might be to prevent carbon monoxide poisoning.

no, they claim that it is for "death mold". To us it is called black mold. It comes from abundant moisture in a closed area for a prolonged period of time. Basically, J-folk never open their windows. The architect was totally perplexed when I had a shit fit over particle board window sills. His reasoning was, "I have had them in my house for ten years and I have never had a problem"
Me: What happens if you leave a window open?
Douche: Japanese people don't do that.
Me: because they never open the windows!
douche: Well now that you mention it, I never open the windows.
Me: how often do you clean the walls in your house?
douche: Clean the walls? Maybe next year I will have the paper replaced.
Me: :shock: :confused:
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Postby Doctor Stop » Thu Jan 21, 2010 12:41 am

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Postby FG Lurker » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:27 am

wuchan wrote:no, they claim that it is for "death mold". To us it is called black mold. It comes from abundant moisture in a closed area for a prolonged period of time. Basically, J-folk never open their windows. The architect was totally perplexed when I had a shit fit over particle board window sills. His reasoning was, "I have had them in my house for ten years and I have never had a problem"
Me: What happens if you leave a window open?
Douche: Japanese people don't do that.
Me: because they never open the windows!
douche: Well now that you mention it, I never open the windows.
Me: how often do you clean the walls in your house?
douche: Clean the walls? Maybe next year I will have the paper replaced.
Me: :shock: :confused:

Actually, I find the opposite. My wife opens all the fucking windows in the house every morning, no matter how cold it is outside.

My parents' house on the other hand is basically sealed and they wouldn't think of leaving windows open for an hour or so every morning.

That said, my parents have a proper heat pump run central heating system with cold air returns that gives the house real air circulation...
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Postby jingai » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:03 pm

wuchan wrote:no, they claim that it is for "death mold". To us it is called black mold. It comes from abundant moisture in a closed area for a prolonged period of time. Basically, J-folk never open their windows. The architect was totally perplexed when I had a shit fit over particle board window sills. His reasoning was, "I have had them in my house for ten years and I have never had a problem"


Mold sucks but it's not "death mold" unless you're allergic to it. Houses need a way to get rid of moisture from the attic and here ventilation is appropriate. Look up soffit vent. It's also good to ventilate in a bathroom or kitchen to get rid of excess moisture.

As far as insulation goes, loose cellulose can be spread in an attic or wherever you can stick it. Fiberglass isn't safe to handle (need mask, gloves) and doesn't work if there are gaps or moisture. Rigid foam boards are also good insulators with 2 inches of foam = a fat batt of the pink fiberglass insulation. This is something you could mount in a cellar ceiling.

I'm dealing with all this in an old American house at the moment and hiring someone to help with blow-in cellulose insulation.
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