F*cked Tax Stories

[Molokidan]

It's almost that time of the year again... So let's hear it. After viewing many of the previous tax threads in the past, I know there are all types on FG... From obedient folks who pay every last cent of their ward taxes to tax evasion ninjas who haven't funded a government bureaucrat's curry lunch for years! I want to hear it all. Either your most glorious tale of tax math, or your chronicle of disgraceful tax seppuku. That time you had to jump out the bathroom window and run to the next prefecture when you got audited. Or, you could just tell us how easy it is to file them properly. Just don't turn this thread into some dumb argument about how gaijin who don't pay taxes should get out of Japan. I will judge no one. For the record, I'm planning to set all my taxes straight this year. Whether or not I succeed is a different story!

[Russell]

Are you employed by the tax office?

[Molokidan]

Yeah, nothing makes my day than nabbing some dirty gaijin for a few extra yen...

Come on, seriously?

[wangta]

It's almost that time of the year again... So let's hear it. After viewing many of the previous tax threads in the past, I know there are all types on FG... From obedient folks who pay every last cent of their ward taxes to tax evasion ninjas who haven't funded a government bureaucrat's curry lunch for years! I want to hear it all. Either your most glorious tale of tax math, or your chronicle of disgraceful tax seppuku. That time you had to jump out the bathroom window and run to the next prefecture when you got audited. Or, you could just tell us how easy it is to file them properly. Just don't turn this thread into some dumb argument about how gaijin who don't pay taxes should get out of Japan. I will judge no one. For the record, I'm planning to set all my taxes straight this year. Whether or not I succeed is a different story!

How many posts have you made since registering here in 2003? If you only post occasionally and have now turned up to get gaijin tax stories from the suckers here then I call sneak and snitch.

If not - let everybody rip with their stories. I loved wading through the tales of torment and tears on the old gaijinpot's thread about being wary with investments because the tax man is watching. A lot of that was because of the idiocy of SuperGrover and Ken44 but I doubt they post here as most people on fuckedgaijin aren't stupid.

I can refer you to one tale in the Beyond Fucked forum from resident Black Panster McTojo who has been banned from the rest of the forums. He ran into trouble over taxes because he wanted to get married to a J female (she must be an absolute oddball) and since then we haven't heard what happened. Maybe his furniture has been seized for auction by his local ward office.

[IparryU]

A new tax!!! Yay!!!!

beaconreports.net/japans-new-exit-tax/

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2014 ... -exit-tax/

[matsuki]

Some foreigners working in Japan could now have more than ¥100 million in financial assets given the sharp decline in the yen or if a wide range of assets were covered by the law.

“We are aware and engaged with the authorities on this,” the International Bankers Association of Japan, which represents foreign banks and securities firms in Japan, said Thursday in response to a request for comment.

“We would like an outcome that targets tax evaders, but does not inadvertently capture other groups who may contribute to the growth of Tokyo as a financial center and the vitalization of the Japanese economy.”

People with knowledge of the discussions over the exit tax say that government officials are considering limiting which foreigners would be covered, and say the finance ministry expects the law would likely only affect several hundred individuals.

More barriers to importing skilled workers? (though they seem to realize how fucked that could be)

[Molokidan]

How many posts have you made since registering here in 2003? If you only post occasionally and have now turned up to get gaijin tax stories from the suckers here then I call sneak and snitch.
I can refer you to one tale in the Beyond Fucked forum from resident Black Panster McTojo who has been banned from the rest of the forums. He ran into trouble over taxes because he wanted to get married to a J female (she must be an absolute oddball) and since then we haven't heard what happened. Maybe his furniture has been seized for auction by his local ward office.

I'm a premium FG member and I've posted off an on over the years, mostly being silent and absorbing wisdom from my peers. But I can understand people being worried about posting personal information like that. Of course, you could always just say it was something that happened to your friend...

Has there actually been a case of a non-resident's possessions being seized by the tax man? I'd love to read about that.

[wuchan]

dear cop,

I always get back over 90% of my Japanese national tax through deductions. Come after me if you like, I only claim 50% of my expenses.


To make you hate me more: I manage a rice farm......




the last time I got audited the FSA found that the J-gov owed me money.

[legion]

I think they are after wealthy Japanese people who are skipping out to HK & Singapore to avoid Japanese tax, but if they screw a few bankers along the way I won't shed a tear. Foreign finance people don't give a shit about Japan, they just want to take out more money than they put in. The idea that these people "create wealth" is complete horseshit, they sit up the money river scooping off a percentage.

[kurogane]

More barriers to importing skilled workers? (though they seem to realize how fucked that could be)

Here we go again................
This isn't about Us. The JRA and the parliament don't care about us. Many of them aren't even sure We exist, and those that are are pretty sure we are all tourists. In almost no way, shape or form does the statistical irrelevance of foreigners present in Japan affect the course of Japanese legislation. Your existence is so infinitesimal it is a non-existence in most scenarios. You don't matter.

But I still care

For more information and insight on this fascinating topic read what Legion just wrote and agree. Completely. Or else.........

Anyways, tax stories:

I got a tax bill on income that was formally a living expenses stipend while on a research fellowship and went to the ward office to explain that I was tax exempt by contract. They balked, I went home and printed out 30 or 40 pages of the relevant sections of the national tax code and went back into the ward office to argue my case. They hemmed, hawed, took one long horrified look at the reams of tax code I had politely highlighted, phoned the JRA liason office and with a few mildly grumpy comments about my income being far too high to be expempt they agreed I was tax exempt. I mentioned that I paid my health insurance even though I was exempt on that too and they seemed to appreciate the gesture. So I went home. Moral? Always go to battle armed. To the teeth. And be magnanimous in victory.

End of story..............................for now..........................

[IparryU]

the last time I got audited the FSA found that the J-gov owed me money.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Not exactly a tax story but when I moved back to Japan ten years ago after a 5 year hiatus I was on a pre-college visa since I decided to spend an academic year in Japanese school. When I went to my local ward office to sign up for insurance the person at the counter asked me what my income was the previous year. I replied that I wasn't in Japan so she asked me again. I kept giving the same reply and she kept asking me the same question instead of actually explaining to me that she needed to know my income regardless of where I was to calculate how much I should be paying for insurance. I just acted like I didn't understand what she was getting at and she finally just said never mind and signed me up at the very low rate that full-time students typically pay.

To be honest I didn't know exactly what my income was in USD let alone JPY off the top of my head and wouldn't have had any documentation to prove it one way or the other if I did. I also wasn't sure that they should be calculating my insurance premiums based on an income I received when I wasn't a resident of Japan. It was all very strange and seemed to go on the honor system.

Does anyone actually know how that works? Are they supposed to look at income earned abroad the previous year to calculate national insurance and pension premiums if you weren't a resident of Japan during that time?

[J.A.F.O]

I'm a premium FG member and I've posted off an on over the years, mostly being silent and absorbing wisdom from my peers. But I can understand people being worried about posting personal information like that. Of course, you could always just say it was something that happened to your friend...

Has there actually been a case of a non-resident's possessions being seized by the tax man? I'd love to read about that.

Well there was this one story about a spider and a fly.

[Wage Slave]

In my case they didn't even ask about my income before we moved here. Tax and insurance payments were assessed on an income of zero for the first year and a bit I was here.

[Wibble]

Anyways, tax stories:

I got a tax bill on income that was formally a living expenses stipend while on a research fellowship and went to the ward office to explain that I was tax exempt by contract. They balked, I went home and printed out 30 or 40 pages of the relevant sections of the national tax code and went back into the ward office to argue my case. They hemmed, hawed, took one long horrified look at the reams of tax code I had politely highlighted, phoned the JRA liason office and with a few mildly grumpy comments about my income being far too high to be expempt they agreed I was tax exempt. I mentioned that I paid my health insurance even though I was exempt on that too and they seemed to appreciate the gesture. So I went home. Moral? Always go to battle armed. To the teeth. And be magnanimous in victory.

End of story..............................for now..........................

This sort of thing seems to be entirely dependent on the tax person you deal with. I was on a similar stipend for a couple of years, and they had no problem with it being tax exempt nor the city office with paying minimal health insurance contributions based on a 0 income.
In contrast, although not tax, I know someone who had a "expenses" only PhD studentship in Japan; when he started his first post-doc job, they demanded 4 years of back pension contributions from him as he hadn't made any tax returns during that time.

[matsuki]

More barriers to importing skilled workers? (though they seem to realize how fucked that could be)

Here we go again................
This isn't about Us. The JRA and the parliament don't care about us. Many of them aren't even sure We exist, and those that are are pretty sure we are all tourists. In almost no way, shape or form does the statistical irrelevance of foreigners present in Japan affect the course of Japanese legislation. Your existence is so infinitesimal it is a non-existence in most scenarios. You don't matter.

Dammit Kuro, reread what I wrote and then read this:

“We would like an outcome that targets tax evaders, but does not inadvertently capture other groups who may contribute to the growth of Tokyo as a financial center and the vitalization of the Japanese economy.”

People with knowledge of the discussions over the exit tax say that government officials are considering limiting which foreigners would be covered, and say the finance ministry expects the law would likely only affect several hundred individuals.

It very much seems like they are considering how this will affect foreigners...and seems like many will end up being exempt?

[wangta]

Not exactly a tax story but when I moved back to Japan ten years ago after a 5 year hiatus I was on a pre-college visa since I decided to spend an academic year in Japanese school. When I went to my local ward office to sign up for insurance the person at the counter asked me what my income was the previous year. I replied that I wasn't in Japan so she asked me again. I kept giving the same reply and she kept asking me the same question instead of actually explaining to me that she needed to know my income regardless of where I was to calculate how much I should be paying for insurance. I just acted like I didn't understand what she was getting at and she finally just said never mind and signed me up at the very low rate that full-time students typically pay.

To be honest I didn't know exactly what my income was in USD let alone JPY off the top of my head and wouldn't have had any documentation to prove it one way or the other if I did. I also wasn't sure that they should be calculating my insurance premiums based on an income I received when I wasn't a resident of Japan. It was all very strange and seemed to go on the honor system.

Does anyone actually know how that works? Are they supposed to look at income earned abroad the previous year to calculate national insurance and pension premiums if you weren't a resident of Japan during that time?

That ward office staff member clearly was one of the robotic type you get in Japan - has the rules, is drilled to follow them and won't take the initiative. It's hardly unusual in Japan - she probably wasn't up that much in the hierarchy so didn't want to do anything requiring thinking.

From my experience and generally from what I've heard first hand from other gaijin in person as well as on the net, you shouldn't have had to even talk about the previous year's income as you were in Japan on a different visa, you hadn't worked in Japan the previous year and for a while, and you had taken a genuine break from Japan.

If you had say, a Specialist in Humanities visa that had some time left on it and you returned legally on the same visa then the previous year's income question would apply. But a new visa re-sets the clock from my experience. I returned to Japan in 2013 on a new Specialist in Humanities visa having been on one some years before. For kokuminkenko hoken purposes I had no previous income the year before as whatever I was doing elsewhere and earning was irrelevant because it was not in Japan and I had been issued a new visa.

As for the OP, I knew a gaijin who had his bank account cleaned out for not paying ward taxes. We were in the city and he went to get some money from his bank ATM but he received a message that he could not withdraw anything at the moment. That was odd but the day after he used an ATM to access his bank account and found that all his money had been taken except for around 650 yen.

[Yokohammer]

As for the OP, I knew a gaijin who had his bank account cleaned out for not paying ward taxes. We were in the city and he went to get some money from his bank ATM but he received a message that he could not withdraw anything at the moment. That was odd but the day after he used an ATM to access his bank account and found that all his money had been taken except for around 650 yen.

I hear these stories from time to time, and have to wonder how many notices/warnings people like this have to ignore over how long a period of time before the taxman hits their bank account. There's no way they're going to do that all of a sudden, without warning. There's always that part of the story, usually involving negligence or just plain old delinquency, that the teller is reluctant to reveal.

[legion]

yeah, I paid my city tax when they told me they would take my motorbike if I didn't, you get plenty of notice

[Molokidan]

yeah, I paid my city tax when they told me they would take my motorbike if I didn't, you get plenty of notice

So, just out of curiosity, when you offered to pay, did you have to pay every single previous installment + interest? Or were you able to haggle them down/pay in installments? I've heard urban legends of gaijin women who've cried to get their payments reduced.

All these stories have been pretty interesting. The bank account drainage story is frightening, though. Although, I suppose you REALLY have to ignore a lot to get that far.

dear cop,
I always get back over 90% of my Japanese national tax through deductions. Come after me if you like, I only claim 50% of my expenses.

Are you naturally good at doing taxes, or did you consult an accountant at the start to make sure your deductions would slide through like butter? I can just imagine tax office people arguing with me or rejecting the way I split things up, much like the fellow who had to bring in a ream of paper to argue his case...

[legion]

To steal a gag from Bobby Thompson,

Tax man "You owe us xxxxx JPY"
Fucked Gaijin "Sorry, I don't recall borrowing any money from you"

I think they sent me some bills to pay in installments, it was a long time ago.

How about you tell us your tax stories, did you cry when they sent you a bill?

[Molokidan]

To steal a gag from Bobby Thompson,

Tax man "You owe us xxxxx JPY"
Fucked Gaijin "Sorry, I don't recall borrowing any money from you"

I think they sent me some bills to pay in installments, it was a long time ago.

How about you tell us your tax stories, did you cry when they sent you a bill?

Honestly, I've never received a bill for anything tax-related. But I plan on visiting an accountant this year to try and get some advice so that I can get better at deducting and hopefully earn a larger % back.

[kurogane]

Anyways, tax stories:
............................................
End of story..............................for now..........................

This sort of thing seems to be entirely dependent on the tax person you deal with. I was on a similar stipend for a couple of years, and they had no problem with it being tax exempt nor the city office with paying minimal health insurance contributions based on a 0 income.
In contrast, although not tax, I know someone who had a "expenses" only PhD studentship in Japan; when he started his first post-doc job, they demanded 4 years of back pension contributions from him as he hadn't made any tax returns during that time.

Yes, very muchly does it. This was the guy in the Kyoto ward office that just happened to be Taxman that year. I got a very strong impression that the amount I was receiving "as a student" (sic) offended his own sense of appropriate income. He was quite pleased when I mentioned I was paying my health insurance even though that was also exempt and since my income was technically zero it was the minimal contribution. Now, OTOH, a number of participants on the same programme were taxed and were unable to convince their relevant authorities that they were exempt by contract; none of them spoke a lick of Japanese and all were in Tokyo/Yokohama. The programme administration office was of no help, and I ended up giving them some internet tax advice on how to argue their case but none succeeded. I then suggested they just wait them out and pull a runner at the end of their fellowship (2-3 years) and I know the one guy I kept in touch with did just that. I was rather offended by the haphazard administration and procedures, esp. from the Ministry that recruited us but I was too far away to help in person. I also suggested they hire a tax professional but these were all Anglospherics so that fell on the deaf and dumb ears of thoose so cursed.

More barriers to importing skilled workers? (though they seem to realize how fucked that could be)

Here we go again................

It very much seems like they are considering how this will affect foreigners...and seems like many will end up being exempt?

So, IOW, a strategic attempt to lessen barriers to importing foreign skilled workers???

Like Legion wrote, they're after Japanese here. As they always are in all legislation except furriner entry/exit related ones. Hence this obvious and vocal attempt to construct a newer style No Dogs/No Chinese rule not unlike that weird idea that any of these proposed casinos simply forbid entry to all Japanese. Whch made me laugh so hard I remembered that they really can be every bit as fucked in the head as you and others claim they are.

And besides, I was just feckin' witya. But never ever forget that you don't matter. No foreigner does. The failure to understand that is why so many JETs and English teachers end up such bitter wastrels. And once you really, really accept that the love of Japan will wash over you like the crystal clear waters of a spilled containment pool rushing to the sea. Very cleansing.

[BigInJapan]

Honestly, I've never received a bill for anything tax-related. But I plan on visiting an accountant this year to try and get some advice so that I can get better at deducting and hopefully earn a larger % back.

I'm self-employed and I've had a tax accountant (税理士) do my taxes for over 10 years. For me, it's well worth it as it's hassle-free, and I get back a large chunk of the tax I've paid (which is almost like a bonus as I pay more tax than when I was a company drudge). Not sure about 90% like someone else quoted, but it's definitely up there.

[Molokidan]

Honestly, I've never received a bill for anything tax-related. But I plan on visiting an accountant this year to try and get some advice so that I can get better at deducting and hopefully earn a larger % back.

I'm self-employed and I've had a tax accountant (税理士) do my taxes for over 10 years. For me, it's well worth it as it's hassle-free, and I get back a large chunk of the tax I've paid (which is almost like a bonus as I pay more tax than when I was a company drudge). Not sure about 90% like someone else quoted, but it's definitely up there.

That's what I'm heard. So even including what you pay to the accountant, you still come out relatively unscathed?

[LUBA]

Sorry to be a little off topic, but this year is my first in filling tax forms and I don't know any fcked up tax story to tell.

I checked the gaijintax website, but those forms don't match the forms I received, only the coloured form almost matches the one I got.
Anyone knows a place where I can find more recent forms examples?

[BigInJapan]

Honestly, I've never received a bill for anything tax-related. But I plan on visiting an accountant this year to try and get some advice so that I can get better at deducting and hopefully earn a larger % back.

I'm self-employed and I've had a tax accountant (税理士) do my taxes for over 10 years. For me, it's well worth it as it's hassle-free, and I get back a large chunk of the tax I've paid (which is almost like a bonus as I pay more tax than when I was a company drudge). Not sure about 90% like someone else quoted, but it's definitely up there.

That's what I'm heard. So even including what you pay to the accountant, you still come out relatively unscathed?

Yep, haven't been scathed (yet). I claim a portion of my house for business expenses, office supplies, computer related equipment purchases, smartphone cost, vehicle gas, and a small monthly amount for "entertainment" (unrealistically high amounts will not fly), and I think I still pay the accountant just under ¥10,000.